Bejeweled 3... cough cough... must really like that game, huh?
Comment has been collapsed.
Remember that guy that wasn't able to contact because he demanded to receive his gift via e-mail?
i actually feel sorry for him, He must be a very sad person
Comment has been collapsed.
*claps*
I mostly agree, yet I am not so sure about the "force sync" part, since that would mean we can't join games that are given away during a free weekend of said game. Sure, it would prevent people from entering games they already own but it syncs automatically after 7 days or something. It could be helpful and prevent a people winning the same game twice but on the other hand it can also be a pain in the ass - at least in my opinion.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think that this would make any difference to how it works now. I once created a giveaway for Chivalry during its free weekend and most people couldn't join. So I had to delete the giveaway and set the duration to a week for the new one.
Paying attetntion to what is currently free and what's not is pretty simple. It should prevent users that join a group and don't sync after they get kicked for any reason. To prevent people from entering an activated game after winning it et cetera.
I think it would offer more pros than cons, although I can understand the point you are making.
Comment has been collapsed.
now i understand where the hate comes from....you mentioned it once in the chat and now its all clear....well now system is flawless but the force synoc is totally necessary
Comment has been collapsed.
I rant so much I can't even remember when I mentioned it in your presence, but yeah, I think this and a lot of other things sum that up.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm in 100% agreement with what you've laid out here for us. Preach it!
Comment has been collapsed.
Ha, that gif made me laugh! The way I imagined it it should be very simple since the way it would be implemented uses similar coding the site uses now. As soon as I actually download Gimp or get Photoshop again I will try to visualize it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Stop suspending people that have obvious bad intentions joining this website!
I kinda agree what you said regarding that. But I have no problems nor I see why 'Those people don't comment on giveaways, they don't join discussions on the forum.' has to do with anything about that.
Someone admits to regifting, not activating games, feeling that nothing that he has done is wrong? Ignorance is no excuse!
Can't agree with you there, with each case it's sentence. Someone can do that out of pure ignorance, and even by reading FAQ not understanding the rules, while someone else can do the same completely aware that it is wrong. We should have the 3 strike punishment, being suspended by the same thing 3 times (maybe in a short term of time), might lead to suspension. But like i said, to every case it's sentence.
Force sync, guys. FORCE SYNC!
Please don't, mainly because of the reasons stated by 'Elunes'. We can do it perfectly manually.
Comment has been collapsed.
Steam uses their own time zone, Pacific Time (currently PDT, UTC-7), and IIRC, they always start things at noon.
Local things like coupons and market suspension on items is tied to user time zone though.
Comment has been collapsed.
1) This was an example on how those people behave on this website. If you would commit something illegal you wouldn't run around bragging about, would you?
2) I am talking about extreme cases here, but if my suggestions would be implemented they couldn't argue that they did not understand the rules. I often had proof about people admitting to their wrong doings. Screenshots from comments and chats. Yet it was no reason to ban them.
3) See my answer to her above.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you would commit something illegal you wouldn't run around bragging about, would you?
Quite the contrary, it is one of the most common things to brag about. On the internet and in real life. Next to imaginary sexual conquests, of course. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know, I guess the not commenting part was about people not intrested in the community at all, they are just "farming" the giveaways.
Personally I was recently suspended for calling out for a shy 2 days, and I missed the forums more than the giveaways :D
Comment has been collapsed.
That's the point. I think I've contacted support numerous times to check if someone already got suspended for regifting or not activating and I always heard that they already had their suspensions and "I am good to go". Not a great feeling to gift someone that has broken the rules already.
Comment has been collapsed.
Mark users that have been suspended once
That's a reasonable idea, I'm picturing it in my head like the VAC ban mark on Steam profiles. Maybe it could go even further and display the profile name in green letters or w/e. At least that would make any blacklisting endeavors much easier.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it would also prevent people from breaking the rules since they wouldn't get away with it so easily.
Comment has been collapsed.
Fot this one I'm against. People not only get suspended for serious reasons like regifting, not activating etc. They also get suspended for stupid reasons or sometimes by mistake. And they would be forever marked for that. I once got suspended by ex-mod for "promoting using proxy to exploit regional promotions" (not to mention that nowadays 90% of ppl talking in Nuuvem thread should get suspended for that) - what was that "promotion"? In thread about UbiShop bug (different bugs for different countries) I wrote: "No need to bother using proxy, I tried - they are not only checking your IP but also billing address associated with PayPal and you get nothing if these don't match". So I was basically anty-promoting using proxy. But according to this mod mere mention of proxy means that if someone who didn't know about it will know now because of me, so just mentioning it as not working is still a promoting it. Months later I went into another argument with him on forums, brought it back and finaly he admitted he was wrong then - just "didn't bother with my explaining back then, as I was a new user" (-.-), but back to topic - in such a case I'd be marked for life same as any other regifter. Due to no-calling-out rule it couldn't mark exactly what I was suspended for. And same would apply to tens if not hundred other users who got suspended by mistake (for example not activating a game that they did acticvate, but that shows by different name in library) or for silly mistakes.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm also not very comfortable with the idea of marking suspensions on profiles, but maybe a good compromise would be that when creating a report or reroll request for non activation, if the user has already been suspended for this reason, it would show for which games
Comment has been collapsed.
and this I believe is a valid idea :> No pointless witchhunts searching for all users marked by "Suspension seal of approval" yet valid solution to multi-reports for the same thing :)
The only problem I see not is that as only mods can view user reports atm a lot of ppl use Support tickets instead of User reports for these, so atm it wouldn't work (Ticket is not associated with certain user, so no way to check his suspension history). A solution would be to give All support members access to User Report category, so then people would start submitting their reports there.
Comment has been collapsed.
Zelg, I can always count on you for some critique. :P
As I said I wrote these suggestions a while back and meant to work on the details. Some people already pointed out that not every broken rule is worth it and this is something I haven't thought about yet and which I completely agree with, but I still think that certain things should result in a public mark. Regifting and not activating are actions that involve games bought by a user. Just to make that clear. Someone spent real money on it. Yes, probably most users are buying bundles multiple times a week, they don't care for a key that got lost that they didn't want in the first place, but I think that this is a serious offense not only against the user that paid for it but for the community itself. Some people here spend a lot of money on giveaways and those guys only get away with a "Oh, you! Now go into your room, but you can come back in a week and get more!".
These rules are the pillars of this websites premise. Breaking those should be marked not only to make supports life easier but to create a "safer enviroment" for all of us. Going into the extremes here again, but certain illegal activites require the criminal to tell everyone he comitted them. I don't know why this website should be so inviting, friendly and forgiving for people that don't give a shit about the community and its rules.
Comment has been collapsed.
Always my plesure to get into constructive argument instead of mindless flamewar :D:
BAck to topic - the thing is that regifting / not activation / multiple wins - all these things are already pretty visible for anyone who knows what to look for ;) Or how to use SG Tools :> Also public marking stands contrary to SG own rules about no calling out. Also to give a real life example - in modern society if you're caught stealing they will put you into prison, you will serve your time and walk away. We, as a western civilization, already went through things like cutting thief's right arm, or burning a shame mark on their face - and your proposition is basically internet way of doing these things (minus the pain part ;p). The problem I believe is not with lack of public shaming etc, but with severity of punishment and poor enforcement of rules. Punishments for many things on SG are extremely gentle (excluding permabans maximum punishment for one crime is 5 days suspension - which is nothing when you take into an account such a person usually don't use forums anyway and wins once every few months, weeks at max, so in these 5 days wouldn't win anything anyway), and there is a high chance of getting away with them for a long time. Low chance of getting relatively small punishment = not discouraging from doing the crie. Here lies the main problem, not in lack of clear indication of someone got suspended. One form of punishment I'd like to see is what I've had as approved rule in SGv1 - GA will be rerolled if you have non-activated games from SG ever, not only in last month. You can always buy the game yourself if you wan't to be free to go again. If regifting / not-activating would mean that your own wallet gets hit or your future wins may get hit - it is a punishment and it will ensure you won't do it ever again, because it's not profitable. If your only risk is small chance for 5 day suspension - you will keep doing it as long as it remains profitable for you.
As for easing up support on multiple reports for same person - I believe TempeteJoachim's proposition is much better one (if added modifications I mentioned ;p) - it solves the problem without exorting to public shaming.
Oh and one more counterargument against public marking - I believe in second chances. just not the way SG does, but only after culprict repaired their wrongs. Back in my more active days often a non-activator / regifter would ask me how he can get out of my blacklist. How it was one-time error, they didn't know etc. My response always was one - someone bought a game for you believing it was for you only and you cheated them? Then go and buy this game yourself and add it to your library. This way not only you respect original contributor's wishes for game going to his winner, but also as from now people will no longer see it on your profile as a regift / non-activation, you won't be getting into any new blacklists and then you're free from mine as well. 90% ofc refused "well yeah, it's the thing - I want to get out of ppl blacklists, but I wan't it for free to get more free games, it's not like I'm willing to spend any money to repair my wrongs", but there's always this 10% that will go a way to repair their errors. And such a people deserve second chance, while with your solution they'd be kept shamed for life (at least for their SG life ;p).
Comment has been collapsed.
May I say that I am stoked that we agree for once? I completely agree on having more severe punishment for rule breakers. 100%!
Tempetes proposition is a good one, yet I think you could combine it with the arguement you made. People should get the chance to correct their wrongs before being marked. Regifters or non-activators that buy the game to have it in their library shouldn't be marked although it sounds like a fairytale that someone would do that. If they don't they have to deal with the consequences and of course we know how to check for not activated games but we don't check every existing user. Mostly we check users when they win our games or when they make shady comments on the forum that get us suspicious. When I said that "people don't comment on giveaways or don't join the forum" I meant all the people we miss and that can go on with their business not being noticed.
There are cases where I don't believe in second chances but I've been through some shit and I have a lot of extreme opinions on some stuff, but I still think those are reasonable from the experiences I made.
Comment has been collapsed.
Basically I agree with most of your ideas from this topic ;)
I have nothing against tutorial, I just don't believe it will work ;) Same as now we have a warning when user creates first GA, he must click that he understands how gifting works, yet we still get Fake GAs, from ppl who "didn't understand".
I'm also, and has always been, totally for translating FAQ. Even more - I believe we shall have low level support staff - without ability to suspend, delete etc, but a lot of them ust to be able to read tickets in their own languages, answer to them, and eventually make a quick translation and shortened version to send to higher support member, so he could quickly deal with it (this one especially as I was myself asked few times from support staff friends to translate his support answers into polish, as user he was answering to was not able to understand english). Sadly I also know that the idea was already in the works in SGv2 beta and cg decided to drop it so it's unlikely to come back.
I also also agree that severity of punishments on SG should be harsher. Especially should not go just for few days suspensions, as suspension doesn't mean a thing to most of low lvl users. But I do not agree on your solution simply ;) I believe there are more civilized and more reasonable solutions, which I proposed ;p
The only thing I totally don't agree on is Force-Sync. It's 1 week now and it's totally fine. few days do not make a big difference yet will totally suck for all the free weekend things. Now free weekend will prevent some people from entering - but anyone aware of free weekend thing will just scheldue their syncs to mid-week :> Daily syncing will basically block whole community from entering GAs, which is terribad idea ;p
Comment has been collapsed.
There could be an appeal system. Or an expiration date.
I know-- the appeal system could be very labor-intensive, and the expiration date somewhat defeats the purpose, but they are both ways to address suspensions like yours. Just a thought.
Comment has been collapsed.
appeal system is useless until support will be able to respond to tickets inshort time and orderly fashion.
Support won't be able to do so as they already are not. They are all volounteers donating their time for free, there are not enough of them, and you wouldn't need just few more but few times more of them to just deal with everything that needs to be dealt with as of now. And now imagine how many more to also deal with appeals, new responsibilities etc.
Or you'd have to hire a full-time professional support - and where would you get money for them? ;p
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, I basically agree...all the more reason to tighten things up so that they aren't quite as overworked. Or implement new things like having the site auto-detect regifts...which I still think should be possible.
Comment has been collapsed.
will not be possible, not because of SG, but because of Steam API sucking. It very often return false positives, there are tens of games that are never ever returned by it, and many more that only sometimes are not because API had a hiccup while solving a certain request.
Comment has been collapsed.
lmao Why not also tattoo 'SUSPENDED ONCE' on their foreheads. Mods are able to see who got supsended and thats enough imo.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sounds like you are defending yourself here. Are you?
Comment has been collapsed.
Dude what.
Think about real life examples. Someone beeing in jail. He got punished, now after some time he gets released. Why would you mark it forever on him so everyone can see it? He got his punishment and hopefully learned his lesson. If he didn't, the police or whatever got his data that he was in jail once already.
You are just ignorant, what the hell are you even talking.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think he was more referring to one of your recent wins, but didn't want to call out... ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
What are you implying
Edit: Nvm realized what you mean. But it's just that I have marked it as received even tho I didn't have it received yet. Fixed now, internet police can go home again.
Comment has been collapsed.
Certain crimes require you to be marked for life, but read the whole discussion to get the point of it. Some jobs require you to bring in a penal clearance certificate. Thought enough about real life examples, now get back to the topic.
Comment has been collapsed.
Imo this would save some time... but then again, there're tools like the non-activated win checker to spot scumbags... but a mark would take away this extra step. Speaking of the non-activated win checker: I think my blacklist just increased... go figure. facepalm
Comment has been collapsed.
=) good job detective. how about you " Before calling out / report someone, please manually check the results "
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah Downward! Good stuff right here. I think the suspension marking would need to be only for certain things though. Breaking important site rules, primarily. People have gotten suspended all the time for accidentally breaking trivia chat rules and stuff, and having pretty innocuous mistakes go on record like that would be a problem.
But suspensions for obviously intentional or major stuff, I think marking would definitely be a good thing. Like regifting and whatnot.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, that's something which I haven't worked out, but only things like farming CV, regifting and not activating games should be resulting in those.
Breaking B1 chains would also be a serious offense that result in a permaban! B)
Comment has been collapsed.
Wow... the "Do not contact me"-guy seriously changed all his won games to not received out of spite?
I looked him up on my blacklist and support must have changed them back to received but that's really low.
I pretty much agree although I think a tutorial does not suffice. We need a quiz that everybody (even users that have been here for years) have to take before they can continue joining GAs. That way nobody can claim ignorance of the rules which is no excuse anyway.
Edit: Nevermind, I was looking at his given games not received.
Comment has been collapsed.
The games are still not marked as received? I think this supports my rant.
Well, I'm all for "all or nothing" but a quiz like a test for the driving license? I think that CG wants to generate some traffic and a quiz would probably scare off more people than inviting them. Not that I am against keeping this more exclusive so people that don't even take the time to take a test stay away, but I think the most important point is to consider the interests of the site's owners.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yea a short multiple choice questionaire about the most important DOs and DON'Ts of this site.
I've seen chat sites that have a similiar thing and only unlock certain features after you've taken a quiz on online safety.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree with most of it, but if you just put some suspension mark on profile - it'll sure get this person on a hell lot of a blacklists, even if it was for some small mistake. There are a lot of people who don't understand how everything works at first but become a valuable members later, and that mark would be like 'official calling out', opening hostility and blacklistening towards those persons.
But maybe some kind of mark on a "won page" next to GA in question, so it can be seen that this situation is already dealt with and there is no need to spam support with tickets and rerolls. And if there would be rule about three suspension of the same kind means really long ban (I'm not supporter of extreme measures, such as permaban, but a few months would make a person think harder next time), there won't be much need for mark on profile.
And to add to your suggestions - good idea that was brought up on forums many times - pop up window when you creating or winning a first GA with short warning about how it works, link to FAQ and some kind of "I understand that I will provide/activate game" check form.
Comment has been collapsed.
As I mentioned in the original post and some comments, I haven't worked on the details yet. I still think that serious offenses like regifting, farming CV and not activating games should end up in a mark. Haven't seen any valuable member that did something like this, but maybe I haven't looked hard enough.
I still don't get why people are so in favor for rule breakers. Maybe set a duration to the mark then, maybe a year.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree with you on the tutorial, think that is a great idea. The FAQ does not cover a lot and there should be stickied threads imo as well for new users.
A New User Category wouldn't be a bad idea either.
I do not however agree with you on marking people who are suspended. People make mistakes, they learn from them. Not all do, but the good ones do. I think something like a three strike rule should be in place though.
Comment has been collapsed.
The great people on here never broke these rules in the first place. People that make mistakes on here don't care about it.
A guy got caught not activating 3 out of 4 games he won. His response? "Heheheheheheheheheheh xD" That's an actual quote, that's what he said.
Comment has been collapsed.
I suppose that a Tutorial that you have to read through before you register might cut down on Mistakes, but there are people who will still skip right past if they can, and still make mistakes. T.T
As for translations, the need for legit Staff who can do Translations is real, but changing the site to run in those Languages is actually a Major undertaking. It's not like you can just Copy and paste over everything, the code actually has to be rewritten to recognize the new language, Otherwise, it'll just show up as a bunch of blank Spaces or Boxes.
Sorry, without a Massive overhaul, the only way to ensure that your giving your game to some one that's worthy of recieving it, is to look for accounts that have a good Record and add them to your Whitelist.
Nothing else is anywhere near as effective at weeding out the people who Use the site just to make money, or get free games.
Also, even some of the best people on here have made a mistake in the past, and having a Mark against your name that follows you forever is like being a registered Sex offender.
Unless they were suspended for a gross Violation, like entering multiple Accounts, and using them for Regifting, I don't see giving them
"The Mark of Cain" as being in any way fair.
I do agree with Force Sync though. In fact, I feel that when you are either Entered into a GA, or when your Running a GA, that your Profile should be set to Public, and it should make you Sync once a day at minimum.
Sometimes I Force Sync multiple times in a Day. (Example: I win a GA, recieve the game, then Force Sync. Later in the Day, I buy or trade for a Game, and Force Sync. Then a friend gives me a game as a gift, and I Force Sync. etc.)
I've seen people that actually won 2 GA's for the same game, try and regift the extra copy, and get suspended. These were people that did'nt understand the Rules, and thought they were doing the right thing by putting the game back into the system. T.T
In a situation like the one above, you're supposed to contact support, and the creator of whichever GA you won 2nd, and make the situation clear, so that they can reroll the Winner.
I myself often enter Multiple GA's for games I want, and while it has'nt happened yet, I know exactly how to deal with it, because I've read everything I could about the Site Rules.
However, unless you made an exceptionally long Tutorial, it's a small thing that rarely happens, so most people that have just joined might not know how to deal with it.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't want to have a translation for the whole website, because even when they argue to not understand the rules they still know how to enter giveaways, don't they? Of course detecting the language for the tutorial part would be necessary. I thought about the FAQ showing flags to choose from.
I thought of the turorial to be visual, with little info boxes pointing at certain spots explaining very shortly what it's for. Of course people could skip this just like a TOS but I also thought of adding a short disclaimer at the end saying that breaking rules results in possible suspensions/bans in bold red letters. If they still skip this one, well... Deal with the consequences, of which I hope that they will become a bit harder than they are now.
Comment has been collapsed.
Most of what you've suggested sounds pefectly reasonable. Technically, it would'nt be as hard to make sure that the FAQ and Guidelines were all copied into as many available languages as possible.
Posting a Single Document is easier then Making it so the entire site runs in that Language.
So "Tutorials" in each language sound like a good compromise.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, i am new to the site (bout 24hours now). Spent time browsing and surfing, so i decided to read the full FAQ. I guess, i hoped people would read the FAQ as it isn't as long as EULA's from various companies.
Looking around i saw great members and some not so "into reading" xD i don't wanna point and laugh, we forget from time to time. We are humans and essential construct of a community.
Anyhow, i don't have rep in this community yet, but i still offer my services to translate the FAQ into Arabic =)
Comment has been collapsed.
This is how it should be, but unfortunately people don't read the FAQ. It's rather rare. And you seem pretty fluent in english and although people mentioned that the FAQ has been translated once I think that arabic would be missing maybe. That would be great!
Comment has been collapsed.
I believe there was some kind of arabic translation in beta ;) Not sure for language, but it was using these funny arabic letters at least ;p
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, I wonder what happened to all those translations from the Beta.
Comment has been collapsed.
cg said on chat once, as a reply to my question, that he have all beta topics stored, so they are not like "lost forever". The main idea of having multi-language FAQ thou was dropped shortly before the release of v2.
Comment has been collapsed.
The FAQ page is multi-language. It just lacks a lot of languages at the moment ^_^ Guidelines, too. You can switch between languages by clicking the green button in top right corner.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ahahaa, i think that was the Arabic written with Latin Alphabet. I opted out from doing that for KAT, mainly because i couldn't keep up with different accents (which may cause terrible misunderstandings).
If its with Arabic Alphabet & Modern Standard Arabic ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Standard_Arabic ), i'd be more than happy to do so =)
Comment has been collapsed.
Force Sync - wouldn't it slow down site? We all read FAQ (or we all should read it) and we should be responsible for our accounts, also syncing them if needed.
Regifters or other rule braking scum should be permabanned imho :) If not - they should be marked so everybody who don't want to support such behavior could blaclist them :)
Also it would be nice if backlist would work in two dirrections - if i put somebody into my blacklist its because i don't wanna have anything in common with that person, I don't wanna see his/her GA as well.
Comment has been collapsed.
The things we should do. This only works in an utopian fantasy unfortunately.
I agree with the rest. Let the hate flow through you, Jedi! :D
Comment has been collapsed.
Keep frontin' the Empire,
To all you vader haters
out there, we'll blow
your planet up!
Comment has been collapsed.
Bump for this and especially the forced sync. Would like to add another suggestion
people new to the site and having done 1 regift = month suspension [pref 2months] eventhough the tutorial should fix that problem for not understanding the rules.
people done 2 or more perma ban but thats just my opinion :)
Comment has been collapsed.
The only time I've seen a permaban was more of an public example, because the user was well known. I've seen unknown users do the same thing and they only got suspended. They still roam the website.
Comment has been collapsed.
I've seen several permabans, they are rare, but not so rare ;) Heck, 2 weeks ago I got my first regifter permabanned, but it was excessive example and I believe such harsh punishment should be dealt much earlier. Basically he was caught regifting / not activating twice before, after each suspension he just continued doing so. He never commented (4 comments in over 2 years), so was invisible in GAs and forums and noone was checking him because of that. In the end he managed to regift / not activate 17 games, farm a level 5 for almost free and win 61 games before he was permabanned. So like I said before - he was doing it because it was profitable for him. And I bet there are a shitload of others like him as well.
Comment has been collapsed.
I haven't read the details yet, just the titles. Suggestions that spawn on SG usually are garbage - here is an exception.
Translations were made but cg didn't want them in the final version of the site, so I've been said.
Comment has been collapsed.
yes, partially I can understand - having translations caould indicate for some people thatsite support these languages, that they're good to use on forums or in support and would generate some confusion because of that. And there were a lot of translations in beta, that would make it even more confusing.
Still kinda sucks for all the people (me included) who worked quite some time on translating FAQ (the version we were translating was much longer - like 3-5 times longer than current FAQ version) having their work go to waste.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know the feeling, I was one of the translators as well :-P
Solution to the issue regarding unsupported languages : add "please use english as often as possible" as a guideline.
Wait, wasn't it one of the guidelines ?
Comment has been collapsed.
it was, but counterargument is that a lot of ppl don't read whole FAQ, cause it's TL;DR. Same happens a lot with even english versions - all topics/comments "I read FAQ, there was nothing about that" - people will just see there are for example Polish, German, Spanish versions, won't read them at all or will just quickly look through them missing a lot of points, and will still just jump to conclusiont that it's ok to write in these languages.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ist es nicht okay in diesen Sprachen zu schreiben? :P
Comment has been collapsed.
Stop suspending people that have obvious bad intentions joining this website!
Someone admits to regifting, not activating games, feeling that nothing that he has done is wrong? Fucking ban that guy!
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree almost fully. The force sync could be a problem over free weekends but apart from that good suggestions.
I think there also needs to be a code of conduct to be honest. I understand that CG doesn't like to ban people but when people who engage in activities like attempted extortion on other users and/or developers (yeah you know who I am talking about) are not removed from our community it made me question if I even wanted to be part of the community any more.
Comment has been collapsed.
Exactly the same here. I joined for the reason that I received a lot of love from the few Steam friends that I met and thought it's time to give back thinking this website would be packed with people that came here for the same intentions, but nope. Gib monies pls and fuck you for being generous. Gib moar.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree on most of that, I'd also be willing to translate, but calling out suspensions on the profile? Really?
Even users that are a helpful part of the community and most of the time pretty decent people have been suspended. That includes me, I've been suspended twice for calling out (yeah, my early days) and for "begging" - that begging was an obvious joke, the mod acknowledged it was a joke, still suspended me...
What I'm saying if that user/winner X's profile is just displaying that he/she was suspended, worse, if the amounts are displayed, blacklisting from some users will go even further. And I think there's enough users "abusing" (meaning blacklisting somebody for arbitary reasons or whatever) the blacklist already. Displaying that on the profile (better yet, without the reason /discussion being visible) is public shaming in my opinion.
Comment has been collapsed.
FAQ qas already translated to 10+ languages and in general was much longer and detailed in SGv2 beta. But before launch cg decided to drop translation idea and to shorten it, so it's not likely that suddenly he will go back to that idea.
As for joke begging suspension - I fully agree. You may know it was a joke. Mod may know it was a joke. Someone reading your comment may think it's real, feel pity for you, give you free game - and thus even joke begging nets you a profit like real begging. Another reason - newbie reading your begging comment may not get that it's a joke, he will see that no consequences are taken against you even if it's against the rules. He will conclude that it's ok to beg and will start doing so himself.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah I've read that with the FAQ after posting this.
As for my suspension, I didn't rebel against it. I found it a little unjustified, seing what other users do. I get your reasoning and line of thinking though.
Just to further put it into context, It was a thread greeting a new member - usually, users say something along: "Welcome to SG, now go create loads of giveaways to serve the community"
I said: "Welcome to SG Nao gib mani games plox"
Almost no difference in content. But leave that aside, I just used my case as something against putting suspensions on the user's profiles in public, as I believe I'm (and other's who've been suspended, too, like you) at least trying to be a contributing and friendly member of the site lol. I know some people have blacklisted me (for whatever) though.
Edit: as for FAQ-translations, I remember that on beta actually. One could add a disclaimer though saying "even though the site is in english, the FAQ was translated to help you accomodate and fully understand the rules of the site, as these are crucial to SG usage"
Might save some trouble
Comment has been collapsed.
Mentioned above numerous times. The suggestions aren't worked out. Marked profiles should only be the result of serious offenses like regifting, CV farming and/or not activating games. Since I didn't make any of the visualizations I intended this to have info on why the person has been marked. Not like the Steam VAC-Ban.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know if there are any official tutorials, but the FAQ itself is just a little under 15,000 characters long. This is a roughly 2-3 hour job to native language, and usually costs like 12-15 Euros (well, around here at least). So it is quite doable for free/as community service. If people actually volunteer for it.
The whole site…? Well, that is a larger undertaking and not many people who are capable of doing it would do it just outright. These are usually several-week jobs for one person.
Although I generally don't like how people on these forums want to handle these matters, I found myself agreeing with this thread starter post. It's a fair, non-rigid suggestion to lay down some rules on how to follow the rules. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I will repeat myself again, as you clearly didn't read previous coments regarding the matter - it's not the case that noone want's to translate FAQ, it's the case of cg not wanting translated FAQ that would create confusion that these languages are ok to use on SG from now on.
FAQ has been translated fully (in it's even longer version - few times longer than current one) into 10+ languages during SGv2 beta. I was even one of translators. But the idea got dropped before site going live.
So it's not the case of not having people to do it. It's the case of dea already being thought through and decided against.
Comment has been collapsed.
shrugs Then if the site itself doesn't want it, it has to accept the "cannot understand English fully" excuse indefinitely.
Comment has been collapsed.
as a counter - if you go to let's say UK or USA not knowing english is it suddenly ok for you to let's say murder someone? Or steam from them? According to your statement it should be, as you "cannot understand English" thus cannot read the laws. And somehow it's not. Ignorantia legis non excusat. If you're joining English language community it's your job to get the rules, however you wish to do that, maybe use translator, maybe ask friend who understands english to help you, maybe find user from your country and ask him out? And what if we translate FAQ? It won't be translated to every language on the planet - it ewill sudenly be not ok for Poles to break rules, because there is polish FAQ, but it will be ok for Nigerians to regift because there will not be nigerian version?
Don't get me wrong. I personally believe that pros of having multi-language FAQ overweights cons, but in the end of the day it's cg's site and he's the one to decide and I can live with that. BUT argumenting that without translations we should indefinitely accept excuses for rule breaking, because rulebreaker doesn't know english is plain stupid.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think that this is what talgaby meant. Of course whe should expect people to follow and understand the rules no matter what language they speak, but your example with visiting the UK and the USA are things that are basic common sense. This website has its own specific rules that are specific to this website. We can't argue on common sense here, but to get back to my point. I think Talgaby was just being ironic saying that when a translated FAQ was denied then we have to put up with people that play dumb.
Comment has been collapsed.
but laws apply to you even if they're not a common sense ;) For example some countries have very specific / strange road rules. Like you cannot step out if your vehicle breaks down on motorway for example, or you must carry specific items in your car. And you are still obliged to folow even these non-common-sense rules, doesn't matter if you understand the language or not.
Comment has been collapsed.
I just don't get it why we have FAQ and guidelines and whatnot, instead of integrating them into an all-around topic. Sometimes even I have to search for a few minutes to find a written form of some rule to link it (not to mention that suspension ranges are hidden in the roles section :| )
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't mean to be rude but I repeat myself quite often answering all the comments, so I'll keep it short as I discussed it above. I would only want the FAQ to be translated and Tutorial if it would ever be a thing. People apparently know how to enter giveaways, so that's not the problem.
Comment has been collapsed.
Tutorial for new users is good to have thing as long as it's optional. I'm friggin tired of everyone treating me like a moron that can't understand few sentences put together without YT wideo or pictorial only because there are some ppl that cannot.
Translations were done for multiple languages in beta stage, but were dropped. I;ve no idea why as that was good to have for folks having trouble with english
Suspension marking is imo not good idea. Everyone can get carried over in heated discussion and get suspension for inapropriate behaviour, no need to mark them for life. Serious infridgements (double wins, regifts) are visible on the profile (until made right - but than it's no longer a problem, everyone deserves second chance). What is missing is a change in reroll policy - as long as user meets criteria for suspension, reroll should be granted (maybe with 2-4 weeks grace period for making things right) without taking into account if he was suspended for that already.
Comment has been collapsed.
The sad part is about the tutorials that even though you think you don't need it, stupid people will think the same and they'll just ignore it. Just remember how many stupid reviews are existing simply because people didn't bother with the tutorial then started bashing at the game. SG is not a game, here they can do much more trouble than ruining their (or some others' ) game.
Comment has been collapsed.
Skippable / optional tutorial won't salve anything. Everyone will just click skip to save their time (look how many fake GAs we still have, because user "didn't understand how the site works" - even when we have a warning while creating first GA, people just ignore it, skip it and create Fake GA. Same would go with a tutorial.
The problem with tutorials is - if you enforce it, it will anger people because "I'm not an idiot, I get it!!", if you make it optional it will not change much, because most of people will take "Skip" option.
Comment has been collapsed.
One "Skip" or several "Next" won't make a difference either (only will piss off those that actually read what they agree to).
The main question is what is target audience. Standarts can be lowered to the point of most illiterate users or can be kept on higher level while also reaching down with helping hand to let them adjust and advance. And if they don't want to make an effort, well...
Comment has been collapsed.
The tutorial should be a one time thing. I imagined it like a video games turtorial explaining the HUD. Takes 2 minutes and you are good to go. If you skip it, well, let's see how you do with the first boss battle then! Being the ban hammer. B)
As said above only mark people for serious offenses, not inappropriate behaviour etc.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, I have a problem with it, not because it's 2 minutes but a) it's 2 minutes everywhere and b) it tries to teach trivial basic things. It's waste of my time and indirectly calling me an idiot. But how the things are going I'll not be surprised if soon screwdrivers will be sold with DVD tutorial.
Not so long ago one high level user admitted to trading/regifting. He was suspended and then bough that game and activated it. Should he bear black mark on profile? In my book not at all, he was punished and repaired all damage that could be repaired.
Rerolling all winners with 'dirty' profiles is imo best solution. I don't have to eat up not-received, he has motivation to make his mistake right and community self-policing starts to look like it's really working when viewed from non-staff position. Win-win
Comment has been collapsed.
Am I blinf or nobody suggested private message function? Right now if you have any problem, you have to try via comments on GA, by adding someone on steam or sending email. All of this emthods seems like taking longer and more bumpy road. Why just don't add one simple button to send short messages? I think it might save some peoples nerves.
Comment has been collapsed.
PMs were suggested many times in the past and there is always same counterargument why they will never get implemented - exploitation and abuse. Big contributors after they make big GA getting tens if not hundreds of begging PMs. Attempts to scam over SG. Using PMs to bypass rules regarding puzzles, calling out etc. Using them by bots from alt account for mass advertisement, refferals, phishing links.
For not active user they may seem helpful, for big trader or contributor they arre nightmare. At least on steam you must first accept invitation and can ignore them. Here you'd be hit with massive unstoppable wave of spam you cannot protect yourself from.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, it would be easy to fight with.
-
You are begging me? Sorry, go on my blacklist, no more GAs for you, you are also being blocked and can't send more messages to me. Same goes with trades.
-
About puzzles... hmmm, I think creators wouldn't help anyway, and if poeple would still ask for hints in PMs, they would be blocked. And I don't really think that people would share their results because that would mean bigger entries = smaller chances to win. And if someone is helping his freinds he will be doing it anyway. OR creators of puzzels can always make GA at least lvl 1 or higher which will sort out account that never gave anything from themselves.
-
Bots? Report them, and in result block this accounts.
You see after first huge wave of blocked accounts users would finally learn. I know it might sound harsh but I think that there is always a way to figure things out to make them work.
I have to add that after only a week here I already see that community is mostly great, helpfull and really rspectfull to rules so scammers and beggers wouldn't have easy life here.
Comment has been collapsed.
your blacklist is only 1000 users long. And it's barely a solution as it would only work AFTER they spammed you, you'd still get shitload of unnecessary spam from ppl who you didn't blacklist yet. Or when you have no more rom on your BL.
As for puzzles - you "assume" and I "know" that reality is different from what you assume. Because I was doing puzzles myself for a long time and a lot of them and personally dealt with a lot of ppl cheating, leaking and not caring that it lowers their chances. And all my puzzles ever were 30.01$ CV, so even higher than current lvl2 - didn't stop these cheaters, so why would lvl1 stop them?
Bots - Report them, they create new bot and do the same thing again. It's really not so hard to get SG-ready account (especially as you can get hundreds of mutiaccounts for free during good enough free weekend) and just use new account each time you get banned.
After first huge wave of bans situation will calm down? Yeah - same as let's say MMO botting stops and never returns after each huge wave of ban. Or Steam phishing bots stopped after introduction of anti-scam measures.
As for comunity - you only see the best part - you see active users, not scums that do not care about community - as these will usually not go into forums so you won't notice them. You will notice them when for example you make a featured GA and suddenly get 10+ invites from beggars per day. When you make a big trade topic and start receiving hundreds of phishing links. They will not do so in SG, because SG doesn't have PM system now - so instead all of them will do so over Steam, and as of now, as a new user you're not good enough target for them yet, so you don't notice them ;p
Comment has been collapsed.
Agree! Especially on parts about suspension and banning users!
Comment has been collapsed.
I was thinking about my suggestions for a while and actually wanted to create some concept screenshots to visualize my ideas, but since I encounter more and more scum on this website, exploiting the good will of many users I didn't want to wait any longer and use this as some usefull/useless content for a thread that is actually meant to rant a bit. Below you'll find the text I prepared a while ago and wanted to work on a bit more. Unedited.
Maybe I'll add pictures later on or someone helps me out if he/she thinks it's a reasonable idea.
'ello fellow low-lifes!
A lot of threads have been posted lately regarding regifters, support and overall rule breakers in the community.
I have posted a lot of rants in the past as well, but I thought about constructive critique and feasiable solutions for some of those problems, at least they are feasiable in my opinion.
Make a tutorial for new members
The second someone signs in with Steam for the first time a little tutorial should give them a general idea about how the basics work.
Little info boxes pointing out the different aspects of the website, encouraging them to try them out.
I downloaded Gimp to create some pictures to show you what I mean.
[Imgur Gallery]()
The only other time this would occur again would be when creating a giveaway. Explaining people the basics of creating a giveaway.
Pointing out that you can't gift games that are in your library, that fake giveaways are a bad start and can lead to suspension et cetera.
[Imgur Gallery]()
Translate the FAQ and the tutorials
We have a huge variety of users from different countries from all over the world. A lot of reliable users that are registered for so long
that you could trust them with translating a few sentences. No more "I no speaks english".
I bet that there will be users willing to do this, myself included, and translate the FAQ and some sentences for the above mentioned tutorials.
Mark users that have been suspended once
The first two suggestions were about prevention, this one is not only to scare off potential rule breakers but also to reduce support tickets.
I often checked profiles after they have won games and have been told that they already were suspended and that I have to give them the game.
Why not say that in his/her profile? This way people will know that their reputation will suffer from breaking the rules and we don't have to reroll everytime for someone that cannot be rerolled.
I've been told more than once that suspension would be a reliable tool to teach them a lesson, but when noone knows about it in the first place they basically just get away with it and I have seen enough users that just went on with their business after the suspension was over.
[Concept Image]()
Force sync, guys. FORCE SYNC!
Title says it all.
Remind people to activate their games
Idea by Zomby2D
After winning a giveaway a pop-up should remind people to activate their won games and that regifting leads to suspension/ban.
This is so simple. I don't see any reason not to implement this one.
Now to what I think is the most important. Remember this is something I haven't thought of and just comes from the anger I feel right now towards the majority of this community exploiting it. I've been called a hypocrite in a lot of my recent threads where I had some opinions on possible ethics this site should habe or don't have but I don't care as long as I can say what's on my mind right now.
Stop suspending people that have obvious bad intentions joining this website!
I don't care anymore if it's some sort of disciplinary measure that works for 5 year-olds in the hope of teaching them a lesson. Most people here are grown-ups and know what they are doing and they will go on, no matter if they've been supsended or not.
Those people don't comment on giveaways, they don't join discussions on the forum. They know that this is the only thing that can expose their actions and some are stupid enough to do so resulting in the few users that are actually reported.
Once I had a winner that had racist content on his Steam profile saying "N***er" and other stuff. Which is the against the Steam TOS, right? It applies to Steamgifts, right? No reason for a reroll. I chatted with him and with the help of some friends discovered that he farmed CV with fake giveaways. Well, he was suspended once, no reason for a reroll. So I talked to him and wanted him say that he did it. Said "fuck Steamgifts" and even gave me tips on how to farm CV the right way. No fucking reason for a reroll.
And such things occure every day. Users that see their actions as justified, think that we are the stupid ones for giving games to strangers, letting them do whatever they want with what we have spent our money on.
Remember that guy that wasn't able to contact because he demanded to receive his gift via e-mail? Saying on his profile that noone should add him even if he won a giveaway? Cause "he fucking won and it's his game now"? That marked all of his games as not received after he visited the thread depicting him and realizing that everyone hated him? Got fucking suspended. He's still there.
A new user created a giveaway, not knowing how it works? Alright, give him a little suspension. Someone admits to regifting, not activating games, feeling that nothing that he has done is wrong? Fucking ban that guy!
All of the above mentioned suggestions serve the purpose to teach people how this site works thus they can be banned without warning. Ignorance is no excuse! Never was and never will be.
I don't mean to blame the support for anything of it, I feel that it might happen, you guys just do what you have to do.
I am just asking for change! And of course I will hear that this not right, no we can't do this. Okay, fine. I'll stop gifting then. As I said all I care about right now is to get that out of my system.
Update
Following several comments I would like to make a little update. Again these suggestions were written down a while ago and I posted them unedited, my actual plan was to work on them a bit to make a reasonable approach to some of the things that bother me considering the website's interests as well as the community's.
Users shouldn't be marked for referrals or flaming in the forum, if they have been suspended for any of this. Only severe offenses like regifting, not activating games, multiple accounts (which should be an instaban to be honest) and farming CV should result in public marking. Zelghadis disagrees on the suggestion but made a very good point, which I liked to extend a bit for my original suggestion, that people who regifted or didn't activate a game should be able to correct their wrong doing and buy the game in order to safe themselves from a marking.
Also mentioned by a lot of people punishment should be harder for users. That's the whole point I tried to make while introducing prevention methods for some rules that are ignored a lot. This way you could also justify more severe punishment, because we would do a better job in clarifying the website's rules.
Also a quick reminder for everyone who wants a 3-strike rule to be enforced. Remember that we spend money on the games we give. We are suffering from broken rules and not CG. This website is driven by users. CG is giving us the platform.
I don't think someone should be given 2 strikes before being banned permamently. Just think of the money that is lost in the process.
Give them the chance to buy the game they regifted/didn't activate but when they deny this possibility gtfo.
Most users are caught regifting after several games before being suspended once. Why should they go on another regifting streak a second time? And waste the money of our community?
Comment has been collapsed.