Other than some bullying in elementary school, I haven't been harassed. I think the same is true for most men I'm familiar with, but it could be that men in general are less willing than women to tell about such incidents. This might make the gap (in reported incidents) even bigger than it probably is.
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I'm sorry to hear that you were harassed. That's awful, and I hope you're okay.
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I got death threats from two guys and several women propositioned me in one night just last weekend while I was working. Oddly, I received all of them for the same thing - asking people to back away from the client.
Harassment is pretty much an average day of work for me.
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I'm a pimp.
Kidding, of course. One of my jobs is personal security.
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Well, as I am apparently quite handsome... it happens to me (by gay men) but not to the point of feeling harassed, so it makes me laugh.
And it really depends on region you live in. It can go from recurrent or sometimes to nearly zero interactions of that kind (apart compliment)
But I understand, how harassed girls could feel.
Now, I have previously worked in a (al)mostly female environment always complaining about their husband, female patron saying only worth male was her sons, etc... meh o_o
Also, I have discussed with several female friends that told me (unrelated to my previous work) they prefer to work with male workmates rather than female ones...
Also, in the mean time I have kept a news article talking about domestic violence to men.
Those are much less numerous than violence to women, but when it happens he is often criticized or denied.
And fathers don't get custody of the children most of time. (in France)
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Also, "in evil advocate", as men are made differently, and get visually sexually excited more easily than women, the current trend is quite "natural" (even if current extremes are not wanted).
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Some of the comments here are nice examples why other men probably don't want to share their stories. Men being harassed is just considered a joke.
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it could be a coincidence, but all the ones making fun of them are also men, not women.
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Talked about this problem with a friend once. He was a bit angry at me when I mentioned, that it's usually other men who do not take harrassment, attacks and even rape (by a woman) serious if a man's the victim.
I didn't say this to anger him though, it was just my experience.
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i don't like to sound cliche, but that's what patriarchy and *machismo* culture do to men. this article has some very valid points
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Great article ö.ö
Too bad that feminism today is so twisted sometimes. I don't have a problem with admitting that I'm a feminist, but a lot of people assume that you have to hate men and be awfully aggressive towards them. And that's so incredibly stupid.
It was always confusing when one of my cousins didn't have a doll, although he loved playing with my dolls when he came to visit. Or that men can't show too many emotions because "real men do not cry". That's so wrong! Stupid and wrong. And sad.
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it's the same problem with most movements when there's a bunch of extremists. religion, race, etc, all get bad reputation because of a handful of crazy idiots.
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Sad, but true ._.
It's strange how a loud minority can ruin so much when they're negative and aggressive, but a more tame majority has to struggle so hard to achieve something good.
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I hope you not want see my words as an attack on you or females in general. I hope you know me good enough to know that i not mean my words this way.
It's very easy....
Education at home, around your house and later in the school too tell you that a boy have to be strong. He should not cry (in germany they call it "indianheart knowns no pain").
In a boygroup give it a hierarchic. Very easy... the strongest is at the top. The one's that don't show pain. Feelings are weakpoints that can be attacked and must be hidden to avoid attacks on that weak points. Each one that stand on a high hierarchic position have a "good life". Each one at the bottom of that hierarchic have it much harder.
With the girls the same. Each one at top of that hierarchic have it much easyer to get a female partner. When you are more the small computer nerd you are not soooo successfull^^. Sure i talk by this from younger girls/females but that is later not soooo different. I give you examples.
I was a very helpfull, nice, shy guy.... good enough for all helping, as the best friend but not for a relationship. In short i was to nice.
Many years later i dropped the shyness mostly and was very much more direct, much more dominant, made clear what i want and the females chased after me.
I was nearly 10 years the guild and Alliance Leader of a very well known german guild/(europe)alliance (7 years holding a town on the worldmap without speedruns, exploiting anything or any other "gray" stuff) in Guildwars 1. That means around 80 members in my guild and around 800 members in the alliance -average over that 10 years-.
The females looked much more on me as the Alliance + guild leader, after that on the other guild leaders, after that on the officers (yes it is really so easy). So a male member had lesser chances then officers and leaders.
Might attracts females -very much^^- (not all but the most).
My experience is that nearly all woman want a nice guy, that is lovely, helpfull, romantic, soft, can talk with them for hours, that is a gentleman, can cook, make poem and on the other hand they want a male that is strong, a shoulder to lean at, a guy that grab her hairs, bite in her neck and take her as it give no tomorrow.
Only a few man can fullfill that -but not much- (i can :-P).
The difficulty is that the male often not know at which time the female want which part from him.... because clear/direct speech is not the strong side of the most womens ^^
And females try, nearly ever, to change the guy to the "dream man" they ever had in there imaginations.
The strange thing is... when you changed to that man of her dream you are not more interesting because you do that only because she want's it and not because you want it.
When she want go with you in a (cinema) movie. Short talking and you see both want go in a complete other movie. After a while of discussion you say ok let us go in your movie. Maybe because you love her or maybe only that she is not pissed on and you have your peace -or less talking-. As man you think yeah plus points earned. But you are sooo wrong^^. Because she starts than the "you do it not because you want it, you do it only because i want it" and then she refused your offer.... -so each way you go is WRONG- (first rule when you interact with females ... you are always the ass :DDDDD lol)
Mostly education, at home, are done by females (only as a sidenote).
Later females are angry that the male's can't talk over feelings and be so much "man".
Males are more logical ..... Exploration/Identification -----> solve the problem -----> Finish
Woman are more Exploration and Identification of 4734734 things that must not be linked together ----> think over 6436433 other things .. maybe 5445 possible solving possibilitys ----> question other's what they think over it ----> again explorations, play 20 ways in the imagination -----> Finished NEVER full only a part of the 45354545 thoughts they hav at the same time.
Yes i write it funny because i am a funny guy with a tend to sarcasm, very dark humor, irony and not mainstream humor. But the core in it i really mean.
From my line of sight it give very much woman that lure with "maybe" situations. As example the guy should pay in the disco .... she dance around, presents her boobs.. and then she wonder why the guy want's at any time more. Her signals was that way for a big part of the guys in a disco.
I don't accept it when a guy take anything he is not given freely but i can understand why many not see the line between a "taunting/lure" and the real thing.
Try to go in a tiger cage with meat in your hand and say him he get only a bit of that ...
The most of the german feminists are hardcore lesbs (look as example on Alice Schwarzer -she fighted for equal rights and that was good but after reaching that the complete thing changed in a bad way-).
I can say it very clear .... most of them act like a**holes against men's.
That help from my point of view not really the feminist move.
I have no problems with lesbs and gays, mostly had few of them under my friends. I had only problems with fanatic, extremist people (not from interest in which way fanatic/extremist -it never leads to anything positive/good-)
Feminists, in germany, want often only -more- rights for womens. They DON'T want equal rights for all genders.
Easy example: They want the right to join in the army when they want BUT want not the duty to go to the army (as men's must) or make a duty time for healthcare/cooking/learn to raise childs (whatever).
In Germany we have now a free army, nobody have the duty to join. But as i was younger i must made 13 month work in healthcare (or go 11 month to the army). I had no choice. That's the big difference.
And the german feminists wants mostly the gender equality. And that is only one thing. STUPID.
A female is different to a male. And that is good !. She have other hormones, she think in a other way, she can, mostly, talk better, can use feelings better -only as examples-. And the males are better at logical thinking, have more strenght, are more direct, more "aggressiv", more focused on the optical things.
For me a acting as a unit (together) of the female and the male is the ideal.
Combine the stronger sides and compensate the weaker sides
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"Males are more logical"
"Woman are more Exploration and Identification"
Sorry, but... citations needed. (photo attachment was supposed to go here)
"Later females are angry that the male's can't talk over feelings and be so much "man"."
Maybe it's a difference of culture or kinds of people we talk to, but females I know are fine with men talking about their feelings, and even appreciate it. It's usually the males who don't like it when other males start talking about their feelings or being emotional (that is, any emotion that is not anger), because other males would start calling them sissies, gays, etc., just generally making fun of them. I've encountered this first-hand in an all-boys school when a classmate started tearing up.
I can't say anything about feminism in Germany, but in our country, we're STRUGGLING to even give women basic rights to their own bodies: no abortion, even if they were raped or even if they got pregnant when they are a minor. They were blamed for that. They are forced to carry the shame while the guy often gets away scot-free "because he's being a man." Women are forced to stay with abusive husbands because no divorce, and annulment is prohibitively expensive for most people. The reverse of course is also true: men are forced to stay in a marriage with an abusive wife, but that's why feminists and humanists here fight for divorce. Meanwhile, it's usually other males are making fun of abused husbands for being a henpecked husband.
And your comparison of male = strong and female = weak in your last sentence is baseless.
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you cut out only a part and want a better explanation....
look on the complete:
Males are more logical ..... Exploration/Identification -----> solve the problem -----> Finish
Woman are more Exploration and Identification of 4734734 things that must not be linked together ----> think over 6436433 other things .. maybe 5445 possible solving possibilitys ----> question other's what they think over it ----> again explorations, play 20 ways in the imagination -----> Finished NEVER full only a part of the 45354545 thoughts they hav at the same time. <<
It needs nothing... its a fact that men's think more logical.
I don't search out all the science studies over that.
When you think it is not true that men's think more logical please search for them by yourself or trust my explanation not.
You misunderstood my sentence "Later females are angry that the male's can't talk over feelings and be so much "man".
I wrote above that the most education at home would be made by the mother. So the mother is co-responsible that the boys grow up to men's that can't talk over feelings.
And later other females are angry over the result..
I never said male = strong (besides from body strenght) or female = weak (have i wrote really so unclear ? thinking).
I wrote "For me a acting as a unit (together) of the female and the male is the ideal.
Combine the stronger sides and compensate the weaker sides"
Each gender have stronger and weaker sides (strenght and talking skills as examples) and all people have too stronger and weaker sides. And for me a COMBINATION is the ideal.
I don't want a female that is equal to a male and i don't want to be equal to a female :o)
To the other things:
Sorry to hear that it is so worse in your country with the rights/divorce and stuff.
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Saying "men are more logical than women" is like saying "women are more logical than men". Anyone who claims that should provide citation. Otherwise, it's just an opinion, and opinion can be very wrong. (like the opinion that earth is flat)
You make a lot of non sequitur fallacies. For example, how is it a mother's fault that men are not talking about their feelings? Are they the only people around them? Don't their friends force them to bottle up their feelings by making fun of them? Are mothers forcing their sons to bottle their feelings up and "man up"? Do you think a father raising their sons on their own won't tell them to "man up" and bottle their feelings?
"I never said male = strong (besides from body strenght) or female = weak (have i wrote really so unclear ? thinking)."
It is implied from your statement: "Combine the stronger sides and compensate the weaker sides".
But yes, I might have misunderstood your sentence, and I apologize for that.
I agree that genders have their differences, but I don't think strength or talking can be relegated to one or the other. I know women who are stronger than me and men who have better talking skills than some women. But I digress.
We may have differences in understanding what "equal" or "equality" means. I want a more equal society where males and females are allowed to show their emotional side without it being seen as a weakness, a society where male and female abusers can be divorced and the victim, again male or female, can take custody of their child.
I do recommend you read scientific literature on these things. For example, Psychology Today has an article about how the differences are caused by society ingraining certain values for women and men or how intelligence cannot be measured accurately so making a claim either way is moot.
Also note that science is descriptive, not normative. Science describes that gravity forces things thrown "up" to go "down", but it doesn't say we can't go and fly an airplane. :)
--
Thank you. Progressive groups here are working hard to give women reproductive rights. We are hoping it gets better.
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Come one ...
again you wrote long sentences but picking only a part of the sentences from me.
I wrote: "...the mother is co-responsible..."
CO-RESPONSIBLE
I don't know how you can read (again) anything else than what i wrote.
We must not speak over "is a man stronger or a female".
Sure it give A FEW that are different but the mass is equal to that what i said.
When you search for hairs in the soup do it but without me.
I do not lead a discussion on this level.
I am guilty for my words and intentions, not for that what you (want) made out of it
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I pointed it out because you singled out the mother AND the women getting angry. If the mother is co-responsible with everyone else, then what is your point of singling her out from the others? Your entire argument was about blaming the mother AND other women for men's fear of showing emotions.
Mostly education, at home, are done by females (only as a sidenote).
Later females are angry that the male's can't talk over feelings and be so much "man".
If I rephrase that, that would be "fathers are co-responsible", which would mean the same thing, but it gives undue and completely unnecessary attention to the father.
I write "long sentences" and "picking only a part" because otherwise I'd be copying entire paragraphs, most of which are not relevant to the discussion. And I don't think there's a rule that I can only respond with the same amount of words that you wrote when responding.
Also, I admit I'm having trouble understanding your sentences. A lot might have been lost in translation.
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-so each way you go is WRONG- (first rule when you interact with females ... you are always the ass :DDDDD lol)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRCS6GGhIRc
(best part: ~2min20)
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Personally I think the best part is at 5m49s till the end:
For these women, the calculus was simple.
"The physical abuse, verbal abuse, you shouldn't be hitting one another. I was concerned about their safety."
And these women tell us the fact that the abuse is a woman makes no difference. What matters is that someone needed help.
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Sure but that's the exception, not the majority case. Even the cop they interviewed was biased.
I'd very much agree with Mully on that one:
that's what patriarchy and machismo culture do to men
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It's not even that. If you as a man would step in to defend a man against a woman, you'd automatically become the aggressor in most peoples eyes.
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Also I can't find that article anymore, but I remember reading about a case where a man who called the cops about an abuse by his wife ended up getting arrested (it got cleared up eventually, but still, the common bias is "if man+woman fight, then man must be the evil party")
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I think it's even common policy of law enforcement in the US, but don't quote me on that one because I'm too lazy and probably not proficient enough to come up with a source
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Back in my 20s when I was in university I traveled by train in the evening and it was a rush hour and some ~35yr old woman touched my butt and I thought she's trying to steal from me and moved away but couldn't go far because of the other people but she followed me 2 steps and touched my butt again and I turned around to look at her stern but she smiled and winked and that's when I realized what's happening.
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made me scoff - decent way to react, when you're not really being threatened ...
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Men are constantly harassed, assaulted and raped except they don't know it neither do they mind. For the simple reason that men are never approached by women unless they're particularly handsome/tall/muscles, rich or popular.
And I'm not kidding: none of my male friends or acquaintances are ever approached (except casually by gay guys) by women, until one of them became rich and the other became a popular local artists. The result is they're now constantly being harassed, assaulted (like girl touching their ass or waist to see if they have a nice body, and sometimes technically rape since they say 'no' several time, try to push back the girl (well they have girlfriends) and the girl still constrains, seduces them and grabs their dick...
I remember a friend in highschool who was kind of the "handsome and tall but nice/naïve guy", and boy was he constantly objectified, harassed and assaulted. And because he's somehow timid, reserved, he did mind but never knew how to react.
The thing is that there's a complete extreme injustice, like we're living in satan-land (which often happens in times of crisis or before wars, in fact look-up pre-WWII feminism...), men despite being constantly raped, assaulted or harassed but only for superficial reasons and status, and lots of times being morally assaulted, manipulated and abused especially when they're weak minded, popular but naïve or when they lose their job, except they're not aware of it because as male not only can you not complain otherwise you're seen as not being manly both by society and women, but also there's not even a social or legal case for justice.
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an older guy said he wanted to suck me while I was walking to the university and followed me a few blocks
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sorry to hear that happened to you. I don't recall it happened to me, but I been bullied before in school when I was younger.
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I generally only get attention or am touched in public if it's night, there's a loud group of girls and I'm in town around the clubs; and even this was the rare occurence. It really depends on my mood, but sometimes it's annoying to deal with stuff like that - when they're all giggly and drunk. But since I'm rarely in those kinds of settings anymore, I don't really get or see it day to day.
I will also note that I sometimes get things shouted at me by men, but that's not harassment, haha. I live next to a stadium and it's usually sport-related yelling.
The only other times I'm stopped in public are generally positive experiences (from both men and women - for example when walking dogs) or people asking for change :P
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Tying this back into gaming, just yesterday a former level developer at Naughty Dog tweeted his firing was in response to him reporting being sexually harassed at the studio to HR. Polygon has a story on this, which includes links to the original Twitter statements and Naughty Dog's response.
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Wow, considering they fired him so quickly, it doesn't sound like they had any intention of investigating it to find out the truth. That's terrible.
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It really depends on what the people thinks of being harassed.
I got some ´´women propositioned me´´ cases for a long time and well some of them can be considered harassment. Any type of violence, insistence when you say NO (without hurting people with bad words), bullying for saying NO, vulgar words about you, and others... can be considered being harassed.
The world culture shows only the girls being harassed because it´s more frecuent (we can see a lot of new movements in expansion), and also, because it sells more in that time (don´t attack me for that phrase please :P). But that not means that mens cannot be harassed.
Also there are a lot of jokes that the people say if you say that you got harassed and you are a men. They say sometimes that you are less man for not accepting a girl and other things just because you not like one girl (and you like another maybe, or whatever).
Feel free to talk n_n
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As your neighbour at the south (MX) i can recall some 'unofficial' stories by army and police officers, about human traffic, and other nasty things, that happens to people, are pretty sad.
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it's really weird that people only want to express and make aware of one side but not the other and when we do, we get called names.
I wouldn't really say it weird. It's how most people are raised and I'd even go so far as to say it's probably an ingrained part of being human. Still, a shame that many are not able to engage neocortex to a higher degree when thinking about things like this though.
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weird to me..maybe not to you. So it it based on perspective
Certainly. It's unfortunate that people have a tendency to ignore, or even ridicule, male suffering. I'm just saying that I believe I can understand the reasons behind this.
Edit: Took the time to read your whole response during my lunch break. The part with the dog actually made me tear up a bit despite having adopted a rather stoic demeanor. There are plenty of bad actors on both "sides" and I feel it's unfortunate that people have a tendency to adopt tribalistic behaviors with topics like this. From your opinions on this I assume you might have seen The Red Pill by Cassie Jaye already, but if not you should check it out.
Hope you had a good nights sleep :)
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I am not very tribal..
I fear I may be expressing myself a bit too ambiguously. I didn't intend to suggest that you are, just that people, in general, are showing tendencies towards a tribalistic behaviour to a higher degree than one would want in situations like these.
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I'm feeling pretty balanced for going through such trials in my life
I wouldn't find it hard to believe if someone told me we need a bit of struggle in our lives to find balance, and gratitude in life. In my experience, it's never the people who had difficult circumstances to overcome that are unhappy or complains the most.
Edit: I feel I butchered that last sentence but I'm also not able to find a better way of expressing myself at the moment. I hope it's able to get my message across relatively undistorted at least
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Bump, wish you healing from your wounds, men or women the same.
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As described here
I created this to share that could happen to us too, much more less frequent in my case, but still need to be said.
No details, just as tittle says.
Could you share any experience?
Some giveaways.
Added one free entry for everybody u4F94
BzbvLtRR
Bionic Commando | lv1 | october 22nd
I'll close this,
Forum Is becoming an unpleasant experience for forum readers
Community is not self aware to grow up and discuss issues in civilized manners
I know there are good people out there, but they are a few, they're becoming extinct
I came here the year I almost killed myself, world is chaotic, and on SG forum I found some peace, reading people from around all the fucking world, being a bit more 'mature' from other sites, my thoughts are for this community, we are going deep down into a toxic hole
*Don't worry i will not suicide (yet joke) Decided it last year, world is chaotic and confusing wish I could have a fucking manual for it, and people is a big mystery for me, I had been reading a lot about psychology, sociology, group dynamic, anthropology, and I'm a fucking IT guy, seems our brain, and our society is not evolved enough, me as child believed the contrary.
Edit> moved from offtopic to general, added thread purpose, deleted silly joke about my home country
Edit: added GA LV0+
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