I don't know, I know GATT hasn't had the whitest track record, but the fact that this one developer is the only one they had outstanding problems with makes me think it is something on Biart's end that is causing the problem. If GATT was bullying, threatening, or whatever then you have to ask yourself A) If they are doing it to everyone, why is it that Biart is the only company that is fighting back or B) Why are they only targeting Biart if Biart didn't do anything to aggravate whatever it you think GATT might have done.
I am somewhat generalizing here, as I (and everyone else besides GATT and Biart) don't have all the details, but based on the evidence (the contract and the e-mail assuming they are legit--and I don't know why they'd post a fake contract when many other devs can attest to it's existence) I definitely think that Biart was NOT acting very diplomatic EVEN IF GATT had done something to initiate the problems. If GATT gave them problems they should have talked to their lawyers, not tell GATT to give them money in all caps, curse, and threaten to go to the press.
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This is just GATT's side of the story. There could be another missing piece which Biart could provide something along the line of maybe GATT threatening them non payment if they didn't pull out of Groupees etc.
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"TWO websites developed at normal developer rates of $40 an hour for two weeks and beyond...."
anyone else remember that website they had?... was 0 java/flash.. all of the menus lead to the same end less page, something an elementary school student could make on a rainy afternoon with the computers now a days. haven't you see those commercials?! lol
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The latter half seems to be there not just to vent, but to defang some of Biart7's alleged threats.
The first half mostly seems to be admitting that IFK was poorly planned and poorly run.
The non Biart7 double dip complaints seem a bit grousy (particularly when it sounds like IFK was falling apart even without developers putting their games in other bundles), but it is presumably there (in addition to grousing) as background history for the no-compete contract that Biart7 signed and broke.
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anyone remember the original reason they started doing bundles, and the reason from that one guy who did a full article on them about advertising for illegal keysites, plus more? its a real question, i cant remember exactly, i remember not being super happy with GATT afterwards though.
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If they hadn't misjudged the price of their initial bundle so badly, they'd probably have sold a lot more copies, and generated a lot more interest in their bundle.
As others have said, it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story. Talk about honouring contracts "to some extent" hardly inspires confidence. It sounds as though there was more than one party who didn't stick to what was agreed...
IFK seems like an ill conceived "me too" attempt to jump on a bandwagon which was already overcrowded. In some ways it's a shame to see this happen, as Groupees had some major teething troubles early on, but have learnt from these, and managed to establish their product in the marketplace. In other ways, it's hard to get too upset about seeing the back of a shady firm (illegal keysites? Come on...) who, right from the outset, never appeared to have the faintest clue what they were doing.
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Personally I didn't rate the games, but that's a matter of opinion :)
To pitch their debut offering at $10 was a mistake though, since the standard bundle price point at that stage was $4/$5. Humble had put out some tremendous bundles, and in order to get a foothold, and generate some serious sales in a competitive marketplace, around the five dollar mark was where it needed to be priced. While there were always going to be a segment of customers who would buy at the ten dollar level, the established bundlers had already eroded the value of indie bundles to the point where many people just weren't prepared to accept this price. Sad, but true, as borne out by the miserable sales figures.
For ten dollars, particularly in a Steam sale, you can get huge bang for your ten bucks. You could buy any two [non-Android] Humble Bundles and get a collection of games which would crush the IFK offerings into the tarmac, then reverse over them for good measure. For me (and many others), the bundle just wasn't worth it. As for the follow-up bundles, I agree with you wholeheartedly. "Lame" doesn't even begin to cover it...
Couple that with shady marketing, fake giveaway announcements to entice people into their Steam group chat, a website that, in the early stages, looked as though it had been designed by a chimpanzee with learning difficulties, and other general ballbaggery, it's not hard to see why this venture was as successful as North Korean rocket launch...
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"Talk about honouring contracts "to some extent" hardly inspires confidence. It sounds as though there was more than one party who didn't stick to what was agreed..."
Isn't that the whole point of a contract? If one party doesn't live up to it, then the other party isn't obligated to honor it at all either?
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Totally agree. Having re-read the article, I'm still unsure of the timeline though.
My initial interpretation was that GATT were not going to be able to fulfil their financial obligations, but would try to honour the contract "to some extent". Re-reading the article, I'm not sure whether or not that is correct, but I'm still confused as to the sequence of events.
With GATT not being able to pay the other developers per the contract (they had already entered into payment arrangements with some), did Biart panic? In the light of GATT's problems, did they try to sell the game to another bundler (in clear breach of the contract, although in all likelihood the contract would not be fulfilled by a cash strapped GATT) to reduce the impact, or was the deal made before they learnt of GATT's financial crisis (due to a misunderstanding of the contract, or simple greed)?
Threatening to withdraw keys sucks. Was it an clever piece of brinkmanship (which clearly had the desired effect, in that it motivated GATT to try and resolve the issue), or simply a nasty threat from a nasty organisation? Who can say?
There have clearly been mistakes on both sides - big ones - but it's difficult to work out exactly what went down between GATT and Biart without hearing the other party's version of events.
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Well my main point for posting that is to show how GATT twisted the story last time, and lied/slandered the author of that article. So I don't really trust anything they say unless it's verified by a third party. I'm sure more will come out about this though, so we shall see.
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Yeah I agree (hence the "assuming everything is legit") Although in this case I find it hard to believe Biart is totally innocent, even if GATT was the one that initiated the trouble, the way Biart responded via the supplied email (and I find it highly unlikely GATT would whip up a fake email) was very unbecoming of a developer.
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Perhaps ambiguity was his breach? A foreigner might interpret the clause as "We won't put your game into another bundle, no worries!" since it didn't specify Biart's name in the beginning of the sentence...
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Given the way Biart was responding, his ambiguity quickly developed into something more serious (blackmailing, bullying etc.). But maybe you're right and he really didn't understand what he was signing (his fault anyways) and Indie Kick was exaggerating his responses.
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I'm not defending Biart at all, by the way. But ambiguity is a dangerous thing in the field of law. So it just might be the reason they weren't able to sue him, besides other issues such as the country difference and how much it actually costs (financially and time-wise) to sue someone. Sometimes it's less of a headache to just comply.
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I never assumed your were defending him. You've done a good job at remaining impartial actually :P I did consider the amount of time and money it would take to sue someone. But if it was a simple breach of contract, I don't see why they wouldn't try. Obviously there's more to it, and that's why I'm not taking sides anymore haha.
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The only rock solid reason that I can think of is that there was a degree of fault on both sides. It is being presented by GATT, in their article, as an open and shut "breach of contract" case. If so, why didn't they sue? If things really were that straightforward, there would no doubt be a lengthy queue of "no win, no fee" lawyers eager to take on the case.... Perhaps (and I'm not saying this is what happened), GATT hadn't been able to pay Biart per the contract, and for that reason, Biart chose not to uphold their end of the contract either.
That Biart7 seems like a nasty piece of work if this version of the story is factually correct. Having said that, right from the outset, GATT were so far out of their depth that there was only ever one possible outcome - a monumental clusterfuck where everyone involved went home with the financial equivalent of knob-rot...
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I know everyone in the USA is sue happy, but it's not that easy considering Biart7 was in another country. Then you have to decide if it's even worth it after lawyer and court fees, would you even make any money back or simply make an example out of him? The biggest question would be, would you even win the court case? We've seen over the past year that even when something is blatantly wrong, all it takes is a judge who doesn't know what the case is about to make the wrong ruling.
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I hear what you're saying, but given the eagerness with which GATT's PR manager threatened to sue a small-time blogger for bringing up the disreputable keysites advertised on the GATT website, it would surprise me if GATT wouldn't sue their own grandmothers if they thought it would get them more chocolate hobnobs next time they came to visit...
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I would assume it was more of a "piss off" tactic as a "small-time blogger" wouldn't be able to afford a court battle with a company and would be forced to agree to whatever terms are drawn out. With GATT's financial situation, they likely weren't able to afford legal action against him or realized they wouldn't break even after lawyer fees.
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I recognise that it was an attempt to bully the blogger into submission, but there doesn't appear to have been any such attempt to threaten Biart, despite the alleged breach of contract. In fact, the threats were all going in the opposite direction. While the timeline is unclear, on the balance of the evidence, I'd guess that IFK were having difficulties paying up before Biart decided to break their side of the bargain and climb into bed with Groupees.
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Well Sad, but that's business.. and one less bundle on my watchlist.
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Nah, they all start out small.
It just becomes more apparent when they go AAA.
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Fucking finally. I hope they do not ever do any bundle again, seems to be run by a bunch of childs. I love how he presents only one side of the story.
Also, they did not even fucking payed the developer. Yet they are all "hurr durr" because of a breach of contract.
So yep, not a sad story at all. Its quite a fitting end, really.
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They did not pay the developer due to the developer breaching the contract. You don't just write up contracts to have people sign them and then go against them. The Turba developers breached their contract as well which is why they (Turba developers) decided to give them keys for free.
IFK wasn't the one at fault when it's the developers breaching the contracts.
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Its still pretty much of a jackass move giving away those keys for their own promotion and advertising.
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someone send that account to cg this is unfair that gets into most giveaways like that
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Isn't this the scam bundle one? Was called out on it when it started for ****ing around a lot?
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Oh, guess what, Biart7 just posted this on facebook:
Official note to IFK Bundle users, who bought this bundle in May-June 2012.
As we haven't got the payment from the bundle owner since this summer and they are not ready to pay, we decided to shutdown our DRM servers for IFK bundle owners in 3 weeks.
What should you do now?
1) Ask for a refund from IFK.
2) Get a Depth Hunter free key by writing to info@biart7.com. You will have to provide your old key first.
3) Get a bonus from us - you will have a discount for Depth Hunter 2, when it is released.
Sorry for any inconvenience caused. We appreciate it that you have chosen our game and don't want to deprive you of access to it.
Even though we got nothing for it from IFK Bundle. So our team decided to give you a free access to the game and remind you that we're working on the second part of the game, which is going to be a hit! And we are going to release a free remake of the first part soon, too! For Windows 8 and touch devices.
Please join our Facebook page to know what's new!
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That doesn't sound like the same story, or the same bunch of unreasaonable bastards as the ones in the GATT article...
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Or they're trying to shine a much brighter light on themselves by simple victimisation (hurr durr we never received any moneys for our games but hurr durr we're so generous we'll give you this shitty game and even throw in a discount for it's shitty sequel!).
Truth to be told, I don't think any of the sides are really coming out with it all. Only God and them knows what really happened and who did what so it's kinda unfair for us to take any sides.
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Well, none of the other developers received all of the money they were promised from GATT either.
Mistakes on both sides, but what is crystal clear here is that GATT had all the professionalism of a traffic light squeegie squad, and a similar level of financial clout...
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This reeks of a publicity stunt.
"We are revoking the keys, but, show us one of them and get a new one free .... OH YA, and by the way, we are going to be releasing an all new title, here is a coupon, please buy it."
It looks to me as a simple way for them to get the email of every person interested in their game from IFK while telling IFK to fu#$ off at the same time. I think its obvious the main goal was self promotion.
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So they had one run on sentence actually referring to the situation, how informative. Biart also deleted every comment on Depth Hunter's greenlight page rather than answer / respond to the accusations lodged against him by individual users (my own included). As far as I'm concerned now both parties suck :|
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"As far as I'm concerned now both parties suck :|"
+1
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Read the full story on reddit including comments from his former boss.
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I liked IFK's first bundle but I wasn't able to buy it (and thus recommended that they carry alternative means of accepting funds from what they had) and they gave me a complimentary copy. When the second bundle came out, I bought that out of thanks. However, after that, their bundles got really weak. I didn't expect them to go under so quickly.
As for the company Biart, I am boycotting them and I suggest everyone else follows suit and does the same.
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I bought their first 2 bundles and I was happy with them. IFK also had good customer support - they helped me out when paypal charged money from my card but didn't give me any confirmation.
It's sad to see them go.
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This bundle sucked but hey, they got shut down because of an A--Hole :(
edit: sorry if this has been posted already...
edit 2: seems that this person who ran it isn't as innocent as he appears to be...
Other Links -
Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
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