+1
Getting suspended over this bagatelle is way to harsh in my view, a warning would had been totally sufficient. I mean it's not like Robby is some kind of troublemaker.
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+1
There’s a lot of general negativity in the world. More kindness is good.
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You want warning? It's steamgifts! Ban first think later!
Especially if it's made up rule.
unless you are friends with certain moderators - then it's fine
double standards ftw!!!
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You can also apple polish SteamGifts staff. It creates immunity.
There's one user in this forums that is doing this a lot, even necro'ing staff's (very) old threads to do that.
He also creates something around one thread per two weeks just to toady some of SteamGifts staff.
Nothing happened. Staff seems to enjoy and throw some confetti to that sometimes. It is amusing, I must say.
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"I just try to live in the rules as best as possible" <<
With unwritten rules that doesn't apply for all users ... thats the problem to be successful at it ;o)
PS.: A lot from the staff members are in my whitelist, thats a sign that i like them and i would say this ones are nice/friendly people BUT that doesn't count for all from the staff members.
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A one day suspension is a warning, and it's a warning that cannot be argued all over and disrupt the forums.
This should have remained in support tickets, but instead it's turned into a witch-hunt.
I honestly can't believe the over-reaction people are having to a 24 hour vacation from the forums (I've had one myself, and guess what? No thread). I'm not sure how they'll ever get a real job, a bank loan, or be able to go within 500 yards of a school with this scarlet letter on their chest..
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He was mocking support for issuing the very warnings you want so much. We don't need that sort of disruption around here. We don't need every user arguing every warning, and every other indignant user joining the fray. We don't need a thousand written rules when everything around here basically amounts to "don't be a fucking douche-bag."
If they want a friendlier community, they need to be the change.
It has nothing to do with being "unfriendly" and everything to do with keeping the drama off the forums.
That should apply to all users as much as support. Every support reaction begins with an action from a user.
I don't kiss anyone's ass, much less support's. It's obvious you don't know my history with them (I've been suspended numerous times), but feel free to ask 'em sometime. You just don't see it because I keep it to support tickets, as it should be.
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First you dismiss what I've said by implying I'm just kissing ass (which was wrong), and now you're trying to dismiss it by saying you've had supervisory roles and moderator positions (which I've also held and currently hold).
So yes, we'll just be done here and agree to disagree.
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On the topic of necroing in general, I hate when people say not to necro. I personally think it should be encouraged. There is no reason to keep creating new thread when we already have one on the topic and can add to it to keep all the information in one spot and easier for everyone to find. Creating a bunch of threads about the same things just creates clutter and confusion.
While I think necroing should be encouraged, I think it should be against the rules for a user to intentionally necro old threads with no purpose other than trolling. Bumping old threads all the time without adding anything to the topic would be very annoying because people are going to see the threads and think they are new. This will create confusion and if it is not against the rules, there is nothing stopping people from just bumping tons of old topics to troll people.
About your situation, I really don't see why you would have posted that specific comment 2 years later. That user either doesn't trade on SG anymore or they have learned the rule because if they kept trying in other threads they would have ended up with a suspension. It could have been a mistake and maybe you just happened to end up on that thread and didn't realize it was so old, but it also can look like your were trolling because there was no need to post that specific comment 2 years later.
I think the suspension was a bit harsh and a warning would make much more sense in this situation, unless you have done the same thing in the past and have already been warned.
I did not know about this rule and I think something should be added to the guidelines if it is not there. It should say something about not bumping very old threads if you are not adding anything constructive. This may get confusing though because I think there are legitimate reasons to bring old threads back, even if they are many years old. This will be another rule that will be up to each moderators opinion and interpretation of the rule and I'm sure there will be disagreements.
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In my opinion, at least all those things that, can lead to a member being suspended without warning, should be explicitly stated in rules/guidelines. It's surprising, that both spam and necro is omitted there; I believe, that they should be added to general guidelines.
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the Content is not spam, is not machine or randomly-generated, and does not contain unethical or unwanted commercial content designed to drive traffic to third party sites or boost the search engine rankings of third party sites, or to further unlawful acts (such as phishing) or mislead recipients as to the source of the material (such as spoofing);
There is rule about spam here.
Although what is and what is not spam depends on whether mods like you or not :)
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I must admit, that I have never read the "Terms of Service" before, and even now I've just took a look at it. Having to be precise in legal terms for site's security, it's written in such a way, that it's at least not an easy read for most people... a common case for almost every ToS.
Actually, even the Help tab and The Guidelines don't mention it at all. With Guidelines, not ToS, being obviously what an average user is expected to read, and listing other obvious stuff, like "posting content, it should respect the privacy and rights of others", I still believe, that they should include all categories of offensive content. But thanks for pointing this out to me :)
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ToS, Guidelines and FAQ. That's my another problem. Why there are rules in 3 different places? What with new users?
Add to that mods attitude - banning without warning and some people will simply stop to visit forums or even contribute to site as whole.
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So just discovered that SteamGifts staff do whatever they want whenever they want in a very arbitrary way. You must be new here.
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Never heard of this rule and I'm here almost since the very beginning. Even on forums where that rule is written down and actively enforced, people are usually warned at least once not to do it.
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If you don't mind me asking, how long did you get suspended for? Hope it wasn't long, that seems really minor in context.
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Since it's a really minor issue and you've never had troubles in the past, I changed the default suspension length of 2 days to 1 day, which is the minimum duration I'm able to apply to a suspension.
That was 6 hours after initially being suspended, so it was around 30 hours total
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Meh, everyone knows that necroing an old thread on any forum is going to be frowned upon. Especially if you've been around during the heyday of forums.
SG doesn't have a PM system to allow for polite warnings/reminders and it doesn't have a profile infraction system to give people lesser punishments for forum shenanigans. Maybe it should. Mods are working with the tools they have and those tools might be a little harsh for some things. Of course it depends on who sees the necro too... that generally depends on whether they let it slide, or slap you a suspension. Afterall, each mod is a human and decisions are not always completely consistent.
On other places, necroing is usually handled with a polite reminder to stop necroing followed by post deletions and/or a thread lock. If the user continues necroing old threads, they get a forum infraction. If that doesn't work, suspension.
Necroing is fine in my book if it's done to add something worthwhile to the discussion. BUT... not after 2 years. If the thread is really old,(older than 6 months) start a new thread and reference the thing from the old one that prompted you to want to discuss it. The people who were posting in the old discussion might not be active anymore, so it's pointless continuing there and that's why forum owners and staff frown on it. It's like shitting all over a legacy thread, when you could just start a new thread. Let the people who are active NOW start over and have their say. That's the "legal" way to get around necroing.
You posted to spam/joke around, not to add anything relevant to a discussion, and you met a mod who didn't find it funny. Just the way the cookie crumbles, unfortuantely.
Glad you're back though. I wouldn't worry too much about that suspension. The crime was really silly and not likely to be a massive black mark to your account. ^^
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Damn, I'd better go make a thread about being suspended for posting a Monty Python song in the music thread.
Oh wait, no -- I don't give a shit and let it go. :3
You were being a smart-ass and trolling -- same as I was (the mods aren't complete idiots, at least no more so than any other user) -- and you got your hand slapped (same as I did). One day is nothing lmao. You got like a "diet suspension", and I really don't think we need a rule about Monty Python necroing threads to troll or be a smartass.
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I don't get it. Why is posting a Monty Python song in the music thread a suspendable offense? That thread is designed for users to share music with each other.
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The point isn't the details, it's that the context in which a comment is made is just as important as the content, and is always taken into consideration when a suspension is applied.
TLDR: Sometimes it looks like someone didn't deserve a suspension when they really did.
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Sometimes, someone makes an effort to appear as if he or she didn't deserve a suspension when they really did.
Fixed it for you.
P.S.(I may not always agree with you, Tzaar, but I do admire your propensity for being forthright.)
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I admire you for admiring his tenacity of being forthright although I do not always agree with or admire you. ;)
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I once had strings, but now I'm free.
There are no strings on me.
(Honestly, I feel bad you folks have to deal with this stupid melodramatic shit.)
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It is your choice whether or not to divulge your private exchange with Support, but cropping the quote and posting it out of context is disingenuous.
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Support > Unsuspend Request > RobbyRatpoison
RobbyRatpoison - I didn't break any rules AFAIK but please let me know if I am missing something. I looked through the Community Guidelines and FAQ but didn't find any rules about "necroing" threads (or "inappropriate behavior" for that matter.) I made my comment because of staff member(s) responding to old comments that were clearly not requesting trades but just mentioned the word. It's not fair to punish users for breaking rules that don't exist; if you want a rule against "necroing" threads then make one.
Staff - The FAQ and guidelines are there to guide users in the right directions. Beyond that point, it's expected that users and staff will use common sense when using the website.
If you genuinely don't see the difference between a staff member replying to relatively recent comments and you replying to a buried years old thread (not to mention that, since you are not a staff member, you were being overzealous anyway), then you're showing a real lack of self-awareness.
RobbyRatpoison - I know there's a difference, I was poking fun with my thread revival where the staff member was genuinely warning the user. I wasn't trying to say that they are the same, just pointing out where my inspiration came from since people seemed confused in their responses to my comment.
I respect the staff and what you guys do but I thought warning people for trading, when the person pretty clearly didn't intend to invite trades through SG, was a bit silly. Is it really the fact that I revived an old thread for a joke, or was it because the joke I made was deemed inappropriate? Was it because of the staff being on the receiving end? If my behavior is truly unwelcome I'd like to know what specifically was to blame so I can do better
Staff - You're welcome to disagree and criticise staff decisions (as long as you still comply), but the way you did so here is just petty and not constructive (which by itself is not the reason for the suspension).
Commenting in an old thread would be acceptable if you had some new relevant information regarding its topic, but it's simply not the case here, it's just disruptive and confusing for anyone who is not aware of what you're referring to. So that part is the exact reason for the suspension.
Staff - Since it's a really minor issue and you've never had troubles in the past, I changed the default suspension length of 2 days to 1 day, which is the minimum duration I'm able to apply to a suspension.
RobbyRatpoison - Thanks for the reduced sentence, I'll make sure my future jokes/criticism is contained to active threads or create a new thread if it seems necessary. Also I appreciate the explanation so I can continue to use the site as it is intended.
We probably don't want a rule against commenting on old threads, as it could dissuade people from updating threads when something relevant happens. But I think if it's going to remain an unwritten rule maybe a warning should be given first.
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Was it because of the staff being on the receiving end?
So the previous, deleted comment was from a staff? That's some juicy stuff! :D
Alrite, gotta head out, take care~
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So the previous, deleted comment was from a staff?
No, I meant that the joke was about the staff behavior at the time
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In that case you should have just take the blame. People have been suspended for over two weeks for mocking the moderators in a constant and "subtle" way. Now I get what Sooth was saying.
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It is common for Staff to delete their comments when they no longer apply.
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Oic, its a personal annoyance to see just a deleted comment there, not knowing the context or just threads simply filled with blanks of deleted comments. Kind of a little OCD here so it always bother me . . . a little, hahaha. I didn't know staff will delete messages too though. I always thought the user were the ones that deleted their comments. Thank you for the info. :)
Edit, just saw you mentioning that CG or the user deletes the comment. A little confused on whether or not a staff deleted the comment but not a biggie. Cheers~
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It is possible that the deleted message was from a Support member. In the past, I have posted comments for administrative purposes (e.g. asking a poster to remove a link), and once that has been done, there is no longer a need for the comment and I delete it. Sometimes, however, I leave such comments, even after compliance, for one or more reasons (e.g. a warning to others who might make the same mistake in the same thread). When moderating, Support tries to be as "hands-off" and low-impact as possible, but some situations require us to be actively involved and visible.
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Still not clear what he was suspended for. Disrupting and confusing users? If that's the case I think there are quite a few other people that could be suspended...
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chapeau, Khalaq.
also, cause i'm very cheesy (and i like it): https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/sKq3M/death-to-spies-moment-of-truth
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Robby, you're good fellow forumer imo. However in this case, I can understand why you're suspended though the comment you are replying to is deleted. A little harsh yes, a warning 1st perhaps if you did not receive one.
Its a 2yr comment, not even sure if the previous commentator is still using SG or will even response to your comment. There might be changes and such happening on SG behind the scene recently as they had finally gotten more people and able to look at some backlog issues. As a mod before for various chat, I'll say this. Most of the time, let the mods do the moderating is what they say. You can be as helpful as you can be or just a little jest which gets you in trouble in this case. Best way if you think its a violation, sent a ticket. If you're in the mood of jesting pick a closer dated comment. ;)
I hope you don't take the suspension too hard and moved on with it. I do agree rules need to be written. "Common Sense" and "General Forum Netiquettes" are too broad. Not every human being knows how to be polite and courteous or have common sense even when told not to do something straight in the face. "Numbskull" is word for such reasons. When in doubt though, always file a ticket to our friendly moderators imho. ;)
Cheerios~
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Whether its a rule or not, its STUPID. Plenty of necro goes on in the Trainz forums, to help new players with older stuff. It's just assinine to
suspend someone for commenting on something. It wasnt a flame or anything, so if ya dont like it... dont look. That simple.... Or are we really that petty and have nothing better to do?? While the op probably should have just said eh, that was a long time ago, and moved on, I feel they have the right to say what they want if they feel compelled enough to actually say something. Neco can be used to gain information for a new user or whatever the circumstance, no website, admin, or whoever should be allowed to censor just because of a number. OK, rant over
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That's what everyone has been saying all this time, it's OK if there actually is some new information. In this case there was none.
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Those are help threads and very different to what is being discussed in this thread. If someone posted a game guide here 2 years ago and I went and replied to it today to add a new or improved strategy, it's not a problem. In that case, I would be adding useful information to a thread that is still relevant to the community. Someone bumping an old informational thread isn't what would be classed as a necro. The same goes for the people who run certain event threads and like to keep them all in one place. Nothing wrong with that.
Threads like this one right here being bumped 2 years later are pointless. That's a necro. If I wanted to discuss something random, I'd first search for threads within the last while. If there isn't one, or the last post in a thread was a long time ago, I wouldn't necro it, I'd start a new thread.
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After the rules are done.
Do you want to crack down on what happened before the rule was done?
”Ex post facto law”
It may be better to add this kind of thing to the FAQ.
I hope that no such thing will happen except in some "country where people's will take precedence over the law".
At least, in me, RobbyRatpoison is innocent.
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Just bad moderation... good mod teams would handle this with deleting and a warning... but we have SG trash mod system that never changes...
Thanks Cg !!!!!
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There is no "deletion" here at SteamGifts unless you happen to be CG or the original author. Whether or not that is a good thing has been greatly debated.
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Necrophilia is illegal, necroing a thread, may or may not be against someones rules, but not illegal.
Thread subject just doesn't look right.
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Maybe the thread could be automatically closed after a while without new post. It would avoid people to bring back old threads while those are still available for "historical" purposes...
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Problems like this have been solved like a thousand years ago. ✌
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Maybe they should make posts more then 30 days NOT BUMP?
Seems like a better solution to me. -_-
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Thanks for sharing this, Robby.
As a newcomer, I should learn all this from the FAQ, not threads. And things like “unwritten rules” and “1-day suspension as a warning” instead of polite warning shouldn’t exist.
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I tought you got banned cause they perceived it as "mocking a mod"
If it was for the necro that's beyond silly. But really sure it was the first.
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Necroposting might be annoying/frowned on, but certainly never illegal.
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Damn, sorry about that.
As a person who just got out of a suspension, I definitely was a bit confused as to why I got suspended. Or, well, why I was the only one to get suspended. It was a situation where I was happy that others didn't get punished since there was never any harm done, but I'm not scuffed that I was punished.
Just like with your situation, where others do the same thing you do, yet you're the one punished. For me, my offense was more obvious though, but since unofficially every thread had those offenses unpunished, I got comfortable with it.
I personally approve of any rules that are punishable to be specified. What you did went against classic community forum etiquette, but they should punish only for rules that are relatively directly spelled out. Necroing threads isn't among them from what I can see (and even the context added shows that it's lacking).
Thanks for sharing your experience. It's good to have a word of warning. You might've saved someone from a suspension.
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I was suspended without warning for replying to a comment in an old thread. The quote above is part* of the official response I received from a staff member. I am making this thread as a (suggestion to add this information to / warning to others because it isn't mentioned in the) rules or FAQ.
Edit: Here's the offending comment for context
Edit 2: Thanks to eeev for additional context
Edit 3: More context*
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