That's cool. I might have keys from bundle for games that were free in the past
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sounds like a good change, however i still think games that cannot be given away need to show up in the search and show a message explaining why they can't be given away, and of course prevent creation of the giveaway. the current system of keeping them out of the search results makes people think steamgifts is broken and makes them likely to choose the wrong game because the right one isn't there.
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What games can't be given away?
EDIT: Oh you mean, the moment they are still free. I see.
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sounds like the list is still bigger than this, but:
"Free Games: Not able to be given away, because they are currently free."
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this is a great news, finally i can create giveaway for some games i cant instead of just posting in a forum from where the key will just robbed by a bot account.
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Thank you for the update Cg! :3
For me personally nothing changes because I'm making my giveaways with type 1 and 2 games and that won't change. Type 3 and 4 games that I have through game bundles, I key drop in my SGTools trains.
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Oh it will, you like to use Sent / Won a lot on SGTools. The free keys currently give a +1 to the Sent category.
Looks like it's finally time to switch to Real CV Sent.
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I didn't read this full thread, yet but I don't see that +1 for sent free games in the OP.
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In this thread there are a lot of questions indeed about the +1 sent and obviously a lot of people, including me wouldn't like that.
But I haven't seen any denial or confirmation from Cg in this thread. Where did you get the information about free keys giving currently +1 to sent giveaways?
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It's a good anti-ninja measure though.
I just kept all my free keys in a file since they would just be ninja'ed anyway.
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Yes it is concerning the anti-ninja feature, using these giveaways make sure that your keys will not go to nameless ninjas.
I don't have many because I dropped them at the end of my SGTools trains, so at least they have to pass through a SGTools gate and go through the length of the train.
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additionally, could we get an europe option for regiongiveaways? Sometimes there are now even region restrictions on humble gifts for europe, and we dont want issues when a bot wins who dont read descriptions. thanks
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+1
These EU restricted games are already in some recent game bundles and knowing there are already a lot of other regional choices an EU region only would be nice and to be able to gift these Humble EU restricted games. Chances are that Humble will keep on providing EU restricted game keys in their bundles.
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+1 There are more companies that make EU locks nowadays that make NA locks (Even with locked bundles NA is usually RoW), we have NA Region, why not EU region (only reason I see is that NA is easier as it's only US+Canada, while EU you would have to check a lot of countries, but we already have it as well in RU+CIS for example)
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Thanks for the change, I like it.
Will a giveaway for a no value game increase the number of simultaneous giveaways the user can create, like a normal giveaway does?
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Besides the no CV for type 3, No Value Games there also shouldn't be any +1 to sent giveaways because giving these type 3 games away would lead to gaining +1 sent with basically free games and that would make looking at\interpreting sent ratio's difficult and allowing users to enter SGTools giveaways with pumped up ratio's because of these no value games induced +1 sent.
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The only ratio that should be considered is real CV. I mean, if you only take into consideration the win:sent ratio, then you were able to exploit it even before these changes were implemented. Simply buying hundreds of keys on those russian sites for 5 cents (or less if you buy them in bulk).
I'm not in any private ratio group but if any of those groups works by considering the number of sent:win ratio they are obviously prone to abuse.
I get your point but if you only consider real CV then there's no problem if anyone creates a 10,000 copies giveaway of a 0P game.
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I've made over 3K SGTools giveaways and done some various SGTools filter testing. I found that using real CV is a much stronger filter than sent ratio and therefore I'm using a standard sent/won rario of 0.75. Giveaway entries drop sharply when real CV filters are used instead of sent ratio filters. Sent/won isn't perfect but it works.
And yes this can be abused like other giveaways (private/group/puzzle...) But in the end even the cheap keys must be paid for and are not keys given totally for free on a lot of different (bundle) sites.
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Giveaway entries drop sharply when real CV filters are used instead of sent ratio filters.
That's the reason to use filters, if you simply filter by sent:won you could get entries from people who only gave 1P games and won several 60P AAA games. That's why sent:win is useless and I'd never use it as a valid filter for my giveaways but you can filter they way you want of course.
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+1, someone else who finally understands why Sent / Won is useless.
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And there's the opposite case, that is worse. People with level 9-10, with 100 gifts sent (lots of unbundled +20P games) and 800 wins (mostly bundled trash to farm cards) with 2:1 sent:won real CV ratio who could not enter LostSoulVL's giveaways because of that filter.
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I don't think that case is worse. I think the worst case is people being able to enter giveaways they don't deserve just because they were able to snag a free key.
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I mean is worse because people who gave expensive unbundled games are unfairly penalised by the sent:won ratio filter only because they use SG to win trash for +1 and/or cards, but they really have better real CV than 99% of users.
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Out of experience checking my public giveaway winners: those with exotic sent ratio's (in the general direction like 50/1, 100/1, 150/5, 200/10,...) keep that general ratio and aren't interested in boosting their sent giveaway ratio. So sent ratio isn't perfect but it does work for me. If I want to make giveaways that have a smaller amount of entries I use my WL.
And you're right that the rule of thumb on SG for every giveaway creator is: my giveaways my rules.
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To clarify, currently all these free keys WILL give a +1 to your Sent statistic. cg himself said so in the "unofficial" Discord channel.
Most of you are not in the unofficial Discord, but cg (actual cg, warned us when he was taking the site down for upgrades) is.
Here's just a couple snippets that have been said today.
Sighery - Today at 6:17 AM
@cg Will the sent/won values go up with free games?
cg - Today at 6:17 AM
@Sighery Yes.
cg - Today at 7:45 AM
I think the sent number should include free games. However, like I said earlier, I think I should list received and sent CV when rolling over the contributor level on profiles.
cg - Today at 7:49 AM
The reason I want them to be included is because it's simply what users expect to see. If I give away one $10 game, I expect to see +1 sent and +$10 sent. In the previous version of the site, we displayed the sent value as the real contributor value, and it raised countless discussions and tickets when users constantly asked why the $ on their profile didn't match the $ they gave away. If we exclude free games in the counter, we'll have this same issue again.
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TIL that cg is on the "unofficial" Discord channel. :D
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More fairer system? Want an random winner for various reasons.
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free game threads are breeding grounds for ninjabots, 90% of time your key will be grabbed by bot, not an actual fair user. Making a GA gives everyone a fair chance.
Also - GA gotta be activated on your main - so it will prevent card farmers from grabbing free keys to activate them on alt accounts just to farm cards for profit. If ytou already own the game you cannot join GA, while you can grab free key and activate it on alt.
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this would be bit incorrect. that 16bit trader doesn't appear in giveaway list now...
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That's a list maintained by forum users like you and I. It's not perfect but it is all we have.
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However, please be patient as we work through the 1,000+ games that were previously blocked, and add them back to the giveaway list when appropriate.
It's gonna take a minute for us to upload everything. :D
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Is an official listing coming like
https://www.steamgifts.com/bundle-games ?
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I would imagine so to prevent confusion, but I don't know for sure. I can't see that not being changed though.
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Hum a bit worried about how no value game is going to be determined. Some games for exemple might have been given 1000 keys, but after a while it's just not a key that is easily available and the game is only found at full price.
So not only as GA you don't get any CV but as an SG member you miss out on people giving away the opportunity to win it because there's no CV at all.
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Yes, but it's better to be able to create a giveaway for 0P than not being able to create it at all. I understand your argument, for example Alienware gave several games that are "expensive" games actually (Dead by Daylight for example). Before this change you were not able to create a giveaway for it, and now you can create a giveaway for your friends for example, where CV doesn't matter.
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Yes, it surely is an addendum to be able to give them away. But the point is I fear that having 0 CV for a game that is expensive or rare rather than just 15% is going to deter people from giving away games that other might want. Like PWND for example, I want PWND.
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That's happening too with top community wishlist games added to the bundle list like Arma 3, Rust or Stardew Valley. I agree, the more CV you get the more giveaways you'll see for that game.
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very valid point, didn't think of it, haven't seen it in topic yet as well, I fully agree, so now my current standing on issue is that freebies should give no level, no +1 Sent, no +1 Won, no Value, no GA slots and not generate points
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I fine with + sent and + won. As those are indicators of games redeemed not their value (2 cent game has same value as 100€ one...) . Point generation could be good point.
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I'm not fine with them, because it can screw up with ratios much more than these few cents games does, not that I say few cents games do not screw up with ratios ofc, but 3 cents game is still infinite times more expensive than exploitable freebie. Remember there were freebie promos with no restrictions in the past (no IP checks, no social media accounts etc, each refresh you were gewtting new key until keys went all out). Getting 1000 games for 3-5 cents each would still cost you 30-50$ which is actual monetary investment (no matter how small one), getting 1000 free keys cost you nothing, getting 5000 costs you nothing, getting 100000 costs you nothing. Not to mention how much it will screw up with all group ratios and stats for example.
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Thanks for the changes!
If you accept suggestions, from a UX/UI perspective, you should use color tags instead of asterisks. Red tag for 0 P/CV games and yellow tag for bundled games for example.
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Yes but please, don't make me remember the good old times (last week :P) when the "bundled" tag from that script still worked well :(
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Appreciate you always updating the site!
Thanks for the hard work cg!
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cg, you rock the casbah!! Thanks so much for making it easy for us to gift "formally free" games in a fair manner and to prevent ninja/bots from just taking posted keys silently :-D
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Damn, this is next best thing after sliced bread!
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Hi SG, a few changes to the site today related to games and contributor value. In the past, the site had three types of games:
The downside was we needed to block games and remove them from the giveaway list when they were briefly free, or posted in large giveaways outside of our community. We needed to do so to prevent users from obtaining a high number of keys for free, and giving them away for contributor value on SteamGifts. Unfortunately, this meant lots of great games were blocked and users could no longer send or receive them. Today's update allows users to start creating giveaways for these games once again, but simply for no contributor value. However, please be patient as we work through the 1,000+ games that were previously blocked, and add them back to the giveaway list when appropriate. We now have four types of games available:
For assistance, when you're creating a giveaway, the game list will show * next to games that are Reduced Value Games, and ** next to games that are No Value Games. Keep in mind, these icons are just for reference, and similar to before, the value of a giveaway can change if we need to make retroactive changes.
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