Ah, thank goodness. It was really getting out of hand, and its really not fair to the developers when most people are only paying $0.01 for those gift copies.
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I think that there is not a way you can check that you have a Humble Bundle on steam. Maybe an alternative route would be if the user had all of the games from the Humble Bundle we can assume they have a Humble Bundle, or at least not need any of the games. Just a thought.
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I am certainly hoping this limit will be removed a few months down the line. I specifically bought extra copies of HIB3 so I could run giveaways later on in the year for people who missed it when it was out, and I'd prefer not to be limited to just three copies.
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That is my same goal. I plan to pick up a few more copies so I can share them later on in the year.
Too many copies available right now on here. x.x
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Yeah, the giveaways are flooded with HIB3. x.x Good though for me as it means I can start saving up my points for the games I would really like to attempt to win.
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Might I ask how much you paid for those extra copies?
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(Preface: This post is not directed at FaultyWiring, just at the contents of FaultyWiring's post and those like it)
Seriously? Where does how much anyone spent on the HIB3 have an effect on you personally? The way things are going it seems some people believe they are the personification of generosity and are put into actual physical pain when someone spends less than a dollar. It has absolutely no effect on you what someone else spent on the HIB3, so why should you care? It doesn't even have an effect on anyone you know. Why should we go though these witch hunts again? It's childish.
Not only that but actually asking someone how much they spent is above all else rude. Asking any stranger their financial situation is quite rude.
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Well, regardless of whom it affects, I do think that doing unethical things should be socially unacceptable, and I'd consider it unethical to treat the HIB as a free giveaway when the devs involved are bending over backwards to be generous and treat consumers well.
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If you take what the HIB means literally then it really does mean 'pay one cent and get a copy of the games'.
I honestly won't bother to argue the ethics of spending less than an 'ethical sum' on the HIB3, but I will argue against just treating people poorly over something as simple as a giveaway that actively encourages people to buy one cent copies.
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Well it's not something I'd end a friendship over. Personally my horse can't stretch that high, especially since my financial situation means I can't afford games for myself right now much less for other people (although I do plan to contribute giveaways as soon as that changes). It just bothers me when people take advantage of 'honor system' offers like these. It's a chance to show people that gamers aren't all immature, amoral savages the way it sometimes seems if you frequent MMO forums or keep voice on in an FPS, and the people who load up with 100 1 cent orders are actively working to keep the stereotypical image.
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Thing is though, this sale doesn't only attract gamers. It also attracts people who buy hundreds of copies so that later on they can sell them for $25 a pop. If anyone uses the HIBs as an indicator on the generosity of gamers they are a dang fool.
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That is not what the HIB means literally. If it was, everyone would be paying one cent. The point is, the developers are being nice to everyone, and everyone should be nice and not take advantage of them. They have shown that they would like it if you could spare a dollar, and that's the least you could do for them. As the website says, "You determine how much we deserve to earn or lose from your purchase." I think the ethics behind the HIB shouldn't be ignored, as they play a large part in it.
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Pay what you want to give to the developers and charities for 5 games...
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I agree. But there are likely a few (not all though) who might not have the couple of dollars or more to donate in order to get this.
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A couple of dollars? you realize you can get it for a cent
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Yes, you can get it for a cent if you have absolutely no morals whatsoever. While buying it for a cent is perfectly legal, it is morally equivalent to pirating the game.
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I was just about to say something similar although I wouldn't have gone as far as holding it equivalent to pirating.
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To be perfectly honest, it is actually worse than pirating. When you buy it for $0.01, it costs the developers transaction fees greater than $0.01, and it costs them for the bandwidth you use to download the games. Over thousands of people, those costs eat a big chunk out of their profits.
If you pirated the HiB instead of buying it for $0.01, you would actually save the developers money.
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So, can I put the rest of my stock at the 3rd time? Or I can just put 3 copies per giveaway?
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I think CG is saying that you can give a total of 3 HIB3s ever, at least for now. Maybe in the future he would change this rule to something like "A user can only post one Humble Bundle giveaway per week.", we'll see...
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Why are the humble bundles allowed at all? It is ridiculous... most people who gift them probably only payed a few cents which makes it a total ripoff for the humble bundle #3, since it currently is still running.
Please guys, disallow all humble bundles, at least while it is still being sold on humblebundle.com. You are doing these great guys who try to do something good for indie gaming and charity a HUGE disservice.
All the time this site gets flooded with humble bundles, even before the new one came out. IMHO you should demand a proof of purchase of at least 10$ for expired humble bundles. It's a total farce that people get to shelf of their 0.01$ copies around here.
It's easy to do the right thing here.
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"Please guys, disallow all humble bundles, at least while it is still being sold on humblebundle.com"
I agree.
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I agree with you on this one: we should not allow humble bundles until after the humble bundle period is over at least. People who know about the Humble bundles and like the games should go to the site and donate (I am not going to comment on how much people should or should not comment on as this is something that I leave to their morals and more importantly their hearts and consciences) when the bundle is available from the site and get the game from there.
Once the bundle is over, only then should they come here for the benefit of those who were unaware if indeed that is their intention, which I shall assume it is (I only came to know of this now, so I missed out on the previous bundles for example and even then I do not want to enter because I feel responsible if the gifter paid like half a cent (is that possible?) or something for a game which devs spent countless hours and efforts in making- I was into that once (minor mod dev) so I know what hard work it is...) so I do not enter, even though the frozenbyte bundle games were the kind I would really have liked).
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I completely agree.
This humble bundle has totally made me loose my faith in this community. It seems that most of the people here are more interested in getting free stuff than supporting the people who have spent their time and money making the games they are practically stealing. This community is absolutely pathetic lately :/
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Yeah it does seem a bit daft having current bundles on the site at all. The people doing it are - for the most part - unscrupulous individuals trying to accrue points and due to their nature I'd be surprised if they paid more than 1c for each bundle. I'm tempted to buy a few packs for ~£5 and list them when the bundle is over for the benefit of people who missed it. I'm still desperate to get my hands on the first two bundles so I'm not going to say getting rid of bundles completely is a good idea, just while they are current.
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most people who gift them probably only payed a few cents Are you shure and can say it EXACLTY? No? Then PLEASE, stop talking this kind of nonsense.
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I don't know about Deathcrow, but after talking to several individuals who put up HiB3 giveaways, they all said they only paid $0.01 each. One of them even claimed to have bought 300 copies at $0.01. His claims are not baseless.
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I agree with you too Renaissance, there is no need for a witch hunt. We should not accuse anyone of doing that which we would not like to be accused of ourselves. Regardless of how it looks like, UNLESS the gifter admits to it (and believe me some were so iniquitous that they almost boasted that they bought the bundle for 1 cent as well as verbally lash those that questioned their actions) we should not accuse giveaway maker of buying it for 1 cent (I think the issue is not how much they pay but more of the fact that humble bundles are made to support devs and charity and by paying 1 cent you are actually cheating something made for a good and noble cause)... That said, I firmly believe that Humble giveaways should be restricted until after the bundle is no longer available from the site itself...
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As a general statement to those who keep attacking Bundle purchasers: Your morality is not everyone else's. Please stop insisting that your moral compass is objective, and then using it to go on tirades insulting and berating people (many of which aren't even here to defend themselves).
As an indie developer myself who has put months of carpal tunnel-inducing work into my game and who is looking to soon be published on Steam, if our game was up on the Bundle, I couldn't care less if a lot of people got the bundle for 1 cent, 5 cents, 20 cents, or whatever. The reason "Set your own price" succeeds is because it allows everyone a fair shake at enjoying the games while generating a large amount of revenue. The purpose of "set your own price" is for the big picture; you're meant to look at the total revenue generated, not nitpick and call people out. Please, don't cry crocodile tears for the developers. We can handle ourselves and don't need rude, insulting people to speak on our behalf.
It's a complete catch-22 to say "You can give whatever you want. But if you don't give as much as I personally think you should based on my subjective morality, I'm going to call you a pathetic child and parade it around forums I frequent."
It's utterly unnecessary.
And for that matter, regardless, it's absolutely none of your business what people paid for the bundle. All I will tell you is that I paid much, much more than one cent. But I'd rather not get any pats on the back from people who are going to just turn around and hack up venomous remarks at those who spent less on a deal where they were free to do so.
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People exaggerate a lot of times to make their points heard but CaptainDingo, you push it a bit too far on this post. Calling others rude, insulting people and putting insulting words into others mouths like pathetic child is not the way to build bridges. You are not the only person here who works in the gaming industry, and even if it was the case that doesn't put you above the others.
"Pay what you want" may be the slogan but paying less than $1 costs Wolfire games money, each of the payment options they list below charge money per transaction. That is why they put a catchpa and a comic image of a poor game developer that pops up when you try to pay less. Denzi, they can't put up a "minimum purchase amount" and still call it "Pay what you want".
Most people I saw here are just asking others to be more considerate and pay more when they do buy it. Not exploit the giveaway to grab dozens of bundles to just generate more points on this site.
CaptainDingo, I found your post much more offensive then the others that you speak against, even though I'm not one of them.
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You see though, sticking so tightly to 'Pay what you want' is silly if it is, indeed costing them any money at all. It's an entirely absurd business practice to willingly hold onto a practice while it is costing you money. If this really 'was' an issue there would actually be a change to the system where 50 cents is a forced minimum. But since there has not been a change yet, you can not assume peopel buying 1 cent copies are actually costing anyone anything. And if you wish to argue that, I'd love to see where the humble bundle guys have specifically listed the fees they take for each of those transaction (agencies?). Heck, pull me up how much paypal charges for charities (Which I've heard that paypal doesn't charge transaction fees for charities on this forum somewhere, at which point it's just silly to argue that a one cent transaction costs them anything).
And before someone decides 'oh hey this guy is supporting one cent HIB3 purchases!' I'll say flat out that I'm arguing the right for people to purchase one cent HIB3s, not that it is something that should be done.
Edit: And just a question but can anyone here honestly say that people are not using their moral compass as an excuse to insult and berate others? Because I'm seeing way too much of that here and it makes me wonder just how good of a community this is if something as simple as paying an allowed price is in a bundle causes so many people to attack eachother. I thought we out grew our 'witch hunts' phase.
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I find your argument ridiculous. Just because the HiB guys haven't publicly talked about transaction fees or bandwidth costs in no way suggests that these things don't exist.
Every time you use your credit card to pay for something, no matter if it's the supermarket or online, somebody is paying a transaction fee. Ever seen a little corner store with a sign that says 'Minimum spend for credit card 2.50 or 0.50 surcharge'? Same concept.. if they process your card for less than a minimum amount they actually lose money. But chain stores don't care and will let you pay for a 0.50 lighter with your credit card because the small loss they make on you is much less than the money they make on other customers. Just like the HiB can make money overall, even though they lose money on 0.01 transactions.
Processing fees and bandwidth are never free - somebody somewhere is always paying. Just Google your own example and you will find that "PayPal offers our lowest transaction fees for registered charities – 1.4% + 20p for receiving domestic payments.". In other words a 0.01 donation to a charity would cost 0.2028.
And HiB is not even a charity - they're trying to make a profit so their fees would be higher.
When World of Goo did a pay-what-you-want thing (this was before the first HiB), they stated transactions under 0.30 cost them money http://2dboy.com/2009/10/19/birthday-sale-results/
Proun is pay what you want but with a minimum of 1.72 to cover processing and bandwidth
I think the bottom line is that processing fees and bandwidth are never ever free. If HiB wants to keep selling bundles at below cost, they will keep losing money on those. Whether that's good business sense is up to them. What's up to you is whether you will cost them money, or make them money. We don't know exactly where the line is, but they have to be losing money on 0.01 transactions.
And a lot of people on this site (myself included) feel uncomfortable participating in a site that rewards people for buying 0.01 bundles that cost the HiB guys money because in a way I can't help but feel complicit even though I don't participate.
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You bring up some very good points stray. I certainly wasn't meaning to sound like I was saying because the HIB guys have not discussed fees and bandwidth that it does not exist. I was mostly trying to get the people who argue those points to come up with some proof. If you(the audience you, not the stray you) are going to argue that one cent transactions cost them money, then I want those people to bring up some evidence to back their assertion like you have (the stray you, not the audience you).
I will still argue that because they allow people to buy one cent copies, then there is really no reason for people to complain. It would not take much to put in a minimum of a 20 cent transaction to help keep themselves above the transaction fees. Heck if they wanted to I am sure they could set it up so that if you purchase one low-fee copy your purchase information is restricted to only buying additional copies at a value that will not cost HIB money. (Such that, if you buy a one-cent copy you can not buy another one-cent copy with the same purchasing information and instead have to buy fifty-cent copies). I've no idea how something like that would work as I do not have experience programming billing systems, but it would be a way so they could still be 'pay what you want' but restrict small value purchases that cost them money.
As for feeling uncomfortable because the site allows 0.01 bundles, what do you suggest the site does to differentiate between 0.01 bundles and 1.00 bundles? Is there a way to look up the price on a bundle when you are only given the steam code? Or what about if you are given a gift link, can you look up the price through there?
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Just because the developers give you the freedom to pay whatever you want does not mean they are fine with a majority of people paying 1 cent. Go to the Humble Bundle website yourself; they removed the default option to pay the average or $1 above the average, and so far, the average purchase has risen.
The image for paying less than $1 is further proof. At that point you are exploiting all the hard work and generosity they put into this. I also think you are exaggerating about how rude it is to promote others to pay more than a dollar. We simply want the developers and charities to get the money they deserve. We're not forcing anyone to do anything.
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Same point I've made above. If they really had an issue with people paying one cent then they would not include that as an option. It's terrible business practice (even as a charity) to allow yourself to lose money to something as easily avoided as a minimal transaction amount. They've done the bundle deal three times hence and have not changed it. Thus people buying one cent copies actually do not matter in their grand scheme, as they must be making 'some' profit.
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I agree that people buying one cent copies does not matter in their grand scheme, but only because of others who pay extremely large amounts to balance it out. I also agree people have the right to pay one cent. However, we should all be promoting everyone to pay a decent amount for all the effort and kindness that the developers put into this. I do not see how this is rude or insulting.
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Promoting everyone to pay a decent amount is neither rude and insulting.
Telling someone they are immoral because they spent one cent is rude 'and' insulting.
It all comes back to what I've been preaching the whole time I've been on Steamgifts. Positive reinforcement trumps negative reinforcement. If you want people to do something then you should provide a reason to do it, you should not go out and admonish people for doing what you did not want them to do.
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It's not about the "poor, frail, neigh-homeless indie developers," it's about charity. If one person spends the bare minimum for these games, fine. Paying 1¢ is within subjective moral boundaries and it's their right to do so given the guidelines of the HIB, but that doesn't mean their free from judgement and criticism because of it. However, when one person spends the bare minimum for several copies of these games to in turn tout them in the name of "the kindness of giving," it should be looked down upon and entirely discouraged.
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There is absolutely no viable reason why the HIB's or their games should be allowed on the site. What's happening here is tantamount to stealing from charity for some transparent form of e-cred with the cheapskates who would bid on these 1¢ purchases. Many people may very well be paying a reasonable amount for these games, but it's guaranteed that most are not.
I feel that unless a user can verify that they spent at least a quarter of the total cost of any given bundle, they should not be allowed to give it away here. Obviously there are people out there who abuse the HIB's with much seedier, profit-driven intentions, and I'm not saying those who spent several cents for several bundles are essentially bad people. These HIB's wouldn't be in their 3rd iteration if they weren't incredibly successful, but that's no reason to aid the mentality that it's okay to stockpile these games en masse while giving virtually nothing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but steamgifts.com is about the satisfaction and pleasures of giving, not taking - and certainly it's not about traffic, right?
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Has there been any particular consideration toward the pricing of the HIB3 on Steamgifts? 10 points seems generous given that it hasn't ended yet, and some people may end up spending a penny per bundle just to generate points for other giveaways.
I'm sure you mods have taken this into consideration, and that many of the HIB3s currently up for giveaway are a way for some people to say "hey, I can make a giveaway, too," but it almost seems slimy in some odd way.
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To avoid users posting hundreds of copies of the new Humble Bundle, we set a cap, so at most a user can give away 3 copies.
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