Awesome! I love Linux but devs never bother to make games for it.
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It seems like they wont have to since every game will probably be auto-converted thanks to our lord and Saviour Gabe Newell.
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Seems like the converter works well, if anything they it will differ with different engines. I don't think they will botch it since they are building a game system on it.
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True but if it does work as good as stated there would literally be 0 reason to try to make Linux versions at that point right?
Wait and see, still exciting.
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That would still make devs to use DirectX for their games instead OpenGL. Macs also use OpenGL and when devs only use DirectX there will also be less Mac versions of games when Valve won't release the wrapper on also on Mac. Even Wine stops some devs from making Linux and Mac versions.
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What can they do? Probably nothing.
Gabe already talked about this for some time, he already tried it on a Portal and Left 4 Dead and those games ran more efficient on Linux when converted.
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Source does not claim "Apparently they made a DX to OpenGL wrapper to convert all games"
That is why I call bs. Wrappers are a cause of inefficiency. Your link proves nothing more than Valve converting THEIR games to OpenGL for use on linux. That is not the same as taking some other developers game and using a wrapper.
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Yeah they are going to invest and release a system that only plays Valve games.
Seems logical and a great use of money...
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Dear god, it is like you are stupid, wrapped in retard, drizzled with moron. Let me dumb it down for you:
You:Apparently they made a DX to OpenGL wrapper to convert all games . . .
Gabe already talked about this for some time, he already tried it on a Portal and Left 4 Dead and those games ran more efficient on Linux when converted.
Me: Gabe did not use the wrapper on Valve games, they recoded it, hence the increase.
Using a wrapper causes inefficiency, thus if you try it with off the shelf games, you lose some of that benefit.
Dur? Got it now?
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At least I am man enough to come right out and do it instead of making backhanded insults like:
"Seems logical and a great use of money..."
Fucking spare me. Just admit you are clueless about what a wrapper is, and that you made up half the shit you claim.
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I would like to see where they said they used the wrapper on Portal and L4D.
The blog itself states performance improvements fall into several categories: Modifying our game to work better with the kernel, modifying our game to work better with OpenGL and optimizing the graphics driver. That doesn't sound like they used a wrapper to me.
Wine has been doing this for 20 years, I doubt Valve has something that trumps them.
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Yeah, but it is also a timing/latency issue. They may end up more resource efficient in the end, but the games may still not run great if different DX calls aren't processed in a timely fashion, especially in something like a twitchy FPS with real physics.
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You just got done complaining about OP "talking out their ass", now this is all speculation, there COULD be issues, it MIGHT not work on a FPS with or without physics. Until we actually get our hands on it, there is no way to really know. Its great, you are skeptical that some 3rd party developed or at least alluded to a set of tools that lets gamers play their catalog on linux.
Granted, it could be a complete waste of time and just be worthless, but attacking users leads no where, and no one has a definite answer. Even if its ment for more casual games its still a great step in the right direction. If it works for all of their games then wonderful, I will switch to linux from win7.
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I would think every game since its just a Direct X to OpenGL converter, it would be silly to not do all games, if they are gonna base a Steam system on it.
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Wrapper != conversion
I don't think you understand the underlying technology.
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No, I think you are just clueless, talking out your ass about shit you know nothing about.
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Yeah...pretty much done responding to him.....hate that mentality.
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Awww, the sticking your fingers in your ears and going LALALA defense, when you are completely wrong about an argument, but not man enough to admit it eh?
Classy.
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Yes, cause bringing facts to the ignorant masses is just arguing right? OP is clueless, read a couple articles, misinterpreted them, and is passing on that ignorance to others.
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Well MS can always put limitations for the Steam software in place such as on the OS Windows 8 or maybe kill future projects related to the Xbox 360.
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Thats like MS being pissed with Apple and every dev that makes games for linux/mac/ps3/wii. Just what the hell do you think MS would do? They still get their cut for DX usage, if anything this would PLEASE MS because now devs have no reason to code using OpenGL and can continue to use DX.
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If Valve manages to make that wrapper without somehow breaking any patents, and MS still gets revenue for DirectX as you say, then maybe. Wine has existed for quite some time and all MS did was trying to make their own applications not work and that's it, but I imagine Valve's solution would be much easier to use. I have no idea what they're gonna do about it.
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I would imagine that the wrapper would be integrated into the steam client. Whether or not its use is tied exclusively to the "valve box" is yet to be seen. Id also figure that it would serve a lot like wine, but maybe coded better and have better integration and support. Who knows, Valve might release their own kernel of linux. I doubt that, but its fun to think about.
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Where's the source for it. I highly doubt there is any fact in this statement...
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For people who like gaming and hate Windows it will do a lot, Linux is also so much more stable so the console will not run into many issues, this will change enough if all goes well.
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Windows ain't gonna die, but this is going to be a pretty heavy blow.
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Pretty much, I will still boot it for certain programs honestly.
Lightroom for one.
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After the recent program release which lets Linux users watch Netflix, I dont think I will EVER boot into Windows again (if this happens of course).
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I would think both since they just released Steam for Linux.
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Sweet. Maybe now we won't have to suffer through having to use Windows 8 if we want to use DX 11.1 as Microsoft just lost one of its most valuable selling points for the OS. Other than the factory built computer and the tablet markets, of course.
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In essence, that is what Windows 8 is. It's a tablet OS.
Although it has been proven that customers do not enjoy the Microsoft Surface, it's still what they are going for (I am aware that Surface is not quite a tablet, but it does run on the same exact idea).
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I prefer Windows 8 over 7 honestly, runs better and I like the start menu Puts up flameshield.
I never used the start menu in 7...or Xp....or etc....lol.
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Well, you can't use DirectX under Linux anyway. Games pretty much need to run under openGL
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I mistrust this magic DX-OpenGL wrapper. I don't think it's that easy to get acceptable results.
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Guess we will see soon enough, I am hopeful, don't think they would build the system on it if it was not doable though.
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Yeah but I would think if the system will be built on Linux and they just released Steam for Linux that they would try to get all the games(Majority at least) onto it so it doesn't fail. I am sure it won't be super easy but I would hope they made it so it does it well, hopefully they been working on this wrapper for a long time.
Its all sorta speculation though....wait and see I guess.
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I know that, I was hoping Valve might have figured it out or how to obtain better results though since they are basing a system on it?
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I would think they'd get a lot more money from licensing the tech to developers or even offering to port the games and receive a cut from their Linux sales, if such tech were to exist.
I won't be surprised if we're playing most games at 640x480@30FPS, maybe 1280x720 if we get real lucky.
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That would be depressing and a terrible move, I would expect at LEAST 720p but they would be crazy not to go full 1080p at this point since next gen consoles will probably be doing just that.
But yeah it would probably work something like that, it will boost game sales anyways if there was Linux versions...I would think.
I still hope it turns out well.
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Gaben said that ages ago, when he tried the first windows 8 beta. He said that the OS sucked balls and that if Apple and Microsoft didn't change their ways, he would convert everything to Linux. No more bottlenecks :D ! It does burn, does it ? Aaah geez, I'm so happy <3
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Well, to be fair, the "steam box" is less like a console and much more like a mass produced, mass marketed, portable gaming computer. Spec'ed, built, and made for gaming without the proprietary bs that consoles bring to the table. Easily upgraded parts, bulk pricing, stripped down OS built around the purpose of gaming/media usage, and so on. But its all speculation still.
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No clue...but its suppose to compete with next gen consoles...so it can't be that much.
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Hopefully there will be a pricing error and I'll be able to pick it up for only $5. With my luck it would likely be in Russia only though...
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I think it won't be cheap. Valve has to put good hardware into it to compete with the consoles. The requirements for the Windows versions of many games are high and when the games need to to through a wrapper or converter the console has to be even more powerful. Valve would need a good plan to keep the price down to compete with other consoles.
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Thats kinda why I am excited though...I want to see what they have in store.
I don't think they will go more then 599 though...they might have to eat costs at first like many consoles do...not sure how feasible that is for Valve.
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Not really... All that we knew was that the Steam Box was a thing.
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Uhh no....
This is new news, did you look at the link? Even says the 6th.
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Was referring to the confirmation, which we had it for a while now. And the rest of the article doesn't say much else at all, except that we'll know more at the 2013 E3. So... guess the website's pretty late with the article or it's a reminder.
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Wait, it just dawned on me. Valve is going to be a contender in the next generation's console wars. Not with a new console, though. Big Picture mode, Linux compatibility, controller support... they're wiping out the need for a console because the PC will BE the console.
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Where are you getting the fridge door from? If we are discussing BPM or steam in general as a viable alternative to consoles this IS A MUST. Why? Because of streaming to the TV, like you said. You know, where most people hook up their consoles.
Considering I've been using hulu, amazon and netflix instead of paying for cable for two years now I don't see how this is unreasonable at all
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Hence why I started with "I can understand the desire"...
Nowhere there did I say Steam shouldn't have streaming apps if it's going to contend with consoles, of course it should. It's just an odd influx, like when we were kids and one day suddenly everyone came to school with a yo-yo.
That said, I prefer the old NAS/laptop streaming maneuver to the console business. More control over the whole process.
EDIT: Paying for all three of those things at once can't be cheaper than paying for cable...
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Ah. Starting with the "God..." kind of set a negative tone ;)
hulu is free, the amazon isn't too bad with a student account and my roommate supplies the netflix. It's also more a matter of convenience and "voting" with my dollars. Even if I were to pay 8 bucks/month for each of those I would much rather do that to have access to those services than the antiquated cable system. Yes, I know DVR is a thing that lets you record shows so you don't HAVE to watch them at the exact time they air, but I'd rather have multifunctional devices. I wouldn't buy a hulu-only box either
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There is a strong possibility the next Xbox will be unveiled at the 2013 E3. Chatter is getting intense over it and Microsoft even bought a company that focuses on technology related to distributing and displaying digital media on televisions recently. Also, I don't remember exactly who, some director at Microsoft or something, just started some countdown on his personal blog, or something like that, that ends around this year's E3, but without any indication what the countdown is for (someone game me a link but I don't remember exactly where I saw it, if I do, I will reply to myself with the link).
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And I still won't convert to Linux. Oh boy, I have to learn how to do literally everything over again for... why, exactly? I'm not gonna change my keyboard layout to Dvorak because the time investment outweighs the benefits, and I'm not gonna change to linux for the same reason.
Just for the record, I'm not flaming anyone by asking this, I'm genuinely curious. Why do people use Linux for anything other than nerd cred? Apple machines do legitimately do some things better than Windows machines, but where is the benefit in Linux machines?
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If this new PC thingy Valve is releasing is running Linux... why do YOU have to convert to Linux on your own current machine? There's no point to your issue here. They aren't going to ever release support for Windows on regular PC platforms. Sure, Gabe doesn't like Windows 8, but he doesn't have to stop supporting Windows 7. And nobody is going to be forced to upgrade to Windows 8.
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I know, I was just curious why people convert to Linux period. I know this is nothing but good news for them, and nothing but neutral news for everyone else, but I was just curious what the benefits are at all. I'm not computer savvy enough to know just what makes Linux so much better that people are willing to use it.
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I don't know that myself. Guess it's something only programmers can tell you. The better question, considering everyone is "meh" and neutral about Linux (except the small percentage of people actually using it), is why is Valve so keen on focusing on it?
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Nowadays there really is nothing to learn...everything is basically click to install. Its a hell of a lot more reliable, almost 0 viruses/spyware/malware/etc...and to get them you have to be real dumb. Much more customizable, runs faster, everything is free basically except for a few things, the update system is 10 times better then windows, you know how you need to update almost everything in windows separately? 1 click from the control panel and everything updates in Linux, every program, codec, flash, drivers, new version of OS...etc....
Many other reasons I cant even think of right now...basically its just better all around.
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To be fair, I don't see any reason for normal users to really use it over windows if they already have windows. Sure you can rice better on Linux with more tweaking but if you aren't going to learn the terminal or use it for programming, a lot of the benefits are lost.
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All I know is I have set it up for people that are not very good with computers and complain about Virus problems and 100 other things on windows and most say they will never go back. I don't see why a normal user would use Windows over Linux honestly. Most users I know stick to browsers/documents/email, and its pretty much set up like that from install, the quick and simple updates work better for these people also.
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I suppose Unity and GNOME 3 works for most people changes things to make it easier for people to use. Still, (maybe its just being biased as a dev) but the terminal is three quarters of linux. Not learn that and you aren't utilizing a lot of the power.
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Honestly I am not THAT big a fan of Gnome 3(Its ok...) and actually hate Unity(Well last I tried it, hated it). I usually install Mint with a Cinnamon or Mate UI, put Mate on my moms computer and she loves it, hasn't had a single problem, she use to scream about windows every couple weeks, made me go crazy all the time.
I never really touch the terminal anymore, I have been using Linux since I was 10 about and you use to really have to use that to do a lot, now everything is 1 click install/download, sure you might not be able to do all the fancy stuff with that I suppose but for most people its perfectly fine never seeing a terminal.
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Yes, thats only if you go with the Debian based distros. What about Arch, Sabayon (or Gentoo), etc?
I think when you say that Linux is fine for most people, its more of the Ubuntu and not Arch. Sure now many need to use the terminal but once again, thats only in the Debian based distros that have software centers.
Plus, I don't really see that big of a need to use the GUI either. I can live with everything in the terminal. Only reason I use a DE is cause I rice.
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Yes those can get a bit complicated, Debian distros are great for people that just want to have everything work nicely together without issue. I still think its great for most people because of that.
Thats all :-)
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Have everything working nicely together without issue
Don't tell me you never dealt with driver problems on Linux. If I was to buy a laptop and installing Linux natively (and not in a VM), there will definitely be driver problems if you don't do some amount of research.
Also with certain GPUs and such, you'll get tearing from a certain composing engine.
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Once its up and running its fine and less finicky then Windows, I ran into an audio issue once or twice, thats about it, but then again I have ran into the same issue on Windows operating systems also...plus other ones.
Actually I am going quite insane right now with Windows, for some reason both my Xonar DG and 460 have static in the sound....tried a bunch of crap....ughh.
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Linux has some advantages over Linux (like Hillary pointed out). But I can understand that people don't want to change. Why should they? I think that Linux is more for people that have some more knowledge about PCs and it doesn't make sense for many people to learn some extra stuff. I began to use Linux just because I got bored from Windows and wanted to try something new and I think that's a reason for many people to try Linux. They just want to get away from Windows everyday and want to try something new. I use Linux now when I don't want to play games, it does most things better than Windows but when I want to play games I use Windows.
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I am a nerd I guess, I have 2 computers hooked up to one screen with a KVM switch haha...
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I use it because I code stuff on it or deploy to it. The linux terminal is much better than the windows one, and its much for flexible for programming. To be fair though, my ideal setup would be rMBP for coding and then running VMs for Linux for deployment.
This probably isn't the answer you are looking for because I'm not the normal user.
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Based on the other answers above, someone who codes pretty much IS the normal Linux user, which is kind of what I thought. Windows is better for games (currently), Macs are better for artsy stuff, and Linux is better for tech stuff is what I'm getting.
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Where does it say they're working on a DirectX -> OpenGL wrapper? In any case, you need way more than that to run Windows programs in Linux, and Wine already does that.
For all I know, all Valve is doing is porting the Source engine to Linux.
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Maybe I am assuming to much but I would think so some sort of wrapper/technique like it would be needed for this?
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Oh god yes
Waits for all games to convert to Linux
Apparently they made a DX to OpenGL wrapper to convert all games, bye Windows....
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