All those discussions belong on Twitter. Poor Steamgifts.
N.B. I don't support occupation of Palestine.
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thankyou for having the courage and integrity for stating this. 100% agree with you.
And one can add the oppressed people of Kashmir in the example, as their struggle is similar to that of the Palestinians. And Yemen, Syria, Libya, etc etc
Much more war, chaos, destruction, injustice, inequality and barbarity has been caused by the sociopathic elite that rule this corrupt world. If the Russians should be sanctioned for this war, by the same standards, we'd have to sanction the next 5 generations of the Western Imperialist powers and their accomplices for all the different regime change operations, the 'democracy' and wars they've caused since WW2.
But you won't find these discussions in mainstream media. This shows the extent to which mainstream media is controlled and corrupted and is sadly, mostly a tool of propaganda by elite lobbies who are using every way to exaggerate and push this narrative.
Support of Palestinians via BDS is ridiculed and discouraged but support of Ukranians via arming their fighters, some of which are Nazis, and sanctioning Russia is encouraged and pushed via every tool and media. Proof that psychopaths are running the world.
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Hmm, you from UAE, what about Yemen war that going on thanks to Saudi Arabia and UAE coalition. See, i can make useless whataboutism too, just like you. Disregarding one awful crime in favor of the other is stupid. You act same as Russian trolls in social networks who mentions Vietnam war or Iraq war as if it absolves Russia from bombing civilians and denying that Ukrainians is different nation in very Nazi way.
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Odd, somehow you felt you could judge the whole world when you created this thread. But when we have some actual details about your life that contradict that you are any better, then being condemned suddenly requires active personal participation in a war.
But hey, we get that this is way over your head. Your insult frequency is speaking for itself.
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"Everyone has something to say against the president of Russia, but are all the people in the west located witin 500 miles of the war inflicted areas?"
Don't you make a single entity of the whole west population here ?
My grand-aunt often gave money for Palestine and she was a westerner (a christian nun and teacher to be precise, and she gave both indiscriminately to christians and muslims). I'm sure if she was still alive, she would have given for Ukraine too.
Even on Steamgifts, most people are just silent about Palestine that's right but about Ukraine too.
How can you guess what they think ? They don't say it themselves.
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"Even on Steamgifts, most people are just silent about Palestine that's right but about Ukraine too."
Are they really??
Maybe my context wasn't clear. By everyone I meant everyone condemning the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Being silent also means to allow it and ignore it which exactly is the point of the post.
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Yes absolutely. A very little % of steamgifts users post on forum. And those who post are a very little % of those who just read but don't post.
Not just on Steamgifts. It's the same on many forums. 1 loud participant -> 100 silent readers
https://www.steamgifts.com/stats/community/users
1,143,803 users actually, how many read the forum ? 5000 ? How many post ? 500 ?
"Maybe my context wasn't clear. By everyone I meant everyone condemning the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. "
Ah i see, you mean "those of the Steamgifts users who condemn Russia about Ukraine don't speak about Palestine". I answered you above about that. The Ukraine conflict is fresh new, not sure they''ll continue to post if war continues for long. And like most humans, people are more interested and more worried when it's closer to home, and happens to people they consider more similar. Don't you feel more sympathy for muslim brothers ? I know there are both christians and muslims among the Palestinians and both have been persecuted.
The funny point. Among people who post actually against Russian invasion, i'm sure some of them are pro-Palestinian, some pro-Israelians, and some just don't care.
"Being silent also means to allow it and ignore it which exactly is the point of the post."
And here i disagree. Many people around the world, including in the West just try to live their little life, working for their family. Many think that politics is something beyond them. You may be an intellectual, but not everyone is an intellectual.
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Dude, you yourself live in UAE, and are being silent about the war in Yemen, which the country you currently live on participates. Doesn't that make you an hypocryte?
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I just registered that there was some misunderstanding.
You live in one of the most authoritarian states of the world, participating in one of the most inhuman wars.
and
Can you elaborate how I participated in the war?
This was supposed to mean that the UAE is participating (they are a part of an alliance after all) in the mentioned war, not you personally.
Just thought I should clarify that, even if further disagreement remains.
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dont forget what the usa did to other countries too lol
welcome to the real world ;)
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Double Standards? 👀 Well... your description is a bit "pot kettle black"
The world is always in chaos. It's just a matter of old vs recent news, and personal perspective based on proximity and exposure to the ongoing hardships.
I live in sweden, in a highly segregated neighbourhood containing about 4000 syrians. I have no real clue what they must have gone through before they ended up here. Much like I don't really know what's happening in Insert Location Here. The only window to the world is the "news", half of which I don't trust, and half of which I turn off in a hurry, just to remain sane.
Wherever people suffer, I feel for them. If you end up on my doorstep, I'll give you a meal, and I will listen to your story, while damning the fucker who hurt you. But that's about all I can do.
... But yeah... fuck Putin, and every prior/upcoming warmongering cunt out there. Wherever they hail from.
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I feel so sorry for those footballers that show their support to the middle east and stand up with china geno. Like Kanoute and especialy Ozil, as he loose literally EVERYTHING after that. They deserve an apology from the football community and FIFA.
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every sane and semi-decent human being will condemn all war and violence no matter where on the planet and who is dishing it out or receiving it.
however on a higher level there's two problems: the media and politics.
a) media
by now we are so used to seeing the israelis and the palestinians at each others throats that in a lot of cases it's not even worth mentioning in a news report. same for the constant fighting in the whole middle east area. the war in syria has been going on for years and most likely will go on for many more years. we have become immune to the horror news that come from that region.
b) politics
i'm certainly not buying the theory about lizzard people running the show. that's just ridiculous.
but when it comes to politics there is SO much going on you don't know about, don't understand or can't even imagine.
oh and another reason is obvious: money.
sending anti tank survival care packages to ukraine is a necessity for their defensive efforts and it makes good press. at the same time it puts a lot of money in the coffers of certain groups and industries.
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It's always comes down to the money, doesn't it. Globalist corporate interests seek to open up new markets in Ukraine, and this is the result and where the focus is. Palestine and other war torn countries don't offer the opportunities to profit.
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Invasion of a country close to you that immediately affected the global ecenomy and people started to worry about WW3 Vs. Endless war in Asia/Middle East that most know nothing about what is really going on.
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well, lets be honest, did you even hear about ukraine since 2014? there was war on donbass - 2 separatist self-declared states, fully sponsored and supported by putin. it was a long planned invasion aimed to wipe ukraine off the map with the so called "novorossia" (new russia). the scale is the key difference. you got 10 vs 5 millions. here's 140 vs 40. the conflict is MUCH larger and it's a third world war potentially. let's be honest, when putin annexed crimea, the whole world didnt care much and almost let putin go with it.
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if your "point of view" is Z for preZident, it's not your point of view. it's kemlin media point of view. we know about prigozhin, we know about lahta, we know about soloviov/kiselyov/simonyan. we know the kremlin's "we did not invade" bullshit line here. i'm sure you can explain why girkin/strelkov FSB employee was the leader of separatists and you can also explain how separatists got heavy weaponry on their territory. you can deny anything you want, but novorossya was pretty much official surkov's plan, lol. boeing kinda halted their plans though. too much of a scandal.
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it's always worse if you're involved. you don't want to stay in some ukrainian building right now.
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Whatabout...oppressed Blacks and native americans in US?
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I agree with you,100%.Hypocrisy and Double Standards need to go away.From Everywhere,all parts of the world.The World needs love,not oppression.Clearly,No one wants to even pretend that Palestine exists,forget about being concerned about the oppression they are going thru each and everyday.
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There has never been such a State as Palestine (с)
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If you follow European politics, you would quickly realize that there's a hierarchy regarding the people of the various continents.
First come Europeans (except people from the European part of Russia because they are all Putin fans and Turkey because they are all Erdogan fans - according to politics), second the Americans, third Australians ... then there's a huge gap and then we have the rest.
Just compare the morale of the European politics regarding Alexei Navalny with the one regarding Julian Assange. They are simply afraid to make an enemy out of the US.
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You are making it sound like there isn't the same mentality on other continents. People tend to care much more about someone who is closer to their culture or whose fellow countrymen they know.
It can be also split even more specifically over the generalization you have - German's are going to care more about Austrians than about let's say Italians. Czechs more about Slovaks than Croatians etc. etc. Sharing bonds cannot be underestimated
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In case of war, it shouldn't matter where these people are living/coming from, since we all just want to survive. As an noninvolved country the only reasoned move is to stay out of wars at all. All the more, if it's an impartial state like Austria.
And no, this doesn't mean we shouldn't help refugees from these countries, but if we treat war refugees from the Ukraine better than war refugees from Syria, Israel, Afghanistan and so on, then it's obvious discrimination.
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It isn't tho. It is in the nature of every known animal to protect its own pack while staying wary of an unknown, which may be a possible threat. No matter how loud is a person about equality they are still going to put their family and friends first before taking care of their neighbour - with your logic that would also be discrimination.
Europeans are taking care of their family since they share history and culture with them for millennia.
Also, from another perspective, which you didn't consider - a lot of people are helping Ukraine because they see it as a short term problem (2 weeks vs more than a decade) and they hope that helping them would prevent problems for the helping party in the future (Russia expanding even more in case they win).
With that said - the results of Russia / Ukraine are much more likely to affect me than the results of the Syrian War or Palestine/Israel which is going on for twice as long as how long I am alive.
Don't take me wrong - I am not saying it is right or that it isn't unfair. I am just saying it is understandable how are people reacting.
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Regarding "Also, from another perspective, which you didn't consider" ... I'm a realist, and the chance that Ukraine will win without help in form of military support is really low. So the only question is, how long Russia will need, to reach their goal. Speaking of "goal", we don't even know the real goal of Russia.
So, a small country like Austria, whose military isn't even as well prepared as the one in Switzerland and which is dependent on some Russian products (like gas), can only lose, if they meddle in this war. So yeah, I would help by absorbing refugees, but not by harming another country (in this case Russia).
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We are pretty much all losing here, no matter what we do or whose side are we trying to understand. We can only hope for some quick solution, such as coup that would overthrow the balance of scales and actually make room for some real peace talks without ultimatums and demands.
Btw just for the picture regarding products and impacts on mid EU countries - when it comes to Russian gas and oil we (as CZ) were taking 88% of our supplies from Moscow. In the last 2 weeks, our gas prices went from 33czk to 53czk and we are not even in shortage yet. Besides that, we have officially approved asylum to 132 995 refugees which is a huge number for 10m country. Our prime minister (P. FIala) then stated that we could be counting with around 450 000 refugees heading here.
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In Austria we get 80% of our supplies from Russia and the prices went up from and to the same level (converted to Euro).
And yes, we would most likely feel these effects even if we wouldn't have supported the sanctions. But according to "Tit for tat", now Russia has a reason for counter measures. So, when things go badly, we've dug our own grave here.
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I am honestly scared as hell because of that but I will use one of my favourite quotes to answer
“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere. When human lives are endangered, when human dignity is in jeopardy, national borders and sensitivities become irrelevant. Wherever men and women are persecuted because of their race, religion, or political views, that place must - at that moment - become the center of the universe.” ― Elie Wiesel
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If neutrality is well executed, then it only helps the neutral state. The best example would be Switzerland in World War II. All around them war, no one was interested in Switzerland, cause they treated all sides the same way. Not to mention the financial gain.
But yeah, now it's too late for such a way.
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Why did no one care when Russia did the same thing to Georgia, or about the issues happening in Yemen right now? Politics, combined with media and being uninformed. A lot of people will chalk this situation up to racism, and perhaps that is part of it, can't say, but the major factor behind all of this is... Our governments are just as bad as many others, self serving, only getting involved when it serves their agenda. Then people for the most part only show any concern once it becomes a wide spread media topic, because people have to virtue signal for the public.
On the topic of racism though, I am amazed how many people talk about the current issues, but I've seen very little mention of the racism that was displayed towards Africans, Indians, and possibly more minorities as they were trying to flee Ukraine as well. Obviously I won't call all Ukrainians racist, but... The ones who are need to cut that shit out, your life is no more valuable than those migrants, and if you want people to sympathize with your suffering, don't cause others to suffer.
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Before judging Ukraine Conflict,
Watch Oliver Stone's The Putin Interviews (TV Series 2017)
Ukraine on Fire (2016)
Revealing Ukraine (2019)
And then You can judge whatever you want.
P.S: I'm not Russian, feel free to blacklist me for this comment.
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"Like his subject matter, Stone has become a controversial figure in American filmmaking, with critics accusing him of promoting conspiracy theories, and of misrepresenting real-world events and figures in his works"
kremlin's media loves this guy. considering "we did not invade" are they same guys that love oliver stone, i wouldn't really rely on his movies.
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Putin says in Revealing Ukraine that Ukrainians and Russians are one nation. Convergence is inevitable. Basically it's a more polite version of the ultra-nationalist Russian viewpoint you can see here on SG threads from a few Russian users, too. Ideologically they see Ukraine (and Belarus) as a part of Russia but as that is not a realistic target currently they'd settle for having them as a junior partner dominated by Russia.
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Yep, whataboutism. People have been on the streets protesting against Palestine war. Guess what? Roseanne Barr called the Irish anti semitic on Twitter because there were protests on the streets of Dublin over Palestine. But then, I'll admit, I don't fully understand the conflict in Palestine. Politics in other parts of the world isn't that easy to understand when you don't live there or speak the local language. You rely on what English speaking sources say. I live in Europe, so I understand Ukraine. (Half the time, I don't understand American politics, and that's okay, I don't live on that continent either.)
Have you reached into your pocket and gave some money to help the people working in war affected areas before the Ukraine war? Generally, people who are like "what about this or that" have never been involved in the protests for change themselves. They just sit behind their computers raging that one thing seems to be getting more attention than the other. Get out there and BE THAT CHANGE.
Each time our country took in a lot of refugees, first Syria and now Ukraine, there are people shouting "WHAT ABOUT THE HOMELESS. Why would you take in a Ukrainian into your home and not a homeless person off the street?" Well, why do they not walk out there, find a homeless person and bring them home?
I absolutely despise this way of thinking because if everyone used whataboutism, nothing would ever get done. Get off your butt and do something. Humans are capable of caring about more than one issue all at the same time.
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I will be honest - you guys are just making me sad. It isn't "I can only care about one or another" and it is perfectly understandable that people are going to care much more about conflicts they have a personal interest in. I am bloody scared that we are just a single bad day from nukes going above our heads since Ukraine is pretty damn close to me and a certain president would rather rule rubble and ash than admit defeat.
I know a girl from Palestine living in Gaza. I studied with a guy from Syria who suddenly came to school and announced that the friends he showed us two days ago are dead. I am teaching a Ukrainian kid who had to run from everything he knew. In the same class, I have a kid whose mother is Russian and he gets blamed for things he doesn't fully understand. All of this sucks and I am glad people care about something important at least because the biggest conflict in my country so far was "EU is making us rename this product because it isn't really butter and this one because it isn't really cheese."
Instead of having civilised discussions as people with the same hobby half of you went fully mental. Flaming one another and insulting anyone who just slightly disagrees.
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if you wouldn't have been on my wl before, you would have gotten on now...
i second this completely. sadly it seems a lot of people can't grassp the world with nuances but see everything in black and white. By doing so the classify everything into right/wrong scenarios and "by not agreeing with me, you must be wrong, because I'm always right".
I wish at some point we can find a way back out from all that polarized worldview.
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Actually, Putin is targeting the US funded bio weapons labs in Ukraine. Putin just brought the evidence before the UN Security Council and the US has admitted we have bio labs but there's nothing harmful there ( well if that's true why the hell do we have to have them in foreign countries then?).
China will soon be invading Taiwan to also go after the US funded bio-weapons labs there and when they bring their evidence forward we will have global military trials just like the Nuremberg trials because this is crimes against humanity.
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I've heard in Putin's news from Putin's officials that ukranians crafted coronavirus bio weapons in american labs in Ukraine and that's how Covid epidemic started.
Plus one more reason to invade Ukraine!
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oh right, got to event new pretexts, as the old "ukraine is controlled by a small group of european neo nazi puppets" quickly turned on its head.
give it enough time to learn they were trying to invoke cthulhu all along. Russians will believe anything except the obvious fact that the war was essentially lost once the president decided we wouldnt be leaving the country
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"well if that's true why the hell do we have to have them in foreign countries"
its called "globalization" and you can gain different benefits from it (to get the workers you need, you probably can safe money on cheaper wages, maybe less buearucracy, better cooperations with other companies / labs,...)
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developing bio-weapons in a foreign countrie is a good thing, is what you are saying. i guess you like covid
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lol... globalozation has nothing to do with Bio weapons and i would be suspecious if a big liar is telling you he makes war to get freedom and cause every other, who dont want to get killed by russians, is just evil...
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you can call me evil or nazi (hey, i´m german^^), special or what ever... but if you have anything intelligent to say, we can continue our conversation in future. have a nice day <3
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Do you understand that Keksinator is citing your comment, in reference to "nothing harmful there" (your words).
That you connect Keksinator comment back to bio weapons either proves that you do not understand English very well or that you just want to stir up trouble.
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Why the hell would the USA have bioweapon labs in Ukraine where those could be easily compromised by Russia? (Not only by direct invasion but also by covert means?)
China will soon be invading Taiwan to also go after the US funded bio-weapons labs there and when they bring their evidence forward we will have global military trials just like the Nuremberg trials because this is crimes against humanity.
Let's be real, probably most superpowers have chemical and bioweapon research programs. I mean, Russia has openly flaunted their capabilities. Haven't you heard about the Skripal case?
I highly doubt China will invade Taiwan any time soon. Firstly both China and Taiwan are a lot more integrated into the world economy than Russia. China has risen in the current world order, they are doing great in it. Secondly Taiwan is a close ally of the US, an invasion there would devolve into a direct conflict between China and the USA. The global economy would most likely crash and burn in that scenario even if we avoided a nuclear war.
But let's say you are right and China invades Taiwan and even wins the conflict. How would that result in global military trials? The USA would never submit themselves to that, they don't recognize the International Criminal Court either.
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Why the hell would the USA have bioweapon labs in Ukraine where those could be easily compromised by Russia? (Not only by direct invasion but also by covert means?)
Because they can. Because they're arrogant. Because it's an advantageous staging area if they decide to use them. Because they don't give a shit what happens to the people in these locations if there is an incident.
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I mean, it's possible but it would be extremely stupid. Even if the invasion was out of the picture it would still be like openly inviting Russia to infiltrate the project. And I don't see why bioweapons would need to be developed close to possible staging areas. I'd expect them to be easily transportable and developing them close to conflict regions is a huge risk.
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I see your point. But I would never claim it was smart. That's why I led with arrogance. If you read the article above below about Nuland that I linked here, you will get an idea how that might figure in to such decisions. As for staging areas - I admit, I don't really know the answer to that. I have learned that these agents are fragile, tend to degrade and are less effective with certain delivery systems, and who knows - maybe transporting such material in airspace above your allies in war time might be a very bad idea.
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The US funds these labs in foreign countries so as to avoid charges of violating the UN's Biological Weapons Convention. Victoria Nuland (one of the key people who brought us the Iraq war and the 2014 coup in Ukraine) also states her concern that these "research materials" might fall into the hands of the Russians and that they are working on getting those materials destroyed first. Clearly this indicates that these material are not harmless. Meanwhile, the legacy press scurries to repeat the unsubstantiated claims put forth by the US State Dept as irrefutable fact. Nothing to see here.
If China invades Taiwan, I doubt the world court will be listening to anything they have to say. Even if they did, I wouldn't wait underwater for any Nuremberg style trials.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5005520/senator-rubio-questions-undersecretary-nuland-biolabs-ukraine
https://www.salon.com/2021/01/19/who-is-victoria-nuland-a-really-bad-idea-as-a-key-player-in-bidens-foreign-policy-team/
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"Clearly this indicates that these material are not harmless"
Wow, the stupid is strong with you.
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Valuable does not equal harmful.
Like say they had the cure for stupid in the lab, they would surely want to destroy it before you could get a dose.
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Well that's not much to go on, but I'll try to extrapolate. So, are you saying that your interpretation is that she doesn't want these "materials" to fall into Russian hands because she doesn't want them to have nice things, and not because they present a danger? Again, the personal attacks. You have a nice day.
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That news is just some shitty propaganda, they are playing on the words "bio lab" because when a complotist see those word he think "bio weapons lab". For exemple when you study the flu for create a vaccin, you need a "bio lab", that nothing new really.
Russia has 6255 nuclear warheads and USA has 5550 nuclear warheads. (I'm not sure of the accuraccy of those numbers)
When a country gather thousands of nuke bombs, he will probably build bio WEAPONS labs, but he will keep those installations inside his country. That's true for both Russia and USA. I wouldn't be surprised ether if China has also build bio WEAPONS labs.
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NO!
Biolabs do research on dangerous diseases and potential vaccines/cures. There is no reason to believe that Ukraine is doing anything bad there. This accusation that they are producing bio weapons is insane. They are just looking for more reasons to continue with the invasion in case any one doesn't believe the Nazi version.
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Welcome to the world, double standards are everywhere around you.
For starters, just take a look around your environment how, rich, politicians and highly influential individuals are taken care of much better than random citizens.
How many stuff they do is swept under the rug like nothing happened, but if some random mortal does the same thing, is immediately punished for it.
Its the same for world, some countries are much more important than rest.
IT IS REALLY WRONG, but that´s the way the people are, majority of people are very wrong and bad.
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Why go into the world - just look here. The richer you are and the more giveaways you have created, the more giveaways can you enter in return due to level restrictions. No matter what you do or how are you as a person, money will open many doors.
The world isn't fair, never was and probably never will be. That is just a reality of it.
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Still crying about getting your asses whooped in 48 and 67 I see.
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So it's really inhuman that Vladimir Putin is invading Ukraine and persecuting its people, fine, but why is it okay for the Israeli government to persecute the Palestinians? Everyone who got something to say against the president of Russia, are they all located witin 500 miles of the war inflicted areas? Why then turn a blind eye when it comes to Israel's oppression against the Palestine and its people which has been going on for decades?
I personally know a Palestinian family that fled to Lebanon, got Dominican Republic passport and settled in the UAE because of the oppression of the Israeli government; a colleague who lost his older sister in the bombings of Syria and never got her dead body; a friend who, after graduation, left for his homeland Yemen and his whereabouts are still unknown to this day. Ignorants who refer to this post as whataboutism are generally opinionated and will only repeat what the corrupt media shows them. At least I don't sound like a broken record. I ain't here to divert attention from Ukraine but no one race or group or country deserves more sympathy than the other just because they are in europe. Butthurts can go ahead and blacklist me, see if I care.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu2uI0gZD-c
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