ill consider red dead, i played almost all of the gta´s except for maybe the episodes thingies
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i already got skyrim and just cause 2, i dont think i can run farcry 3
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I beg to differ. While obviously dated in graphics, Morrowind's general gameplay gave a stronger sandbox feel than Oblivion.
First and foremost, in Morrowind nobody in the world was immune to a good ol' dagger to the kidney (not even the "invincible" final boss, technically). And even if you killed a critical main quest NPC, there was still a way to legitimately complete the story as long one specific NPC remained alive (even then, it could still be done, but it was a race against very little time at the end). To me, this one point makes or breaks a sandbox.
Next, Morrowind had absolutely no character path development enforcement. Oblivion required ALL players to be proficient in some magical skills and have decent magical stats. Why? Forced Mage's Guild entry for spellcrafting and enchanting. Unless, of course, you don't care about making custom equipment and spells. And on that very subject, at the same time Oblivion condensed some (minor but logical when separate) skills, it also brought heavy restrictions to both spellcrafting and enchanting, presumably to make the new "infinite leveled lists" for items, spells and powers, and sigil stones more viable (which ended up with spells requiring more magicka than a player could ever gain, like Finger of the Mountain at high gain level costing over 1000, and sigil stone weapons that could only fire once per charge).
My final point is open world. Short of the Tribunal expansion, none of the cities in Morrowind were completely interior cells. I exclude Vivec City as the city itself is equally both exterior cells and interior cells. You can Levitate to and through any city in the game without having to once hit an interior cell door. Ever wonder why Levitate isn't in stock Oblivion? Some major cities, most notably the Capital, are entirely interior cells. the Oblivion Construction Set actually has Levitate as a spell and it can be activated, but if you levitate over a Capital wall you hit an invisible wall. Openness and classic feature sacrificed for performance or laziness? You decide.
Now, this is all compared to Oblivion. I've yet to play Skyrim. Why? I don't feel it's an RPG. Action-Adventure with RPG elements, yes, but so is every game in the past 10 years. Removal of the stat system and replacement with a tiered/pathed perk system? Seems less innovation and more hand holding (in fact, the original design concept was specifically mentioned to not be geared toward existing fans). Kind of reminds me of the "innovations" (read: simplification) in D&D4E.
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Thanks. I enjoyed reading this detailed comparison. My only experience with Elder Scrolls is Morrowind on Xbox ages ago. (Wait, was it Morrowind?) I've wanted to pick up one of these again but have been putting it off because 1) I have a backlog and can wait, and 2) I'm just not sure which to select. But everyone has a strong preference on which is the best, it's always helpful for commentary such as yours.
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So your problem with Oblivion is less realism, dumbed down magic, and the separation of cities from the main game world? While I like the idea of realistic weapons, it doesn't make for much of a challenge. As for magic, I was never forced to use any. I always had a choice about my character development and was never pushed in a certain direction, it was very open :S
The ability to use ultra powerful spells that require low magicka would provide less of a challenge. Freedom to gain proficiency in these spells is a good thing but still needs to be controlled so that the player doesn't break the element of challenge. As an RPG fan you must understand that balance is important so things aren't too easy.
And finally the "levitation" which I still don't quite understand but I'll assume it's a legal form of noclip. Would I be accurate in saying that the cities in Oblivion are larger and more detailed than the cities in Morrowind? Or that the Morrowind game world is smaller than Cyrodil? I'm sure there were reasonable reasons why Obsidian kept cities in interior cells. Performance or for the sake of adding more to the environments. They don't strike me as a lazy studio.
I'm not a hardcore RPG player, but I've played my fair share and understand that Oblivion and Skyrim are marvelous games. The only thing that seems to have upset you is the fact that they aren't Morrowind which is understandable but not realistic. The games have to take new directions whilst still retaining as much of the Elder Scrolls atmosphere as possible. Inevitably old things will be taken out and new things will be "tried out".
I respect your opinion though and thanks for your response.
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To say magic was overpowered in Morrowend is inaccurate. You still had to work to get your powerful spells. Spellcrafting cost gold, and new spells were still tied to skill/stat level. Rather than the game saying "you're not skilled enough to cast this", you would have spell failure, loss of magicka and no cast spell, in proportion to how off the skill target you were. This cascaded in the fact that you now have less available magicka but that stupid cliff racer is STILL pecking your head without a scratch on it. If you could reliably cast your uber spell, you were skilled enough/had a high enough primary stat to cast it and had earned it. And powerful spells never had low magicka; my point on casting cost was that the new leveled list system in Oblivion, while conceptually sound, was inherently flawed and caused impossible spells to happen (again, perfect example was the freeform quest reward Finger of the Mountain that, when earned at mid to high levels, could NEVER be cast due to cost), and it felt like the nerfing of spellcraft was an idea to help bring the new leveled list system that they trumpeted and hyped so much during development to the player. This all also applies to enchanting; if you had the skill to obtain what was necessary to craft uber gear (high quality base item + grand soul gem w/ ascended sleeper or golden saint soul), you earned that gear. Even with that, most crafted gear couldn't compare to loot in then end, but had far more options for personalization in that you had a pool of points to work with when choosing effects, compared to Oblivion's "pick a spell and we choose all of the parameters for you" system.
As for the interior cells for major cities, let me first comment that the levitation example was used simply for validation and (in the case of those curious enough to tinker) confirmation. The capital in Oblivion was no more detailed than any city in Morrowind. Thinking about it, barring the graphical engine differences, I'd say most city detail was even between the two games (though I have to admit, the spot in the Oblivion capital where you could just watch a hand to hand brawl and get a one-time skill up in hand to hand was a nice touch; all my years of modding both Morrowind and Oblivion and I never would have thought about that until I found it referenced in a scripting discussion). My point was that building some cities out of interior cells broke some of the open world continuity with a potentially arbitrary door, and in doing so disabled a (minor) feature fans had come to expect (actually, there was a pretty big stink about lack of levitate when Oblivion launched).
As for the laziness comment, I still hold to it. To this day when I play an unmodded game of Oblivion (I have "naked" installs of both Oblivion and Morrowind to occasionally remind myself of what all the mods came from), I find far too many rocks, trees, plants, and in a couple cases buildings, floating an inch off the ground for a polished game. Weynon(sp?) Priory still has a damaged specular lighting layer that causes some computers to crash simply by getting close to the front arch (this was eventually fixed by a fan patch, not an official patch). I think Shadowmere and the Unicorn still occasionally go on a killing spree in the capital if they respawn there (unlikely with the Unicorn considering it's SUPPOSED to respawn in the grove, but it happens). Quest based corpses and containers still vanish or do not populate items if interacted with before the quest (example: the apprentice in the well for the Mage Guild line; I was actually scripting a patch for this when another fan patch beat me to it). And honestly, I'm going to classify the "persuasion mini-game" a bug, because no sane developer could honestly consider that proper.
And apparently you have 3 uncles, 4 aunts, a brother, your brother's dog, and a mage guild buddy who all sent the same courier that would know the exact moment you stepped out of the sewer pipe to tell you that you've inherited three houses, horse armor is being sold, various legendary weapons are in this exact noted spot, and some thieves broke a powerful magic artifact heavily guarded by the Mage Guild, took the worthless pieces, scattered to the four winds, and can be found in the following exact locations. Also, magic compass with "golden path" quest markers and unlimited fast travel (Link's flute from back in the day, much?). Morrowind had no such hand holding. The micro-mods (which were free, not $3 a pop), you had to find yourself. The Tribunal expansion started sending assassins to kill you in your sleep and it was up to you to actually find out what's going on, with nothing more (or suffer more assassins). Bloodmoon added new topics and rumors to NPCs, but it was up to you to find them, or not and just swim to the island with no prompting. Oblivion's DLC implementation was, for the most part, lazy and monetarily exploitative (barring Shivering Isles, as that expansion was one of the best expansions in gaming history).
Personally, the only thing Oblivion brought to the table over Morrowind was the skill mastery bonuses, giving you a little more of a feeling of accomplishment as you hit higher skill levels. It's a shame the Alchemy bonus was cut from the stock game, but that was an easy fix.
Don't misunderstand me. I like Oblivion. It's a good game. And I don't judge on general preference (for the record, I watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic with one eye, The Boondocks with the other; I play Doom 3 one day, Lost Odyssey the next). But it all boils down to opinion. I don't dislike Oblivion because it's "not Morrowind" and I find that straw man argument insulting. I just find that Oblivion is inferior to Morrowind, but still viable. Skyrim on the other hand... Just as I assume by some of your comments that you've never played - or at least never thoroughly played - Morrowind, I reaffirm that I haven't played Skyrim. I can't give a completely unbiased opinion. You are right that games need to change to grow. However, I can hold that a drastic play change should not have been given a main line, numbered title (TES1:Arena, TES2:DAggerfall, TES3:Morrowind, TES4:Oblivion, etc.), but could've still been in the world (think TESA:Redguard). If a system is solid, slow innovation can be less alienating than sudden change while still being viable as long as it holds other key factors from previous games in the franchise. That being said, having not played Skyrim, I cannot yet comment on that completely (those factors being, in my opinion, story, game world, and music when it comes to any TES title).
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I can also bring up Daggerfall's over-sized map, easily among the largest still around today, it's quest system, the guild progression, and being able to break down doors and walls. Much more freeform than Morrowind, though I prefer it to Daggerfall for the somewhat easier to use controls, and infinitely more free-roam than Skyrim, which has made so many sacrifices for Consoles that you have to look at it upside-down through a fisheye lens while squinting to see it as a PC game.
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I'd say Far Cry 3 is the weakest out of those but it's still a great game. The RPG character development is just an illusion but it's an illusion I can live with because the DX11 graphics engine is really the showcase feature. The enemy and animal AI are pretty weak, especially the animals. Predators like tigers don't act like that in the wild... wandering up into crowded settlements in broad daylight and mauling someone while 5 guys shoot it with AKs. It looks great but the illusion of a tropical paradise frequently breaks when you see stuff like that happening literally every 5 minutes.
Just Cause 2 is badass for the stunts, hijacking, explosions, and of course the DX10 graphics engine. It doesn't try to take itself too seriously. It is pure fun and action, all the time.
Skyrim is awesome but you are either into RPG games or you aren't. If you're not then of course you won't like it, but that doesn't make it overrated.
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I was quite disappointed in certain animal behaviour too. Tigers and other terrestrial creatures maliciously attacked me regardless and were always found in well populated areas :S The biggest disappointment were the saltwater crocodiles. They literally just sat in one tiny area of rivers and only attacked you if you bumped into them. I was hoping to see them swimming and chasing me under the water.
Anyways, although Far Cry 3 had the illusion of an RPG, it still had a great story that I became very interested in. And this kind of made up for the basic level progression.
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Do you really like Just Cause 2?
It's quite flawed and pointless at most of the times. It's still better than the original one though.
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crysis, midnight club, test drive unlimited 2 if you like free roaming with multiplayer its a good game
Edit: Crysis is not free roam but it has very large levels so your not confind as much as CoD
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not that much interested in racing games, axcept maybe need for speed :D. iunno about crysis, my computer cant run brink or tribes ascend, iunno if my computer cant even handle the intro of crysis
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MC3 was one of the most polished racing games ever made.
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anyways good setting for crysis 1 is low quality except for textures, shaders, water, shadows, sound, and physics set those to medium. Not buying crysis because the steam version is 32 bit and crysis ramps up my graphics card's fan. Runs fine on my 9800 gt except when theres large draw distances. Id highly reccomend getting the demo from nvidia's website so its a safe download
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i already got terraria and minecraft, ill check terran conflict
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iunno if i can run it in the first place,plus i heard tome bad things about that game.
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From who? I've never met a single person who disliked that game or even considered it anything less than great.
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Hello, nice to meet you, I think SR3 is awful and it's in the top list of purchases I regret.
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The silliness of the game. I don't find it funny, just retarded.
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I got it a while ago, didnt expect much but once I play it, I LOVE it! Its a great game.. Dunno why some ppl dont like it!!!
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i go to see angry joe reviews, lets say he didint went easy with the game
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he has trashed some games i like too, like brink.
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Brink is completely awful in my opinion.
And you should give SR3 a go, I was skeptical with it too, but it's one of the games I've enjoyed the most lately.
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I don't hate or love it, its a pretty alright game but a terrible sequel.
SR2 was a much better game.
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Saints row has some issues with certain ATI cards. The few affected indivduals seem include those who like posting threads titled, "DONT BUY, BUGGED TO HELL" ie. idiots. Check the games hub on Steam to check which series has problems and if yours isnt there, then you should be fine. This game is a lot of fun, especially co-op. It is along similar lines to GTA games.
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Agree. Saints row is awesome, especially with co-op.
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Or fallout 3 if you have winXP otherwise you have to do some editing to fix the crashes and issues in Win7 or Win8.
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and many more :D
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not interested in more assasins creed than what i got already.
possibly going for far cry 2.
nty, no fable.
i dont want to play more elder scrolls before skyrim, their textures annoy me for some reason.
played lots of gta already.
i got just cause 2 and finished 1.
already played fallout 1 and 3, not that interested in new vegas.
apart from that ill check the others.
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free roam games are also my favorite kind of games :)
If you find any good ones, let me know
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checking out some of them that i didint know, they look awesome, never bothered with mafia, i guess ill try it out.
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Why not check Fable?
Fable 3 if you don't care about sacrificing gameplay for graphics or Fable TLC if you truly want a good game.
I still pop my Fable TLC copy every once in a while and have lots of fun with it, too bad the game is short-ish...
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Fallout
Borderlands
Those Two Series Will Have you entertained For a While.
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What about Fortnight first game to use unreal engine 4
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saint row 2,3 gta 3,san andreas, (other once dont know name now) just cause 1,2 ,sleeping dogs red dead redemption (but no pc S=) , fallout 3 , new vegas (I recommend picking up fallout 3 goty , new vegas doesn't matter that much you can play without and stuff but i still recommend them both goty), morrowind , oblivion, skyrim,far cry 3, far cry 2 ,dead island, Guild wars 2, guild wars 1 , WoW ofc (;p) , dragon age 1. and some more ofc but i think this enough for now
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Slight hijack
Do you get a bit frustrated by open world games?
I mean there's no end. I enjoy games like Fallout 3 because there are choices which affect the story, but I've never gone back and tried a different story ending.
Similarly SR 3 and GTA are fun, but they quickly get repetitive perhaps more so because I know there isn't much of an 'end' in sight.
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I guess completing the main story is kind of finishing it.
I have a similar feeling about MMO games. Tried one or two, but they quickly felt like a grind without much reward in sight.
I haven't really thought this through have I...never mind...
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:)
I understand the frustration, but I'm not sure what the argument is (even if I tried to make it myself) -- something about the game never being "complete", maybe -- Sleeping Dogs has a nice ##.##% completion gauge at least, but as you mention with MMOs, it turns into a grind after you've enjoyed all the "fun" parts.
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Most games of such games get completed after a long time. That there is no end in sight is one of the reasons why people like such games. I like open world games like GTA because I can do crazy stuff and I don't care if I can finish the game, I just want to have fun.
I don't like linear games that much because when you finished it you can't do anything after that.
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i dont get frustrated, in fact, the fact that it never ends its what i love most, i can explore every part of the cities, do lots of quest and random stuff, and finish the main quest whenever i want.
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Some of the games I'm about to list might not necessarily be considered sandbox/free roam so I apologize beforehand. Here we go!
There should be a lot more of them hiding out there somewhere, but I hope this list is enough for now. Tried my best to exclude games that have already been listed.
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does burnout paradise have an cruise mode where you see other players roam around the open world island?
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a game with a big world, not linear, you can go around this map withouth limits, or a long hallway forcing you to finish the main quest, sidequest, mini-activities.
that sandbox, free roam to me.
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what the tittle said.
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