While I appreciate the sharing of a good deal, all this is going to do is cause a shitstorm because no previous indiegamestand deals have been added to the bundle list. So we either let everyone exploit the shit out of this, or go back and add EVERY IGS deal and piss off everyone.
Thanks.
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Yeah, but contrib value is a constant (or at least reoccuring) shitstorm anyway. :)
While I did post this kinda just to point out my distaste for the contrib and bundle systems, it is a pretty good deal too and also the first way that existing GoIO buyers have been offered a way to get the Collector's Edition content as a cheap extra.
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you could have just said, hey IGS is having a cheap sale on Guns of Icarus and maybe mentioned the collectors edition... but why? why did you have to encourage people to get ubercheap cv? thats not right man, this is why people are unhappy, seriously.
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Levels the playing field IMO, rather than 5-10-50-whatever number of people farming a butt-ton of contrib out of it, everyone can, evenly diminishing the perceived value of contributor status.
Also, just add anything that hits 90% or more off to the bundle list.
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Like tripwire bundle that was $8.99...farmings bad, mmkay?
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Officially sanctioned! Lol.
I gave away the Dawn of War pack a while ago, the one that cost $30 but was "worth" $340 or something. It got devalued. I'm kinda glad it did 'cos it always felt cheap.
I never saw the thread or discussion about that pack but I presume the reasoning will be similar if this one gets nerfed.
Anyway, the one time I played GoI there was nobody on (and I do mean nobody), so if this gets some interest in the game, all good.
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What a joke. Did you buy their bundles? No, you didn't? What's that you said? They bought it with there own hard earned money? Well I'll be damned... I think that entitles them to the right do spend that money however they damn well please. Get off your high horse.
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Whatever. I couldn't care less. I find it funny how the people who don't give-away bundled games think they're "legit" & "better" then everyone else because they can afford to throw their money at top-shelf games, which they then throw at other top-shelf users, who then throw their top-end games in return, to complete & utter strangers. It's all the same. Your buying those top-shelf games with the same thing you would be bundled games. MONEY! & I guess if I hadn't even have given away a single game your comment would have been something like "Leech" or "gtfo until you make a give-away, you can't talk.". I'm not defensive. I couldn't give a fuck. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to go get as stoned as a bucket of smashed crabs & go play Toki Tori, never to return.
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Look at my given away games. I have 50 euros a week to live off of at my disposal. I buy games on sale that people really like / want, including some AA or older AAA games, aside from smaller games like Iron Brigade (the first giveaway on the site of that game was mine even) - a game from Double Fine, with their unique humour and style to it that a lot of people loved - that were met with incredible enthusiasm and thanks. No, I don't buy them full price - I also never buy myself games full price. I simply don't have enough cash at my disposal.
It's not about having a lot of money, it's about choosing where your priorities lie. I always share, even when I don't have a lot to share. It's one of my principles - even if I was starving, I'd share a loaf of bread with you, if you're also starving.
Besides, there's a world of difference between choosing not to give away games because you're low on cash, or genuinely not having enough cash to share (as you're saying is the case with people giving away bundle games), and having little cash, then trying to ferret out cheap ways to try to trick the system into thinking you're a generous member like buying bundles for 1 buck a pop and giving those away purely to raise your contrib. stat so you can enter more exclusive giveaways. As you seem to be doing, looking at your giveaways so far - hence ceildric's response, which mirrors my sentiment also.
Oh and, "you're" isn't the same as "your" dude. One's short for "you are", the other is possessive and means something is someone's property.
Other than that, time for me to also roll a joint, then play some Magic the Gathering. Enjoy yours.
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I don't think setting an arbitrary figure like 90% is an ideal solution, though it would at least reduce the scale of the issue to some extent. However, it's also difficult to determine what exactly counts as a 90% sale (do we count regional or very limited sales, how do we calculate different currencies consistently, etc.)
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Fair enough, I've edited it to be a bit less blatant about it. :)
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curious to know the estimate of games given away that were not bought on sale, even though this site does not have the possibly of doing that hehe.
lets have the community vote on a certain game whenever it pops up weather it should be added or not. like contributers over a certain amount given away.
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Actually, this is awesome. I was just bitching the other day about there not being a collector's edition "upgrade" for those of us that already had the game. Very glad to see this thread.
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Yes, to keep up with others who were doing the same. :) If you were reading the forums at the time, you'd have seen I started and participated in a number of discussions about improving contributor value and I would be delighted to see a system which deals with it better, even if it means losing what I've already got.
I also actually played the game and found it quite fun so I don't feel bad about giving a bunch of copies away, though I agree with the main issue mentioned in reviews, that at points the game gets pretty much unplayable due to awkward difficulty balance combined with a terrible (lack of) checkpoints.
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Yeah, so if everyone else is being an asshole and cheating the system, why not do it too right? You're a horrible person and if i were to care enough to have a blacklist id have you on it. You dont deserve to win ANY high contributor giveaways, and i REALLY hope they're all like a few users i see who have rules against pathetic cv abusers like yourself. Just stop, you're ruining the point of this site.
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All your giveaways are group or private, so I'm already on your blacklist along with the vast majority of users on this site. :)
Also, most of the games you've given away seem to be ones which were recently in ~75% off sales. Your 'true' contrib value is certainly higher than mine and an ideal system would show that, but it's hardly something to feel so proud of/get so angry about.
Finally, 'the point of this site'? I don't think there is such a thing as just one point to SG. The giveaways (both the giving and the winning) are of course a big part of it, but if it was just about that, well, I wouldn't be posting here, would I? :) The community is what makes this site truly great.
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Don't worry, bro. I think you are a good person for whatever it is worth. I don't see why he is blowing up, and I agree he is a hypocrite. Most people on here only buy games when they are 50-90% off to gift. I don't really see why someone like that would complain about someone giving bundles as long as someone is happy at the end of the day.
I notice several people are buying the Penny game for 1 dollar on steam. The only difference between the two is the amount of contribution points a person can get. Both are like 90% off or something. It's just some arbitrary line the people draw I guess.
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There's a big difference between 50% off and 90%+ off. Plus, most people generally agree that Shadow Harvest is a pitiful game. Nothing hypocritical about that.
The amount of CV one gets per dollar spent is EXACTLY what is at issue. I do not see how you can brush it off by attempting to equate something that is 80% off with something that is 96% off.
If a person buys the Penny Arcade game they get $5 CV for $1 spent.
If a person buys GoI Online CE they would have gotten $33 CV for about $1.40. (if it had not been added to the bundle list).
That is a 5 - 6 times greater return with the latter.
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If someone gave away GoIO CE at full price, they would get $33 CV for $33. If someone gave it away after getting it at 75% off, they're getting it for $8.25, a 4 times greater return. Yes, 75% sales are common on Steam and so they're accepted because it would be too much hassle otherwise - but the problem with the system starts there, not with greater sales elsewhere.
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I think that's a valid question to raise. I do agree that the CV + bundle list system is a fairly blunt instrument but it's better than no system at all. Proposed fixes have seemed lackluster so far, but it would be nice to see it improved upon.
Still, I would point out that the gulf between a bundle sale and Steam's price (sale or regular) is much larger than the distance between the distance between full price and 75% off.
As you say, GoIO CE at full price is $1 for $1
75% off it is $4 for $1
IGS price is about $23.50 for $1 (more than 5 times the 75% off price, and 23.5 times the full price)
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I think we pretty much agree on this in that the system is pretty rough right now but until there's a better proposed fix we just have to live with it. :) I just wish people would focus their attention more on the system and what could be done to improve it.
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So it is based on return then? Well then, how much of a return is fine?
The 80% - 90% distinction is moot. Gol could have been 75% off and the mods still would have likely listed it as a bundle. The line is very arbitrary, in my opinion. Even if it is based on return.
What if a $60 game is on sale for $10? Or a $20 for $2 dollars? I think mods just kind of go on a gut feeling basis. But you may be right. They could be trying to cut off exploits before they happen by assuming which games will be exploited (based on potential returns). I think that is more fair than going back and deducting CV like they have in the past.
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it just ticks me off that you are ok with getting a higher contribution than me for giving away substantially less because you know how to get around the system. Im here for the community too, and yes while you notice my games are ones on sale, thats because i dont have a ton of money to give back. But you dont see me trying to abuse crazy machines and shadow harvest to be able to enter the same giveaways as people who dedicate a lot of money to this site. Im not really proud of what i have as far as contributor, but i am disappointed in people like you who have no problem with what you are doing.
I give away only in private and groups nowadays because of ungrateful people and people like you who abuse the system and should not be rewarded.
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For what it's worth, apart from my Darwinia soundtrack win which was a $350 contrib giveaway, the largest contrib in a giveaway I've won was $100 which I already had in contrib value before the Shadow Harvest stuff, so I spent more 'abusing' than I actually got for abusing. :D
One of the issues was that when the shadow harvest abuse started - before I took part in it - some people posted that they were going to increase the required contrib value for their giveaways as a way of fighting that abuse. However, that just ends up punishing the people who don't take part in the abuse.
I don't exactly have a problem with what I do, per se, but I'm not proud of it either and as I said, look forward to a time when it doesn't matter. :)
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First off I hate people who abuse emotes like ":D, or :)", It's very annoying and childish. Do not try to defend yourself and say "because they do it we need to do it too". Think of it like this, Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3 is on sale for $1 essentially right now. It is indeed very cheap to get and easy to get.
Now here's where the main problem is, Penny Arcade is worth $3 if it isn't on sale whereas a game like Shadow Harvest is worth $20 when it isn't on sale. Both were pretty much bought with for the same price, but which one is more profitable? If you don't believe me look at the statistics. The amount of Penny Arcade giveaways this week is about 70, but Shadow Harvest has been given 300 times in the span of one month. After that month you don't even see a single giveaway.
Moral: If people actually cared about giving the game instead of boosting CV you'd actually still see people buying the game legitimately for %50 or %75 off and giving it away instead of buying it in a bundle for $1 - $5 to abuse the CV system. You also must think of profits, obviously if a game that is worth $3 goes on sale, it won't be too profitable to buy 20 of it to just increase your value by $60 when you can just buy 3 Shadow Harvest copies for $1-$5 for essentially the same amount.
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First off I hate people who abuse emotes like ":D, or :)", It's very annoying and childish.
Speaking of emote abuse, there's at least 7 such abuses on your Steam profile, at least 4 in the introductory paragraph alone. If that isn't gross abuse then I'm not sure what is.
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Tsk Tsk, there's a large difference between using emotes like ^_^ or :). Also if I choose to at least make a serious argument at least I don't try to hide behind emotes, my profile is just for fun.
Also, when I put emotes in places I actually mean it. I was happy when I was writing my profile pic and remembering the good times I've had in my various games. I bet you didn't even read it and just looked the emotes, my favorites emotes nowadays will have to be :X, ^_^, and another one SG won't allow me to use.
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I don't 'hide behind' smilies, not sure where you're getting that from. For what it's worth, I don't particularly like the kind of smilies you seem to like, but I don't imagine you have any ulterior motive for using them.
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Not necessarily, they seem to be more to me. I was just shuffling through your comments and noticed the only emote you use is :), which is one of the ones I find the most plain and annoying -_-''. It isn't a bad thing to use emotes, just make sure you don't excessively you it for everything.
It also doesn't help that probably each and every one of the comments I've seen so far have the emote :) in it, when it's quite obvious you aren't smiling the whole time you're writing it. It just looks as though you're trying to troll a serious discussion. I beg to differ though.
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I see what you mean, but I think there's a reason for it. It's difficult to represent subtleties in smilies so there's three ways to go about it - I approximate them to basic smilies, you exaggerate them to weird smilies, and more sensible people don't use smilies at all. :)
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Sorry, but that's the one of the most ludicrous things I've read this week, and I've read a lot of ludicrous things this week.
An elitist attitude to emoticons... you couldn't make it up.
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Other than your odd complaint about smilies, I'm not even entirely sure what you're replying to with that. However, telling people not to abuse things will never be a solution when dealing with a sizable community like this - such pleas won't work on some and won't even reach others, and what actually counts as abuse is subjective.
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Which is the exact problem. It's a chain of effects when one person does something and others see that it works, then others will want to do it as well. The contributor system is a great idea, so is communism. But it isn't possible because humans are humans and we will never think to do things equally. Getting rid of the contributor system won't solve the problem because way back before CV was even introduced people were still trying to abuse the use of cheap games to give away just to look important.
What do you mean "What actually counts as abuse is subject?" Abuse is abuse regardless of what happens, exploitation of keys, exploitation of a cheap offer to gain more CV, they are all the same. Though if we're talking about physical abuse that is a different story o_o''
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Whether something is abuse, in this situation, is based on everyone's own idea of what everyone else should be doing. Someone could argue that anything other than paying the full US$ price for a game is an abuse of the system, someone else could argue that there are situations where someone could obtain a game for free, give it away for contributor value, and it would not be abuse, and I don't think anyone could make a point which would disprove either.
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herpulse, who cares as long as he is giving out games for free?
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The contributor value system rewards those that giveaway games and are thus keeping the site alive. The bundle list is an attempt to target those rewards to the people that are giving the most desirable games (i.e. those that are not easily acquired cheap or free).
If people were honest with themselves they would admit that their contribution of some bundle games, or a dozen copies of Shadow Harvest are not adding to the site in the same way that the appearance of a giveaway for a new or popular game would.
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but ceildric, he still paid for those games with his own money and you can't really complain about winning a game for free unless it was obtained in an illegal way or something like that.
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Noone said anything about complaining about winning a game for free. The issue is whether a person that has contributed 10 Shadow Harvest games (a poor quality game with a net price of $10) should be rewarded in the same way as someone that gave away 2 copies of Skyrim (generally highly popular game, with a net cost of at least $60).
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The bundle list has flaws (there's no set rules for what counts as bundle-list worthy, some bundles are nowhere near as widespread as others, some bundle list games are still more desirable than some non-bundle list games, no distinction is made between pay-the-minimum and beat-the-average games, and it generally just assumes the worst of anyone giving away a bundled game), and I'd be in favour of changing it drastically, but I'm not currently aware of any suitable replacements.
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Two questions for anyone that's bought this:
Do you get separate keys for the bonus content, or is it all one key?
Is the soundtrack FLAC or MP3?
Thanks. :)
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I finally got around to getting this, and damned if I didn't get one, single key. I paid the average, so am not sure what the hell's going on. Worse, the main game key is supposed to go to someone else (I only needed the DLC). Crap.
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I enjoyed the action of the original GoI, but found this a bit dull, perhaps because I'm generally not a fan of teamwork based games unless the individual players really stand out. That said, I've never really been able to give the game much of a chance since - at least during beta - there were constant disconnections, and according to the website this is a compatibility issue with XP and so I'm assuming it hasn't been fixed since then.
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OMG, at one point in time, you Did Not Understand How the Site Works?
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(I meant so you would be able to get 999 CV.)
Jatan is right lol. You will get the CV. Actually, you should get all the CV and still be set for 999.
Kinda funny that you forgot how the site works though lol.
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You might have enough non-bundle value to get to $999?
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""Delete is and done other giveaways!" ....what?"
What? lol?
"where did jatan say I'd get the CV?"
Well, I thought he meant what I meant. Not sure. lol
"And, it's not true, unless I'm missing something."
Tsk tsk. Shame on you for not knowing tihs, you are support. :p Clicky.
I believe if you give enough real games you get all your value from bundle games. (If not all, some?) I forget how that complicated ass system works.
But yea, most people don't know/forgot that you do get CV value for bundle games if you give away nonbundle games.
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You said that a couple of posts above
"Quick! Delete is and done other giveaways! :3"
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Oh. I meant Quick. Delete and do other giveaways. lol
That came out quite mumbled. lol
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Well that's not what you said~ lol And from what I saw you didn't have many bundle ones?
(Oh, site suggestion, mark giveaways with a * in the title or something to see if it's a bundle or not, or at least in the manage giveaways one, would make things easier kinda.)
Yea. lol See above.
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So guess that means all indiegamestands will be on the bundle list now? :P
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It's kinda strange that it's on the bundle list despite being the only actual content of the sale. I think the 'bundle' list should really be renamed to the, uh, 'enough people complained' list or something.
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Yea, that or the potential to be exploited. As I mentioned above, that Penny Arcade game is $1 dollar right now, but you will only get $5 in contributor points (I think) if you buy it. I guess there is a less chance of people exploiting that. I wonder where the mods draw the line. Lets say a $10 dollar game is on sale for $1, will that be put as a bundle? Or maybe games purchased on steam are always exempt? Like is it based on what site the game is purchased on? Genuine questions.
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90% or a little more on Steam has never been considered a problem (Rome: Total War, Railworks, etc.). I think that goes for games bought on other stores, such as GMG. I think that for now the rule is applied only to "pay what you want" style deals.
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I would assume it's due to the fact that Guns of Icarus Online was already on the bundle list. The fact that you could use the Collector's Edition keys to technically convert bundle contribution into real contribution is probably why the entire thing was added.
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Thanks for the heads up, but the most pertinent question I feel is... is this game's population dead/dying? It's a major problem for multiplayer indies and I've already witnessed first-hand Shattered Horizon turning into a barren wasteland. Didn't matter that the game was brilliant, it just didn't have the self-sustaining cultural presence to retain a playerbase. And from where I'm looking a PWYW deal is exactly the sort of last desperate stunt a dev would pull before their game bottoms out. It doesn't help that from what I found that game does have a stiff learning curve and microtransactions despite not being F2P.
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Found a post on the Steam forum from three weeks ago where they said that at the time the post was made there were around 350 people online. Which is enough - I play indie mp games with less population (eg Ravaged, which has >100 players online on average only) and they're still very playable. Now with the IGS deal there will be even more players I guess. I bought it, currently downloading. For that price you can't do anything wrong anyway, even if the game would be dead in a year.
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I'm thinking about buying it, but I'm gonna wait, maybe I win it anyway :P
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Right when I was about to make a giveaway with my Guns of Icarus Collector's Edition Gift. Are you fuckin kiddin me? Now it will not matter. How about the staff makes a difference between game gifts and keys when they are considered bundle games or not. This sucks!
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In an ideal world I'd agree with this, however, managing it would be a hassle (unless it was done in a way similar to Playblink's bot) and not managing it would be hugely open to abuse, especially for private/group giveaways.
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Sure, I give games to friends in real life, to friends here on this site, and off site. But, sometimes it is nice to make a stranger's day and get a glimpse of their apparent gratitude. A few of them have even became new friends.
None of that friend talk is in any way related to your motivations to give away here, or your concerns about how much cv you can rack up. But you redirected from that point with what seemed to be a lame attempt to make a negative assumption about me.
Alrighty then, not wasting any more time here.
Cheers
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I think you're just offended because my statement has truth in it and that always hurts. In the end it really is all about CV, for 99% of this site's users whether you want to believe that or not. Don't defend yourself with words like lame in the future even if you want to act tough and holy. Best of luck!
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Seems you want to appear pathetic by again trying to make yourself feel or look better on here, with excuses for your behavior. You couldn't offend me or know any truth about me even if you even actually tried.
Guess you have the free time now since your epic giveaway was foiled by a sale.
Better luck next time.
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It's actually easy to understand if you think about it like this: I don't need the collector's edition, just the basic guns of icarus online which was tagged as a bundle game, I thought about giving it away and searching steamtrades for a basic copy since I got it in a trade, the CE would count towards my CV, I got reminded today when I saw a guns of icarus CE giveaway, but when I tried to create it was tagged as a bundle game. I don't have multiple copies, I love it how people don't read comments and just act like smartasses that think they know a man's real intentions. Don't tell me what to do, keep it to yourself in the future, I'm good on my own.
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You gave away a copy a week ago, so you would thus have had more than one copy in total. Why share your opinion when you're unwilling to listen to another's? Do what you want, complaining isn't going to change the fact that it's now bundled.
Btw, you need to activate your wins. Don't tell me to learn to read when you haven't read the rules for Steamgifts. Thanks for pointing yourself out.
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https://indiegamestand.com/ - 4-day deal, Guns of Icarus Online with the Collector's Edition content if you beat the average, which is $1.55 at the time of writing.
Edit: It's been added to the bundle list now, but still a nice deal for those who genuinely want to play it or get the collector's upgrade. :)
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