it's his group and it hasn't always been about these greenlight things. Besides, does it matter if Steam has more games?
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And just who makes it official that certain games are crap? Couple sayings come to mind: One man's trash is another man's treasure (not that these games are trash), and "It takes all kinds to make a world"; and when you get into administration "get rid of the crappy games!" mode, you become a nouveau riche snob with your nose stuck high in the air.
EDIT made.
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1) Group was about way more than just the Greenlight promotions.
2) Most of the games they promoted were pretty cool, actually.
3) Not all games need be AAA big budget titles with flashy graphics. Having a couple of indie titles in the mix is a good thing, and encourages and empowers fledgling devs to do greater things in their future.
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Think of it in terms of "Would I vote for this and buy a copy if I wasn't getting it for free?" and you'll start to see the difference between helping an indie dev and helping yourself.
Most of my friends readily admit that they don't care if it's crap or not and just want a free +1. That's the boat the majority are unfortunately in. I have not seen anyone on the +voting side who could explain their criteria of what they believe makes the basic standard for a quality Steam game (vs mobile/flash/Desura) and why it deserves a vote if it wasn't free. Some of them would have made it, but definitely not all of them.
Also, voting because of charity ("empowering indie devs") is highly unprincipled of you. It's a business and if their product is mediocre then you're just supporting mediocrity. You hope they'll do greater things later, but they need to do them NOW. Money is involved. If they're not ready to swim in the ocean then it's best for them to stay in the pool.
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I actually agree very much with all you're saying. Every point. I made an angry post on one of the discussion boards of Paranormal State about how you should only vote a game up - regardless of there being a free key or not - only if you genuinely see something you feel is worth money. The free key should not be seen as an incentive, but an incidental reward for support. Unfortunately, of course, you can't count on most people seeing such a promo having such a moralistic view of such things, and I agree that it's a slight bit immoral a move for a dev to do, to the detriment of other devs' fair shot at Greenlight.
On the other hand, you might see it as simply a fair business move to market and promote their game - albeit at the cost of the idea of Greenlight. As long as a dev doesn't pretend to be "a nice guy wanting to reward people!" but is being honest in their stance about it - "we put aside <x> in lost potential profit for <x> keys, we get promoted, people who are fast enough get something nice for free, everyone wins", I'm kinda ok with it.
Except that it kinda ruins the nifty idea that is Greenlight, which makes it more a grey area to me, and generally I disapprove of the way most of these things have been going. And I stick to the idea of "voting yes because I actually wanna play this and would plonk down a little cash for it, sure".
And that's why I say I agree with all your points, including the last paragraphs'. I don't vote yes for stuff I genuinely think is mediocre, either. It's just that nowadays, people's expectations have been skewed a bit more towards high production values and graphics than gameplay and core mechanics, and nice looking - just not AAA 3D graphics - stuff. That's why it's important to be a good critic, understand the design goals of a game, and have a bit of insight into who the devs are, what their potential is. If I think a game is pretty decent, but the devs are douches in some way, or I think they lack vision, or anything else I consider important for a dev to have as a quality, they still won't get my vote.
So, I get what you're saying, and I agree.
However, my original comments' points still stand :)
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We agree to agree on all of each other's points then. xD
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Totally this. WGN greenlight promotions were always good games, not crappy ones...
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Did they say anything about this as well?
Cause you still have a database full of users, e-mails and locations which might still be valuable to some people
I remember when Rockstar did its own promo for Max Payne 3 or something (can't remember now) and they gave away Midnight Club 2 to everyone who joined Rockstar's official group. You would join the group, wait a while and wake up with a copy of MC2 in your library. No e-mails, shady stuff or anything
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No, you got it wrong. WGN asked you to log in using the Steam API and provide your e-mail in the process.
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So, you can't run free contests/giveaways on Steam groups? Seems odd, I could understand if it was gambling/pay to enter, but a free contest seems harmless.
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Here's a question for you. Why would customer support lie?
The only thing that happens if they lie is that he goes, creates another group, and stops doing contests. And oh, look, the contests weren't what they cared about, so he gets shut down again. Then he asks why and they have to spend a bunch more time going back and forth with Carl before giving him another fake reason. And so on. Sounds like a great use of Valve's time and money. Meanwhile, if they just tell him the truth, he stops doing the thing they don't like and the problem is solved immediately.
Next you're going to tell me that when the police give you speeding tickets, they really mean you're driving drunk and they just don't want to tell you for some shady sinister purpose. Because that would make exactly as much sense as what you're implying here. If you want a behavior to stop, you have to say what the behavior is first. It's called common sense.
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They need to delete three quarters of the groups on it, then. They all bloody well do the "invite spam to win this" contests. :D
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Today I finally found out from Steam support why the group was disabled. It's because we were running contests on the forum (contests hosted elsewhere were fine). It wasn't because of our greenlight promotions or certain individuals.
It turns out that contests are against the TOS which I was not aware of before and I still think it's pretty unfair for us to be shut down without warning.
So what's happening now? I'm working on a new website which I'll have up as soon as I can.
I need your help though, please sign the petition (even if it's only to humor me) and spread the word. If there's any web developers about, I'd also love to hear from you too. If you think you can help in any way possible, please feel free to add me on Steam and comment on my profile if my friends list is full.
Thanks for all your messages. I really appreciate it and hopefully we can put this all behind us soon.
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