Hey, all aboard the ban train. xD They banned me unreasonably too. Problematic site. :/
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Free bans, guys and girls. Everyone come and get their free ban. No reason required. :D
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Are they not being removed from the ban? Like I said, people like you are vigilant over this.
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Looks like out of the 22 people wrongly banned, only a handful have appealed the ban. Perhaps because most people don't even know you can appeal?
What I'm most annoyed about is how many tickets we get about sgtools from people who think we control it...
Edit: I wrongly assumed that all 22 of those people are banned. Quite possibly only a few of them were banned since I don't think Starlynk reported the invalid entries.
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I wonder why SG even permits the use of an external giveaway rule modifier tool like sgtools.
I never had any problems with it, but seeing people wrongly banned is quite annoying.
Not to mention sgtools has control over the entry system for giveaways in SG, which means people who are not directly related to SG staff are gaining power, status or publicity through it.
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It's definitely an unprecedented tool in the 5+ years that sg has existed. I suspect that unless it becomes a gigantic problem, cg will stay quiet about it, though. I mean, it is what many members have been requesting for years, and since it was never implemented on the site (once again, conjecture, but probably because of the mistake-forgiveness aspect of the site administration), knsys took initiative to do it on his own.
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An easy "fix" to eliminate any headaches would be to dump private giveaway option. ;)
I'd be okay with that
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I was okay with the bans before, but now... I'm not so sure. I'm actually afraid I'm going to get caught and I definitely don't do anything wrong. I wouldn't say I'm active enough to be a pillar of the community, but... if perfectly reasonable people start wondering if they're going to get the banhammer, there is a problem.
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you should have never been ok with bans in a 3rd party tool that manages giveaways.
there's absolutely no need to ban people since all it takes to prevent cheaters from winning is a reroll ticket with sgtools proof.
all these invalid entries are worthless numbers that won't ever get a single game in those GAs.
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I'm wondering where all these people were when we were saying all of this a month ago.
Oh yeah, we were busy being called "cheaters" and "rule-breakers" for thinking it was a bad idea, and no one else wanted to get involved.
Man, I hate being right all the time. Every day my t-shirts get a little harder to pull over my head. :)
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Well the justification is that they would still be eligible for future sgtools giveaways, as long as they pass the check. People with the "once a cheater, always a cheater" mentality aren't happy with that.
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That's not quite the sum of it.
Using SGTools involves an agreement to the use of the site, and when someone actively tries to undermine the site's rules, it's understandable they'd get in trouble, same as breaking rules on SG would get you in trouble there.
The ban arguably doesn't extend to SG directly, since individuals could argue the point to each giveaway creator. A more appropriate approach, however, would be to add the option to disable the ban on your giveaways. Then it becomes less of an outside entity enforcing exclusions, and just becomes yet another conduct filter [like exclusion due to VAC ban]..
You can argue about how it's implemented, but arguing about SGTools offering filters rather ignores that that's the entire point- and that SGTools is used so frequently because the demand for such filters is so high.
People arguing against SGTools- frequent personal motivations aside- are not only arguing for the denial of the giveaway creator's right to a more efficient system of filtering than the old manual filter+group invite system, they're ignoring that removing SGTools would lower the amount of private giveaways posted overall.
I for one would stop making them and just stick to easier to manage group giveaways. :X
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People arguing against SGTools- frequent personal motivations aside- are not only arguing for the denial of the giveaway creator's right to a more efficient system of filtering than the old manual filter+group invite system
I can't speak for anyone else, but I was arguing against the first-offense perma-bans, nothing else. Up until then, I fully supported the use of SGTools.
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Yeah, sorry, addressing two different groups in turn up above.
There's still a vocal number who're just opposed to SGTools as a rule; I wasn't trying to make an absolute association between that group and those concerned with the admittedly a bit dubiously implemented ban system.
Glance below for my perspective on bans.
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if perfectly reasonable people start wondering if they're going to get the banhammer,
That's like getting worried that every game you own is going to get revoked like Days of Custody did.
You can't assume a single glitch will become a frequent issue, until it actually does.
Besides, as noted, you can appeal the decision, so at worst you've a couple of days where you need to inform giveaway creators directly that you can't use the SGTools filter they put up.
Of course, the inclusion of the ban system is currently a bit of an odd prospect to begin with, since the giveaway creator has no say in whether they utilize it or not.
I don't see anything wrong with having a filter for people who've utilized leaked giveaways, however.
Keep in mind each of these banned individuals was reported by someone, it's not automated [for the obvious reason that you can personally give direct links still]. So the issue here isn't one "oops, random banning", but of the moderation staff not being aware of the possibility of a glitch.
They now are aware of that possibility.
Nothing has actually changed, and the individuals complaining are primarily the ones who've had issues with SGTools from the start. Don't take the current vibe on the matter to heart.
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The users reporting for giveaways that happened 3 months ago should never have been allowed. Using retroactive rules can always cause problems.
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Using retroactive rules can always cause problems.
Retroactive rules?
You mean the notably delayed rule enforcement? Or the application of the ban system to back a point where it didn't exist?
Well, no, either way, I can't argue that outlook. Is that a basis for why this issue occurred, then?
Regardless, not going to argue that the SGT moderation staff didn't drop the ball on the matter, but that doesn't keep a lot of the responses on the matter from being overly emphatic or needlessly being directed at SG on the whole.
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I meant applying a ban for actions prior to implementing bans. And it wasn't meant as an argument starter, but more of a reasoning of how you get into such messes.
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an argument starter
Well, no, either way, I can't argue that outlook.
Well, no, I just meant that I agreed with you :P
The phrase just refers to a lack of grounds for argument- thus indicating approval of the sentiment you've expressed. It's not meant to indicate potential for argument. :'P
And yeah, as I said, I agree. :)
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I agree. A software update that retroactively changes historical records is generally a bug, not a feature, no matter how well-intentioned it is. It's kind of like the eternal warning in time travel movies: don't mess with history unless you are damn certain you aren't going to screw things up in the present.
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Wait, what? YOU, Shamrock? Banned?
But, you can't be. You're on my whitelist. You don't suck.
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Thank you. ;) They all hate me and they ban me. :'( :P Oh, well, it was a problem with the timezone probably, that recorded my entry before the sgtools check. :P And why would I do that though? Does this even sound normal?
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I got banned from SGTools too, and, seriously, I don't know why :/
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i also was banned without any aware wrong behaviour, I posted on the tool thread and its admin said he even double checked my case keeping my ban.
something i can definitely survive, even if it's annoying since most ga i enter are forum ones and sgtool is everyday more fashionable...
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Just wanted to ask, sgtools accounts for what, < 2% of the giveaways on site?
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because "sgtools leech group" want win more gas and banning more ppl to get more chances.
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There was another thread about this not too long ago. The guy was wrongfully banned because there was some issues with timezones. Probably the same for you.
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I was doing a few puzzles from the forum, each rewarding with a sgtool giveaway and a letter that combined with the others gave the link to a new giveaway, and once i got to the final sgtool giveaway i got the BANNED "You were caught trying to cheat the system or entering a sgtools protected giveaway without permission." page. The only thing i can think of that could be considered cheating was accessing those giveaways after i entered them from my "Entered" giveaway list, hence without passing through sgtools first, and i did this while logged from another computer. Other than that i've never tried to cheat the system or access private giveaways. Anyone else got the same issue? Is there a way to contact the creator of Sgtools to ask for support?
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