Build one, works out about the same price if you source it well
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If you compare GTA3 and GTA4 - it's "technologies". But if you compare Jamestown with any old game - it's wasting of resources.
http://goo.gl/IaCoj
http://goo.gl/4T4b4
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U want to see 2-3 normal games coming out in a year? This "easy way" makes game developing faster.
Anyway, it's not programmers fault, it's stupidity of users like you. Stop thinking that you can be smarter than people who actually making this things.
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You can't compare Jamestown with an NES game. Sure, the graphics are made to look retro, but the NES would never be able to handle that many sprites onscreen at once.
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Guys, i have modern computer. Look at my achievement in Steam. Do you think GTA4, Payday or L4D works on this laptop? Ha-ha-ha.
But i don't need laptop with modern CPU and battery-eating videocard for type some texts outside.
I don't ask why GTA5 will require good PC for run. But all games above - it's casual arcades. I have similar on very old consoles, like NES (less 2 MHz) or Sega (about 8 MHz).
Why oldscool programmers were able to create games, which works without any problems on very slow CPU, but new can't do it?
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Listen little idiot
Yes idiot
if the game runs slow on your computer THEN its a rendering issue aka your laptop is shit
How the flying god do you think it has to go with game programmers srsly?
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@alvarothewolf .Lol .You dont know importance of programming kid.How old are you?
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install latest xna framework (it should come with the game and be installed on first run from steam), also .net and for some bizarre reason start windows media player
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Good advice. Now it (TokiTori) starts. But crashes after it and suggest to contact developers.
But my system doesn't meet minimum requirements, so... I'm not sure that they will try to solve it.
Anyway - why minimum requirements so high (another question - why this game installed XNA before first run, but i still need to install latest version of XNA by myself)?
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Thing is that actually steam installed xna on first run of the game, it's steam installation that got it wrong :), requirements are what they are because developers used xna, it works good on modern pc's and on xbox and win pone so it's good choice if you wish to easily port your game over those systems but on the down side if you use it you have it's requirements which aren't that high but TokiTori doesn't use half of the thing xna has under the hud.
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I totally have to agree on this.
My laptop runs stuff like King Arthur or Orcs must Die! just fine, but eg Binding of Isaac, which looks really plain and simple (even though it's an awesome game and I love oldschool graphics) sometimes severely slows down to like ~50% of it's designated speed. That just shouldn't happen,..
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that's a flash related issue. i can run orcs must die perfectly fine, but any flash game like TRAUMA or BoI runs like shit.
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Actually they are, TRAUMA is the only one where this is obvious though. Run TRAUMA in a window, note "Adobe Flash Player" on the title bar of the window. Binding of Isaac uses a wrapper, I believe, so it IS Flash, but with a Steam-API-friendly program around it. Check out the demo, available on Newgrounds -- in Flash format. It looks exactly the same in game as the full version.
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Firstly, laptops aren't really made for gaming... Although my 1.7 GHz laptop runs those games and a few others just fine.
Secondly, you probably haven't updated any video drivers or downloaded the necessary software, such as XNA Framework and .NET Framework (newest version). That stuff is usually included in the steam first launch thingy, but for some games like Terraria it is not.
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He's saying that many modern games could run on laptops like his if the Programmers weren't "lazy" for not optimizing their games perfectly to the point where it could run in older machines easily, when they could with enough effort and work. They don't do it because modern computers are here and it's a lot easier not to.
But I could care less. Modern Computers are here, and are cheap.
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Hey, i don't want to run ModernWarfare3 or ArkhamCity on this laptop. Just 2D arcade.
Before first run it updates my DirectX, XNA, VC and something else (depends on game). And after all things installed, i should install it by myself.
And anyway, all these games has minimal system requirements, and it's very high, according to game.
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If your "videocard doesnt support XNA" then yeah its definetly the programmers fault there.
They should be killed with fire.
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You sir are ignorant and deserve much worse than being killed with fire, using your scale of appropriate deaths. If your video card doesn't support it then it was your fault for buying an XNA game, or supporting the obviously retarded graphics card model by buying it.
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As a programmer I feel offended, it's not a problem because of the programmers themselves but rather the tools they chose to use. Now, if they're using, say, 3 year old libraries, which count on videocards being able to do something that every videocard in the last 5 years has been able to do, of course your 10 year old computer will have problems.
Now, are they being lazy by using those tools? Arguably, but you obviously know nothing about programming, so you have no idea how much things like XNA simplify game programming.
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My computer is not 10 years old. It's first.
I know something about programming, i also create some software (it's internal and need only to process some databases in our company). But if i will ask my boss to buy new server every year, because old one is not good enough, he will be not so happy. And i almost always spent some time to optimize program, remove some redundant calculation and so on.
I'm not game developer... But i don't think that games requirements should be like this.
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You can keep the same server all the time you want ...
But the performance is going to diminish and eventually you'll have to change the server.
You can not live forever with a 1.4 Hz (just cause your pc can not live forever)
And surely you optimize the program for free because your boss does not pay you for that
But don´t think that a developer will work more for less... eventually the product prices will increase for the extra work
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That's like Hitler telling you to become a politician or move to a different country if you want things to be different.
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uhhh yeah if you don't want Hitler running your country then move to another country where Hitler is not ruling, therefore you get what you want. Perfect logic. The point of his post however was to try to make him get some respect for the programmers.
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I know right? I can't run Skyrim on my cellphone either, those bastards.
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Your laptop is clearly a piece of shit if it can't play games like that. All you keep saying is "wank wank wank 1.4ghz wank wank" and all that tells us is that you have a laptop. 1.4GHz means nothing, post the hardware. Just goes to show how little about computers you know, that's why you fucking check the minimum requirements before you buy a game. If it doesn't work then talk to their support and if XNA won't run at all stop being so analmad and talk to your graphics card company.
Such a butthurt little child, you wouldn't be able to play GTA 3 or 4 if programmers didn't program it. Try making your own game, get some respect, grow up and learn to use a computer.
</rant>
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inb4 1.4GHz Celeron with 128mb of DDR RAM with 16mb integrated chip running Windows 7.
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What you want to know?
CPU - Celeron M 360 (Dothan-1024 core)
Memory - 768Mb DDR (256 + 512)
Video - Integrated Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME
I'm not checking minimum requirement when i buy games, because i have desktop and it's have enough power to run modern games.
But if you read all thread slowly, you have chance to understand my opinion.
I expect to run such casual games on my "old like a mammoth shit" laptop.
I feel some butt-hurt in your word. You are one of the TokiTori developers? Or you made Jamestown?
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Lol a CPU and GPU chip from 2004, and DDR RAM. You don't meet the requirements for any modern games by a longshot, I don't even see why you're complaining. You should expect to barely be able to run XP and browse the web at the same time. I have a desktop with similar specs to that except with a graphics card and it runs games from 2004 and earlier fine.
Casual game =/= fast game dumbass. Jamestown has to control the AI for all the enemies at once which can be stressful on 2004 computers as well as Terraria where there's all the AI and the new lighting which checks the colour of the block and filters the colour based on it's colour (so for every block that light has to pass through, it needs to do this math calculation 60 times a second).
I see where your opinion comes from. It comes from ignorance. Also holy shit I was more or less right about your computer specs except for the amount of RAM, no doubt upgraded from 256 though so not that far off on your original machine.
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An integrated graphics card. From intel. From 2004. Oh wow.
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I think a lot of flak you're getting from these posters are unwarranted. A lot of new games aren't being optimized and because of new frameworks, libraries and other various aids it makes it even easier for new developers to accidentally make mistakes.
The best example of this that comes to my mind is Magicka, I get more FPS in TF2 than I do Magicka. There really isn't any excuse to why Magicka should be running worse than TF2. XNA makes it very easy for fledging programmers to hop into making a game and for a lot of XNA games it's very apparent. I don't fault them too much though because making a game is a ridiculous amount of work, problems can crop up even in the most seasoned and professional team and especially for smaller teams it's very hard to get enough hardware to have a diverse test bed AND find time to test it.
Just something I've noticed with games that use the XNA framework, the few indie games that didn't use XNA generally ran much better. Now is that a fault of the programmers or XNA I am not sure, because finding a nice well running XNA game is fairly hard; but possible...
tl;dr: I think it all comes down to that modern computers are very forgiving and can run even the trashiest code at decent speeds.
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Indie games never perform well because they don't have a big enough dev team to be able to make the required changes to have a well optimized game. Magicka's dev team isn't as big as Valve's dev team. That is a very valid excuse. All the hate and rage being directed at him is just, as by posting any opinion about stuff like that is sure to get such harsh responses. If a programmer made a game in XNA and you hate XNA because "oh the developers are so lazy using it" then don't buy it. Simple as that.
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How much of my reply did you read, because I touched upon that.
The truth is they take shortcuts or are inexperienced. I think OP has a very valid reason for being angry, especially at the prices some of these games are at. As far as having a smaller dev team somehow justifying that, what's their excuse when other indie devs can pump out very polished games that run well?
Everyone seems to be posting snide and rude remarks even though the truth is it is a very real problem that some programmers are making these mistakes/taking shortcuts, and you don't just see it in games. You see it in all software being released. Like I said, modern computers can hide pretty horrid performance these days.
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Some developers are bad. Don't buy their games and they will die out. Of course they are usually less experienced, a job with EA games which requires experience in the industry pays way more than indie devs do, so all the experienced go there once they have gotten experience with indie devs. I read your whole reply, I'm not sure if you noticed but I addressed pretty much everything you touched base with. The excuse for a smaller dev team not being able to pump out well polished games is that statement is usually false as I find indie games have way more thought and polish put in to them.
That aside, a programmer isn't just good at everything by default. There are many specific specialties within the programming sector, from 2D rendering, to networking, to program structuring. I have a slow computer and I do notice all the flaws, pretty much none because I know how to properly use and maintain a computer as well as buy games for my computer that work.
Also you're pretty much saying that if he got a better computer then he'd get better performance, pretty much everybody's argument ITT.
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No code is perfect when it comes to making a game with the need to put so much in it. An i5 with a good graphics card can handle anything on the market on high. That is good enough. And in 10 years if you want to be able to play all the latest games on high then it's time to upgrade that i5. He is trying to game on a laptop that is of an unknown age, and thinking that just because a game is casual and laid back that it should run well just because it's casual.
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OP's complaining that PC games won't run on a laptop that doesn't even have a dedicated graphics card, though.
Yes, there are plenty of indie games out there that came out not coded well at ALL (Minecraft, I am so looking at you), but optimize them all you want, they're still not gonna run on a laptop without a graphics card.
I've been gaming on laptops for ages, and I think the laptop I bought in 2004 for $600 outspecs the one this person has. And it was bad for gaming.
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It terrible!
Toki Tori - 2D arcade doesn't work on my 1.4GHz laptop, because videocard doesn't support XNA or something like this. Terraria same.
Jamestown looks like scroll-shooter from NES, but it just exit without any message.
Why???
Godlikes Grand Theft Auto 3 and Max Payne require less resources.
It's terrible. I think that guys, who ask me to buy modern computer to play such casual games should be killed with fire.
====================================================
UPD: Especially for smartest indie developers in the world, who is so lazy and couldn't read all thread. (Or may be they just able to code, but not able to read, i'm not sure)
1) I have enough powerful desktop. It runs all games listed above, and also run some games with bigger requirements.
2) I have some coding experience (not game-development related)
3) Yes, Jamestown not looks like NES game, it looks like Sega Genesis game. It's my mistake. Sega is much more powerfull console (it has 8 MHz CPU against 2 MHz in NES).
4) Only game developer may judge is game complicated or not. I'm just miserable customer, who should buy games and new hardware for it.
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