Yeah, because we are so free in the United States, right? #sarcasm
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The joke didn't go over my head. I just felt like grumping anyway. XD
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¿Y qué tipo de problema tienes? Ésta es una plataforma tan buena como otra cualquiera para dar a conocer los abusos que se están llevando a cabo por parte de la casta política. Si no te gusta el tema de mi hilo es tan fácil como que no entres, punto.
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Quizas me has malentendido. Ni me gusta, ni no me gusta, ni tengo ningun tipo de afiliacion politica (si es eso lo que piensas), me parece que el 99% de los politicos son un atajo de cabrones sinverguenzas. Lo que te intentaba decirte con otras palabras es que dudo que la mayoria de la gente de este foro (teniendo en cuenta la tematica del mismo) le importe esto de lo que hablas... Discrepo totalmente en que esta sea una buena plataforma para hablar de politica. Paz y amor.
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Es una plataforma tan buena como otra cualquiera. He creado varios hilos de discusión política como tu la llamas y se han desenvuelto medianamente bien en la mayoría de las veces. Yo rompo una lanza a favor de la comunidad de este sitio y confío en que entre todos podamos tener una discusión madura y respetuosa. Si por lo que fuera eso no es así, mala suerte, pero ya decidirá el tiempo lo que pasa con el hilo, hasta entonces yo seguiré por aquí.
Además esta plataforma presenta la ventaja de reunir a una comunidad heterogénea de todas las partes del globo, por lo que, para mí, es el sitio perfecto para este tipo de discusiones.
No he aludido en ningún momento a tu afiliación política ni nada por el estilo, sólo te he dicho que si por lo que fuere no estás cómodo con el contenido o tema del hilo o simplemente crees que éste no es su lugar es tan fácil como que lo ignores.
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For what little it's worth, it doesn't bother me. I tend to read more of your posts than most and find them informative.
But to each his own.
Tambien, contigo pan y cebolla, señores. ;)
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Thanks for your kind words. I do appreciate your interventions most of the time and even if I'm not all that rational and sometimes I get carried away I tend to keep things civic.
Also I was totally unaware you spoke Spanish. And I would like to apologize for using it on this forum.
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Please don't apologize! I speak just enough Spanish to order food and get into trouble. ;)
My wife speaks it fluently, and I can read a fair amount and understand it if I'm spoken to like a child. :)
We both grew up in Spanish-speaking areas here (Texas and South Florida) and have spent many, many days all over Mexico. One day, we hope we might be able to move there. But unfortunately, can barely travel there now with children.
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Wel, I for one don't really consider that speaking alien languages in a theoretically English-speaking forums.
And good luck in finding a way of getting to Mexico.
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A mi me interesan estos temas pero no tanto como para ir a un foro de política a buscarlos. Prefiero que los pongan aquí, que se que los voy a ver, a que los pongan en un foro de esos
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Yo aqui los veo, pero como no es un tema que no "me interesa tanto", como tu bien dices, ni los suelo leer.
Pero si me meto en un foro de política es porque precisamente me interesa el tema, y es probable que comente. Y lo más seguro que en un foro de otro tipo hubiera más y mejores respuestas. Pero en fin, con ignorarlo supongo que es suficiente por mi parte.
Why so political, MrCastiglia?
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Pretty much everywhere is heading towards fascism. If anyone knows a country that's doing well, let me know. I'd love to move.
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Well. Wouldn't North Korea be free of fascism? I mean, they being a communist country (Or Juche) and all that.
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They are totally opposite ideologies. One advocating for ultranationalism, identitarism, racism, devotion to the state and cult to a leader and reactionary. Communism, on the other hand is about abolishing the state, socializing the means of production and it's often internationalist. That depends on the currents and so on and so forth. But if I'm not mistaken they are diametrically different
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" One advocating for ultranationalism, identitarism, racism, devotion to the state and cult to a leader and reactionary. Communism, on the other hand is " ....exactly all of those things every time its been tried ever? (in addition to having even less ability to feed yourselves I mean)
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I don't understand the question Gannet, sorry. Could you rephrase it?
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sorry. basically I meant while they're quite different on paper functionally in real life they're practically identical to the best of my knowledge...that wasn't the clearest way to phrase it though
on paper communism sounds quite nice...so does fascism if you read what its actually supposed to be....its that neither of them is ever anything remotely like that. its the gap between paper having it be "freely willing" universal and instant shift and irl tending towards population purges and such. those ends of the spectrum don't seem to turn out all that stable for some reason
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Oh. Yeah, well. Many Communist regimes have not been what I would say, successful. But there's others than have (The URSS didn't do that bad, Cuba seems to handle themselves well) and I think that if we stick by Marx's definition of Communism it's never been achieved.
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Well, considering they've been under an embargo for quite a while and yet they are the sole (if not one of the very few) country with no infant undernourishment and a complete alphabetization rate. I would say so.
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Could you develop your point a bit more, please? :)
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I'm looking at it, but it doesn't look so good...
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Well from what I read from different views it's an anti-European, pro-Euro, capitalist, socialist Nazi regime. And soon™ we have Veggie Days, lower taxes, higher taxes and a illegal passenger car toll for foreigners.
And still ~42% voted CDU/CSU...
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Romania is doing well. We have people in Spain and Italy doing "skill tricks" on the streets.
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And for sure they are about to be elected. gg wp spain.
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Yo lo que quiero es mas regulaciòn ante la inmigraciòn sobretodo la ilegal que ya estoy cansado con el tema y que algunos inmigrantes no paguen impuestos y solo viven de las ayudas sociales ,En 11 años aqui con mi padre hemos pagado los impuestos siempre y nunca hemos recibido subvencion de nada(no es que nos sobre la pasta pero la verdad es que hay gente que la necesita mas)
Yo mismo soy inmigrante y no veo justo que se le quite a gente que lleva toda su vida viviendo aqui para darselo a gente que ha venido de ilegal D: y encima a veces solo vienen a eso y se van y mas importante que por culpa de esa gente se crea que tooodo el que viene de fuera lleva ese tipo de vida :s
Estamos gobernados por el PP cosas como prohibir la prositituciòn (digno trabajo siempre que sea por iniciativa propia) las veo normal pero xDD regar las plantas?Mendigar está prohibido y encima te clavan una multa de 750 euros ?LOOOL
PD:Keep calm and take a Cafè con leche in plaza mayor in the Madrid of Los Austrias xDDD
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"Así que no tienes dinero y le pides dinero a otros ciudadanos en espacio público, ¿eh? Tendremos que multarte por 700 euros..."
Me pregunto como se desenvolvería la situación en caso de que el mendigo carezca de dinero suficiente para pagar.
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En otras ciudades como Benidorm el ayuntamiento se ofrece a pagarles un bus a su lugar de origen, lo cual es, cuanto menos, ridículo.
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Agradecería si evitaras usar argumentos infundados y de base racista en este hilo.
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Yo lo que quiero es mas regulaciòn ante la inmigraciòn sobretodo la ilegal que ya estoy cansado con el tema y que algunos inmigrantes no paguen impuestos y solo viven de las ayudas sociales
Yo mismo soy inmigrante y no veo justo que se le quite a gente que lleva toda su vida viviendo aqui para darselo a gente que ha venido de ilegal D: y encima a veces solo vienen a eso y se van
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Decir que una persona que está ilegal en el país no debería tener derecho a prestaciones sociales lo convierte en un racista? Puede que su comentario acerca del motivo por el que los inmigrantes vienen sea desafortunado, que si que lo es y mucho, pero el estado de bienestar se nutre de la actividad que se genera en el país por todo aquel residente. Eso es indudable, y aunque no comparto su postura, una regularización de la inmigración podría haber ayudado hace algunos años.
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Sí. Negar prestaciones sociales y la posibilidad de tener acceso a bienes básicos y derechos universales en base a la nacionalidad de uno es ser racista.
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No mezclo nada. Sigo sosteniendo que una persona tiene derecho a beneficiarse de todos aquellos derechos. Además si no me equivoco la Constitución establece que los derechos fundamentales (excepto algunos como el de sufragio) se aplican también a immigrantes y extranjeros.
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La Constitución dice que una mujer no puede ser reina. Eres machista?
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Yo mismo soy inmigrante y lo dejo claro en el post es ridículo pensar que soy fascista o racista.......en ningun momento he dicho que se le niegue las prestaciones a nadie,esa mala fama ha hecho a muchos creer que por ser de fuera yo solo chupo del bote y no pago impuestos ni nada como hacen muchos otros.(Puede que me expresara mal en este punto lo siento mucho)
Y SI una regulación en la inmigración es necesaria te lo dice un inmigrante,que en Suramerica y Africa las mafias que traen ilegales siguen vendiendo España como lo mejor del mundo y el pais sin crisis (aprovechandose de la pobre gente)no es racismo que esa chorrada debio haber muerto hace mucho,aunque admito que en cierto modo me cabre, tu no sabes lo que cuesta obtenerlo todo por la via legal y los gastos y el sacrificio que se hace...(y no te hablo de la epoca ZP regala ciudadania a todos) te hablo de hace mucho mas tiempo cuando te pedian mil y una mierda sólo para poder pisar España.
PD:y NO no todos los inmigrantes vienen a vivir de las ayudas sociales,pero algunos si y lo hacen descarademente,tengo un vecino Ecuatoriano que no podia mantenerse el mismo pero sin embargo trajo a su mujer y 4 hijos todo por que el gobierno le daba subvenciòn......es lo que nunca entendi :/ si no puedes mantenerte a ti mismo..para que traer 4 personas mas ._.?
PD2: Vale ya he pilado
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The EU seems to live increasingly well with fascism and fascist-like tendencies... just as long as money keeps rolling in at the Deustchebank headquarters. There's a de facto fascist state on the making in Hungary, but what's important is to make poorer countries poorer still.
Here in Portugal, things are looking grim too. The public school system, for example, is looking more and more like the pre-revolution one that gave us the very dubious honor of being one of the less alphabetized countries in Europe. And, to add to it, we managed to elect one of the sorriest excuses for a prime-minister you could get.
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Well, you have a Neonazi party well represented and supporting most of the actions of your goverment, a government that has no qualms with editing your constitution to bolster its own power and anti-semitic propaganda seems to be a daily thing to you. You may be fine with all of that: some of us in the rest of the world do not like it.
Also, your claim that it is a (global) media conspiracy just smells wrong: it is exactly the kind of thing that is said to justify ideological "editing" of media by the government.
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It's called Corporate Fascism and it is spreading everywhere. The people get fascism and the corporations get whatever they want. I like business, but fair business that help people, not what we have now.
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I'm sorry to say that's where things are headed all over southern Europe MrC. When people are constantly being denied access to basic human rights due to the economic crisis, they have very little time or energy to protest the absurd. I'm afraid it's going to get worse before it gets better.
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The thing is that people are denied acess to basic necessities and yet the amount of MILLIONAIRES has grown in a 13% in the last 2 years or so. However more than 3 million people live under the poverty treeshold.
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Soy yo o Ana Botella esta chocheando? A ver si la quitan del cargo que no hace mas que dar verguenza ajena la muy inutil
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Governments literally never work for the people in general. They work for the elite. Shit is to be expected from them all sadly.
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Uh...I'll have to respectfully disagree here. Governments are far from perfect, but a properly functioning government often works for the people. Especially rule of law with juries of peers.
I'm not arguing that the elite don't always find ways to work the system to their favor, but your first sentence is pretty strongly absolute and probably a little hyperbolic.
Without government, things would be far uglier in most places, and most people would have far fewer rights/privileges than they do.
Once again, I'm not arguing that people shouldn't hold their governments accountable and that there aren't serious issues in certain places or at certain times (the OP as example).
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I agree with EephusSwift on this matter: governments are not perfect in the least, but they're (usually, and only if they are the product of an at least mostly healthy democracy, of course) leaps and bounds more likely to work towards the interests of most people than any other alternative.
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Don't forget the role of the media in all this. Owned by the privileged, imposing their values and convincing people to vote against their own benefit.
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And don't forget that big corporations control the media.
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Some media. One of my pet peeves (in this country, anyway) is those that lump "media" into one bucket.
The choice of which media to consume here is still very much free. And those who seek out informed, alternative opinion, or even multiple mainstream opinions (including those they may disagree with) are vastly more educated.
There are, right now, in the U.S. several high-profile journalists that are fighting for the citizenry, and sometimes risking their careers to do so.
That still happens. Comments about media with broad brushes aren't fully accurate.
Search and you will find.
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Voting in the U.S is nothing more than a move from our handlers to let us feel like we're in control. Our votes never count. Electoral votes, catering to predetermined winners are what count. It's sad that a handful of people run the entire world. The only way they can ever be stopped is by death.
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Lobbys more often than not pressure goverments in order for them to take courses of action that benefits them.
Also there are several political currents that state that a society can perfectly work without (or with a minimal amount of) state such Anarchism or Libertarianism
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Yes. And much like early communism, they should be watched with both eyes as ideal types that are not possible in implementation, and whose advocates and proselytizers should not be trusted for long without oversight as if we want to see tyranny, they could easily become fast tracks to it.
Note that I'm not advocating that the ideas are bad, but that wholesale belief in them as infallible or as inherently better than what we have would be a grave mistake.
I can't speak to anarchism, but I know enough about logical extrapolations of libertarianism to know that the peoples' best interest are not always at heart or in mind there, despite rhetoric otherwise.
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I'm not really a fan of Libertarianism either I only wanted to remark that there are currents that believe on the possibility of organitating a society without being dependent from a State.
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Isn't it that robbery involving less than 4000 euro is not a crime in Spain?
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Nope. Robbing something with a value less than 400 euros, without the use of intimidation or violence, is considered a lesser offence, though.
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THAT should be a law in every country :3
Edit: of course not exclusive for cigarette butts. IMHO all forms of littering are unnecessary and should have a sensible fine.
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+1
Fuck you littering assholes making my place of living look like ass.
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thats just unamerican. I bet youre some kind of Canadian aren't you! Canadian!(i know you're not)
if you take away the litter how will the homeless keep warm? :(
thats the problem with canada. never thinking of the little guy or the big picture.
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I had a coworker who was complaining about how people were littering the streets, then throwing her cigarette butts on the pavement without a second thought.
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Well, in Hungary you can be sent to jail if you are homeless, so...
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I'm still waiting for someone to point out the differences between fascism and totalitarianism....
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That's basically it. Fascist regimes have some or all of those charactheriscs. The thing is, there's also totalitarian regimes that are communists or theological. Fascist regimes are capitalist and very nationalistic (although there's probably a lot of other stuff that diferentiate them from other totalitarian regimes).
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its sort of a "industry for the country" thing. every citizen has their own private property which the government doesn't interfere with...as long as they put it to use for the best of the country(if not it goes to somebody who will) I think
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I'm spanish too. I really would like to have a normal life outside with a proper job.
I'm fucking upset of Spain already. You know, that "awesome" country for tourism, but you know, no job, no money, no food, no nothing. This is Spain nowadays.
Politics are all corrupted, all the money for them, all the money for the king and queen (no more nedeed to be honest).
While people who helped (since decades and decades) to raise the whole country up, all poors, without home, without jobs, without helps, retirement funds, commiting suicide for this cause. Privatizing everything. No rights or funds for hospital public institutions, public education. And still they have the face to spread only good stuff to outside. "Everything going nice" and derivatives. Sure, going so nice for them. -__-
In a couple of months i will be living in streets if nothing comes, a job, a chance. That's my situation and my girlfriend.
I hope to escape from this country someday with some help. I would like to live in another country, UK for example and get a job to survive, any job it would make me happy.
But no money to go outside and start a new life.
As someone said here, facism is capitalism in decay. Truly agree.
Have a nice day and sorry for the rant.
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The solution is not running away, is fighting for your rights.
Ps: If you want to be lucky outside of Spain you have to, at least, finish your degree and have a upper-average cv. Because if you don't, you'll end working for the tips as a waitres, doing abroad what you don't want to do here.
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You tip if the service has been really good (generous amounts) or something simbolic as a symbol of courtesy.
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ah, good then. Cause we basically just went to the nearest round number because americans are conditioned to tip and our uncle told us it'd offend the waiters to tip(for some odd reason (he never did manage to explain how he came to that conclusion)) so and we split the difference.
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I don't have any problem working as waitres, the problem here in Spain, specifically in Malaga, is just the huge unemployment.
I don't have any problem as far as i have any job and from that, to get a proper life.
I can't fight for my rights if the people are all splitted.
I would like to though, but it's impossible here, people are a bit slept. So no chance for that neither.
Have a nice day.
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I don't think you need to be highly qualified in order to get a job outside of Spain. I, for one, only demand one thing, being paid according to what my position and my responsabilities are. Nothing more.
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and theres less corruption or any of the rest of that in communism for example?(because that decay quote was lenin)
but yeah +1 on the whole "europe sucks balls" thing. unfortunately theres not much else for you to go to. America is trying their damnedest(not obama, just in general) to become europe anyway and the rest of the world is far worse than europe is so they're running there (in little boats that keep catching fire and sinking for basically no reason). so where were you going to be running to exactly?
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Yo no voy a entrar a debatir acerca de ideologías políticas, ni de las ganas que tengo de que hay un cambio en España. Pero si que voy a comentar que, aunque me paece correcto que compartas tus ideas e inquietudes, lo hagas de una forma parcial. Y expliques que el tema de regar las plantas, etc., es para aquellas que den a la vía pública, y que debido a su riego ensucien la calle.
El personajazo de Ana Botella es un ser lamentable, cierto, al igual que Manuel Chaves, Griñán, Zapatero, Rato, Artur Más, Camps, etc. Pero decir que España se acerca a un régimen fascista es como decir en voz alta: "Hey, no tengo ni puta idea de qué es el Fascismo". Ojalá en la actualidad ningún país tuviese que sufrir lo que es un régimen Comunista ni uno Fascista.
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Or cierto, usar a The huffington Post de fuente es como decir que "The Sun" tiene una entrevista en primicia con el novel de física. LOL
Hasta el Independent habla mejor de la reforma y especifica cosas, como la contratación de putas cerca de escuelas, que los musicos callejeros tienen que solicitar una licencia, etc. Como de echo ocurre en otras ciudades Europeas.
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Es una fuente tan buena como otra cualquiera. Si quieres te pego las de alertadigital u otras si ese enfoque es más de tu agrado.
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Tengo bastante claro de que hablo. Si vas a basar tu argumentación en algo más que poner en duda mi juicio mediante el uso de falacias lo agradecería.
Y si nombré esa fuente es precisamente porque también leí allí la noticia.
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Has insuado en varias ocasiones mi desconocimiento del tema sin aportar nada más que ataques vacíos y has aludido a la edad, o mi falta de ella.
Estoy esperando que me respondas a lo de Cuba, por cierto.
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MrC Tengo prácticas de la uni que entregar mañana, así que hasta el miércoles que pasaré por mi casa no creo que pueda contestarte. Dejamos esto en Stand-by ;)
PD: No son ataques vacíos, tu los interpretas así, mientreas que aquí llegas incluso a aceptar que puede que no sea lo que piensas.
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Perfect, y espero no haber sido demasiado agresivo. A veces me dejo llevar.
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rajoy, montoro y cía no son personajes lamentables?
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So the city of Madrid (If you don't recall it reciently ran for the 2020 Olympic games for like the zillionth time in a row and miserably failing again) whose major is this educated lady is trying to pass a law prohibiting things ranging from juggling or watering the plants to prostitution and drug dealer.
Some of the infractions that this legislation will punish include also panhandling (From 750€ fine on) juggling, practicing skill tricks, skateboarding or feeding animals in the street (Up to 750€ fine) also things like watering the plants, shaking carpets or using benches for (sic) other than sitting will be fined too with quantities around the 750€ mark.
Also they have sneaked a couple of rules against demonstrating on the street and long-lasting protest, which could be fined too. This is an smart move on their part considering that the 15M movement could have presented a menace to their ruling and abuses or that it could be used to silent the demonstrations coming from doctors and other health profressionals in order to defend Public and Universal Healthcare.
So I simply wanted to post this so that you people can see what a Olympic Games candidate is doing behind the scenes. Also I find kinda hilarious that all this regulations are going to be enforced while they very same major is looking for loopholes in order to allow the construction of the so called Eurovegas and is figuratively licking its promoter's ass and taking their trouusers down.
Anyways, sources.
English
Spanish
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