Interesting, but it's not surprising. I'm sure a lot of people who spread hate about games end up buying them anyways. It's like:
"What a terrible game. They are stealing lots of money from people and that pisses me off..............................................................soI'llbuyitwhenit'scheaper."
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+1 I agree 100%
Most people say "That games sucks there is so much wrong with it it's not even finished blah blah blah" yeah, after that they go ahead and buy it just for the purpose to cry about it even more. If you don't like it don't buy it! Watch some reviews and gameplay maybe read something about the game if it doesn't make you interested in the game don't buy it! But as it has been said most people buy games just left and right without even thinking about it then they cry about how much is sucks.
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Kotaku is my number one source for gaming journalism.
Thanks Kotaku!
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Originally linked it, but figured it deserved it's own thread-- There is so much wrong in that line of thinking
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You can conclude that gaming is full of under-developed personalities and haters by just reading through comments here on this thread, let alone other major websites that revolve around gaming. I guess that people think what they say online doesn't matter, but it really does.
For instance, when a modder decides to create a mod of some game that he loves, but in the past he has insulted and hated the devs of some other game that he didn't like, he shouldn't be offended when the users of his mod go berserk at some mistake that he made during the modding process, and yet he does get offended because they're hurting where it hurts most - they're minimizing his effort and his work, ignoring his devotion to the project altogether because of a couple of bugs.
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I think it's sad enough that people make useless and hurtful comments like that in the first place, but it's even worse when I see comments in this thread and on that article defending them. I mean how can a game not being that good be that upsetting to someone that it makes them have to lash out like that? Even comments like "This game sucks" are useless and don't help anybody. Maybe if people realized that voting with their wallets and learning to communicate like adults were the ways to actually change the market rather than acting like an upset fifteen year old who isn't getting their way (no offense to fifteen year olds) we'd actually get something done.
Some of the excuses/justifications I see are horrible too (and I don't think half the people even read the article completely). The fact that anyone is trying to justify it is bad enough, but then I see comments like "grow some balls," "that's just the way the internet is," "he's just saying that because his games suck," and I can't help but wonder if some of you have ever been taught respect and manners, or if those are just alien concepts you use when you want to get something out of someone else.
I can't go anywhere in the gaming community it seems without seeing this (or similar) behavior, jump into a MP game and all you see is people bitching at each other for "sucking" or bragging/smack talking to the other team, go into any community hub and you're doubtless to see people bitching in the most immature of ways about something or other that the devs did or didn't do. Just makes me wonder how I was naive enough to once upon a time think the gaming community was cool, because it's pretty apparent nowadays it's a poisonous cesspool as a whole.
I just don't understand how it's so hard and revolting for people to at least try to be nice. No one is asking anybody to say every single game is good and great, but you can be more objective and less hateful when you find a game bad, that's all anyone is asking who shares the opinion of this dev. But I suppose that's too much to ask since most people seem to only care about themselves and are perfectly happy acting like animals :|
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I hate it and you're not a natural pink
IT'S ALL FAKE
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I am assuming it was a woman who wrote that article, or just a really "sensitive" guy...
I think the author is focusing too much on the unnecessary criticism.
Whoever wrote it is correct, there is A LOT of negativity on the internet, including the video game industry.
Do I feel sympathy for the author? NO. First world problems...
So you get involved in an industry that does nothing to further the evolution of our species in any way, and then get your panties in a bunch when people don't criticize a game in the fashion you prefer? GROW UP!
There are a lot of jerks out there who have no internet etiquette at all (netiquette as some call it) but are you really gonna lose sleep over that? Sorry, but I am a little bit worried as to how that person would survive in a real world situation.
Anyways, the last thing that I wanted to point out is that the hatred is all over my friends. Not just the video game industry (as funny as that sounds even saying). You would know this if you simply picked up a newspaper and looked at the atrocities being committed on a regular basis. People being hurt, murdered and tortured for an opinion or just for not being able to stand up for themselves.
Many of us have put in long work weeks, in jobs that require actual physical labour to produce such things as metal for you to make and play your video games on. Do we always get constructive criticism? NO!
Man, if you can't take some of the stuff that these little video game playing kids are saying, I guess you have never worked on a construction site or in a steel plant?!
Sounds as though the person who wrote this article has never had a physically demanding job or been abused by a boss, because if they had, they would see just how lucky they are to have a job in the video game "industry".
And lastly, I just want to say that the abuse does go both ways. There are many video game companies / workers who just look at these kids as dollar signs. They don't care about putting out a sub par product just to make their dollars. And the hype that goes into hooking these kids on this new "crack" seems sometimes a borderline form of brainwashing. Just like Hitler said "you gotta get them while they're young!".
I feel the video game companies are just as guilty, if not more, for what they are turning these kids into. So you release a game that involves picking up a gun and shooting someone in the head, release it to a 13 year old kid (oh yeah there's age restrictions, but you really think that stops them? my 13 year old brother owns the last 3-4 releases of Call of Duty) and then expect them to give a "well-mannered" review? HA! What planet do you even live on?!
As much as I do enjoy playing video games, I really couldn't care what happens to the video game industry. It would probably be a good thing for humanity if it died. Sorry if anybody can't handle that opinion.
So, I will go one step further video game creator guy... How about we all just stop buying video games? That solves your problem as you won't have to hear any negative / unwanted criticism, it solves my problem as my kids could use their time reading a book and learning something, and you could get a job that actually benefits humanity. WIN, WIN and WINNNN!
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I am assuming it was a woman who wrote that article, or just a really "sensitive" guy...
I am assuming it was misogynistic sexist who wrote this post...
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Whatever Sally, use all those over-sensitive words you've learned these days...
When you have nothing substantial to retort, resort to name-calling and slander.
Very informative debate you have raised there buddy!
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"name-calling and slander"?
Seriously, what exactly were you trying illustrate by starting your lengthy post with the line posted above?
Actually think about it.
If you were "just kidding around," or "I didn't mean it like that," then thanks for proving my point.
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No, I mean everything I said.
I am not exactly joking, but if you knew me in real life, you would know that I have a sense of humour about things. Especially things like video games that really hold no REAL WORLD importance.
With that being said, no true MAN that I know would be complaining that people aren't always telling them nice things. Just seems to me that the person who wrote this either has a vagina or is a really sensitive boy.
I'm not defending the uneducated critics who sink to the level of saying people should die over a video game, but my main point is:
PEOPLE ARE WAY TOO SENSITIVE THESE DAYS
Is that clear enough for you?
Thought that message would have been pretty clear in the novel I wrote above, but guess I was wrong! Sorry for the confusion!
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Wow, such empowering usage of a gif image you so eloquently googled!
Thank you for adequately displaying your level of intelligence...
Remember when you called me a misogynistic sexist?
That leads me to believe you are in fact a female yourself. Sorry if my words offended you and your sex.
But it's funny how women want to be considered equal and call men sexist when we make certain remarks. I find it funny because I have been groped and touched inappropriately by more than one woman on the job site. If it were me who did it, I would get "sexual harassment". You women seem to want to be "MORE EQUAL" than men.
I said it must be a woman or a sensitive guy. Are women not known to be sensitive?
And you call me a "misogynistic sexist"!
If you possessed a pair of balls, you and me would not get along!
At what point of humanity did we decide to tell our children it is OK to be weak? Because that is all you are doing when you nurture the decision this "anonymous author" made to come out and expose the beastly nature of humans and the plight of what video game developers must endure.
Wow is all I can say.
Good luck to you and and all the other "special" children...
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"With that being said, no true MAN that I know would be complaining that people aren't always telling them nice things."
good post neanderthal joe! now I must go drink pisswater and join mammoth hunt and then mate with my female so I too can be true MAN!!!
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mmm... pisswater...
Who let you in on the mammoth hunt, that's men only...
I am sad for the children who will have a father who is so easily upset by youtube comments...
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lol
I don't blame you...
There seem to be some really crazy people out there who are full of negative criticism!
No stalky for you ;)
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Awww, well thanks McJobless...
I really take that to heart!
Funny how those who stand up for the one complaining about name calling and threats are doing just the same to me for having an alternate opinion!
Humanity at it's finest right here folks!
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A) I haven't threatened you at all.
B) That's not the point I'm trying to make.
C) "Name Calling" wasn't the major issue in the article.
Your alternate opinion states that the first opinion is wrong and that the person is "CLEARLY" female and that because they don't have a "REAL" job, they shouldn't complain. I think your opinion makes you seem like a bit of an arsehole.
Anyone could have written that, and there's nothing to tell you what sex the person was. Working on games is just as stressful as working physical labour (I've done/doing both). Yes, it's a different type of stress, but at the end of the day ultimate it still hurts when people are becoming personally offended at your work and attempt to take it out on you.
Most people who work in physical labour don't have to worry about death threats, social engineers/hackers, and the work hours/deadlines are controlled by laws (at least here in Australia), so that you're never working an unsafe period of time. The same can't be said of game development.
You also assume games are useless and don't contribute to society in any meaningful way. I could say the exact same thing about Hotels, Clubs, Water Fountains and just about most construction work. Humanity is built on the premise that we need to be entertained. If we move forward, great, but people are more-or-less happy where they are now, provided they have something to distract them from the boringness of real life. Games do that, and now more than ever games are also being used to train and to heal.
Take your smug attitude and shove it right where it belongs.
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I agree a 100%.
May I just add something, it might be just me but I think that games are the highest form of entertainment there is and has been so for the last 15years or more.
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Taken directly from the second paragraph of the original article in discussion (which you probably did not read):
"But I don't think there's ever justification for the personalized negative attacks, the hate speech, and the borderline cruelty"
You called me an asshole, at least have the courage to stand by your words.
Taking a quote directly from my original post (which you obviously did not read):
"Whoever wrote it is correct, there is A LOT of negativity on the internet, including the video game industry."
I did not state the author is wrong, I stated they are correct.
I also did not say they are "clearly female". I'm basically saying they have female characteristics, like those of a mother, leading to believe me that their gender is female.
We will never know, because the author clearly doesn't stand by their word enough to actually let it be known who they are and what work they are associated with. Isn't that convenient? So that their works never come into question...
I also did not say it is not a real job, I said they are lucky to have a job like that. You know instead of being a sewage worker, or construction worker, or steel worker or anything else that directly benefits society.
Women are sensitive and protective of their children are they not? That's the main reason why my opinion is that it sounds like a female who wrote it.
Most men that I know say / are told some pretty harsh stuff, especially at work, and we just shrug it off. That's what a man does. A lot of men are in sports or the military and just come to accept that sometimes people say some harsh stuff and use it as motivation for their own success.
It's just hard for me to believe someone who has had a job involving manual / physically demanding labour wrote this. Especially since the criticism we labourers must hear is face to face. I mean remember, the author is reading the criticism on youtube or whatever.
You don't like what people have to say about your work? Either don't focus on that or get a new line of work buttercup.
Video games mostly are useless, they are merely a hobby or waste of time. Of course there are the educational video games and programs for children, but that is different. I doubt that Reader Rabbit is getting death threats. I also doubt the author works on those types of programs.
You said:
"Most people who work in physical labour don't have to worry about death threats, social engineers/hackers, and the work hours/deadlines are controlled by laws (at least here in Australia), so that you're never working an unsafe period of time. The same can't be said of game development."
If you actually believe that, it only proves you have most likely never worked physical labour. In a previous labour job, I worked 12 hours with one 30 minute break. That is against the law. Either you do it, or you will be replaced with someone who can. I feel as though we come from different planets.
You clearly have not taken time to read anything McJobless. Maybe you should spend more of your free time educating yourself instead of playing video games. You should be most angry at this guy, look what he did to you!
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Are you serious? Stereotyping Males and Females based on how they receive criticism? Are you saying that if thousands upon thousands of people constantly shited on your work, insulted you, threatened you, among other things, you wouldn't be personally hurt?
"Video Games are mostly useless" Ok. By that standard, books, television, movies, writing, communication, and any form of art or music is mostly useless. If it is not essential you the strict survival of the human body, why do we need it? For the mind?
Having a hardened heart and ignoring everything is not a good way to live, my friend.
Also, being a sewage worker, steel worker, or any of that shit is most likely easier than being a Game dev. It is the exact same work every day, consistent workload, consistent pay check, and generally easy to learn and moderately difficult to master. A Game dev on the other hand, may have to code tons of different things, produce art and music assets, work an untold number of hours a week with another job to pay the bills, have no consistent paycheck from the game, and it takes years to learn to do it decently right.
Plus, as an after thought, how does entertainment not contribute to society? If not say for books, television, games, movies, or if we want to go way back, public forums, would you want to work your menial job where you will eventually stagnate and have nothing else to gain form it besides a paycheck?
I'd tend to think not...
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Actually, I am stereotyping males and females for the way they handle criticism. Not how they receive it...
Everybody gets shit on at some point. It's called reality. Either suck it up, or don't. Live your life worrying about how people judge you your whole life.
If you are afraid of getting your feelings hurt, might as well NEVER leave your house as the world is full of assholes and other things that aren't gonna go your way. Sorry if you think I am an asshole. I will also apologize for the much meaner people than me out there, which at some point you will most likely meet.
And yes video games are mostly useless.
I am not talking about those other forms of entertainment which you listed. I did not say entertainment does not contribute to society. What I am saying, is that VERY FEW video games contribute anything to society. They would be the educational ones. The others are a hobby at best. Mainly though, they are a way to pass time.
Why don't you explain to me one way that a person would benefit a society by playing a video game?
Honestly, if it is a good reason, I will listen and agree with you... I just have a hard time thinking of one.
That is also funny when you say that a game developer's job is more difficult than a sewage worker, steel worker or "any of that shit". I literally think there are not many jobs that could be easier than sitting on your ass in front of a computer all day. Funny how you immediately disrespect a job that actually benefits people like you directly, and expect people to have respect for a game developer! See the balance of life?
If my life revolved around video games, I would hate my life. I like working for a living. You may call the jobs I listed as being menial, but those are the jobs that make this society function and has for many of generations. This whole video game thing only goes back less than 50 years. The only reason they get a pay cheque in the first place is because of people like me who go and work at my job that serves this community, to give them way more money than they most likely even deserve for a video game.
Do I have sympathy for a most likely over paid, sittin' on a computer all day, game developer? No.
Do I have sympathy for the guy in Africa lifting boulders all day for a buck. Yes.
First world problems.
I sleep like a baby every night because I earn every penny I make.
Plus, when my kids grow up they will know how to pick up a real shovel and grow themselves some real food.
Have fun in fantasy land!
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You're right that's just what it is. Fantasy land. Escapism. That's the point of a game. That's the point of a fictional story. That's the point of sports. That's the point of TV. That's the point of gossip. That's the point of doing anything that isn't work, sleep, or worry.
I can see some of the opinions you hold, but overall you're just making your argument by being loud and persistent.
I will start with saying the value of video games. Why should these people have a job in the first place? To put it simply: demand. People enjoy the entertainment that is produced, and it is produced for less cost than many other forms of entertainment. Individuals made this choice just as they make the choice not to go back to the 1600's and simply farm alone without the need of any steel workers or anyone outside their family for that matter. Now besides that there is a clear value for (many) video games which is the same to games in the past: they present a challenge which individuals participating in the game must overcome. In sports that's physical strength and skill, in videogames that is quick decision making, strategic thinking. In a world so large that minor increases in efficiency mean billions in profits, you tell me that training in critical thinking is useless.
The reason the developers job isn't necessarily that it is difficult, and I won't get into whether it is or not (note they go through different types of challenge in their work), but that the training required to do the job is rare (in comparison to other fields). In two weeks of conditioning they could work in construction, in two weeks of training most construction workers couldn't make a videogame. That isn't to say game developers are more important than an extraction or construction worker, but it is the reason behind their pay.
Finally, just because there are people being needlessly "hated" elsewhere doesn't mean it has to transfer into their industry. I do think the author misstated that other people don't get targeted in this way, but the fact that such an issue is broad doesn't mean it should be broader. Why does anyone who hasn't done something to deserve it have to go through death threats (or worse)? Sure there's a bigger issue, but that doesn't discredit the fact that the author has an issue that affects him(/her) and is attempting to address that.
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Thank you for at least taking the time to read and give a good reply...
You are correct, and I mostly agree with you.
There is a demand for these products and they do provide entertainment which contains its own value. As well, I am sure there is a big learning curve to be able to design such a product and does requires a certain level of skill.
Also it is totally a valid point is being raised by the author.
I just really dislike how the author makes it appear as though video game developers must endure things that nobody else is familiar with. If you break it all down, I consider them to be lucky to have a job like that. If they consider themselves so hard done by and think that they are not so lucky to have a job like that, then boo hoo for them, but it's hard for me to have much sympathy.
It makes them sound like a total whiner.
Again, the people who threaten others are the ones in the wrong.
But I have been threatened face to face with a guy with a gun, and that was a neighbour!
Is the solution to go write an anonymous blog about it, or actually take some sort of positive action?
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In the internet world an anonymous blog post can actually mean something. Sometimes. Who am I kidding nothing is going to stop these haters. But the occasional piece of hate mail that is sent out of anger instead of flaming/trolling may be stopped by simple humanization of the people who receive these messages.
FYI: going onto a forum and bashing something the forum is based upon tends to produce outrage (think of going to church and yelling Jesus is a lie). You also expressed your original point rather emotionally in a way that seemed you were complaining about your situation as much as the developer was. It'll be much easier to keep the ensuing conversation on topic if you stick to the relevant argument and save the personal stuff for later if you really need to bring it up. Or bring it up somewhere else.
I assume you know that to an extent, but whatever.
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If you are saying to ignore all hate, alright cool. If you are saying that everyone who reacts to hate and isn't a fucking statue is a girl what the hell is wrong with you.
These are the "baby's" of these devs. They spend countless hours working on and refining said games and often become personally attached.
Ask yourself this. Were you ever proud of a long and tough paper you wrote for school? Would you have been sad or pissed off if the teacher gave you a F, with her only explanation being it sucked or that she didn't like you?
Benefit society? Well despite the fact that you perceive that art doesn't benefit society, video games are one of the best ways to relive stress. The allow you to put all your pent up rage and frustration out on a digital plane where your actions don't affect the real world. You can play the hero and feel important, you can play the fighter who is a master of his art, etc.
A quote from the 'Understanding the Effects of Violent Video Games on Violent Crime' "Though there is evidence that violent video games cause aggression in a laboratory setting, there is no evidence that violent video games cause violence or crime. In fact, two recently published studies analyzed the effect of violent media (movies and video games) on crime, and found increased exposure may have caused crime rates to decrease." The decrease in violent crime in relation to violence in games is a direct result of the "incapacitation effect". Put simply, if you're inside playing games, you're voluntarily not outside committing crimes."
I'm sorry if you feel that a Game Dev's job is easy. A steel worker, for instance, learns how to put up, weld, and fix or remove steel right? That requires a certain amount of thought and physical strength and dexterity. This can be done in a few years and mastered relatively quickly. The field doesn't change much. Maybe a new technique or new materials to learn, but overall not much changes. This can take on average a few days to weeks to do a job and get paid, assuming the job isn't gov't contract or ginormous.
A game dev, on the other hand, has to learn to code, in one or more constantly evolving, constantly changing, languages, learn to create art and music assets or hire and manage employees to do this task, has to create dialog or a lack of dialog and make it fit contextually. They have to make their game work on as many machines as possilble, bug fix, and create add-ons if they want. Market their game, get it on a platform, such as Steam, or self publish. This process can take months to years, where no income will be made until the product is delivered, unless by kickstart or pre-order. Even then they still may not make money if it isn't successful.
And to top it all off, they have gruelingly long and unexpectable work weeks and possible second or third jobs. I have no idea where you have gotten the thought that these people make boat-loads of money.
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I am saying to ignore the haters.
You, as a human with intellect, can choose to an extent which comments to actually take seriously and which to not.
I am not saying that everyone who reacts that way is a woman, but I said leads me to believe it is a woman or a sensitive man. Either way, you are right, maybe someone will take that offensively so I apologize about that.
It reminds me of the kid that goes home to mommy and gets his mom to tell everyone "OK, that's enough, be nice guys".
Which is fine, if you want to raise your kids that way. To write an article every time their feelings get hurt and profess the cruelties of the world.
I also never claimed that art does not benefit society. Nowhere did I ever say that. Video games could be considered a form of art, I agree. I even did say that the educational video games can have a positive effect in society. But let us be realistic, most video games are simply a form of entertainment to pass time. In other words, more of a hobby.
I agree with you, it can be a good way to relieve stress and could have a positive effect on society in that way.
Again, I apologize for having an offensive opinion. It is somewhat my nature to say things that not everybody wants to hear.
It most likely is a challenging job to have and I do have respect for the skills that game developers possess.
There is obviously a lot of money in this business. Whether everyone gets in on it or not, I do not know, so it wouldn't be my place to act like I have any idea how much they get paid. I am sure if you are starting out, you probably work for next to nothing. But it is obvious that there is potential to make wages to live on, or even become very successful doing.
It is supposed to be something people enjoy. In my opinion, it should start as a hobby and turn into a passion for something that you love.
I totally understand how the lack of appreciation and "hatred" will sour a person given enough time. I have gone through very similar instances, at work, at home, in many places in life. It is not fair. That is part of life. Without struggle or stress, what would there be to push you forward?
I like to look at life as basically two opposing forces. You can call it "black and white", "up and down", "positive and negative", "good and bad", whatever. No matter what side you are on, there is always resistance. Just like when a river flows or electrical current passes through a wire, there is always resistance. Each needs the opposite to exist.
We can either embrace the fact that these things exist, and try to do something positive about it. Or we can hide anonymously posting things that everybody already knows exist and just sit here and talk about it...
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"You called me an asshole, at least have the courage to stand by your words."
Hey? I haven't backed-down yet mate.
"I did not state the author is wrong, I stated they are correct."
I'm not arguing about that, I'm arguing about other things you said.
"I also did not say they are "clearly female". I'm basically saying they have female characteristics, like those of a mother, leading to believe me that their gender is female."
"We will never know, because the author clearly doesn't stand by their word enough to actually let it be known who they are and what work they are associated with. Isn't that convenient? So that their works never come into question..."
You ever think that maybe their job might be in danger? Person has an opinion but the company they represent wouldn't want them to speak about it, because it makes the company look bad. Future employees won't hire somebody who has a reputation for speaking negatively about the public. There's a lot more at stake than just trying to hide what titles they've worked on.
"I also did not say it is not a real job, I said they are lucky to have a job like that. You know instead of being a sewage worker, or construction worker, or steel worker or anything else that directly benefits society."
Not going to argue this, but at the same time, that doesn't mean the position doesn't have its own challenges to overcome. Also, who's to say that anybody who works in games is suited to those positions? Could Ken Levine suddenly leave Irrational Games and start shovelling dirt? Probably not. People get jobs in what they're more suited to doing. Probably sounds way too high-and-mighty, but that's the unfortunate truth to life.
"Women are sensitive and protective of their children are they not? That's the main reason why my opinion is that it sounds like a female who wrote it."
"Most men that I know say / are told some pretty harsh stuff, especially at work, and we just shrug it off. That's what a man does. A lot of men are in sports or the military and just come to accept that sometimes people say some harsh stuff and use it as motivation for their own success."
That's a pretty broad assumption, you've made there. You're also underestimating the amount and proximity of the comments being made. You're under the assumption that somebody finding your personal accounts and threatening you and the people you care about is easy to shrug off, when it's more than one person doing it and potentially multiple times in any given period.
"You don't like what people have to say about your work? Either don't focus on that or get a new line of work buttercup."
You're a bucket of sunshine. The problem isn't criticism, it's disproportionate retribution towards somebody who works their arse off to try and build something that makes people happy, not angry.
"Video games mostly are useless, they are merely a hobby or waste of time. Of course there are the educational video games and programs for children, but that is different. I doubt that Reader Rabbit is getting death threats. I also doubt the author works on those types of programs."
You'd be surprised. I've heard developers on children's stuff say they've had harsh complaints from parents of children with disability.
"You clearly have not taken time to read anything McJobless. Maybe you should spend more of your free time educating yourself instead of playing video games. You should be most angry at this guy, look what he did to you!"
top lel.
You don't know me, you don't know what I do, who I am, or what I want to become. Arguing with you is good practice and it's good for getting stress out, but some of your points make me feel like I'm banging my head on a brick wall. Maybe you should stop trying to be a hero to the lower classes and just accept the fact that people are not the same, and that your preconceptions are outdated and wrong.
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It's alright if you think I am an asshole, I have been called much worse! I will even agree with you that I can be one!
I really hold no hard feelings to you or anyone else here, and no I am not even trolling as some might say. My words are true to how I feel, some are correct and some may be wrong.
But someone who complains about how they are being treated at work, and then RETURNS to that same job, I cannot have sympathy for. It's like saying I really hate bananas and then move to an island where only bananas grow. As if there are no other jobs that could use the skills gained by a video game developer? And the skills could probably be used in a much more meaningful manner.
If I do not like the way I am being treated at work, I find something else. Not bitch and moan about it.
At least if the author wanted to make a real point, they would expose the whole deal and wouldn't be afraid to reveal themselves or the works they've been involved in. So you want to complain from the shadows? That only makes their point less valuable. And it does matter because I am very curious as to which games exactly this developer has worked on.
Nobody should have to put up with workplace abuse. The threats are completely unacceptable, I totally agree. But to sit there and actually try to convince me that the video game industry is the most cut throat is laughable.
Again, sorry if I did offend you or anyone else, it truly is not my intention. I voice my opinion whether anyone agrees with it or not. Probably not here anymore though...
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you're trolling, whether intentionally (i'm leaning towards intentional, but I'll humor you in case I'm wrong) or not, you're essentially insulting people and trying to elicit responses from those reading your post, that's not quite the same as what that article is describing
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The game may deserve hate, the corporation may deserve hate, but the individual when acting as part of that group shouldn't be targeted. It's also important to look at what you're dealing with. Often flaws aren't found until the game is released, especially when it involves online play (Reviews of Sim City were great before release, it just turned out that the servers didn't perform). Other times there is a flawed decision but we have no idea what led to it. Maybe it was that the game was so large that one error was overlooked and that error turned out to be bigger than usual. Maybe there was pressure to release the game due to financial reasons. If the company can't pay its employees and has a game that works, even if buggy, it would make sense to release it and then use the money from sales to fix it after release.
All in all, critique the game as is but don't hate upon those who made it without knowing why it was flawed. (Exceptions to intentional DRM, but that doesn't warrent death wishes)
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This is a reason I have second thoughts about becoming a game developer sometimes, if I ever became one. I love video games and wouldn't mind making them for a living so people can see and enjoy my creations. But then there's the unnecessary, over-the-top hate when some fans don't get their way. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it shouldn't go as far as trashing someone's work, hate comments, etc. I'm sure I'd eventually ignore all the hateful criticisms and stick to the constructive ones. No point in dwelling in all the negativity.
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I don't think the developer should've posted this. Most haters are just trolls or bandwagoners. Someone will call his/her work a piece of crap because they heard one person say it or because they enjoy making him/her cringe at the sight of their putrid thoughts. But, if he/she were a truly passionate developer then I think he should only worry about the people that appreciate his/her work.
Lets face it, there's going to be haters no matter what because everyone has different views. He/she should be proud of the games he/she worked on instead of wanting to "Quit" when haters call him/her out.
I always see/hear of people insulting some games that are arguably the best ever made. The point is, if he/she lets these haters get to him then I don't think she/he is cut out to be a developer anyway.
I'm not saying he/she should just quit or whatever, he/she just has to learn that not everyone will like his/her work and he/she can't change the hostile behavior in this industry by making a post because most people are already aware of stuff like this.
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I thing the gaming industry has one of if not the worst customer base. Too much QQ and that goes sometimes for the developers but they have sometimes the right to do so but should keep to themselves.
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The threats are overboard, but I will say some people do deserve the hate they get. Phil Price, Cliff Bleszinski, and Tameem are the first people who come to mind. You can't act like an ass hole and then get mad when people act like ass holes right back to you.
Yes, a lot of gamers/gaming community are complete dicks, but you know what? So are are a lot of developers.
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those people you named are the exact same as the very people this subject is about. an asshole is an asshole is an asshole no matter if they are just some gamer or random person online or a professional in their field.
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if you start to take random internet hating seriously, you've lost.
no one should death-threat others, not even the most evil persons, but (more or less) anonymity, which internet blogs/communites grants a person, makes it easier for some people to spread words of hatred without thinking about it too much.
there's just no inhibition. an internet hater would never dare to use the same kind of foul language against someone standing right in front of him, unless he's a masochist or just mentally challenged.
about that anonymous developer: i pity him. not for being a target of hate, but for taking that hate actually serious.
you can't do anything about haters, but to ignore them, mostly. if it's really sick stuff they're posting, you can go to the police. (threats and harrasments are not handled trivial here in germany...i don't know how other countries deal with that)
wow, this must be my post serious post ever at these forums.
let's get funny again: anime internet troll gets served
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I work as a professional film critic and let me tell you this isn't a gamer community issue. Its an internet issue. I've had threats of violence for giving a bad review, I've had threats of violence for giving a good review of something someone else thought was bad. Any forum where people can be anonymous or relatively so will produce what I like to call "Douche-bags".
Welcome to the internet, where everyone is wrong and you're always right, so long as you keep typing.
Oh and that thing he brought up about Tom Cruise...are you kidding of course Tom gets death threats, probably way more then this guys game ever have. Hell I'd assume Tom gets more threats of violence against him in between movies then all of this guys games have ever garnished.
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Luckily Tom Cruise has his lover John Travolta to comfort him in the middle of the night...
It's OK Tom, one day you will be as tall as a normal boy!
But yeah you are 100% correct the hate is all over...
Thing that I found amusing is a person making a video game (which are already mostly violent these days) complaining about not getting a "well-mannered" review. Funny how the companies who sell the stuff partly responsible for corrupting children's minds in the first place have something to say about how those same kids act. But they don't want any responsibility for say teaching these kids manners through the games they make in the first place. I would love to know this person's works, as it would be even more hilarious if the person was involved in say Grand Theft Auto. Where, for example, you can kill a hooker and steal her cash. Now, behave kiddies!
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Well there are lots of studies that have been done, but without even actually looking at my library of games can safely say that over 50% of them contain violence. More than 50% = MOSTLY. And the real number I know for sure is gonna be much higher than that...
I'll put a link below, but this one study says at least 64% of all E RATED GAMES (notice the E rating) contain violence, 24% contain gun violence and 60% reward reward players for injuring other characters.
http://www.lionlamb.org/research_articles/jobem%20article.pdf
It also says that kids between 8-18 who play video games for 40 minutes a day will encounter an average of between 2-124 violent interactions in that time. It works out to thousands over the course of a month.
You are saying that does not affect the outlook of the person giving the review?
Yes it is the parents responsibility for teaching their kids. But how about kids without parents or grow up with bad guidance? So that justifies a company exploiting a young unprotected mind?
It is like a steel factory polluting the shit out of the planet to make a buck.
It is equal responsibility of the parents to make sure their kids get the right guidance, but it is also the company's responsibility that they are not abusing the environment or creatures within.
With your logic, a methamphetamine producer is not doing anything wrong by putting a harmful substance on the market. It's the parents fault for letting their kids get their hands on it?
The game developers have no problem taking a dollar for their product. But when people act out of line (sometimes similarly to how characters in the video game behave) this is completely unexpected? Well, just seems more of a wake up call to me...
Again, the threats are unacceptable. Nobody should have to live in fear and it is wrong for anyone to cause that upon another being.
One day companies will be forced to take responsibility for the by-products of their success. It transcends the video game industry, there are much more important things like the environment being affected here...
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the problem is younger generations that have lack of respect and compassion and care only for their own personal wants. It just happens that videogame industry is made up of these younger generations for the most part. take these same people and give them the same anonymity that internet/games give and mix it with any industry/hobby/venue and it will be same same exact scenario of "hate"
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Congrats, you've fallen victim to a psychological phenomenon known as recency illusion. Recency illusion is "the belief or impression that something is of recent origin when it is in fact long-established." Basically, EVERY generation sees the younger generations as lacking in x; usually some kind of morals or "respect", which completely ignores 1) how society and norms change over time, and 2) actually objective comparison to when they were young (which is pretty much impossible)
The real issue is what MCage said below me. The internet provides an outlet of anonymity that had not existed before to just about everyone in the world with an internet connection, a massive population.
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or society as a whole is in a never ending downward spiral and always has been.
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I bet they're all taken, and that nobody even cared to say 'thanks'.
Well, thanks for the drop.
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I couldn't even get through the whole article. The writer is just a whiner. When you're in the business of creating stuff, you have GOT to realize that not everyone is going to like what you've made. If many do, then your job is done and you should be proud. Listening to trolls on the internet is like stabbing yourself in the eye with a steak knife. There is no point. Just... why?
I used to work for a division of Sony back in the day, and while our flagship product was wildly popular, you still had people that complained. Hell, I became one of them. While still an employee, I basically stopped playing all my accounts (even though, as an employee, they're free) and moved on to the next best thing because the next best thing was a better experience for me.
This is the entertainment industry. Whining about Tom Cruise: "They might criticize it, but they don't tell him to go kill himself because they disliked what he did." The hell they don't. If the writer really believes that, he is just being either completely willfully ignorant, or just benignly clueless. The comments tagged on many of those paragraphs are spot on, and should give this person a reality check.
I did get so far as to read that this person loves his job. Well, if you love your job and, at the end of the day, you're not hurting anyone else, then stop looking for reasons to be pissed off and go to work happy. There are so many people out there that would do just about anything to enjoy their job... or even have one.
I just can't with this article.
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Two reasons...
It's easier for a video game to be... unsatisfying. Movies, books or TV shows cannot be buggy. You either like them or you don't, it's very subjective. They never just "don't work". Since video games have this, it's easier for a customer to feel ripped off and like they didn't get what they paid for. Which over the course of several decades, and games getting bigger and bigger, and buggier and buggier... can leave gamers a bit jaded.
Gamers generally tend to be the more isolated types, which can also probably leave them a bit more cynical. Mix that with constant e-peen contests on the internet (where gamers tend to congregate)... and you get a bunch of people hating on things and always trying to one up the last guy.
And that's on top of the fact that every kind of media has it's share of "haters".
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That's just hatred in general for what i've read, seems like the guy never asked a 50+yr old guy what he thinks about their country's economic system, or anything else for that matter, he'll see that same type of answer: Redirecting the hate towards the creator, and not the idea (extremely common thing to see).
Biggest difference in the environment is that he's dealing with thousands and thousands of children who are barely able to articulate a critic without doing just that.
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I thought this deserved to be read.
Clicky.
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