Okay EDIT: jadefalcon if there are some giveaways pls swing your suspend hammer with a big BANG
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I suggest a revision of your policy. Instead of suspending them for violating both rules, just pick one. Then when they complain about it, make a big show out of acting magnanimous and lifting the suspension... THEN suspend them for the second reason. ;)
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No, that's when I smack 'em with inappropriate behaviour for blatant disregard of the rules. ;)
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Even with this post, there're still gonna be people exploiting the system
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Unlikely, since it outright says they'll be suspended.
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/me makes the post above sticky with his tongue
Good enough?
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Jade used Search Bar! Jade found lokonopa's thread detailing changes to the bundle key rules! It's super effective!
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Yeah, that's the one game in this bundle that I'd like to get. There probably will be more giveaways of it after this bundle sale is over, but people may have to have it as a tradable item in their Steam inventory to avoid potential key/bundle issues.
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This was an update reminder.
I suppose that it will be included in the FAQ the same way the support categories has (which thejadefalcon also wrote about in a thread before it got edited in there).
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The FAQ is already clear on this subject. The problem is the only way to get to the rules in through the forum, which means that only the subset of people who read the forum have a chance to see them. It would be easy to put a link to the rules in more prominent locations, or even mention the bundle key rule on the giveaway creation page (since it's supposedly the rule that's being broken the most), yet for some reason this isn't happening.
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The FAQ is actually also at the bottom of every page on the site. The banner at the top is also crowded. I believe cg once said he was going to add the FAQ up there and it was for a while before being replaced by the site chat, then the servers. It'll probably pop up again once the bigger issues are dealt with.
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wait what dude? what did this site become? not so long time ago this was a cool place to give games and win games - for free and without any obligations. now you guys are starting so suspend people who actually give away games? so what if the keys are from the bundles? no wonder. people are trying to bypass these limits you have put to this site by introducing those useless and unnecessary contributor giveaways. can you blame them? excuse me but at the moment this system is totally messed up. maybe you are now going to suspend me for having my own opinion and sharing it with others?
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No, I'm not going to suspend you, but I am going to call you a moron. Not so long ago? You've been here for two weeks. Maybe you should read the rules that have been in place for over seven months now and read around for why those rules were in place? Especially since Puzzle Agent is already an exploited key.
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im actually here for 6 months already but i sold my old steam account. i have read the rules in about the time when i joined the site but i still dont quite understand whats so bad about bundle keys (i mean non-exploited ones)? there would be absolutely no harm in giving them away if there was no such thing as a contributor giveaway (see? all problems started with that). why was this feature brought here in the first place? seriously, if someone doesnt want to give their game to the leechers then he should think about making a group giveaway or not giving it at all...
im just trying to say you guys (admins) will have to deal with this kind of crap every time a bundle goes to sale and you are just making it more difficult for yourselves with the c. giveaways.
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"Can I share games / bundle / Desura keys if I already own a game in the bundle?
Indie Royale bundles are strictly for personal use only. Sharing Steam keys because you already own a game in the bundle is not allowed." -- http://www.indieroyale.com/faq
Pretty much
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Indie Royale has one key for all the games, too, but Desura only though.
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Well it's funny because a guy gave away a spare HIB key which is against the HIB policy and they did nothing here because they thought they shouldn't ban someone for that reason. I do think that some keys from bundles should be allowed if it's not against the bundle policy
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Except that that rule has been in place at least since I got here, before contributor giveaways even existed. The reasons behind it have been discussed ad nauseum - here's an example from just the last few hours: http://www.steamgifts.com/forum/CtkiV/the-rule-about-not-allowing-single-games-from-bundles
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We should make pictures and send them to the Valve's Internet Police!
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Wait a second... did you, by any chance, win some games through SteamGifts on your old Steam account?
Did you, by any chance, make profit out of an account that you might have won games from?
Unfortunately, I cannot fully trust your answer (if you'll give me one, that is), but I hope that your conscience will be a better judge.
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You know, you don't have to be that rude. You can reply in a kind way to a new person on the site. New policy: welcome every new person with a sentance you're a moron. I'm not saying he shouldn't read the rules but he really can't know if this rule was there for a month or for 7 months...
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Any word when CG unveils this new system I keep hearing rumors about?
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Is it still alright to toss keys in forum for funzees? [probably a stupid question]
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I don't like this rule. Now I have no way to cheat the system!
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I have a question, do he rules about exploited keys apply only to, well, keys?
So could I, for example, give away Puzzle Agent as a Steamgift from my inventory or could this get me suspended as well?
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Ok. I'm not banging my head against the wall with this argument again. I promise I'm not. All I want to know is why there is such an accepted cognitive dissonance when it comes to the chat and the forums. The way I read it, the argument goes like this:
"Can I give my single bundle key away?" NO "Why not?" YOU'RE CHEATING YOUR WAY INTO CONTRIBUTOR STATUS! "But contributor status is lame anyway. Can't we just make it worth 0 or 1 point once it's in a bundle?" NO! WE HAVE IDEALOGICAL ISSUES WITH THAT AS WELL!_ "Ok, ok, I can respect that. So no giving away single bundle keys. Got it." BUT YOU CAN POST THEM IN THE FORUM OR CHAT ALL YOU WANT. "What? I thought there were idealogical reasons?" THAT'S JUST FOR GIVEAWAYS. FORUMS WHERE THE FASTEST NINJA OR SCRAPING SCRIPT ALWAYS WIN DON'T COUNT. "Why not?" FOLLOW THE RULES, YOU RULE NOT FOLLOWER!
edit -> formatting.
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You don't get it, do you? Maybe if you read the FAQ in depth you will understand. It's not written down per se, but you don't have to be that smart to get this other damn good argument for not allowing bundle-keys.
And yes, this post itself contains a hint!
Edit: I give you another hint. Maybe this topic will help you to understand: Klick me! It's a newer one with the same old question.
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I have gone over the FAQ in depth. I really have. And I understand the other argument. I do. You'll notice no bundles in my giveaways. I'm asking why the idealogical argument stands on the site proper, and not in the forums or chat. What makes that ok? Maybe it really is just a disconnect that I'm not seeing. Please feel free to point it out, and get me right with god, as it were. But please don't talk down to me. I'm a member of this community, I try to be an active participant on many fronts, and I'm not a child.
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Honestly, it's a pretty poor argument, imo. Give everyone a week's notice. Let them move all their old stuff. There are already games forbidden to be gifted altogether due to exploited keys, At least setting them to 1 point it going to give them a little credit.
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I did not intend to talk down on you. I apologise for hurting your feelings.
But if you ask me you should work on the cognitive dissonance and not try to change the way the rules of this site are displayed, maybe even the people of this community or the mod's way of dealing with it.
Reading the FAQ or nice and reminding posts like this should be enough. It's not like that huge, complex and difficult task to read the rules and accept them for the site, the forum and the chat. See it as a transfer of what they learned by reading the FAQ and just expect them to apply the rules with a bit of common sense.
And if they can't, because they did not understand the rules, did not get them or in most cases didn't even read them...well, bad luck. You can't change much about that. They just get suspended in most cases and in even more it was the appropriate response of the mods to their actions. The rest is collateral damage, but what can you do about those who are not able to understand (maybe because they don't speak English) or get the rules. Like I said: The rules aren't that complex and are easy to apply with a bit of common sense.
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Because it has nothing to do with contributor status?
Because giving away single keys is against the spirit of the bundles; especially because you could keep Desura keys, DRM free downloads for yourself and only hand out the steam keys?
Because people who say you can give away the key in forums are only saying it so you would shut up and are missing the point a bit?
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Your post came across as mean spirited, irritated, and downright prickish. But that last line was probably the most satisfying answer I've seen, so I'll take it.
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The other point (as I understand it): The overarching conceptual core of many (if not all) of the bundle packages is to give you many games that you might not have tried otherwise, along with games that you know you'd like, at a very reasonable price. The way this benefits developers (outside of the sales share generated from the bundle itself, which surely varies) is by giving them increased exposure for their game, and perhaps generating an interest in the company's past and future projects as well. Getting the word wout is key for an indie developer to either gather enough of a following to start making real money and stay afloat, or to get snatched up by a bigger publishing house, ensuring they live to develop another day.
To that end, these bundles of keys have always been intended for one person apiece, and to be given to friends as entire sets. Splitting it up and farming it out reduces the overall exposure the developers recieve, and thus essentially cheats them out of their primary motivation for offering their game for inclusion in the first place. Throw in the fact that many of these bundles give to charities (or at least have the option to do so), and you have a strong case for ensuring everyone gets their own bundle, period. Idealogically speaking, this is a firm and valid argument, and one that I can respect if it is applied uniformly (thus my issue with single bundle keys being ok in chats and forums).
Are we seeing eye to eye? Will you link this post to the next person who you don't beilieve understands the idealogical argument? God I hope so, I'd hate to be seen as obtuse.
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You are trying to make users who think different to look like an idiots with this capslock. But the only one is you with such approach.
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Actually, in that case capslock was both differentiating the other side of the conversation, and indicating the power behind the overall community, and the mods in partucilar. I think you'll find, if you actually take the time to read an entire thread, that I'm being very reasonable and was asking a question about enforcement and uniformity as opposed to trying to change a rule.
On a more personal note, we've posted in the same thread many times, wojtek, and I can't recall a single instance where you have ever made a unique and valid point. I appreciate that you're trying to add to the dialogue, but I wish you'd do it in a less irritating manner.
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Wow, now you are just lying. You could actually formate post like mine. Also, why there are many exclamation marks only on the one side? The power of community? It's the power of the owners of this site.
"On a more personal note, we've posted in the same thread many times"
Now you are being just a jerk. I could say that same about you, buy I don't make any personal references.
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When you consider that your previous post wrongfully parodied my statements, as well as inferring that I was trying to cheat the contribution system and steal games while characterizing me as a leech (my single, $10 game that I've won...), I'd say I used a fair amount of restraint.
Jerk.
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"wrongfully parodied my statements"
You first parodied others opinions. You deserved to be parodied as well.
"as well as inferring that I was trying to cheat"
What? Where did you read such stupid thing?
"characterizing me as a leech"
What is wrong with you? Seriously?
"Jerk."
Now you called me a jerk, because of some imaginary accusations. Don't bother to reply again.
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Oh, it's no bother, believe me. I'm not really doing anything else with my afternoon. The satellite is cruising just where it needs to be, and until it breaks, my job is just to be on hand.
Now, go up the thread. It will be about 5 posts up from here. Do you see that post? That one where you used the capslock? That was where you wrongfully parodied me. Take note, now, that there is a difference between a wrongful parody and a rightful parody. By reflecting the actual opinions of my subject, I made a rightful parody. By reflecting incorrect opinons about yours, you made a wrongful parody. This is also the precise place that you inferred that I was a pirating, contributor cheating, leech.
I know this is mostly wasted on you, because I honestly no longer think you actually understand me. Maybe I'm wording my ideas wrong, maybe English isn't your first language, or maybe there is an intellectual gap that just can't be easily crossed here. It's not important, and I'm not even mad about it. I'm glad the system is robust enough that it can handle issues like this without breaking. I just wish you'd put a little more effort into thinking before you post.
Edit: It needed a paragraph break. Really, really badly.
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I didn't parodied you. I showed, how can you manipulate with people's opinions, as you did. Can't you understand it? It's really simple.
So now stop bitching and acting like a jerk, you are really unfriendly type of guy, who thinks that is better than others.
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Woah, banning people for submitting gifts. And calling people morons. Nice. Real professional. I wanted Puzzle Agent, too.
In other news.. stuff like this doesn't lead to a suspend?
I stupidly entered without reading, now I've won a beta key.. err.. yay? If/when he contacts me that is.
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If it's not allowed it might. Write a short ticket in the support forum. That is the reason it is in place.
The mods here are no gods, you know. They are doing this for free, for all I know. Be a bit more thankful, ok? And there are a lot of people doing things not allowed...and I mean a lot...like a gazillion or so. I don't even want to start counting.
Just don't enter giveaways without reading the description by the way.
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Woah, this again. You can giveaway whole bundles. You can't giveaway separate keys, because it's against rules of these bundles and SG's. You could keep Desura keys and DRM-free copies and giveaway Steam ones. That is just being jerk, not nice contributor.
About that BETA key - submit a ticket please.
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It's true. These forums are very, very hostile to new people, and they seem to both be aware of and take a certain pride in the fact. The diachotomy with the good natured concept behind the site is really baffling.
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Make any suggestion at all about a site enhancement and see how that goes. Ask why a policy exists, and see how that goes. I haven't even been a member here long, and already I'm sick of many of these threads, so I can see why they get the responses they do... But the amount of self-righteous indignation flowing on the forums is potent. And it usually hits the new guys head on, but that's ok, cause, you know... they should know better with their hour of experience.
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Why don't they read the goddamn FAQ then. The first thing I do when I join a forum or a community is to look for their rules, because I want to know what they expect me to do, how to behave and so on.
And please stop making it sound like the rules here are outrageous. They are pretty decent and are in place to make this a community everyone can enjoy.
And regarding suggestions or questioning a specific policy: Why don't you try the lovely search feature of the forum? Am I asking to much of you? Is making a new topic for every answered question or old discussion really necessary?
But I get it: It's easier complaining and blaming someone else. That way people don't have to invest their precious time thinking about how to add something to this community and they are still occupied. Seems legit...
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No, you're totally right about the FAQ and learning the rules. I certainly did, and ideally everyone would. But some people don't do it, and some people don't search before they post, and some people do search before they post, and then post anyway because they think that they have a fresh angle on the whole thing, or they want to open a new discussion instead of reviving an old one (I've seen people get reamed for this one, too). They then make their topic, and unfortunately everyone gets to watch a core of irritated, grumpy, downright mean forum posters eviscerate them within minutes.
I'm not saying they're right, I'm just telling you what it makes this community look like, and what it felt like the first couple of days I was active. It's not a very welcoming atmosphere.
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"Suspended by Hichigo 5 hours ago"
"silkst (40 minutes ago*)"
Seriously? You can't even check his profile before bitching about a lack of a suspension?
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Why are you so defensive? I wasn't bitching about the lack of suspension, in fact I didn't realise it was something he'd get suspended for until I read these replies. I am sorry I didn't view his profile first. I agree, my fault. In all honesty I'm still learning the ropes here myself! And yes I've read the faq but I'm old and my brain is full of garbage, so things get forgotten. I still struggle with the weird way hyperlinks work here ffs. :/
As I said before, the forums are hostile. I know you don't get paid to moderate, but part of your "job" is surely learning how to talk to /deal with your community and this is not it. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to see someone with support next to their name speaking with such hostility. You would gain much more respect if you were polite, even if you think people are thick, lazy, stupid or ignorant, it's entirely possible to be the bigger man and be nice to them all the same.
If you hate the job so much that you lash out at people perhaps you shouldn't be doing it, as it can't be good for your health.
I hope you won't ban me for speaking my mind. :)
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You won't get banned for speaking your mind. And it's great that you read the FAQ. It's no problem if you forget things. That is why it was written down and Hichigo didn't call you this morning to tell you the rules on the phone. So just look it up. It's pinned in the forum. You obviously can't miss the topic.
And if you ask me it was very nice already, giving every single one of us a headsup with this topic instead of suspending everyone of those who gift Puzzle Agent without warning. There was no obligation to do that.
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I'm not defensive, merely fed up with people asking for suspensions for people already suspended to the point where I want to suspend those people for wasting my screen space and slowly killing my scroll wheel. Half of one thread yesterday was filled with those posts. Generally, I'm a nice fellow. I'm the SG good cop. But when I see stupid post after stupid post after stupid post, I'll tell those people exactly what I think of them and their combined intellect. I may be a mod, but I'm also part of the community, not someone on a mountain screaming commands at the lot of you. If someone needs a verbal smackage, I'm more than happy to be the one to do that.
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Wait, what? Telltale? These are guys doing huge deals with giant corporations (NBC Universal for Jurassic Park and Back to the Future, LucasArts for Monkey Island, AMC for The Walking Dead) and yet somehow they get included in a promotion meant to focus on indie developers?
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You got it backwards. Getting a license typically costs money, not get you money. Telltale develops and publishes its own games, and is therefore an indie. They are more indie than Double Fine, which published Brutal Legend under EA, and yet was also featured in an indie bundle, and would normally be considered indie (because it's not under the umbrella of any big publisher).
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Double Fine currently has fewer employees than Telltale, by several dozen (and that gap will increase by several dozen more soon, as they're hiring like mad). There's also a huge disparity in the number of games they've made: 7 vs 21 (61 if you count each episode in a series individually). Across all platforms as seperate SKUs: Double Fine has 17, Telltale has 214. Soon to be 215 once The Walking Dead launches for iOS next Thursday.
The main issue at hand completely went over your head: Telltale Games has become a big publisher.
EDIT: Oops, Double Fine's unique SKUs are 17, not 15. Fixed.
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My reaction was perhaps not the best one. What I wanted to say was that indie bundles have for a while now not been purely games from small indie devs. I don't see games like Psychonauts and Commandos as fitting a narrow definition of indie. If you widen that definition enough to fit these other games, I think that Telltale games would also fit. I agree that Telltale has become big, though I wouldn't call it a big publisher, because it still publishes only its own games.
I think that "indie" bundles are becoming more general game bundles, still with an emphasis on small indie games, but leaning more towards just providing a good value.
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i just learnt from the OP that the keys for Puzzle Agent are exploited. it happens that i was given one some time ago (by trade, not on steamgifts), well before the last IR bundle. can it be exploited too? is there any way for me to know (other than asking to the trader)? are there any possible consecuences for having redeemed it for my steam account? thanks in advance
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"are there any possible consecuences for having redeemed it for my steam account?"
Wouldn't worry about it. AFAIR they were considered 'exploited' because they could be gotten for free by beating some sort of safe cracking mobile game. So, they mustn't be given away on Steamgifts, but they are not illegal to have on your Steam account.
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Didn't loko , when he was @support , said he'll be allowing bundle keys but mark them as not sent so the gifter doesn't receive contributor $$ ? I find this to be a great idea
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That was before the bundle change was decided on. It should be rolling out "soon."
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Well, they should know the rules. What better way to educate them?
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Indie Royale is out again and contains a Steam key for Puzzle Agent. In the vague hope some bundle key spammer sees this, you should know that I will be suspending you instantly for both submitting bundle keys and giving away an exploited key, even if that's the only game you submit.
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