I was going to trade my walking dead key for payday at steamtrades and the steam community forums, but when i went to the steam communitforums i came to a sticky that says you cant

http://pastebin.com/WfA8WJZ3

11 years ago*

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Edit: No, you can't, but no one cares really and it is most likely a safeguard in case someone buys a ton for reselling. I don't like seeing people trading them for a profit but am fine with giveaways.

11 years ago
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i did. it didnt say anything about trading it only said not to copy it or distrubute, and something else?

11 years ago
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It said you use them yourself. You don't do that by trading them or doing giveaways.

****loads of people don't give a damn.

11 years ago
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Yes, it says "All keys are for your personal use only.". Forgot about that.

11 years ago
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gifting is personal use.

11 years ago
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selling/trading aka distributing is not personal use

11 years ago
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and I specifically said gifting, not selling or trading.

11 years ago
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Gifting IS distributing.

11 years ago
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Distributing is giving for a LOT of people to use. Gifting is for only one lucky guy/girl to enjoy.

Gifting is definitely not distributing. But i'm still not sure if gifting is allowed...

11 years ago
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"Distribution is the process of making a product or service available for use or consumption by a consumer or business user, using direct means, or using indirect means with intermediaries."

A giveaway is the opposite of this. You are not making it "available" for consumption by a group as you are only giving away one copy. If anything, you are denying consumption to over 99% of entrants. If I gave you a can of Coke, am I now a Coke distributor?

11 years ago
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It would be making a product available for use by a customer though.

11 years ago
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That's not what distribution means. You need to be able to supply services or products to a consumer base, not to one/a few people.

If I buy you a hot dog I'm not a hot dog distributor. If I bring donuts to the office I'm not a donut distributor.

Steam can match demand and supply it's entire base with products; it is a distributor.

People on this site seem to think giving one gift turns you into a fully commercial-use distributor...

11 years ago
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I was repeating part of your quote, but okay.

11 years ago
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Are you sure?

11 years ago
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Yep.

11 years ago
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What is that based on? Not saying I doubt you but a link would be nice.

11 years ago
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If you buy any item as a gift that is a personal use.

Think about it, if I buy a book, wrap it it up and give it as a present; how is that anything but a personal use?

11 years ago
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Okay, if you select buy as gift sure you can gift it as a whole bundle, but if you buy for yourself and have a leftover key can you re-gift that?

11 years ago
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If I buy a 12 pack of pop and give you 6 of them, is that not a personal use gift?

11 years ago
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But for HBs you can keep the DRM free downloads so they might not want you to split it.

11 years ago
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People always bring up this "dual-copies" thing. I think most SG'ers like having their games on Steam. (Hence: "Steam"Gifts).

I would say 99% of gifters are giving away copies of games they likely already have on Steam or are games they have no interest in playing (and will never play the DRM-Free copy).

11 years ago
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I give away games I already own on steam, my question is if that is still against their rules.

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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But for moral reasons at least I would still like to know if it is against their rules. You think it is or isn't?

11 years ago
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Moral reasons? Humble Inc. is just a business selling games. They happen to bundle them together sometimes. If you own 1 or 2 from the bundle you think it would be morally wrong to give those copies to a friend to enjoy?

I mean, you already supported the dev by buying the game prior to the bundle, you did your part. Now you supported them again by buying the bundle. The least they could do is allow the duplicate to go to someone else who will play their game.

11 years ago
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Couldn't respond to your last post, maybe it was getting too small.

It is all just a matter of opinion I suppose. Do you think it is actually against the rules though?

11 years ago
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No it is not. The whole reason the games are "personal use only" is because you receive DRM-free versions for most of the games as well. By gifting the Steam keys, the DRM-free versions are still yours and thus you essentially duped the game(s). There is an option to purchase the complete bundle as a gift, but you are not allowed to gift the individual keys.

But of course, nobody cares to listen.

11 years ago
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and if I already have the games, that point is completely moot.

11 years ago
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I would say selling a key would be disclosing a part of the service.

11 years ago
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people sell bundle game son ebay all the time... i wouldnt since i dont have money to buy extra keys lol but still i see them on there all the time

11 years ago
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Yes, people do things against the ToS all the time, this thread is about if trading or gifting them is though.

11 years ago
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+

11 years ago
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The Service is only for sales of products or product rights (collectively, "Products") to end user customers for their personal, non-commercial use.

"personal, non-commercial use"

Giving away a gift is a personal, non-commercial use.

11 years ago
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This, and its been discussed to death here already.

11 years ago
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too late. he brought it up ;P

must forum discuss and call people hitler.

11 years ago
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Yeah, but searching seems to be harder than making a new thread.

11 years ago
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its certainly noncommercial, but does it really count as personal? besides you can't really give a steam key away when you no matter what you try will always retain the drm free version. steam and drm free are meant to be two different options to download your single copy of the game not something to be split between two people.

Not that anybody who gifts them here is necessarily playing drm free copies, just that "how would they know" so its probably meant to be included in that statement too the way humble wrote it.

11 years ago
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I count buying a product for the purpose of giving a gift as a "personal" use, yes.

As for the whole "dual-copies" thing; I think most SG'ers like having their games on Steam. (Hence: "Steam"Gifts).

I would say 99% of gifters are giving away copies of games they likely already have on Steam or are games they have no interest in playing (and will never play the DRM-Free copy).

11 years ago
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Yep, I gave away Cave Story+ because I already bought it twice(Once on Steam, Once on Wii)for example.

11 years ago
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You can buy a bundle for gifting, Humble Bundle has no problem with that and even encourages that. They're just against breaking bundles and gifting part of a bundle.

People speculate about what the TOS means because they prefer to interpret it in a permissive way, but if they asked HB they'd get the simple answer.

As others have said, HB doesn't enforce this, so if you don't care about HB's wishes you can do what you want.

11 years ago
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+1

11 years ago
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I usually give away the keys for games I already have from previous bundles or steam sales.

11 years ago
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walking dead does not have drm free copies btw.

11 years ago
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Doesn't law define personal as "shared with family and friends"? Ergo excluding trading or gifting to RANDOM people?

11 years ago
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Trading/selling would be considered commercial uses; but I didn't say anything about trading/selling.

Gifting is always a personal use. People buy gifts to give to anonymous kids at Christmas, I can buy a stranger a drink, etc. A gift is never a commercial use.

11 years ago
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Yes, gifts to family/friends are personal use. But gifting to random people isn't that clear, because it has elements of both personal and commercial use.
For example, personal gifts are based on relationships and are meant to improve them, while tons of SG gifts are just "type mail/chat and forget", which is something that happens with commercial deals (give money and forget). It's probably intent that would be important in this case.

11 years ago
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Commercial use implies Commerce (aka business). If I was a dev giving copies to promote my game, then sure, that's commercial use. If I was a website trying to get hits/fans by giving away games, that's commercial as well.

If I randomly want to give someone a game with no commercial benefit (CV is not a commercial benefit, it is a personal benefit), then the use can only be Personal.

11 years ago
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Err, could you point me to some definition of commercial benefit, because it sounds like it's something completely different then what you mean using it - for example wiki points to this great definition: commercial benefit is a concept that the board of directors [are] required to use their powers for the commercial benefit of the company and its members...

11 years ago
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Commercial benefit, as is, how it benefits the business. Just like in your example where a board's decisions must benefit the company.

So, if a business decided to give away games, it would be doing so for the benefit of the company (advertising, gaining fans, etc). This would make the giveaway Commercial use as the motive is business and not just "to be nice".

However, if you or I give away a game, we are not doing so in any Commercial or business way. We have no stake in the game or the business around it. We are doing it for Personal reasons (generosity, good standing in a community, etc).

11 years ago
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And if I'd give them away ONLY to get CV so I can join $3000 giveaways? Like those people abusing Crazy Machines?

11 years ago
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That is impossible, has humble bundle keys do not give full CV.

11 years ago
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That's still not commercial. CV is a personal benefit, not a business one.

Also, since we are clearly talking about bundles with the commercial vs personal thing, we know it's a moot point as you can't abuse bundles for massive CV.

11 years ago
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Why CV is not a commercial benefit? Not in light of bundles, but what in definition of benefits make it personal, not commercial? Just so I'd know for future.

11 years ago
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Commercial implies commerce (aka business). No one is basing their income or business on CV.

Not every reward for doing something is Commercial. If you helped a friend move and he bought you a pizza as thanks, that's a personal reward. CV works in this way; the website give you a token reward for contributing, but nothing "commercial".

11 years ago
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Outside that you don't help friend for pizza, you help him just because he's friend (which makes this example bad), I think I get what you mean.

I guess all those people writing "why no CV" or "lost CV" are the reason why it sounds closer to commercial (since they only invest in SG to be able to get more from SG)...

11 years ago
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Yes, you can trade your walking dead key on steamtrades.

You cannot trade it on steam community forums not because it being of a humble bundle, but because of it being a key. They only allow gift trades there.

11 years ago
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It is probably a violation of the Humble Indie Bundle terms of service. However, terms of service are not laws, and steamgifts doesn't have an obligation to enforce other sites' ToS, so it doesn't.

You could, in theory, get in trouble with the HiB people and they could ban you from future HiBs, but in practice they don't do that.

11 years ago
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If you're inside the EU, these TOS are irrelevant either way :P

11 years ago
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Why this?

11 years ago
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Well, at least those parts of a TOS regarding the resale. Have this link for example

11 years ago
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Yes but this implies giving away desura key/drm-free download link too as games are sold as one license for all steam/desura/drm-free.

11 years ago
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Right. Humble Bundle is 100% for gifting (or trading) complete bundles. However, the problem, and what is NOT OK, is giving away or trading Steam keys while keeping the Desura keys and/or DRM-free downloads for yourself or others.

11 years ago
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When a bundle is sold as a complete package, this means you are supposed to keep all keys and download links in the hands of the buyer or the person you gifted to. Give away one key, and the remaining keys and the bundle's download page should be turned over as well. If you claimed the download page, you are to use the keys for yourself as well.

This is how the TOS works. A bundle is a bundle. Giving one piece, however large or small, breaks the bundle and therefore the TOS.

11 years ago
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Yes, that's what I said, though in not so many words. Glad we agree.

11 years ago
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3DBBP-4PH5D-FHWA7

Fuck the rules.

11 years ago
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Nobody even said thanks for Walking Dead? O.o

11 years ago
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The way I understand it, it implies destroying all your other copies of the software, not giving them along with the one you're reselling.

11 years ago
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It implies either giving away to the same person OR destroying all the copies, the point being: there can't be two persons/households sharing the use of a single license.

11 years ago
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So yes, you can trade without worrying about nothing. There is not even a drm-free version to keep, so go ahead a trade the game if you want.

11 years ago
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Yeah it's legal also very sad to use their charity for your own gain.

11 years ago
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Lol @ Humble Inc. being a "charity". They are an incorporated, for-profit business that gives a portion of it's income to charity.

While it's nice, please stop treating them as a charity.

11 years ago
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Well, the consumer does get to choose how much of their purchase goes to the charities. That said, they are for-profit.

11 years ago
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Humble is not the IP/rights holder to any of the games they sell... they're only a middleman. Therefore, once you've paid your money and the keys have been delivered they have no say in what you do with them. Their ToS means almost nothing to the consumer and is only there to protect them from legal action. If they were somehow able to prove that you violated their ToS (virtually impossible) then the worst they could do to you is refuse to sell to you in the future (also virtually impossible).

11 years ago
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+1

11 years ago
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oh no

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by Garbener.