Capitalization is a waste of time
A well needed bump!
These days, the misogyny pollution in the media and online make it a little hard to breathe.
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My sister's company had a discussion about sexual harassment in the work place today. 350 employees. 65% men. Guess how many guys showed up? 5. Next one will be mandatory.
I just don't get it.
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You just don't get it? I wouldn't show up either. Especially if it's during work hours, because well, I have work to do. And I don't need a lecture about how to be a decent being. Mandatory? I would appreciate if this oh-so-PC culture wouldn't assume every man is a rapist.
Guess why that five showed up. Collecting virtue points or simply slacking...
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It was during lunch break and I promise you there are women who work over time who still made the time.
Mandatory? I would appreciate if this oh-so-PC culture wouldn't assume every man is a rapist.
The conversation is not about rape and you are the one making assumptions. If I had worked there, I would have shown up because I have nothing to feel guilty about.
And the next phase is mandatory because they are discussion groups and they want the input of everyone. Exactly because they don''t want men feeling somehow victimized because they're asked not to be disrespectful to their colleagues. The horror!
Why I was wondering is there have been many unreported but well known instances of harassment in the company and since they always involve the same handful of jerks, and nobody else should be worried, why are the vast majority of men, all decent guys, a no-show? And if you think it's because they are worried about being falsely accused, then isn't it all the more reason to show up and talk about it?
Guess why that five showed up. Collecting virtue points or simply slacking...
Actually 2 of them were exchanging texts and giggling like school boys so I guess they just thought it was funny. One of them was a lawyer for the company. I guess the other two just figured maybe they had to work with women on a daily basis and it would be a good thing to know what their concerns were.
Now let me ask you, do you randomly drop by to troll people posting in the thread or didn't you read the title?
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Well, you conveniently skipped my point. Nobody would show up just to say "this is not me". I would presume most of them treat women decently, and they don' feel comfortable that someone still wants them lectured about it. And those who are jerks don't care anyway.
I fail to see how is saying "I'm not happy you think that I need to be educated about sexual harassment" is whining.
If it would be about smoking breaks, I'd go, as I acknowledge I go outside for 2x3 minutes a day and I'd know the meeting is addressing me. But those who don't smoke wouldn't care.
You said you don't get it, I tried to show why someone wouldn't go. But since I have a different view on this, you call me a troll, priceless.
Also loved the bit below, where you said "it's a conversation, talk or stfu".
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I didn't skip your point, I told you what I thought about it. Like I said, the vast majority of the guys who didn't show up have nothing to feel bad about so why not show their support for the women they work with? It was not a lecture, they weren't called into the principle's office, it was a discussion about work environment.
I work with more men than women. If somebody acts like a jerk to someone else, I tell them to back off. It's about supporting people you work with. It has nothing to do with gender. If it was about racism in the workplace, despite being white and not being a racist, I'd still show up.
And if it was about smoking in the worplace, I'd also go even though I stopped smoking years ago because it concerns me as well, as part of the people who have to pick up the slack while others are taking 15 breaks a day to smoke, 10 minutes at a time (seriously people are big smokers here)
So no I still don't get it. And I'm not calling you a troll, I am asking if you're trolling. Since you obviously don't care about the issue (as you say yourself you wouldn't show up, why are you even reading this thread?
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From their point of view, that's not "showing support", it's "working for free". Because that's what it is: it's working, and working overtime during lunch break, no less. For free. People flee situations where they need to work for free like the plague. Seeing that the next one is mandatory (which means an actual part of their work routine), the company has realized the blunder they made in thinking that people would show up. Don't get me wrong, having such events is very important, but the way you do them has to be appropriate, and expecting people to volunteer to do free work that doesn't benefit them in any way they can see is not the right way.
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I promise you, nobody in that agency is counting work hours. The women who were there often work longer hours than the men (for less pay but that's not the issue today) because the departments that employ the most women are not getting overtime and they're not working mostly with clients (like the sales department for example where everybody checks out at 6pm when clients have gone home). If it was a problem of work hours, I'm sure they'd have been more than happy to count the hours as work in their timesheet and get overtime for it.
You do have a point though, it should have been made mandatory from the start. Maybe they'll even have free beer at the next round of meetings, that usually works in that company :P
All jokes aside, my point was it does benefit them. Even the guys who are not part of the problem need to be there to make sure they understand how it all works. When I said "talk or stfu", I meant that they can't play the "not my problem" game and then later bitch that women are a pain in the ass and it would be better if they weren't working there at all if something happens. They're concerned whether they think they are or not. They should be concerned about covering their ass in case of litigation for example.
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Hmm, that changes thing a little... I don't know where (what country) that is, but if compliance with (or existence of) regulations concerning work hours is any indicator, then I'd say that most men don't see any reason to participate in such an event simply because they don't see any reason to, rather than it being work; you were right about that after all.
I completely agree that it does benefit them (possibility of litigation being one concern out of many); the problem here is about their perception of things. So long as they think it's going to be a boring lecture that doesn't apply to them and which they're not interested in hearing (and there are many things about this that can be wrong, but that's not the point), of course they're going to conclude that it'd be a waste of time. I'm sure we all can think of a number of better ways to waste our time than with something qualifying as a boring lecture we don't care about, so it's something I can understand even if I think they're wrong.
And hey, free beer usually works everywhere! :^)
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To be fair, there are a ton of regulations concerning work hours but companies are not in the least worried about respecting them for white collar workers (which sometimes end up with people in my sister's team working 70-80 hours weeks while being paid for 40 hours despite having a "contract" that promises double pay for weekends and hours after 8pm, and/or vacation time as a compensation) but somehow they are now worried about sexual harassment because of a new law that makes companies liable in case of harassment in the workplace.
So long as they think it's going to be a boring lecture that doesn't apply to them and which they're not interested in hearing it.
For sure, and I get that, and I hope the conversation in groups is productive for everyone, men and women because I truly believe that there are men who need to be able to ask what's ok and what's not (it seems pretty straightforward to me but I have sisters lol) because they are honestly confused and don't want to mess up, and I think hearing some of the stories from the women who have already been subject to those situations will help.
Of course the partners won't have to participate and at least two of them are total pigs so I hope somebody is giving them a private lesson in respecting their co-workers. Last year two of them (both in the sales department) actually "jokingly" discussed in a taxi on the way to a client meeting if the co-worker who was with them might be good in bed or not. I mean... wtf. If it was two gay guys discussing in front of them whether they'd give good head, I'm sure they'd see why it's not ok. And they barely knew her, it's not as if she was a friend and they were actually joking because they thought she'd think it was funny, and went too far.
So yeah, that's why it's important everybody shows up.
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but somehow they are now worried about sexual harassment because of a new law that makes companies liable in case of harassment in the workplace
Oh, that explains a lot. :)
actually "jokingly" discussed [...] if the co-worker who was with them might be good in bed or not
I was struggling to find a way to react to that until I remembered this pic. I think it serves that purpose nicely.
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Heh get me three tickets on your space ship outta here. I'll cook for free.
Seriously though, I'm just happy that the company (and others) are trying to change that culture, even if it's because they're afraid of litigation. It's a good step forward.
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That's my point, when you admit the wast majority has nothing to do with it, but you would tell them: "hey, come and let's talk about sexual harassment"? They would say: "why me?" Why don't they select that few and have a one-on-one talk with them, or if it's more severe, take disciplinary actions? I've never been a fan of collective punishment. And after all, it turns out it's just for show, to cover the company's ass.
Ok, you would go to discuss smoking breaks, because it annoys you. But some others wouldn't, because they don't smoke, don't care, it doesn't affect them or didn't notice that. It's simple as that.
You still don't get how can other people have different views and opinions, maybe because you don't have an open mind? I don't think I could do much about that.
Finally, back to your question. Yes, I randomly dropped by, but not to "troll people posting in the thread" - where did that came from, I don't know - I just simply replied to a post on the last page. I indeed read the title, but again, I only replied to your post and not even mentioned the OP.
Obviously, you know what I care about. My bad that I tried to start a conversation in an open forum, I should know better.
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I get your point, I promise. But I feel concerned about my colleagues feeling unsafe in their work place so "why me?" is not a good enough excuse. It's not a punishment, it's a conversation about something that should be worrying everyone. Those guys, they have girlfriends, sisters, mothers, daughters even...
And no it's not just for show. The reason they're doing it is that companies just became liable under the law in case of harassment so that's the reason they're doing it but they mean to make the place safer for everyone and by the way, men can get harassed too.
You still don't get how can other people have different views and opinions, maybe because you don't have an open mind? I don't think I could do much about that.
Lol man if you're trying to get a rise out of me, you should try someone else. And that's the oldest trick in the book. I don't fall for diversion.
Not understanding why people are closed-minded doesn't make you closed-minded. It's not that I don't get them having "different opinions", it's that I don't get them not having any kind of opinion about it at all. If they were all hiding because they all feel guilty about being jerks, I'd get it (and maybe it's the problem too, I don't know, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt) but not caring about people you work with, and not caring about situations in the future that might involve them, I don't get, sorry if that make me "closed minded" lol
Obviously, you know what I care about. My bad that I tried to start a conversation in an open forum, I should know better.
And yet you've been spending days explaining to me why men shouldn't care about sexual harassment unless they're perpetrators. Shows how much you care.
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yeah that was expected.
if it was a meeting to discuss about "not smoking during work", most people would go or at least they wouldn't complain if it's mandatory. but if it's about harassment they cry about political correctness, sjw and feminism. 🤦♀️
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Yeah... the stronger sex. I just love guys who keep whining about how "SJW" and "snowflakes" keep whining lol
But honestly if they're worried about being considered "rapists" and predators, then they should be showing up. If only to say "this is not me" or even "I don't know how to talk to women who work with me because I'm worried I'll offend them", which really, you know, I don't get either but I've heard guys say that so I'm saying "it's a conversation, show up and say our piece or just stfu!"
Curious to see how the next phase is going to go. And yeah here, you can bet more people would have showed up about smoking lol
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I'm a male and self identify as an imperfect ally. Why? because if this was simple and easy, we wouldn't have to deal with any of it; there'd be well defined laws, social constructs that everyone adheres to and we wouldn't have history to back up a lot of the concerns/issues we have today.
We have laws from the country where I am to prevent domestic abuse from affecting the workplace (ie. work = safe place, and we'll do all we can to keep you safe from domestic abuse) Our laws on sexual harassment could be better but they cover the majority.
So I get it when some folks see all of this as dog-piling SJW/radical feminism, as most places are aware of inequality and we all have this general understanding to not be assholes to each other.
I also like to compliment women (strangers, friends, colleagues, senior executives that could get me fired), but I'd like to say it's to all women, regardless of who they are. We (men/women) try to support each other and we want to create a better workplace where we all feel we can do our best. Why? - because we have a lot of work to get done, and I don't need people to worry about other things or fear for their safety. My compliments are sometimes well received and sometimes just plain fail, no matter how well-intentioned they are. (again, i'm for women's/workplace equality, I just don't want to forget i'm also a heterosexual male - imperfect ally)
Having said all that - how would people feel if someone you knew was being harassed and/or sexually harassed? If it's a colleague, sure shrug it off and get them disciplined. What if it's a friend? What if it's your friend's sister, or your sister, wife, close friend? What if it was you?
Every workplace has all sorts of training, why not just chalk it up to another training course?
- This is how you don't get injured at work,
- This is also how you don't mistreat each other at work.
The response to yet another training should be....oh this is dumb, I know how to not get myself killed at work and conversely not also sexually harass my peers....can we somehow improve upon the training process?
We also have black history month, other cultural themed events, health awareness, charity month(s) - we could think of these meetings as part of harassment awareness month(s)...with lame slogans that supposedly fixes everything "if you see something, say something"
I agree - free beer at most meetings would help attendance, unless the meeting is about how not to be drunk at work...but the goal is to at least get folks to be a bit more honest/open.
So why not push for it? If it's a regulatory thing, or just some company wide policy, own it all and push for the meetings, have it covered by the employer for loss hours/wages, and possibly a catered lunch (with cookies). What's the company gonna do? Not honor an employee initiative to support and celebrate women? To not make women/everyone feel safe at the work place? Just repackage the message and make it seem like it was their idea and show them how great it is. The worst is you may get a free lunch, the best case scenario you get more women who want to join the company because they feel safe, work their asses off and help you out with your daily grind. If I'm stuck at work and need to do work X hrs/day, I'd rather do it with more women next to me.
I don't think anyone's goal for these meetings is to "punish" anyone and sure, they may have a difference of opinions so come in with an understanding that folks will just have varying degrees of perception and viewpoints. (ie like this whole thread...)
And if you're going to be an imperfect ally (someone's gonna troll me..) - then go all the way...I enjoy complimenting women on their attire, and so must share the compliments to my male coworkers/friends by complimenting them on their nice pants / hair cuts while getting a weird look in response. It's a reminder to myself and my colleagues that I occasionally break HR policies, but I do it equally, and what I'm doing can be considered harassment and I'm just an arse sometimes...but at least I acknowledge it and let's talk about it, over (free) lunch...and beer.
Out of curiosity, how many women did show up for the training/discussion? Also 65% is pretty precise, i'm guessing this company is trying to even their gender ratios? Have they considered poaching colleges and training from within?
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[Hollow Knight](https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/eYZDe/) Lv3 | Corran | November 4
[HITMAN™: THE COMPLETE FIRST SEASON [Prologue + Episode 1-6 + Bonus Episode]](https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/nPkD7/) Lv3 | Corran | November 4
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[Tropico 5](https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/g20Cg/tropico-5) Lv1 | canis39 | November 6
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I'm so glad this thread is still here <3
Here's a song that's kind of related: Fire Drills (I may have posted this before, not sure if it was out already before I left here)
Also
[RUINER](https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/t601T/ruiner) Lv1 | nellyneko | November 4
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Do you want to come over to my place and feed your beaver some wood?
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Bump, Because Harassment should not be taken lightly and speak out to those around you if you are bothered by anyone. <3
Warmest Regards, Cruse~
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🌟 Giveaways (moved to top for convenient leeching 😁):
If you want to share giveaways, please use this template:
copy everything inside the ` (even the opening/closing `grave accents`), edit and and paste it in your reply
Please use the format provided above! It's easier for me to copy-paste multiple giveaways in this thread. 🐤
It will take me a few days to update the list. To avoid having your giveaway not "showcased" set its duration to more than 5 days (unless you don't care, it's up to you).
Because I'm tired of getting catcalled and watching others in the street receive the same treatment, I decided to share some information with everyone in SG hoping that they can stop doing it and/or talk to their friends to make them reconsider their behavior.
Street harassment is unwanted and unwelcomed public attention, most often directed at women, which is demeaning and damaging. It’s not a private matter but one that should concern everyone.
If you have trouble empathising with strangers, then think about your mother, sister, or girlfriend. Would you enjoy watching people catcalling and telling them nasty things? How do you think they would feel about it?
On an average day I go out twice and I get at least one guaranteed catcall. On weekends or when I go out, for example to a club, it gets worse because groups of people feel more empowered to do so.
A few months ago I was walking with a friend and one guy said things and started to follow us. After a while it ended with me turning around and pepper-spraying his face, then running away in case he could fight back. This is the kind of violence it generates.
We had a rough rest of the day and were shaken up. I didn't enjoy doing that at all, but he had to be stopped. I also like to think the guy didn't enjoy it either.
So in the end, what did he achieve? Nothing.
Edit
OK, I'm gonna clear this up since some people like to assume things just to blame me for defending myself.
For the backward people, this was in june when I wasn't wearing "provocative shorts and t-shirts" clothes. These are the "nice compliments" I got amongst others i don't even want to repeat here and/or I want to forget:
hey girl nice butt
does your friend wanna F with me too?
hey reply bitch
come here lesbos!
GONNA EAT YOUR ASS
Walked one block with that guy which was 1 meter away from us. He wasn't shouting from the other side of the street, he wasn't half a block away, he wasn't sitting in the sidewalk. He was right behind us.
He got warned to leave us alone during the whole 1-block fast-paced walk. I didn't stop to "discuss" because I'm not a 1.9 meters 120kg guy, so I'm not putting my friend and I at risk at 8:30pm in the street.
You read the "You're not alone" thread?
Well, most of the stuff that I shared about me is linked directly to an experience related to this, but I wasn't walking with a friend and there were two guys instead of one following me. You can guess what happened next since I wasn't able to defend myself.
But of course, street harassment is harmless and nothing else can go wrong, nor it can trigger unhappy memories from past experiences.
Think a bit before judging others so quickly assuming they overreact when they feel in danger.~
I know I probably won't convince anyone catcalling to stop by posting this (it doesn't hurt to try), but if your friends or co-workers do it, you can persuade or talk to them and see if they get it. There's nothing worse than being in a group of friends and allowing them to act like idiots.
It's disgusting and demeaning, stop it. You're hurting people with your actions and makes you look like a fool.
❤️️ FAQ, in case you're gonna post one of these comments I get all the time.
- But some women like to be catcalled!
Yes, there's also men that like to get hit in the face with a hammer. So using the same logic, I should go out and hit all men with a hammer in hopes they enjoy it?
- Don't be so sensitive, ignore it.
No, it reaches a point it can't be ignored. It's not an isolated issue once per month or in certain situations so you can avoid it. It also affects me a lot depending on my mood, so when you feel like crap and you get catcalled, things get worse.
- So you want others to come to your rescue when some stranger catcalls you? That will end up with me getting in a fight!
I'm not asking people to fight for me, just them to stop doing it, spread the word, and discourage people in their group of friends from being disrespectful.
- If you don't want to get catcalled, dress appropriately!
1: Don't blame the victim.
2: I dress as I please. It's my body, not someone else's.
3: It doesn't matter if it's winter and I'm wearing a jacket, or summer with shorts and a t-shirt. Some people will be idiots anyway and say things.
- I bet you like it when a handsome guy catcalls you!
Irrelevant. I expect respect from everyone.
- What about men? They also get harassed!
I'm very aware guys also get harassed by both men and women, but this thread is about girls. Feel free to create another thread for that issue, and I will support it.
- So this is just a misandrist rant!
It's not. If you feel targeted by anything I said, then it's not because you're a man, it's because you actions ressemble what it's said here.
- Meh, it could be worse.
It could be worse, but it SHOULD be better. Also, normalizing this behavior makes it even more painful for victims.
- Women also catcall!
I never said they don't, but for each woman that catcalls me, i get 500 guys. So the issue at hand is the one I shared.
- This thread offends me!
That tells a lot about you. Log off, take your time, and think about it.
- This thread is inappropriate for SG, please close and delete it!
Go tell that to all other threads about awareness, politics, religion, sports, disasters, etc.
💙 Some info and articles:
Stop Street Harassment
Wikipedia definition
Documenting women's stories of street harassment
Why we need to take street harassment seriously
Dutch woman faces down her catcallers by posting selfies with them
💚 Videos:
Au bout de la rue (Court-métrage) - france
10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman - usa
Woman is filmed walking London's streets for secret documentary - uk
Male actor dresses as woman to experience sexual harassment - egypt
Sons React to Their Moms Getting Catcalled - usa
💛 And some pictures:
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