'anti islam', 'anti inmigration' and 'anti communists' is still no definition of racism. But just keep pulling that racism card over and over and in time no one will give any attention to your moral superiority.
It's not the devs, but you who sickens me.
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+1
Besides, I would like him to find one Polish resident who isn't anti-communist. It's strongly related to out history. Same thing as anti-nazi thing.
And anti-Islam is self-explanatory. Most people I know are anti-Islam. Not surprising really if you watch news on regular basis.
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Yeah, you're right. I don't know how in hell I didn't think about that when I was writing that post. However, most Poles are anti-communist and it's perfectly fine because communism was fucked up. And OP made it sound like they were some criminals because of being anti-communist lol.
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"EDIT: The Devs are Racists
The CEO of this company called Jaroslaw Zielinski is affiliated with the Polska Liga Obrony, a group that is anti islam and anti inmigration.
Another producer of the game can be seen dressed with military clothes from the Żołnierze Wyklęci, they are associated with Freikorps, which is a group of anti communists german volunteers."
OP confirmed for not knowing the definition of racism.
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Your post confirmed for actual or intentional ignorance of the fact that most racists groups try to disguise themselves as "merely" anti-immigration or anti-radical-Islam.
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Because thinking those issues are important instantly makes you racist. Fucking left-winged douchebag.
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Yup, classic Strawman. Someone says they disagree with a policy or statement of "Group X" and the counter-argument is "Well you're just a sexist/bigot/racist/etc".
The "social justice" people love to do this as it deflects any criticism. Disagree with a feminist? Misogynist! Etc, etc.
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You don't know me and I don't know you so I won't get into an argument about this. I don't fall in the feminist/mysoginist trap but I don't think it has much to do with this case.
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It was just an example. All I was saying is that it's a slippery slope to assume that anytime someone has an issue with something that may relate to a certain group, that doesn't mean that person is bigoted against said group.
Jumping to conclusions and hurling out "-isms" only serves to cause more anger and less meaningful discussion.
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No, it doesn't. Those are legitimate issues and racism is a different matter. But nowadays most racists don't have the guts to openly state their views and hide behind those issues. Fucking hypocrite right-wing coward?
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I think the OP stated his case clearly enough. If you don't think my comment relates, I can oly invite you to research that Polska Liga Obrony and either confirm or change your opinion.
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I'm just saying that being against Islam, immigrants or communists (or any other religion or political ideology for that matter) has nothing to do with racism, for obvious reasons. You may think that "most" of them are racists as well, but that's your opinion, not a fact.
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I can do the same thing in GTA, yet the character(s) in GTA are usually thugs, psychopaths, affiliated with drugs in some way, etc. This game, well... I don't see much of a difference. To be honest, i'd buy it, i wouldn't play it infront of others though.
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GTA characters in story aren't raving nutcases.... unless you count Trevor who's basically the typical GTA made an actual character.
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Not wanting to contribute to the income of someone who's xenophobic, exclusive and hateful world views diametrically oppose your own has nothing to do with fascism. Opposing fascism by passively refraining from supporting it or the success of people who espouse it has nothing to do with fascism.
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So? Some people say that cucumbers taste better pickled.
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Racist? I'm not sure you understand what the word means.
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Jumping? While a few of these were patriots, people like NSZ were often just as bad or even worse than Nazis. Worse, because they were far more efficient in finding hidden Jews - like eliminating quite a few survivors of Jewish Ghetto uprising. They are glorified today by IPN while all "inconvenient" details about ethnic cleansing, murders, robbery and what we would today call terrorism are swept under the carpet just because they were anti-communist.
My grandpa was anti-communist Pildsudski Legionnaire from Lvov who fought in both world wars, almost ended up in Katyn, then barely survived UPA pogroms - yet he always said he found NSZ and like scum even worse than these genociders. So nope, OP doesn't jump to conclusions. Polska Liga Obrony is hate circle we would be better off without :|
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I completely disagree. What you say about sweeping things under a rug seems like a conspiracy theory. And of course it's impossible to prove anything bad you say about them - how convenient. Most of them were patriots and great patriots they were at that! They were fighting for Poland and things we lost.
Also, where did you get idea that they were finding hidden jews? Many polish people were hiding Jews to help them survive during World War II and many Poles lost their lives for that. It's only assumed that NSZ had negative feelings about Jews but it's not confirmed. There are many various statements, some people claim NSZ killed jews and some claim that they wouldn't even think about that. Unless there's hard proof they're innocent of that. Which wouldn't be surprising because like I said, they were patriots fighting against injustice and tyranny. They would never become things they were fighting against.
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"They would never become things they were fighting against."
You mean, like has happened throughout history many, many times? You mean, this concept which has formed the basis for a lot of stories and their morals, being an intrinsic part of human nature and a typical human foible? Right, that would never happen, surely.
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We're talking about Polish patriots here. I learned a lot about them and I know what I'm talking about. It's history. And there's no proof to what he's talking about, just some people's opinion (yay, there's always blame and there are always cynic people trying to look for faults in others year and YEARS later who have no slightest idea of what they're talking about).
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"if the game is popular it might appear on Xbox One and PS4"
ahahahahaha
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This part drove me mad:
"Another producer of the game can be seen dressed with military clothes from the Żołnierze Wyklęci, they are associated with Freikorps, which is a group of anti communists german volunteers."
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Lemme educate you a bit about formation called Żołnierze Wyklęci (eng. Cursed or Damned Soldiers). They were Polish patriots fighting against communist and stalinist occupation in Poland. A military resistance group which was very far from being associated with nazis (they hated them same as they hated communists) and since the nazi Germany was defeated by allied forces, they continued their struggle to kick out the communist oppressors from polish lands.
In post WWII era some of them were captured and tortured, they made them confess they were collaborating with nazis. This led to almost 50 years of disinformation. Finally when the Soviet Russia has fallen these brave men and their families were rehabilitated.
So please check your sources carefully before you post something that offends people who fought for independence of their country.
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I'm glad someone pointed that false accusation out, cheers to you.
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Yeah, I just got to post that. It's a shame how easy is to spread false information on the Internet. People read it, make up their minds and keep reposting this pile of lies. I'd like to see OP's reply and see if he changes what he wrote in his post. If doesn't it's pretty simple: we have a straight hard-minded communist right here, proudly wearing his red shirt with hammer and sickle and Lenins/Guevaras face (I can make up things either, it's internet so why not :)
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Yeah right , but as it seems the people who are creating this game are still releated to some messed up shit :
"Secondly, it has become clear that Destructive Creations CEO Jarosław Zieliński is not the only staff member with public connections to the far-right. Gameplay designer Jakub Stychno is a supporter of the fascistic Obóz Narodowo Radykalny, as well as the homophobic, nationalistic Młodzież Wszechpolska. FX artist Marcin Kaźmierczak is also a supporter of Młodzież Wszechpolska, and of several anti-social justice, anti-gay Facebook pages. (Including a right-wing boycott of a Polish boxer who supports gay rights.)" http://fucknovideogames.tumblr.com/
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First, DCs members political views wasn't the topic I was posting about, so you missed my point I belive. Second I couldn't care less about their political associations, let them be and let them make the game. Third and final, it's funny how being a leftist is completely ok and supporting the right wing instantly makes you a nazi, racist etc. These days lot of politics are interested in making up peoples minds to see these sides as "good" and "evil" ones straight forward without trying to actually understand their view and reasoning. I'll leave this topic though because it's not a place for this kind of discussion and I don't wanna get banned.
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While nuance is important, are you suggesting that homophobic, anti-gay, anti-social justice groups and/or groups that espouse hate speech are entirely fine?
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Very far? Oh, sorry, they must have started killing ethnic minorities by accident. And the anti-Semitic, nationalist slogans they espoused were copy of fascist ones by some weird coincidence. Oh, and the truce with Nazis and stopping fighting them 2 years before the war ended was, uh... laziness? Maybe you should read more about them, just not the IPN literature?
Yes, some of them could have been misguided patriots, but legal underground resistance, AK, was disbanded in 1945. What remained were mostly hardline bands that we would have called terrorists today, with no chance of victory, just of dragging the conflict a few more years while robbing defenceless civilians. They are glorified today by right wing politics, all "inconvenient" details be damned, just because they were anti-communist.
My grandpa was anti-communist Pildsudski officer from Lvov who fought for Poland in both world wars, almost ended up in Katyn, then barely survived UPA pogroms - yet he always said he found NSZ and like scum even worse than these genociders. I'd like you say to his face he wasn't a patriot because he "only" fought 10 years then listened to orders and returned to civilian life, I guess he wasn't patriotic enough or something.
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My grandpa was anti-communist Pildsudski officer from Lvov who fought for Poland in both world wars..... I'd like you say to his face he wasn't a patriot because he "only" fought 10 years then listened to orders and returned to civilian life, I guess he wasn't patriotic enough or something"
How old is your grandpa?
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"..they made them confess they were collaborating with nazis."
Do you mean that they forced / coerced them to deliver a false confession? As in - they forced them to say stuff that they never did?
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9/11 would buy ,will give it an 11/11 if they added colors
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it kinda reminds me of Bonestorm from The Simpsons
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If you have no ideas what to make a game about; if you are not good at writing a plot; if you are too shallow to face your personal problems; if you like provoking people; if you like to offend people; if you suck at being a nice and lovable person, you probably will design crap like that.
I accept that people might disagree, but I their is nothing innovative in this game. What games need more is not violence. Nearly every game these days is full of violence. But, paired with other aspects, such as strategy, a great plot or whatever. What I see here is simple celebration of violence. Nothing more, nothing less.
As someone mentioned here before, Spec Ops: The Line was full of violence, but it had a great plot that delivered emotions. Apocalypse now is full of violence, but to show how horrible and dark the human soul is. This here, is simply pathetic trash.
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Forgot to point out 'the nuance' of Spec Ops: The Line in my posts before. Kudos.
It's a very good example of how certain 'nuances' are more than just that. ;)
There's violence as something that's unavoidable, especially if you mean to use it as a form of showing people what war is really about... and then there's violence just for violence's sake.
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