Not in giveaway, especially in giveaway won by person who has not-activated wins.
I've seen threads being closed when someone was asking about something similar - he was "winner of my giveaway turned out to be a real jerk, can I reroll", and after some time mod came and closed the thread, as "this thread is a call-out, as you can identify person talked about just by checking your giveaways".
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Could just put "Won gifts should be activated to the Steam account used during registration, and they should not be regifted, traded, or sold." (from Guidelines).
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You make it not worthwhile. By entering the giveaway they have nothing to gain, because they won't get the game if the win. By not entering they don't raise attention to themselves, and avoid being added to the giveaway creator's blacklist and to that of anyone who checks the proof.
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Yeah, but this is something that happens by checking your winners and not sending them the gift.
That's not a deterrence, that's a measure taken after they've already won (which prompts you to check), and it's something that is already heavily suggested all giveaway makers do. They're still entering the giveaway, even if they get caught.
Trying to figure out a way to deter them is hard, beyond reminding of the rules in your giveaway description.
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I guess many of them know. But from time to time I see a post of someone asking if they are allowed to regift (crazy, I know, but still..) so some of them don't know. I believe making the punishment harsher would stop it? Second of third regift and perma ban?
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Wouldn't you want to wait at least a day or two (the FAQ says 7 days for delivering/accepting) for people to get on the site and see that they have won GAs that they need to activate? Not everyone is on here 24x7. I'd at least attempt to reach out to the person and give them a chance to clean up their record - who knows, maybe you educate them and we have one fewer person doing it in the first place.
Personal opinion: If you're going to use this site, I think you need to follow site rules on both sides - by not delivering GAs according to your own criteria, I think you're at risk of being just as wrong as the person you're trying to punish. I say send them the game, report them, and move on.
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Sure, that works for me. My point was that I think we all need to work within the system, not create our own rules to police it ourselves. I don't know exactly how suspensions work on here, but I would imagine that repeat offenses cause longer suspensions and eventually permanent...right? Isn't that the best way to deter people from breaking the rules - kick them out for progressively longer periods and eventually permanently? Or do they just create new Steam accounts and come back on here with a clean slate? I'm still new here, please don't flame me for not knowing how everything works...
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Ohh, I didn't mean to sound like I was flaming, sorry if you took it that way. ^^
Yeah, that's true. They will get perm ban if they repeat the offenses. They might create new steam accounts, but they will have to have at least $100 worth of games on there. Doing that every time they get a perm ban will be less likely.
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I'm fine with the 7 days period. The only time I contacted a winner was when I saw he was not connected to this site for 5 days but that he was online on Steam, so I thought he'd appreciate to know that he won a game, and he was very glad I notified him about it.
I've had multiple winners who turned out to be re-gifters, but suppose it's someone with 6 re-gifted games over the course of, say, almost 2 years. His only way to redeem himself is to buy or trade for these games and activate them all, but I doubt it's even worth suggesting. I'm certainly not giving him another game to re-gift or trade.
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Your premise is faulty;
It's not considered an issue/actual regifting/grounds for suspension/etc until past that week.
After that point, and after repeated suspensions for it, it becomes an issue.
Waiting a week isn't going to matter, since the issue is Yirg not wanting to give their giveaways to people who have a long-established history of exploiting and circumventing the system, and whom get slaps on the wrist from the staff for doing so, and thus keep repeating it [because they know they'll get the games anyway].
Being new, you may not have encountered it, but there are some very bad elements to the recipients here on the site
As an example as to why this is a problem:
Some people use multiple accounts, enter tons of giveaways, and then give all the keys won to their main account.
If they're guaranteed not only to get the game key, but to have their secondary accounts unsuspended, what's the risk?
(PS: And this is why you should be hesitant making public level 0 and level 1 giveaways. LOTS of problems with exploiters/etc at those two levels.
And they can get.. intensely rude when called out. Or even when not :/ )
Now, FLIP SIDE, Yirg should be careful in how he's determining regifting.
For example, SGTOOLS claims I haven't activated basically any game I've won [you can manually check and see that's not true- as the site itself tells you to do because it's a regular issue.]
But, so long as his basis isn't inaccurate, I'd have to say that it's better to take a stand, than to promote corruption, greed, scamming, disrespect for others, and so forth, when there's simply no other recourse available [except denying wins to legitimate, respectful users, in favor of users who aren't as respectable].
I personally have had some extremely unpleasant encounters here on Steamgifts, and have had to adjust my own approach to compensate.
You're right- it's not good to jump to causing trouble, to being hostile toward people, or to making leeway in rules for your own considerations.
But there are times when you need to stand up for, if not what is right, or for other people, then for your own self-respect.
So long as you have valid reasons for what you're choosing to do- and there's no gain to denying a giveaway in the first place, you actually lose a giveaway slot for doing so- I support any user's choice to do such.
Things like personal preference, bigotry, etc, are NOT valid reasons.
Respect for rules and others is; desiring to support others and remove bad elements is; and attempting to compensate for the flaws of the site staff and their system, is.
So long as the person in question caused problems first, and seems to show no signs of improving or signs of remorse, then there's a valid doubt as to if supporting them in their actions is the right approach to take.
We can argue the merits of not catering to them- but only as much as we're already arguing over the initial problem. And when both courses are in doubt, then you HAVE to go with what you believe is right, or you're diminishing yourself as a person.
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That all said, Yirg can avoid nearly all problems by doing what I've switched to doing:
Whitelist giveaways, high contributor requirement giveaways, and group giveaways in which you manually invite people to the group after determining they're not going to be a major problem.
So in that sense- and the staff informed me of this as well- if Yirg is repeatedly taking Not Received due to how he's choosing to format his giveaways, then that become a problem on his side, and could get him temporarily suspended.
The overall consensus from staff and site members both, seems to be that giveaway problems are the fault of the giveaway creator for not restricting their giveaways appropriately.
So while denial may be fundamentally 'right', it's not easily supportable if you choose not to restrict your giveaways.
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Thanks for the explanation/education...you're right, I hadn't been exposed to all of this yet, and as I posted below, it seems I have been a..."victim". Two winners checked, one I just reported, the other a false-positive on sgtools as you describe yourself.
It's always sad to have to let go of a bit of naivety and acknowledge corruption. I guess I had "faith in the system" that these abusers would be found and banned, but apparently that's not happening. Taking all of that into consideration, I understand the OPs issue better and agree with your conclusions, though I'm not sure I'm willing to go to as much trouble as you are in creating manual-invite group GAs and what-not. Level 2+, invite-only on the forum, probably behind a mild puzzle, quick checks of winners pre-delivery...I think that's about as careful as I'm going to be.
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Level 2+, invite-only, mild puzzle-> seems to weed out the majority of the bad eggs, so yeah, that's the easy route :)
I should probably also mention that there's a lot of users that use scripts/bots to enter giveaways automatically, so this approach'd avoid a good deal of that.
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Interesting point of view. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.
I'm going to avoid any discussion about current giveaways so that this won't be taken as calling out. What I can tell you is that I regularly check SGTools results for false positives and don't rely on it. The amount of false positives for your account is unusually high and I would suggest to report it in the official thread (if you haven't already).
As I wrote above, I don't want to limit myself to create only whitelist-, high-level- or group-giveaways. Maybe I'm naive, but I view public giveaways as an important part of what makes this site what it is. If it means I have to take a Not Received every 80 giveaway I create, I'll do it. I hope it won't get me suspended.
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Sorry, let me restate my viewpoint:
That second comment of mine clarifies the common consensus, and indicates that I've accepted adhering to it.
The first comment clarifies that I don't agree with the need for it, and support anyone that wants to pursue a better environment.
In other words [and I think i noted this in the first comment], I totally support your perspective.
I personally don't want to deal with the stress and hassle, of dealing either with scummy users or with certain moderators who have mannerisms I view just as negatively.
If you're willing to put up with that, by all means!
Though, '1 in 80' seems a VERY hopeful estimate if you're doing level 0 and level 1 giveaways.
I've had negative results as high as 50% of people who've won my low level public or open group giveaways :X
But then, that's to be expected- Level 1 requires a single game of any value to be sent, Level 0 not even that.
Even if the staff was far more gung-ho about weeding out troublemakers and enforcing good behavior, there's not much you can do to prevent negatively-minded users from reaching those tiers.
So, as much as I support your general outlook, if you go posting below level 2, that seems rather like asking for trouble :X
Or, put another way- if I were posting a level 0 or level 1 giveaway, I wouldn't even consider pulling for a Not Received mark, since I knew what I was getting into from the start. That's really on me, then.
Unfortunately, no matter our intentions, at that level, and with the staff's outlook on things, it's just not feasible to try and make a stand- we'd find ourselves suspended [for excessive Not Received marks] far too fast, for one :P
So yeah- either forum, invite-based giveaway through mild puzzles;
Or open level 2+ giveaways.
Either one seems to weed out most of the problems of the site, without being too restrictive.
Well, that's my conclusions thus far, anyway, make of it what you will :)
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I'm not going to not deliver to anyone with unactivated wins. If it only happened once or twice and they where suspended for it, I'll deliver. I'm only considering doing it for serial re-gifters.
And btw, it seems that SGTools is broken if one is entering the user name. It works well with the script (which is what I'm using). Compare for example your profile:
http://www.sgtools.info/nonactivated/Sooth/76561198031261101 (using the script)
http://www.sgtools.info/nonactivated/Sooth/Valex (using, I assume, the form on the site)
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Hi Yirg, sgtools is not broken if you enter the fields manually. The problem is that you are entering the steam username, not the steam vanity name (mysocks).
If you enter the base landing for not activated gifts you'll see a help section where it tells you how to get the parameters.
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Questions:
How do I tell if they've activated their won games/ How can I tell if they're a serial regifter? thanks,
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From Back you can ask for reroll. But you do not need to state a proof in GA page at all (last sentence) since the reroll is done by support which will check your proof you provided in your ticket.
Otherwise thanks for reminding me to add a rule for this. Also since most users are TL;DR ones, I suggest to keep it as short as possible like "If you have a non-activated win, it will be rerolled".
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You can't ask for a re-roll if they already served suspension for these giveaways. You are expected to deliver the key to the winner, regardless of how many times and for how long they did it. The only alternative it to take the Not Received mark on your profile, which to me sounds like a more sensible option than giving something I paid for to someone so that they can re-gift or trade it.
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Of course you can ask, but from experience it usually gets rejected because they already served suspension. I'm going to continue ask for re-roll in these cases because I don't want Not Received marks on my profile and there's always some chance that they haven't served suspension, but delivering games to serial re-gifters is not something I'm keen on doing.
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How did you know if someone already served their suspension?
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I've had cases where the re-gifter is Level 4. I don't want to do only whitelist or group giveaway. I really like gifting publicly, I just want to be better protected against felons.
Not sure how caution can be applied to public giveaways. Anyone who matches the minimum level can enter, and you're expected to give them the key if they win - regardless of their conduct (as long as they've already been suspended for it).
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Yeah I've had a Level 4 giveaway winner in a Private group that did not activate his win. I didn't even notice and sent the key through the system, but he wasn't marking it as received for a few days and then I noticed he was suddenly suspended for that non-activated win I didn't notice. :O
I took my chances and rerolled and luckily for me the key still worked and the new winner was happy to receive it.
Now I make sure that I always check my winners for activated gifts. If it's over a year and only happened once for one little game I usually let it slide, especially if they gave away a few games in the meantime.
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Well, I don't, I don't care that much to be honest. If I saw a winner regifting, I would report, blacklist him, send some kinds words, and that's all. Not a big deal. Stuff happens...
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Can't deter them really (unless you're able to spot and blacklist them before they enter). But can (and should) ask for a re-roll if they win.
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Wow, I was checking for non-activation across my giveaways, and if mine are any indication, I'd guess steamgifts support is over-whelmed with this problem. (Not sure if it's regifting, but apparently lots of non-activations if the tool is accurate (was not in one case). There's gotta be a better way. I'm trying whitelists, groups, and levels - but an automated approach on steamgifts part would probably work wonders.
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don't post the proof this can be called calling out :'(
make paste bin private post where you can keep it and provide to someone if needed
let's hope this will deter..yours is the only method i can think of. just to be sure that entrants read giveaway description, make it forum giveaway instead of public like jatan does.
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Yes, I'm afraid it may be considered as calling out. Maybe I should write something more generic. Instead of "I will just update the giveaway description with the reason + proof and move on" write something like "'I'll just move on. People who see the Not Received on my profile can check the winner over at sgtools.info/activation and learn the real reason"
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Probably still calling out.
Hopefully nobody in support will decide to give you suspension for calling out now, since you just called out someone for not activating his games - all we have to do is check your winners (or future winners) and see who will pop out...
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I doubt such things happen on higher levels. I'm also not sure if you'd be fine with +1 not received giveaway and a lose of a giveaway slot. Luckily there is no rule I'm aware of that would prohibit you from NOT delivering the game to winner, but on the other hand other people could (incorrectly) mark you as a creator of fake giveaways, and I'm not sure if bunch of regifters are worth such reputation.
If I were in your situation, I'd probably ask for a reroll, and if not granted, deliver the game and report if needed afterwards. However, I also do understand you and if a winner was serious ungrateful regifter, perhaps I'd also follow your way.
It should be allowed to issue e.g. 1 "free" reroll for no reason per 10-20 successful giveaways created, just to avoid situation like this one.
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I don't know about high levels, but what zelghadis wrote in the description of this giveaway hints that it might happen there to. In any case, being Level 4 it'll be a while until it would make sense for me to limit many giveaways to higher levels. At this stage I prefer to limit most to Level 1 or 2 and still want to do some Level 0 ones. I guess I'm odd.
I didn't consider the point of losing a slot. I just ran out of slot yesterday, so this can be an issue.
Not really worried about people blacklisting me for a rare Not Received. I think my ratio speaks for itself and I plan to keep it this way.
I like your idea of a "free" reroll very much. Suppose in another giveaway someone cursed me and still entered, for sure it would be a perfect opportunity to use this free reroll. If such a user won, I wouldn't have delivered the key.
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While I would be against "free reroll", seeing how you might get a past regifter who learned his lesson, but seeing how OP is talking about 6 times regifter, it might be just a problem with enforcing rules (depending if he was caught earlier or not...) - 6 times regifter and still not perm-banned...
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You don't understand the point behind my idea. A people who won your giveaway might be the worst ungrateful scumbag you've ever seen if your life, yet you'd be obligated to deliver him a game because support would not approve a reroll without a strong reason of breaching site's rules.
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Well, I mostly focused on regifters, as that's what whole topic is about.
For jerks, we have blacklists. But yes, you have to send giveaway if they was fast enough to join before you blacklisted them.
But then, if someone really was a jerk, maybe support after reading his comments would decide it should be rerolled - if someone calls you a dick, I would say he automatically agrees to not receive your giveaway...
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Serial regifters that did serve the suspension are not a valid reason for reroll as well.
There are many minor cases which would be solved by a simple free reroll allowed once per every 10 or 20 giveaways created (and delivered).
Of course, that would most likely never happen, same like other 9378392 ideas. Luckily, I don't need it anyway.
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I suppose that's fair, but I believe if someone continues to regift after their suspension, they should be permanently banned.
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I hadn't been looking prior to this thread, so I learned something. When I used the sgtool.info site for a couple of my GA winners as a test, the first one hadn't activated my game (or several others this month), confirmed on their Steam profile, so I did report them.
The other though was weird - they had about 20 games listed as not-activated, but when I checked their Steam profile for the most recent 5 they were all there. How frequent are these inaccuracies with the tool? If I have to dig into every person's Steam profile before and after they win a GA of mine, that's going to be really cumbersome.
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Yeah, I saw that statement on the tool, but these were just normal games, one after another. Sooth mentions above that it reports a lot of his wins as not-activated as well, though they are easily verified on his profile. I wonder how common these "user-level" misses are.
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You may find this interesting: I just checked all 39 winners of my own GAs, and out of all of them I reported and blacklisted 2 for not activating, and blacklisted one additional that had a private Steam profile and a 37:1 win:gift ratio. All three of those were level 0-1.
I'm also considering blacklisting people as I see them that have ridiculously bad ratios, like 10:1 or worse. At some point, if you just can't afford to give, which is fine and understandable, you should also stop taking.
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hopefully these giveaway settings are just for hardcore users.
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Last I checked, the site admins don't actually give two flying fucks about regifting, it's not activating wins they don't like, and they view the two things as being the same thing. SG level doesn't really matter, some of the worst regifters I've seen had around SG level five. Just do what I do, ask the people you know if they want any of the extra games you have, then give the remainder away here, or some other place, and don't worry yourself about something the site admins here don't give a shit about anyhow, regarding a game you didn't even want.
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Good point, but doesn't really affects the outcome. Recently I asked for a reroll and I was told by the support that they have 1 week to activate the game - not to mark it received. Means if they mark it received immediately after the win, they still have 1 week to activate it during the 7 days, support won't punish them. Still, your suggestion would be a good addition to clarify things.
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you are caring too much about this. i'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it's better to ignore some things that happen here.
if you are too concerned about your gifts going to a regifter, focus on group or whitelist giveaways.
even upping the lv requirement will help, but you will leave outside some honest new users or low-lv people. you will still encounter some high-lv regifters, though.
making a public list of regifters is calling out.
well, maybe you could put them in your steam profile, but it's just taking things too seriously imo. xD
and losing a slot each time you don't deliver a gift because a troll-regifter wins it... i think it's not worth it.
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Yes, one takeaway is that I'm switching to Level 2+ for most of my public giveaways. I'll still do Level 1 and Level 0 for games that I wish no-one to win. This isn't a guarantee of anything of course, but when left without choice I'd rather take the Not Received. Luckily in 80 giveaways I can say that this isn't a frequent issue. Or maybe I was just lucky.
As for the loss of a slot, I can now say that there's nothing for me to worry about. It appears that users get an additional slot for every 3 successful giveaways, and I run through those in a matter of a few days (at least in the current pace, I was a passive lurker for a long time).
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This is an excellent idea Yirg and rightly justified! Regifters are the kind of people that get on my nerve the most here. And then those that have non-activated wins, they are even sneakier... I wish I had the courage to try this like you will. I must say that this is the part of the reason I now don't make public giveaways as much but mostly private forum giveaways and group/WL ones. Thinking back, my first winner was a VAC banned user that never gave away anything and that I couldn't contact in any way it tried. He never accessed the site again. It took the support 4 months to finally decide to delete the giveaway (as the information of other participants was lost and support was low on staff back then)
Anyway enough of my complaining... I'm just not sure how you would implement this without it being considered calling out. Because as others said even hinting that you don't give games to regifters and taking a non-received hit, might be considered circumstantional calling out. I'll have to think it through and see if I come up with anything.
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Why do you want to avoid them, when you can catch them and get them suspended? :3 The more often they get caught and get their punishment, the less people will end up regifting or not activating their wins.
I somehow enjoy getting people suspended.. noo, I'm not evil >:3 The most recent one I had didn't activate 15 of his wins (where in total he had won 18), and he got permabanned. :p
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I want to avoid the ones who "already served suspension for their infractions" but are still not good members of the community (e.g. those who don't plan to clean their sheet by buying/trading-for the games they regifted; haven't done giveaways in years).
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It's not a deterrent, but similar gain can be achieved by taking the Not Received and blacklisting them. They won't get anything and will be prevented from entering further giveaways by the same creator, but the price of course is not having a clean profile and losing a giveaway slot. I tend to think that if it's less than 1% of the creator's giveaways it won't hurt their reputation much, and the slot can easily be recovered by doing 3 more successful giveaways.
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I have regifted in the past and don't intend to 'clean' my sheet.
I don't get why that would not make me a good community member.
The reason I regave was because I won a game I didn't want. If I don't want the game, so why would I trade/buy a game I don't want just to 'clean' my sheet.
I have also since been more careful in the giveaways I join so I activate all the games I win.
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I wasn't sure if it makes sense to create a new thread for this, so I'll give it a try here first...
Is there any precedence of people buying games they regifted to clean their record?
Just a theoretical question of course – is there any point in requesting that they buy these games (or trade for them) in order to clean their record, and in the meanwhile keep the key they won until they do?
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There are 2 ways to go on about it in my opinion
1 - Groups/Invite only - That will weed out most users and then if you happen to come accross a regifter.... just report and reroll like others have suggested, the best way to deal with them its getting them banned, no point calling out someone that obviously doesnt care, might aswell show them the way out instead.
2 - Higher level GAs - With this you have less of a chance of finding one as higher level people tend to care more because of the effort/money put into it, but then again im sure there are some sneaky ones around.
This is one of the reasons i dont usually make public GAs or low level GAs anymore btw
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I know there's no reliable way to do it, but I'm considering to add something like this to my giveaway descriptions:
Is it going to deter anyone? Is updating the giveaway description with the proof (e.g. link to the relevant sgtools.info query) counts as "calling out"? I hope it's considered acceptable. The FAQ isn't very clear on this.
Any other ideas or suggestions?
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/0kSDk/the-regifter-hunter
Edit: I did everything possible to not call out anyone in this thread. Let's try to keep the discussion clean so that it doesn't need to be closed. Thank you!
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