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This is ridiculous. $250,000 for a lousy 8-level expansion pack? ONE MILLION US DOLLARS FOR A TOWER DEFENSE GAME? Whatever happened to the money they made from the first game, spent it all on hookers and blow? I liked Defense Grid, but this shit is out of all proportions.
That's the last straw, I'm officially swearing off Kickstarter forever. I was full of good hope about it early on and even backed some projects that looked interesting, but this is getting way the fuck out of hand. I can no longer in good conscience support any of this nonsense.
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They claim it costs $250,000 to make 8 levels, for a game they already made and have all the tools they need for. If creating a few lousy levels costs a quarter million, imagine how much it would have cost to make the base game and all the DLC. Keep in mind, the Resurgence pack is also 8 levels, and so is the You Monster DLC!
I don't believe it for one second.
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That's not their claim, you just don't understand what they're doing.
They want to make DG2. Each tier was a milestone that would help them reach that goal - the first tier, the expansion, bridging the story between DG1 and DG2. They knew the odds of reaching 1mil was slim, so instead of setting that as their kickstarter goal, they decided to do the tiers to entice fans. Even if they don't reach any other tier, every contributor will still get DG2 when it's released, it's just going to take longer than if they raised more money.
Game development isn't as easy (or cheap) as you apparently think.
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In Order to be able to ship a level editor, they need to make an own engine, since they could not struck a deal with GameBryo to make one for DG1. To circumvent legal problems with that, they need that money. It is really that expensive to make that... good programmers cost money.
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Regarding the $250,000 I think they didn't make it clear enough that making the DLC is not costing them $250,000. But all the funds they get that are above what they need for making the DLC are going towards making DG2 which they will try do anyway, it'll just take much longer. Since they can't make DG2 for just $250,000 but still want to get funds for developing DG2 and want to give the people who back them something, they decided to make DLC. Again that doesn't mean that making the DLC costs them $250,000.
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You don't get the level editor for $250,000 though. The quarter million goal is just for 8 new maps for the old game. It's deceptive as fuck because the Kickstarter is called Defense Grid 2 and the goal is $250,000, but if that goal is made you only get 8 new levels. The Resurgence pack is also 8 levels and costs a total of $4 in the Steam store. You don't get the level editor until they've reached the goal THREE TIMES, at $750,000.
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Actually they say they couldn't fund the game themselves in the FAQ at the bottom of the page.
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YES! Defense Grid: The Awakening is by far the best tower defense game I ever played and is the second most played game on my Steam list (after Binding of Isaac). I love absolutely everything of it.
I backed this as soon as I saw it.
To the people who complain about the big money they want to fund their game. As I understand it, they are trying to make Defense Grid 2 in any case with their own money, but very slowly. They have very big plans for DG2, which you can see on the kickstarter page like a new engine, multiplayer modes, level editor, bringing the game to Linux and Mac, etc. To be able to develop that rather quickly and as polished as the first one they need a lot of good people that cost a lot of money. You can be pretty sure, that $250,000 is not enough for that. They aren't a very small studio with 2 or 3 guys. You can see that in the quality of DG1. And these people have to be paid. But they also want to give something to the backers, if they only reach $250,000 or $500,000 etc. That doesn't mean, that developing 8 new maps costs them $250,000, but the rest of the money would go towards the development of DG2 anyway.
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"But they also want to give something to the backers, if they only reach $250,000 or $500,000 etc. That doesn't mean, that developing 8 new maps costs them $250,000, but the rest of the money would go towards the development of DG2 anyway."
I skimmed over the Kickstarter page and couldn't find anything to that effect. Do you have a quote?
However, even if that's true, they're still very clear about what you'll be getting for your money. If they don't get 4x their asking price then you're not getting DG2 for your $15 (or however much you've given them), even if that's what you thought you were paying for. Of course they'll still keep your money, and in exchange you'll get some cheap DLC at the very least. If you still want DG2 after that you'll need to buy it when it's released.
Fortunately, if it doesn't look like they're going to get their $1,000,000, you do have the option to cancel your pledge. Surprisingly though, the "free" copies of DG1 they're giving to people who pledge $15 or more go out before the Kickstarter even ends, so you should still get to keep that even after you cancel.
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Wow, looked closer and read some of the other comments here: I'll feel like I wasted my money if they don't fund the full expansion. I'll probably cancel my pledge if they don't. I'm not paying $15 or more for an 8 level expansion pack. Seriously.
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(Copying and pasting from other thread because I can)
(I hate to be That guy but I'm going to be anyways.)As cool as this is I find it fishy they using a quickstarter for money.
I think they just want more money in their pockets. But hey that's just what I think.
Heard the first one is fun though.
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I really enjoyed DG, but I will not back this - I'd rather wait till it's on sale on Steam.
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I wonder how games where funded before kickstarter ...
If they have so little believe in their work (as in "we need to 100% fund it before we make it, because we will not have any income by selling it at all"), then - in my opinion - they do not need to bother making it.
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They probably earn as much as they need to pay the wages for the people who are working on it and perhaps a little extra, but that will never ever be enough to fund a new game.
Regarding the $250,000 I think they didn't make it clear enough that the DLC is not costing them $250,000. But all the funds they get that are above what they need for making the DLC are going towards making DG2. Since they can't make DG2 for just $250,000 but still want get funds and want to give the people who back them something, they decided to give them the DLC. Again that doesn't mean that making the DLC costs them $250,000.
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From their FAQ: "Since Defense Grid shipped, we’ve been working for other folks who look for people who make high quality games – most recently Valve for the Counter-Strike franchise – and that has been great work that helps our team gel even further and allows us to create great game experiences, but it also isn’t going to provide enough to fund a Defense Grid 2."
How do you get the idea, that they earn a few million dollar with CS:GO? That's work for hire, they get the money from Valve to pay their wages and a bit extra while they work on it and that's it. Valve gets whatever money that game will generate.
You'll only get a DLC, if they don't reach at last $500,000, because they can't afford to develop more than that in a reasonable amount of time and without money from elsewhere. Let's say e.g. they get $270,000. And let's say they need $50,000 for developing the DLC and take the rest to further develop the new engine for DG2 so that they can release it in not 10 years, but 5 years. Should they really promise every backer, that they'll get DG2 in 5 years? They could never promise that because no one knows what'll be in 5 years especially in an industry like the game industry.
They can only promise a new DG2 that is as polished as the first one and made in a reasonable amount of time, if they get $1,000,000. Because you need a lot of good people working on it 5 days a week for that, and those need to be paid good money or they work somewhere else. Let's take just another example, let's say they'd need 1 year with 15 people, each of which earns $50,000 a year, that would be $750,000 in wages alone!
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I love how people are comparing AAA titles from giant developers to the sole release from the company at this time. I don't think the development costs would be comparable.
I must say, the estimates from some people are hilarious. One billion to develop a game? Blizzard has stated they did SC2 with under $100m.
As for the people commenting about how much the engine would cost, they would have only paid $30,000-$45,000 back in 2008 to use Gamebryo to make Defense Grid.
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To those stating that goals levels are quite expensice, do remeber that not all funds go towards only the game. Since it is kickstarter, a good part goes to the pledge level products + shipping, sometimes 5% if they are part of Kick it Forward and also 5% go to Amazon Payment I believe.
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Only pledges over $75 received anything through shipping and it starts with a poster. They're making money off of any international shipping, unless they're using a thick cardboard cylinder to mail the posters and even then, it'd just be less profit.
I don't think they're losing any money there.
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All those Kickstarter I've seen up to now that were sending mainly posters and T-Shirts used those cardboard cylinders.
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Pokemon Tower Defense its pretty fun and has a story line and its free
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No just putting a fun tower defense game I've never played one like Defense Grid so I wouldn't really know
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I liked the original, but I didn't like it THAT much. Plus it is an indie game so chances are it will end up in a bundle for a cheap price. See what you made out of me, bundle industry? Enjoy your no money.
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Yeah, the thing is, most good indie games only end up in bundles a rather long time after they are released. If they are really good (like Defense Grid 1 is), and you want to play them now and not 2 years later, you'll gladly pay the normal price, which is still much lower than that of AAA games. It's always the same with games and software: The older they get, the cheaper they are. If you can wait, you can save money. That doesn't mean the original prices are too high.
All other games end up in sales too, so that's really nothing special for the indie games.
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Yes.
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