Hmmm, seems I got my "not today!" key from orlygift. But yeah, it got revoked. sigh
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What else you expected from a studio with a name like that?
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Electro Stalin Entertainment is a russian developer. I am not surprised that they are fraudster and scammers.
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You're welcome, usually people don't are stalkers about this stuff, but hey is you the cakeday boy!
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I don't "stalk", I use ESGST. Nice try, though. I rate it 3/10.
Incidentally, I see that assuming random bullshit about people is one of your hobbies. I guess that means you had assumed random bullshit about me earlier, which explains the random blacklist too. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I see that assuming random bullshit about people is one of your hobbies
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Quite agreed; I'd say that the most ironic part of it all is the fact that you answer with that when the crux of the irony of the matter seems to be entirely lost on you.
But hey, whatever floats your boat, man. If you're happier that way, more power to you. :D
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Not my fault you are angry and creating drama about a single blacklist.
move on boy.
Happy new year!
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So I thank you for the blacklist, in a display of humor, and then you reply, in order, like this: by claiming that I'm stalking you, by throwing around a pic about irony, and by claiming that I am angry and creating drama.
I am so very amused right now that I lack the words to tell you about it. :D I'd even throw you a whitelist over amusing me so much, but I'd have to keep a spot busy with someone who can't use it, so I guess I won't. Too bad, I guess.
Also, why stop at a happy new year? Let us all have a happy entire year! ;)
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This is a bit random, but you see, I appreciate beauty in numbers. You have to be a bit weird to do that, but if you look closely, is anyone not at least a bit weird? Anyway, it turns out that someone else also blacklisted me, thereby ruining the beautiful number I had achieved when you did it. I guess my my happiness was short-lived, but hey, at least it was fun while it lasted. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Until we meet again! tips hat :D
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Thank you! <3
On a more serious note, I do sometimes find myself wondering why people who I'd never once interacted with before decide to blacklist me. I mean, it's not a problem if they want to, I just get curious, in a scientific kind of way. :) Maybe you could help me figure it out? :D
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People can neither know nor be reasonably expected to know the uncommunicated reasons for decisions from others when they may well have been taken for entirely random reasons. Case in point: I know of one person who literally rolls the random number generator to choose whether to blacklist (or at least so they told me). Which means that not only are you wholly wrong about your point 1, but you are also fancying yourself able to peer into other's minds. And that unsaid little bit that you let on, my friend, communicates a lot more than anything you have actually said.
Also, as a "response", your message is supremely competent at not responding, instead attempting yet failing to insult while leaking some interesting bits about your thought processes. If that's your standard in communicating, then I think I have figured out why you blacklisted me, even if that still says nothing about the others.
Thank you for taking the time to letting me know of your reasons, even if you didn't actually mean to.
P.S.: Do yourself (and everyone else) a favor and please fix your sarcasm detector. It's very broken.
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That funny-in-a-sad-way moment when you have to agree that all those negative stereotypes about your country are deeply rooted in reality. I know that feeling so well I even learned to laugh it off. :D
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It's Russia tho, not USA, so instead of lawyers they should be hiring mobsters to take the dev out.
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So true, this. :)
How does the site continue selling thousands of bundles still?! The mind boggles. (Unless those are bogus figures.)
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If that's the case then that's silly, because I see many of these shovelware titles removed from Steam very soon after they're put in the store for sale... some last only a few months... and I heard that when these games are removed from the store, they also -1 from your game count (although they continue to stay in your library)?
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Someone who said he talked to the dev said, that they will provide an explanation within the next 24h
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The dev has added some messages on that topic just now. Unfortunately they're rather confusing. But I guess he gets a couple points for trying at this point.
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It is confusing at a point where he mentions scammers, but Otaku, i don't know, they just don't seem to be the blame and why did he shake hands with them in the first place not aware that they are slow with response times although i find it hard to believe one month, like its a joke.
I also decided to fire off a kind e-mail, in which i doubt he'll respond.
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still waiting, nothing ! he deleted everything related to this case. best dev 2k19.
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The dev provided a screenshot of the contract.... he mixed somethign up..... Otakubundle stilll has till the 25th January to pay him..........
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🎶 Another dev bites the dust 🎶
🎶 Another dev bites the dust 🎶
🎶 And another dev gone, and another dev gone 🎶
😸🎤
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its F*cking HOLIDAYS !!
https://steamcommunity.com/app/822650/discussions/0/1742229167230940736/
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not Otaku's fault, he posted a screenshot
https://ibb.co/NpNdVHm
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So it's developer not understanding English and what 30 days post sale ending means? Cool.
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Still have to wonder, how did he/she got in contract with both Steam and Otaku then. When your business model is to grab any keys you can and sell any crap in a bundle, you can expect this to happen occasionally.
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jaw drops
Well that is such an impressive fuckup that I even feel kind of sorry for him. He legit thought that he had been scammed.
Oh boy, this is so incredibly helpless that I hope he can at least fix a part of the damage he did to himself.
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Even with my 3rd grade English I can perfectly understand that contract lmao. This dev is so stupid.
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By this contract doesn't seem that they have a final date for the "sale period". Which is bad for the dev.
But by the looks of it they did not understand the contract.
However, despite mentioning "18 November to 26 December 2018", the bundle is still being sold: https://otakubundle.com/latest/bundles/otakubundle-36
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if they sell forever, don't have to pay dev :)
Edit: also contracts from January, soo that is about 1 year delay to payment.
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It's unclear if Otaku just didn't change the dates, or it took them that long to launch the bundle. However, looking at the screenshot the developer posted of his emails..
The keys were provided at the start of November, shortly before the start of the bundle.
So, no, has not been a 1 year delay.
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Oh yeah, that's reasonable. I only saw contract & date in it.
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So basically, they were mad they weren't getting the money quick enough even though the contract says they have up to 30 calendar days AFTER THE SALE IS OVER in order to pay them, and the sale was still ongoing when they did this? Someone doesn't know how to read their contracts.
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Lol now when everyone in the cummityhub is confused about whats the actuall problem is, he blocked the thread again xD
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In his final reply he even says he isn't demanding payment, he just wants Otaku to contact him before he'll "recover" the keys.
I think / hope that maybe he's realized he screwed up at this point and misunderstood, and now he's backtracking a bit.
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Sorry, but I'm not just repeating myself, but you write about another. As soon as they just get in touch with us,(it is not necessary to send funds for key recovery) we will recover the keys. At this point, I close my dialogue, as everything in my power I wrote.
Hope for understanding.
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The games would end for free or revoked from steam like in other similar cases.
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Oh, so THAT'S why otaku/gogo constantly delayed bundles end dates, after looking at this contract it all makes sense now. If they paying devs only after the bundle end date, then if you keep delaying the end date then you following the contract terms and you don't need to pay the dev for keys. Since there is no hard date for bundle duration periods, otaku/gogo, in theory, can never pay the dev as long as they have a supply of keys to sell.
I'm not trying to defend the dev though. I'm not sure what the hell were they thinking when they signed up for such terms, it's only their fault. Still, the way how otaku/gogo doing their business is deviously scammy and I hope they will be gone for good soon.
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You're right, I'm thinking the same thing too! I've visited Otaku/GoGo a few times before... something I found strange was that some bundles could still be bought after the stipulated "end" date, and so I wondered to myself how legit such a site was (why are you still allowed to buy even after the bundle is supposed to have ended? In which case what is the purpose of having an "end date" since you're not going to follow it?!). I bought 1 ongoing bundle from them (which contained 1 game I wanted while the rest was junk) as a test. I guess I'll never be buying anything from them ever again. Not gonna be missing much anyway since each time I check, all their bundles only ever seem to contain shovelware. :)
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[Edit 2]
Dev closing any related topic and criticism.
What a terrible move...
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So, to sum it up:
- Dev claims he entered a contract with Otaku that his games are sold in a bundle running for 30 days, starting November 8th 2018. We have no proof for that claim.
- Otaku postponed the enddate of the bundle several times, so that the bundle did not end on December 8th, 2018.
- We don't know if Otaku was allowed to postpone the enddate.
- Dev wants his money from Otaku because the contract said the bundle only runs for 30 days.
- Dev does not see that - in theory - more games can be sold the longer a bundle runs which leads to the fact that the postponement of the enddate could - again, in theory - actually help the Dev to get more money.
- (Otaku could - again, in theory - postpone the enddate indefinitely and as such would never be liable to pay the Dev.)
- Dev did not understand that Otaku has 30 days after the end of the bundle to pay him. Since the bundle is still running, Otaku has not paid Dev, which is fine from Otakus side. Contract
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And another nail in the coffin for the Dev... Even if the bundle was supposed to run until Dec 8 as per what the dev said, Otakubundle still had 5-6 more days to pay when dev decided to cancel all of the keys, based on what the Dev has claimed himself. 30 days after Dec 8 = Jan 7th.
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Amano, with 1 mistake, nowhere in the contract is written "the bundle last 30 days", only said "payment 30 days after bundle ends"
i can not even find a starting date for the bundle.?
and even so, 8th january is still not here...
this developer scammed all users :)
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Dev claimed via Steam discussions that he had a contract between himself and Otaku that the bundle is only sold for 30 days. Dev never provided proof for this statement. That's why I said in the first bullet point that we don't know if such contract ever existed ;)
Starting date of the bundle was November 8th 2018.
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yes, but he later posted the contract with otaku, and there, nothing is written about dates (start, long, end)
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To sum it up: The dev is an idiot.
At least read the contract, damn it.
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From between the lines of Dev's messages, it looks like he's not interested in getting paid, but instead wants to cancel the contract (citing as not getting paid, and end date delays as breach of contract),
It's likely he either figured he can get more money selling elsewhere, or that bundling his game in Otake will flood 2nd hand stores (G2A, Kinguin, etc.) with cheap keys, and will make it hard for him to sell them in the future. So this is why he revoked all keys, and offers everyone to buy directly from Steam.
EDIT: I also see a lot of people complaining their key got revoked even though they bought at a different store than Otaku. So it's quite possible Otaku has been making profit by selling supposedly "bundle" keys on the side, to other resellers. (in a bundle they only pay the dev $0.11 for each sold key)
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He isn't very smart. First he take our games and then tell us to buy from Steam. Like that's gonna happen.
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What he expected people to do (and what people should do) is demand a refund from Otaku or cancel your payment to them.
After all, people bought the game from Otaku, not from the dev, so it's up to Otaku to refund them.
If everyone starts refunding their purchases, Otaku will be in deep shit, and may approach the dev itself (for more keys) - and then he gets what he wants.
But instead, people choose to bitch and moan to the dev.
Like that's gonna help with anything...
(Honestly, people think if they bitch and moan enough, he will give them free keys)
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He could have waited for an answer (there were holidays). And even if the the deadline for the payment has passed, first thing would be to contact the business partner. If you don't get an answer or the answer is not satisfying, you should write an official letter to put them into delay of payment. If this still doesn't lead to a payment, you could threaten them with revocation of keys or a lawsuit. You could also inform owners of the game about the situation and ask them to contact the business partner as well.
Instead he just pulled a trigger, wondered about the shitstorm then and censored discussions afterwards, which increased the shitstorm of course.
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It doesn't matter what he could have/should have/would have done.
What customers need to do now is get their money back from Otaku, because the keys are already revoked, there's no turning back.
If the customers are still pestering the dev it's because they want free shit, not for any other reason.
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I know what I have to do as affected customer of Otaku and already did that. And I requested a replacement key, if possible, as it's my right. Only otherwise I will accept a refund.
That doesn't mean though that I may not criticise the dev for this way of escalation. If he doesn't know how Steamworks works, he might consider hiring a publisher for this. Whatever "free shit" you mean (it's his only game), it isn't my intention for critics. But thanks for generalising.
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I don't know this dev, but he has at least 3 games (the ones he revoked).
And from what I understand, these are not the games you buy to play, if you know what I mean.
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Ah, sorry, you're right for the three games, I mistook it for today's case and dev.
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It wasn't Otaku fault, it was in the contract that he would pay until 30 days after the sales end. That would end on Jan 25th.
The Dev is entirely wrong on this. He just can't read English right.
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I never said it was Otaku's fault.
I said customers who paid Otaku need to get their money back from Otaku.
And it's Otaku's responsibility then (not the customers) to square things up with the dev.
As the customers never bought anything from the dev, only from Otaku.
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Dev does not see that - in theory - more games can be sold the longer a bundle runs which leads to the fact that the postponement of the enddate could - again, in theory - actually help the Dev to get more money.
I agree with other stuff, but I think this one's not black and white. Instead of more people buying the bundle, this might lead to people spreading word-of-mouth about the game, which would cause them to buy the game from Steam, which hypothetically could lead to less units sold, but more money being made.
Everything else seems objective here, but that point is just subjective and it can't be hailed as praise or criticism.
But damn, that developer's a moron.
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Here is the game studio steam group
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/ElectroStalinEntertainment
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Hmmm I just got path to domination revoked too. doesnt seem like its from this developer tho
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It's from Seaborgium Entertainment and was in the Otaku Bundle #35.
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Once again, Otaku was not at fault.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/912590/announcements/detail/1712955769670599584
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This one even admits it was his own fault and not Otakumaker's. Great things about his announcement:
- He doesn't give the contact e-mail
- People who bought it on a groupbuy are screwed (hosts are even more screwed because they have to claim the new keys and resend them again after three months)
One has to start to think if OtakuMaker really is not paying the devs, or if some devs are taking advantage of an isolated case (or the latest news).
Valve should really remove the option to mass-revoking keys from developers. They should be enforced to contact Valve and explain their problem, and then it would be up to Valve to approve or deny the revocation of keys.
On the other hand, this getting worse and worse will likely end by Valve removing the Steam keys feature altogether. Thanks, stupid developers who don't know how to properly revoke Steam keys (or how to deal with a problem without immediately resorting to the worst solution).
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Yes, I fear this will be yet another case where "we can't have nice things" because some people are too stupid and/or are trying to find some way to abuse it.
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Very weird response.
- Why are they claiming a key leak?
- How will they provide a replacement keys, if all keys for said games were revoked?
- Why are people who didn't buy their keys from Otaku reporting them revoked? Is Otaku scamming the devs and selling their keys on the side?
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Edit:
Welp, once again it has turned out it wasn't Otaku's fault.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/912590/announcements/detail/1712955769670599584
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"once again"? When was the last time it was proven it wasn't their fault? Just being curious what I've missed...
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Yesterday a different developer, Electro-Stalin Entertainment, revoked his 3 games which were featured in Otaku Bundle 36.
After posting his contract it became clear to everyone except him that Otaku never had stipulated how long the bundle period would last (he seems to have assumed 30 days), and that Otaku had 30 days AFTER the bundled ended to pay him. The bundle only ended 5 days ago, and in fact, even if the bundle had not been extended a couple times, the 30 day period still would have not been up.
So, that debacle was not Otaku's fault either.
Edit:
Just realized we're in the Electro-Stalin thread... perhaps you didn't notice the link is to a different developer. I had previously replied to the other user explaining that Otaku wasn't at fault in the Electro-Stalin incident, but that it was unclear in the new incident. Then I edited that because it turned out they were not guilty there either.
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Ah thanks. I thought you might have been talking about the pre-previous case from two months ago - and I was wondering if I missed something back then.
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he deleted now everything related to this case.
and banned me from 1 community hub of the 3 games.
this developer is a thief, a scammer and an idiot.
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Quote from that "dev"
Закрыли обсуждения и заблокировали пользователей(на некоторое время), эти люди размусоливают одну и ту же тему обвиняя нас без разбирательств в данной ситуации, что сложилась вокруг нас. Сейчас вы пишите что мы нарушили контракт, вы уверены в том что вы написали(или вы взяли из того что пишут другие)? Доказывать каждому человеку в обсуждении в том или ином нам уже надоело, так как люди видят свою правду. На данный момент, люди смотрят на ситуацию со стороны и без разбирательств пускают клевету на нас. Мы совершили блокировку по правилам выдачи ключей стим. Люди же которые купили этот бандл, могут совершить возврат средств, вместо того чтобы пускать клевету в сторону разработчика. Сейчас мы ведем диалог со стимом о восстановлении активированных ключей, но пока ничего большего сказать не можем.
Мы закроем эту тему, если "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" продолжится дальше, также вы в праве пожаловаться стиму и мы вместе со стимом будем разбирать этот вопрос, если вас что-то не устраивает.
На данный ответ, отвечать нет необходимости.
Shut down debate and blocked users(for a while), these people razmusolivat the same theme of accusing us without trials in this situation that has developed around us. Now you write that we broke the contract, are you sure that you wrote(or you think from what others have written)? To prove to every person in the discussion in one way or another we are already tired, since people see their own truth. At the moment, people look at the situation from the outside and without proceedings let slander us. We made a lock according to the rules of issuing steam keys. People who bought this bundle can make a refund instead of slander the developer. Now we are in a dialogue with steam about the recovery of activated keys, but so far we can not say anything more.
We will close this topic, if the "srach" continues further, also you have the right to complain to the incentive and we, together with the incentive will deal with this issue, if you do not like something.
he is too stupid. thats all i could read out of it.
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I love the "that's not my problem" type devs... This only keeps getting better and better.
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Typical Nightmare
Not my Day
Outside
Upcoming games.
Paws and Soul
Mike goes on hike
What bundle it's from.
[Edit]
Official comment
"Evilgamesstudios [developer] 4 minutes ago
Hi, We do not understand why all claims go to us. All revoked keys were seized from Otaku store due to fraud. Write to the store where the key was purchased."
[Edit 2]
Dev closing any related topic and criticism.
[Edit 3]
Dear friends!
Because of the conflict with the store "Otaku" we have blocked all the keys and return the old keys can not. All this week we have been thinking about the solution to the situation. Those who had their keys revoked as: Typical Nightmare, Outside and Not my day.
Please see the application form at email: EvilGamesStudios@yandex.ru.
The application form should consist of the following:
Message subject: Locked keys
In a message to paint the points:
What games were blocked and their number
(for example, Typical Nightmare-1 key)
Proof that your key is locked
(a photo or a message from steam locked games)
Attach a receipt for the purchase of the game
(if you do not have a check, the application will be considered longer)
To speed up the application process, please provide more information about the purchase.
Response time may take some time. Please do not flood in the comments. The application form is mandatory.
The application is accepted only by mail!
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