well I agree with main point.
also, probably not so popular thought
some of the toxic/drama inducing ppl are members of 2hu - which you are treating as retreat from all of the bad here
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some of the toxic/drama inducing ppl are members of 2hu - which you are treating as retreat from all of the bad here
I perfectly acknowledge that, I'd have to be a self-obsessed fool if I thought that my own community is 100% perfect and this is the worst.
But this is cross-community thing. Show me similar argument between two members of my group and I can guarantee that at least 1, but probably both will be excluded from it. I don't encourage drama here - I have dedicated staff to solve those issues, and ArchiBoT to enforce rules.
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Probably you are right, but that is the pros of the cross-community. Apparently some people need a vent somewhere, and if they find it here, it can be beneficial for other places (but that's not given), and at the same time it is shitty for place where they release their -input xyz-. Don't get me wrong, as said, I agree with your points and for SG forums more rules would be beneficial. That is not easy, you have staff for issues, but is it so easily scalable? While number of discussions is decreasing month by month, the numbers are vast.
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The site has gotten really big over the years, with a lot of traffic. So I pretty much agree that certain things are getting out of hand and something should be done about it.
After a period of hiccups a while ago, from a technical aspect, site is finally working great and new and useful features are being added constantly. However, it's becoming a bit of a wild west in here, rules enforcing and community moderation could probably improve a bit. Get some quality with that quantity.
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Oh come on, don't remind me, I'd love to act like a fool and play vidya all day long ;_;
Crap, I might be that annoying elder sooner than I thought. GET OFF MY LAWN.
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I'm not getting older. mentally I'm still capped at 5 y/o level ;P
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option to view selected Categories ion discussion instead of either ALL or just one category. This way you would be able to exclude Giveaways/Trains, Puzzles etc, but still have multiple categories. As much as I love that we got categories in SGv2 it's still not perfect. Especially as General and OffTopic just have almost the same topics in them, so if you're intrested in these kinds of topics navigating through them sepoaratelly is bad option.
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ive been wondering why i wasn't that much into the SG experience anymore as i was before.
i guess its pretty much what you said. the quality of alot posts is not acceptable.
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Self-claimed SG sheriffs playing "the good policeman"
So... backseat moderating is okay when you open a thread to "help moderate the forums". ;)
Okay, all jokes aside, there are good points in the thread. One of the reasons I stopped doing real puzzles a long time ago (maybe 2.5 or 3 years ago) was that almost every single one got leaked and no one was banned forever even if they were repeating offenders. That said, other reason was that with site becoming more popular and more people incoming, less people actually wanted to make an effort of solving a puzzle. Or doing anything except for clicking "enter" for the matter.
tldr; I agree users that are proven to break the rules constantly and blatantly and have fun doing it should be permabanned after enough warnings. As it is now, some of them never get a slap, let alone a ban or permaban.
About forum drama, certain "famous" users and others... I don't know. There was drama from day one. Every community has it, online or offline. One mans drama is another's joy, and some user that irritates me is funny to you and vice versa.
There were always, not really "protected users" but those whose words were more likely to be seen as joke instead of provocation... even back in the time of Cult, Jade Falcon, Lokonopa, Lina, and "the first crew". I see that none of them is listed as support/mods nowadays, so many users probably never even heard of them. But my point is mods today are not doing anything but being human. Go to any forums in the world and there'll be a well known user who can get away with a bit of light joking. Also, it's not their job/place to ban people just because they annoy certain other people.
If someone annoys you, just ignore them, blacklist them whatever... No need to start a terror reign just because you feel a certain user overstepped some imaginary rule you think should be in place but it's actually not.
SG was always self-regulated and worked fine... mostly. I see it growing in the same way as steam itself, from a closed-elitist thing to a wide-open place which anyone can use as it wishes, without actually being a core member. Even IGN/Amazon (if they wanted to do so, of course) could use this website to create giveaways for users who can (register and) enter them. People can visit, enter things, decide never to return... it's fine. Yes, it's annoying that I'm adding on steam the same person for 2 years now and sending emails and they play games but refuse to activate their winning from who knows when, but it won't make this place any less good because a small number of casual users are not taking it seriously as the core members. There are people who read buzzfeed or cracked daily, and those who visit once, leave a comment and never return. There are people who post on reddit, get 100 questions and never answer them. There are people who'll post 300 pictures on Imgur, forget they have an account and return only in 2023. That's internet. One of those "evil users who never claimed their gifts" might have died in a terrorist attack in the past year. We can't know.
The very nature of the internet, and any community online, is that we mostly have no idea what happens in the lives of other people.
If they really break the rules, and get a warning and enough short-bans, yes I agree, ban their behind forever and improve the reputation of this place. But I don't think we should have strictly moderated topics, because... that will soon kill all discussion and everyone will be afraid to say anything and then we'll just have giveaways... and giveaways are only 1% of the fun.
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The problem is, as times change the rules don't change to parallel the change in times. What worked for a 30k userbase doesn't work for a 300k userbase.
Completely unrelated, but I remember you making a puzzle for your birthday which involved a helicopter game you made and I got stuck on a picture puzzle after it. I don't know if you'll remember it but I think I've still got the download file for the game on my PC. Those puzzling days were the best.
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I 'member.
I'm also against the chaos. My point is that, while we can remove the confirmed and repeating rule breakers, you can't force people to start or participate in "more interesting" threads. Specially on a website with 300k userbase where 250k are casuals who don't care for the "wishes" of the 50k core members.
Yes, we visit this place daily and want it to flourish but... we need to relax and not be grumpy grandpas.
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I'm not all for exciting topics etc, not everyone has the sane taste. However I'm all for when you made that puzzle, when llama made his giveaways for non-steam things, when there was that community puzzle i can never remember the name of which encouraged clue sharing! Was it RedFrix who made intense labyrinths?
We may have had our issues(i was a lurker back then), but we still had insane amounts more interaction/community. Feels like we lost that and a lot of the members who used to contribute to that.
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I can't find a link now, but I remember back in early 2010s there was a study published about how people can only feel connection with up to 60 other people in online communities. Once the numbers start growing... you start feeling like you're not among friends and acquaintances and are actually in public place. That affects our reasoning and reactions inside the community.
It's also one of the reasons why people behave differently in big cities and small villages (numbers are different but basically works the same). You can't expect people to be familiar and friendly as if there was 5000 of us. There isn't anymore.
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Yes, but it was a specific study based on that, which tried to find a number for online communities.
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I've never heard that before, or thought about it...but now you've said it, it really rings true. I "unfriend" people on Steam with occasional purges, not because they've done anything wrong, but because they never respond to anything or do anything a "friend" would do...and I guess that's why I feel the need to.
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problem is the more shitstorm on forums there is the less people who want to make "more intresting" threads participate in them, less topics like these gets created, less ppl join or see them, more people see just shitposting, less come and so on. People want to participate in silly topics about nothing? Their right, they are not hurting anyone. People want to participate in shitpost-fest? Not their right anymore, as it affects rest of community as well. Especially when they take this shitposting out of their troll threads and start it in meaningful ones, taught already that SG is godd place for shitposting.
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People want to participate in shitpost-fest? Not their right anymore,
Well, I remember you, me and some other "nice members" starting and enjoying a "what is love" comment train back in our days. Not saying it was smart, but it was fun. Kids nowadays have different views of fun we old guys don't understand.
I'm still trying to figure out how are Archi, you and the others going to force/stimulate people to start posting more constructively, whatever that meant. This is not my first rodeo, and I've seen those measures being applied to many online communities - none as big as this one I admit - and every time, once you remove "shitposters" you end up with bunch of members too nice (and scared for their reputation) to post anything at all.
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If someone annoys you, just ignore them, blacklist them whatever... No need to start a terror reign just because you feel a certain user overstepped some imaginary rule you think should be in place but it's actually not.
Nobody annoys me at this point, I'm too old and too experienced from my ASF userbase to get involved into a drama, but when all I see in SG discussions is threads by certain invidual getting flamed in them for creating shitposts, this is not a drama you're looking for, this is a direct sign that something is not working properly when majority of community disagrees with it. I do not talk about any specific user here, I do not talk about people I consider toxic myself, I call about general phenomenon that is a fact, not my personal opinion. If I raised my personal opinion, I'd suggest a dictatorship similar to the one I'm following in my group, that works wonders - people are not acting like children in kindergarten but solving their conflicts in normal way. But once again, this thread is not about my personal opinion.
One of those "evil users who never claimed their gifts" might have died in a terrorist attack in the past year. We can't know.
They definitely died with their PC being on, showing as online on SG 24/7 for entire week when they're supposed to redeem gift, sure thing. And their status on Steam switching from offline to online is ASF idling games.
In general I see your post as "it's shit, but you can ignore it". Of course I can, this is what I've been doing for last 2 years, and if it was only my problem I wouldn't create a thread about it, nobody should care that much about my own personal opinion. But when I hear the same arguments, the same points, repeated over and over again by hundreds of people that are also participating in this site and feeling the same as me, this is a sign that something does not work properly here, and if it does not work properly, either we can attempt to fix it, or rewrite from scratch. Why I should build utopia on a swamp, if I can build utopia in heaven? Problem is, by doing the second I'll make things worse for SG, as users will follow me instead of accepting the crap that is going on here. I don't want that, if I wanted, I'd do that 2 years ago instead of creating my own private giveaway group. Let's fix what is broken, not reinvent the wheel from scratch only because it has a small issue.
16:35 - Anonymous: People will listen to you, I'm glad you spoke up and that thread will show the kind of support you have and can/will get.
16:35 - Anonymous: I wish more people had your balls and morals.If there is no issue, why people are telling me such things, I just wrote a thread, anybody could do that. You can check out replies in this thread, I'm not alone - there is a problem that should be corrected, even if you can claim it doesn't affect you because you're free to ignore it.
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I hear you, and I agree with the "remove the rule breakers who are ruining the community" part, but by creating the community that only uses SG for giveaways and actually functions outside of it, you've already solved all the problems listed (for the members of that community): Rule breakers can't get in, people solve their problems as adults, rules are stricter than here and well respected, and if there is a disagreement after all, there are capable mods with rights to react so everything works out fine. If someone else wants in, they can join and enjoy that paradise, right (under certain conditions)?
So... why are you even mentioning creating a completely new website, if that is not your idea? Maybe someone planted it to you, started mentioning more and more often, how you should create a new Rome instead of the swampy one? Maybe you should. I mean, there's a new website of the sort every few months. Golden Giveaways just popped out by Zemun if I'm not mistaken. Nothing wrong in the healthy competition, after all.
I'd suggest using Discourse for community part.
--
OK, your edit and addition confirms what I said before I realized you edited the post. Other users are selling you that... idea. It's okay. Happens to anyone at one point in life. But trust me when I say this, and I'm just saying it for you to think about it, not to sound ominous or whatever... If you think 100-500-1000 people leaving would destroy the place, you're wrong. No matter who they are. You're replaceable, I am, everyone is. New community heroes will rise and step in. New gifters, new gifts, new games, new leechers... In a year or two, no one would remember there was a "split". And when the bills for hosting and everything start incoming, how many of those who are giving you these ideas now will offer to help with paying?
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So... why are you even mentioning creating a completely new website, if that is not your idea?
You got it right - I mention it because certain people mentioned it multiple times. Because those are people I care about, and I'm skilled enough to do that, I mention it as a possibility, although as majority of people do know here, I'd rather fix what is broken than rewrite everything my way. It's not a "competition", I'd not create site that competes with SG, I don't target SG userbase, SG amount of giveaways or SG userbase, I'd create it for those several people that are mentioning it, and it'd probably raise itself dramatically, same like I created ASF only for myself and several friends, and now it has over 210k of Steam accounts. That's also why I don't want to do that, because it'd do more harm than good to SG community that I want to fix in the first place. You can see what ASF did to Idle Master.
And there is no need to mention SG clones, I already know at least 5, nothing comes even close to what I'd do if I truly wanted.
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I don't know man, that sounds good. I have no idea what you could do if you truly wanted, but sounds like it would be wonderful. Now I want you to do it too, if nothing else, to see what might be with enough fresh ideas.
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I agree with a lot of your points
Some nuances:
That said, other reason was that with site becoming more popular and more people incoming, less people actually wanted to make an effort of solving a puzzle. Or doing anything except for clicking "enter" for the matter.
Before there was ITH, people were making puzzles. Then ITH was created, and then suddenly there were more puzzles based around it. I recall seeing a thread that complained that puzzles were declining in quality and that ITH wasn't really a puzzle, more like a quiz, and it was pushing real puzzle makers away. Now we have Jigidi and a lot of people making puzzles based on that.
I think the really involved puzzles are not less frequent as they were in the beginning, but it just seems that they're getting more rare due to other less involved puzzles in the forums
I see that none of them is listed as support/mods nowadays
Lina is still listed as supermod, hasn't been online in 9 months
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I came here a while after you stopped creating puzzles, I initially tried them out but in the end I stopped.
Since the jigsaw site came out I taught it just wasn't worth the effort. I remember one of the last puzzles had NIER Automata inside, 3 puzzles each could take between 40 mins and 1 hour. Nearly 3 hours to solve it is just too much, especially if you think that more than 50 person finished that puzzle it becames a 2% chance of winning.
If I work for 3 hours I can buy the game myself and I have at least 100% chances of owning it. Puzzles became someway either "elitist" or really easy with 1 question just to be sure you're not a bot.
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you see - jigidi is just mindless jigsaw, no point in solving it if you don't enjoy it and just for GA. Same goes with puzzles. Some of my old puzzles took much longer than these 3 hours to solve. People have been spending days at them and in the end only a handful successfully solved them. And you know what? They were fine with it. Because solving an actual puzzle was fun for them. They felt like detectives, they felt smart, they liked that I pushed their brain activity to highest gears. Heck - even when I told what game I am giving away I had some solvers who already had the game and were still solving just for the sake of solving. So it was always like that - if your main reason for solving a puzzle, any puzzle, be it real puzzle, ITH quiz, jigidi jigsaw - is only to get GA it's not worth it, you could spend this time working and buy the game. It's not just now, it's always been the case of doing something fun you enjoy and as a little extra and a little motivation getting a chance to get something nice at the end ;)
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And then someone ruined it with a guide to solving puzzles :P
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we both know that with time puzzles became a circlejerk ;) ppl were no longer hinting anything, because old puzzlers already knew solution, because they were no longer hinting nor explaining "old obvious stuff" newbies had no chance in puzzles and to join puzzle community. Puzzle guide didn't cover a single topic which was not already widely used and known by old solvers, all it did was give same opportunity to newbies as to oldies ;) And encouraged puzzlemakers to make original stuff instead of using the same trich we've seen dozens of times ;p
And ofc real reason - it gave me hundreds of whitelists! Even if I created it before WLs were implemented :D:
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There's an old joke about a sailor being adrift at sea and ending up at a small island where he finds 3 people already stranded. They are sitting around the fire and one says "375" and other two laugh a lot. Other says "What about 64" and the rest of them laugh like crazy. Newcomer is like, "what are you guys doing"? And they say, "we're telling jokes, but we're here for so long we know them all by heart now".
Yes, that was what puzzling became at a point. But in a way it provoked new members to dig, work for it, find older threads, learn from them, make an effort... Later we gave them everything on a platter and more and more of them didn't have the will to even read that one thread (you'll remember me linking it in many of my train-puzzles and people would still complain how it's hard while the answer was written there and topic was linked and you gave me credits for that particular "trick" and so on).
That said, we went so far off topic that if what this thread suggests was to be implemented, we'd have a mod reminding us to stay on topic. I wouldn't like that feeling, and am sure, neither would you.
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depends on what levels of moderation we speak of. We are discussing politely, we followed a chain of thought, I'm not saying we should have moderation that should keep us from offtopic etc, but from being rude, dissrespectful, shitposting, trolling - yes. If we were just trolling each other or even worse other members instead of discussing with each other I'd gladly see moderator stepping in and telling us to stop.
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problem is that while in the past giveaways were just 1% of the fun, meaning forum was let's say 75% (don't forget about chats and groups! ;p) with the increasing amount of spam, trolling and general shitposting it becomes less and less fun. I remember that when I was lying in bad with broken knee I was on SG forums 10-12h per day, nowadays I sometimes have problems with finding a single worthy current topic which is not shitposting or just GA topic. nothing bad with GA topics ofc, what I meant is that there are less wuality discussions nowadays and more spam, so even less people go to forums, measning even less quality content and so on and on...
As for self-moderation part - what Wallister said above. It worked great when we were small community. When we are bigger community not so much. You can grab a group of dozen of friends and go camping in the wild, no rules, no fences, no guardians, no law, everyone does whetever they feel like, and it will probably be fine. Even if someone ghets too drunk and starts acting out you will most likelly handle it and all will be fine and dandy. Now imagine same attitude to 500000 people city and guess how long till it falls apart.
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Archi is a good boy he means good
(Im not one to post seriously so this is merely a bump)
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I think some changes in those regards would be nice. Besides a few cases which has caused a forum-wide shitstorm (by either the fault of the OP, or by the forum goers themselves), the discussions CAN be a bit of a wild west of sorts. I'll grab my six shooter.
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Agreed on almost everything, except when someone puts a user on their BL I think it's perfectly ok for them to tell that person why.
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it is not, it counts as calling out, even if they ask you:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/iPQXZ/touhou-giveaways-recruitment-closed-10-slots-results/search?page=4#aif9eZS
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Not a new development. This happened already a year or two ago and the site is still working and growing. If you want discussions, you have to go somewhere else. Normaly the structure of the forum isnt the best to start a discussion. Tried it several times, but most of the time ppl go and spam Off Topic shit or post one short sentence, even if you asked three different questions. Its just bla bla and often without arguments. I still love phpbb2-Forums. By the way: Look how many posts are made in the last hour and if you can, check how much letters where used. I believe that most of the posts are less than 300 letters and thats what i declare as spam only.
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I haven't been here long enough for my opinion to be of great importance or insight, but I've definitely seen some of the things the OP mentioned. The attention-seeking spam and shit-posting in particular stand out. I've not seen much of the leeching and general winning/re-gifting/not redeeming wankery, but I suspect that's because I'm still relatively new.
Anyway, it's far from all bad... The likes of this thread (and the responses it has garnered) would give me hope that if the powers that be act positively, and make the necessary changes, there are enough good people still here to make a difference. Just give them the tools to do it!
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I'm just here to give away games (and maybe win a few as well). I can do that whether the site is properly moderated or not.
Having said that...there is no question that the Discussion section is pretty bad at the moment. It might be nice to have some actual moderation.
Look at Steamtrades, though. I don't think cg necessarily wants to enforce any strict boundaries, he seems to be okay with users basically self-policing.
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Totally agree with you. Everyday when I open the forums most of the new threads lack any real content, any real meaning. I find myself only browsing to the Bundle Master Thread because I am not even looking for any meaningful or interesting threads simly because they all (well, nearly) vanished. Discussion consists of sh*tposters and trolls 99% of the time so it has become nearly pointless of visiting them anymore.
Considering the absurd amount of exploiting the site by users of a certain nationality, yeah, I totally feel you. I would say that at least 70% of all users on my blacklist are from that country. It's a real PITA.
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Witches are the real problem on SG. They use black magic to sow dissent and unrest amongst the community and their familiars steal CV and add games to the bundle list in the dead of night. The mods could sort everything out in no time if they were given a ducking stool to use.
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And double ban people for sarcasm. Stop protecting them and really mod them properly if the alternative is that SG will turn into a scam site and somebody will have to start a breakaway site. Build a wall round them and make them pay for it themselves. Make Steam Gifts great again!
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i just want a new site, sgtoolsbot.com, so everyone can go there to leech and leave me alone here with support <3
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You know what is the problem with sarcasm, especially online? Without actual intonation of your voice, your mimic, your body language it may be hard to see whether you are sarcastic or not. Especially for non-native speakers, especially especially for people not only not native but with only basic english skills. You may think your comment is clearly sarcastic, I may see it's clearly sarcastic, but someone else may not. As long as we're sarcastic about harmless stuff it's all fine, at most we'll have few laughs from person who didn't get it. but if we are sarcastic about serious matter someone taking us seriously is a problem. Example. What if we sarcastically talk about how regifting is ok and some newbie with poor english skills see it, understands it's ok and gets suspended because of us?
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You make fair points, things I've said before have led to confusion or upset. Basic common sense and people being able to discuss issues in a reasonable fashion should mitigate the worst of the problems. It isn't something that should be a significantly worse issue than poor English, typos or other common sources of internet confusion. But at the end of the day if it leads to problems you have to be prepared to accept blame and take the consequences on the chin before you ever post any bullshit.
But I'm pretty sure the potential for confusion isn't what OP was unhappy about.
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OK, so how you call someone who constantly bitching about leechers, greed, low morals, but still owning vanilla going to win full pack and just idle it for cards?
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it starts with S but i can't say it here because i don't want more bans =3
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Yes! Thank you!
Even though I'm not very vocal or know member, but I used to spend a lot of time on the forum reading it, now I'm spending more time searching for what to read. So here, kind sir, you have my raised hand. And I would gladly raise both and surrender to your dictatorship.
On a more constructive note - it doesn't have to be another giveaway site, just another forum for this one. If you want chaos, freedom of speech and a smarty pants with a ribbon - you can roam the regular discussions all you want. If you want to have a constructive dialogue, interesting topics and adult behavior - welcome to the deep web. It's not an ideal solution, but a more realistic one.
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....and a damned good idea, at least as a stop gap or toe in the water tester.
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Ah what does he know...tell him to get a haircut, he's making the place look scruffy.
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Yes stop that! Yesterday she attacked me with a club and broke my finger...THIS MUST STOP!
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Heh, "anonymous calling out"? xD Did she even do anything bannable? o.O
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Yeah, leaving her name in there while removing all others is some rather blatant petty personal shit.
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Just the type of stuff this forum has devolved into?
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AnonymousTouhouMember1
don't worry, i can narrow that user to less than 5 names. 😘
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I'm sorry, it was not my intention to point finger at anyone, like stated below.
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That was not my intention but oversight, I fixed that by now, but it's too late already.
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it's ok!
when i got suspended 6 days in january (while the other two trolls got 4 and 2 days each), it was because support was overprotecting me!
muwwins! pwease don't read the forums, they are bad for your health ;_;
stay away 6 very nice and pleasant days ^^
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You know support loves you since you got the higher number... so envious!
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maybe, just maybe it was a case of straw that broke the camel's back? they forgave you once, twice, you continued to misbehave so they had enough of it? But no, much rather it was a case of bad support especially punishing you 3 times as much for nothing!
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wow i didn't know i was support's favorite! let me set up a bot to autocomment and manage giveaways (and also leak a few) and a referral system so i can monetize my giveaways and see what happens. <3
suddenly i don't look like support's favorite, right?
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never said you were favoritue. but from my persp[ective for all the harassment you did to certain someone even after cg stated something is ok you continued, you should be put away for that alone. That being saind imma not support, thus cannot argue one way nor the other whether someone is protected or not. And I did not, but you being you completely ignored the fact I did not, because then you couldn't post your usual troll rant.
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lol, seems you are another brainwashed user on sg by the same 3-4 victimized users that started harassing and stalking me for weeks in giveaways and comments till i decided to post this thread (yes, that one with 700+ replies and those people inside insulting me and my friends).
but it's ok, carry on and keep them as a shining example of what's good and constructive on sg, i can cosplay as a troll or evil witch.
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you should really took your head out of your **** every now and then. Or just show the things you're posting to some unbiased neutral person and ask them if they are fine and dandy or actually full of passive-aggressiveness, trolling and all kind of shit. and argument of "they were mean to meee, it's fine for me to being mean to them" is on the level of kindergarden. I bashed Johnny on the head with a wooden brick, but it's ok, because he stole a toy car from me first.
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funny, i don't see you scolding your friends (you know, the anti-muslim racist and the one insulting and harassing me for weeks), just me.
again, pretty selective lecturing.
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I barely follow forums nowadays (and you put a small brick to it as well, along many others), I did not notice any of my "friends" to show anti-muslim racism, but hey you prolly know better, I surely did, just decided to ignore this. joke aside, if there's really such a person provide me some link - be it via steam or some comment in old GA or anything - I seriously do not wish to be accomodated with any freaking racist, bigots etc, as I proved multiple times in this community political topics. But again - for you probbaly it won't matter - who cares I showed over and over again my views, you made an argument why would you drop it, so can continue calling me friend of anti-muslims or even facists or reptilians.
another thing - you keep avoiding main issue I point, and keep doing it the same way. I say "you are doing something wrong" - your responses? "but these people did something wrong too", "but your friends do something wrong too", prolly soon enough gonna be "you do something wrong too" - guess what, nothong of that relates or changes the fact thar YOU.ARE.DOING.SOMETHING.WRONG.
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Can we also include some complaints about steamtrades? :B It's a scammer heaven there.
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You know, I've never even taken a look, but with all these glowing recommendations I am seeing on this thread alone....I think I might have to take a look.
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My participation in these discussion threads have dropped dramatically because I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall sometimes. I have voiced similar frustrations over the years but not all in one post. I doubt that there will be any resolutions as a result from this one but thanks for giving it a shot.
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I find more the "us and them" mentality to be the problem with the core community. The underlying politics on this site is akin to toddlers fighting over a toy. Funny that a giveaway sites primary focus isn't gifting.
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Steamgifts has turned into Facebook.
That's the problem IMHO.
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I just went and found the password for my Facebook in order to compare and check that theory. Apparently my mom has been scammed for 14 TF2 keys and a CS:GO knife and my cousin has posted that she has been blacklisted for no reason. Spooky.
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I was comparing them not just in terms of content (gaming site, eh?), but also in terms of "hey who's friends with who", "did you hear this juicy bit this week?", "do you hate this person?" Just nonsense and politics and flaky crap I see on Facebook - which is why I tend to avoid Facebook (and 75% of the posts here).
The shit's hilarious. Fortunately, I love a good joke.
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Truthfully, mine has been quite since the Brexit bullshit a while back. I did just take a look and apparently a local farm is going to have its cows on Countryfile, the local U11 rugby team has won a game, my friend thinks her horse is a 'little shit' for some reason and my cousin Megan is still reposting every cocktail recipe she sees. I got none of that right now.
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For me 80-90% of my facebook is user posts from a retro-blog's group and geek stuff, I've started unsubscribing people who posted stupid stuff :D
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Well, I do like a good joke, so I keep going back (occasionally). Plus ... Trump memes. They just get better and better.
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I lold a bit :D: Also relating to my sarcasm comment to you - here's example of good sarcasm ;) even if someone would not get it it would not be harmful ;)
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Only someone who isn't aware at all of the backstage and how much work is being done can actually think this low of the support team.
Rules are fine, maybe if someone thinks they aren't, it's maybe they whom should change.
I find it sad that users comment on this like they agree with it so much when actually they fit on some of the reasons.
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Steamgifts changed, and not for the better.
I agree. Mainly the community, but personally because I believe most people thinks it's SG that should change because of them and not the other way around.
No one is entitled to anything.
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i dont think that archi or someone else here thinks low of the support team, i think this thread is supossed to wake up the communtiy and try to change something. also i think that u guys are maybe a bit over worked, that u need to reinforce ur team. because it doesnt matter if the rules are fine or not when u dont have enough man to enforce the rules.
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You said some correct things.
However, I didn't say it was archi who thought low of us. If you read every commentary there are inputs that are really straight forward about how such bad work we do.
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We have 5 support members in the group now, I know quite well that it's not your fault, and I pointed it out several times. I'd be glad if more people understood that it's cg who should act here, and not you.
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Then what, according to users, should cg do?
Regarding size, isn't exactly easy to pick random users and give them support power. There is also some guidance, explanation and guidance required to which can be tiresome and demands time which cg might not have.
Some users here seem to think that this is cg's and support team's job
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Bear, I know you got far more official now with that support tag but you could read OP and suggestions I listed. NOWHERE I pointed out that size of support is at problem, or support members not doing their job properly. Either you didn't read at all, or you didn't understand anything and you state your opinion based on the same old incorrect support arguments that I'm hearing here since last 4 years.
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That's completely irrelevant to what I'm saying.
NOWHERE I pointed out that size of support is a problem or support members not doing their job properly.
Yes, you did, on your own OP, and it is.
By quoting what you think it's wrong with SG, you're implying it's not being handled correctly. And I'm saying it is, just not at everyone's pace.
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By quoting what you think it's wrong with SG, you're implying it's not being handled correctly. And I'm saying it is, just not at everyone's pace.
Evaluate comments in this thread, and explain to me again how everything is alright if people are directly telling you that it's not. If you live in support Wonderland and for you everything is alright, then that's great, you're entitled to your opinion, same as I am, but fact is what majority of people think about, and majority of people sadly think same as me, which is not good - I'd be rather happy if I was the only one not satisfied with SG state, then I'd know it's not an issue for anybody else and I don't need to make a thread about it.
Quality of SG discussions is bad, that's a fact, and we should work on improving it rather than saying everything is fine because there are no reroll tickets.
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I'm not saying everything is alright. I'm saying everything is not as bad as people quote.
Quality of SG discussions is bad, that's a fact, and we should work on improving it rather than saying everything is fine
That is true, however, once again, it is not true what people quote to be "unsupervised". Spam-posters are being warned, threads are being closed and users at forums, if needed, are being suspended. We can't just reach everywhere, every time
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I didn't say it's "unsupervised", I said it's not supervised enough. And that doesn't come from lack of members in the staff, but from vague rules, ignoring lots of things, making dramas arise instead of closing threads, and suspending only severe cases when people jump straight to insults, racism, discrimination and bullying. In short, staff acts either when it's already too late and there is 500 comments drama filled with insults and shit, or doesn't act at all because apparently nobody cared enough to read the damn thread in the first place. Or we'll see action with one year delay, when everybody already forgot about entire drama and SG discussions quality dropping.
a member of an online message board or electronic mailing list with privileges and responsibilities to approve or reject messages and uphold the terms of service.Not "a person suspending people for inappropriate behaviour". I want to see comments being marked as "deleted by moderator due to breaching terms of service", and then ToS clearly stating that any form of racism, discrimination, bullying, insults, and likewise, is not allowed. Then I'll be happy, probably same like 90% of other people sharing my point of view. I want to see low-level quality threads being closed due to blatant trolling attempt, not being left for other people to state that the thread is blatant shitposting.
Until then, moderation that is happening with 2 years delay in user report is not going to help. Even moderation that happens within 5 seconds since post happening is not going to help either, without staff moderating threads, not suspending people. And that requires cg action.
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fact is what majority of people think about, and majority of people sadly think same as me
Nah, man, that's majority surrounding you, the real majority of sg users doesn't care for forums and discussions and community at all. It's all relative.
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Well, judging from this thread this is majority participating here so far, and since my suggestion is based on improving community, so exactly that participating in discussions part, I do see it as majority, or at least as people that are interested in changes happening. It's not for me, not for my group or artificial friends - it's for everybody posting here agreeing with one or more points that I pointed out.
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Okay man. I'm not against you (don't even know you) - if you read carefully I agreed about many points in my other posts incl. permabanning repeating offenders - just saying you're looking at this (stricter forums moderation) from a vary narrow perspective. Let's face it, people in your group are not a faithful representation of this community, nor are people posting here.
But being blind is a choice here, so do whatever you like. I learned to take people who blindly raise the hand with me with a grain of salt back when I was in the first grade.
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If this were true, then maybe it should be a full time career move.....
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great, you made Archi make a rant thread
we are at the Point of No Return now
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This is not just my observation, the discussions right now is a total public swamp with no rules, no moderation, crapload of shitposts and no constructive discussion whatsoever.
I could simply hide in my SG utopia aka elitist circle-jerk private giveaway group of people that are fed up like me, like I'm doing since last 2 years, but maybe before starting a war and wasting a lot of time on doing something stupid, we can fix what is broken, enforce no freaking double-standards and actually give support power to ban people, because apparently some people didn't learn shit after their 3rd suspension. Maybe if people would be afraid of crossing the line between jumping on insults, shitposts, constantly breaking the rules and not being afraid of anything, something would improve and I wouldn't feel disgusted every day I'm opening discussions, to find out about some interesting thread to look into.
Can we do something before it's too late and members that are actually building this community move elsewhere because it became a total pile of trash? I'm not in the mood of coding another giveaway site for me and ~100 more people who have enough of that, but I'm pretty sure that if I did, together with SG profile sync and people starting at their SG levels, quickly I'd divide the community into two, and this is not my intention.
I expect either several people raising hand (including silently agreeing with me, without wanting to disclose that), or a total drama thread that will quickly change into blacklists, insults and people saying how everything is okay when I'm more likely to create public L0 giveaway given to a bot capable of writing automated thanks rather than to "community" we have right now.
If you need blacklist button you can find it in my profile. I'm simply calling cg to mind before it's too late. I don't ask for dramatic changes - a few rule changes, and telling your newly-recruited support to start enforcing them - before it's too late.
JerkArchi out. Have a giveaway that perfectly relates to my opinion. And if you agree with me, it's a good moment to walk into the light and together show cg that something has to be done here.
Edit:
Because people are claiming that this thread is not constructive enough, I've included extra suggestions:
Issue permanent suspension on every member with unactivated wins, until he activated all of his missing wins in one way or another. Give him access to his keys list, and giveaway he won, so he can comment only there. This should exclude games that are no longer available in the store. Alternatively, just disable making him join any giveaways until he activated all of his wins. SGTools is already capable of checking that, SG can check too.
If given SG user is constantly being found in giveaways he's not eligible for, he's a candidate for perma suspension as well. First incident - short 1 day suspension, then 2 weeks, then perma. User should ensure that he's joining a giveaway that he's eligible for - if he gets link to invite-only giveaway that doesn't come from giveaway creator, he should automatically assume it's leaked link. Not hard to check, should be evaluated by support during reroll request based on giveaway origin and available methods - if the same guy is being reported for the 4th time by 4 different people, likely it's not a coincidence or circle-jerk of people setting traps for him.
In terms of bots, a simple "I'm not a robot" captcha appearing after each 100P being spent when trying to join a giveaway would solve the issue entirely. Limit could be adapted as-needed, 100P is good starting point, but it might be too intense, so we could bump it to 200 or 300. No captcha required for anything else, only for joining too many giveaways.
In terms of discussions - give moderators power to not only close the thread, but also remove posts. If some thread is not going the right way, close it, if people are starting drama, suspend them for a day or two so they can rethink what they're doing, and remove their posts. Repeated offenders will receive longer vacations.
Implementing those 4 things - severe suspensions, anti-leakers, anti-bots and moderation of discussions would heavily help with nearly everything I listed, as automatically we'd also solve majority of calling out problems.
It also wasn't my intention to make a thread that looks like an attack, it's probably just my way of putting up words connected together with inner sadness how things are getting down as the time goes. After all I want to point out problems and suggest how we can deal with them, to improve SG community, not make it worse.
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