Picking users for giveaways based on ratio is extremely flawed.
it's perfectly fine if you do checks every week and remove those that don't quality anymore :3
it's also very risky.
if someone notices a missing activated gift while you are applying for that whitelist/group, you will get a report for fake giveaway feedback and get permabanned.
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Yep, it's very risky to do, but I wouldn't be surprised at how far some people would go to achieve shapeshifting into a lovely leech.
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In that case, you should be grateful that they are making themselves so easy targets for a severe punishment that will almost guarantee that they won't be along for much longer (or at least shunned by a lot of people once they become infamous for it) :3
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Muhahah. Let the hunt begin. >:3
I'm way too tired right now though, I'm off to bed.
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if someone notices a missing activated gift while you are applying for that whitelist/group, you will get a report for fake giveaway feedback and get permabanned.
Someone changed my gift from received to not received after he noticed I blacklisted him. I reported him to the support and he got permabanned. But only for about half hour and then he was unbanned. So he basically faced no consequances. People who call out rule breakers get longer bans, which is really disappointing and I was pissed off with how the support handled my case of obvious giveaway feedback abuse which happened because that person wanted to get back at me for blacklisting him.
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Yup. When I gave him the gift he marked it as received and I blacklisted him because of his attitude. Day or two later I noticed he changed it from received to not received and I assumed he did it because he noticed I blacklisted him. I made a support ticket and told them everything, even included bunch of screenshots.
About day later support closed my ticket and permabanned the guy. After hour or two passed since I seen he got what he deserved I decided I'll remove him from my blacklist since he wont be around anymore, and when I went to his profile I saw he's no longer banned at all.
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As MuIIins said this exploit is hardly worth the risk because even the least observant people in a group will quickly pick up on whoever is behind on such measures (in general people on SG seem to be extremely vigilant when it comes to stuff like ratio) and will fairly quickly detect and depose of whoever is abusing the feature, along with a string of possible reports (and almost guaranteed blacklists) that could carry some heavy penalties since it's a serious rule violation, as well as publicly shunning the person at best if the behaviour is repeated.
Technically this could fool automated systems like SGTools but since winners are often manually checked by the giveaway creators anyway and suspicious results could still be retroactively monitored and reported, so again the risk is not worth the effort of being able to sneak into a few giveaways before you-know-what hits the fan.
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You cheater! Very interesting exploit you found out. :O
Hope, somehow, this can be fixed anytime soon. Til then, more people need to know this.
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no, lets say i unmarked something i won from you
if you noticed (cause no popup), the first thing you would do is to ask me why.
which could take a while.. so a few hours means nothing
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i guessed 8 hours, cause it should updated at least once a day, this site changes very fast.
here today, gone tomorrow,and than retro bundled cause reason. boom
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in theory yes,
in practice, you need to check it. if it will only drop a part of a lvl you wouldn't notice
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I haven't been using sgtools recently, but I thought there was some profile caching in place
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i hate sgtools - it needs another tab open.
and i find the whole concept of using it on a GA site humiliating. but to each his own
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To each his own indeed. I love SGTools as it allows me to create giveaways that are open to everyone, including Level 0 users, and not worry about wasting my time endlessly filing for re-rolls that rarely get approved ("user has already served suspension").
SGTools is the best thing that happened to this site since I started using it.
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What about leaked GA?
Besides, i know we all have a different sense of justice, but the sites have rules. Breaking them and serving the time is fine by me.
I'm not fine with repeated offenders, but those are few. I believe everyone should have at least one more chance (except Bibi, he had too many)
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Leaked GAs are solved beautifully by SGTools. Just check if the winner received a link through the site (using the Entries list), and if he/she hasn't it's an easy re-roll.
While you're at it also check the Invalid Entries report and blacklist anyone who entered the giveaways without getting a link from SGTools.
Sheer joy :-)
Let's not tarnish this discussion mentioning he who shall not be named.
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Yes. But i meant you still need to bother support...
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I was actually more concerned about my wasted time, creating tickets that go nowhere. With SGTools I have all the evidence needed, so the ticket is practically guaranteed to be approved. No-one's time is wasted, except that of rule breakers thinking they can outsmart the system.
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Well yes. But cause they used a leaked GA...
Doesn't mean they haven't been punished for their other mistakes.
And for the good games? Usually, whitelist and one or two groups. Now days usually BAA (which is half my whitelist anyway)
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And as for rule breakers, I'm willing to accept ones with old multiple wins, as these can be difficult to get rid of. That's why I don't configure my SGTools filtered GAs to check for this (or for VAC bans).
However, when it comes to unactivated wins - I don't care if by SG rules suspension equals absolution. I don't see it this way, and most likely never will. The only acceptable solution is to buy or trade for these games, then activated them. Since I'm forced to deliver the key to such users, I make sure that any public GA I do is only for a cheap games, where I can more easily accept this situation. But anything of real value goes through SGTools or to my whitelist or groups, where I know encountering such users isn't an issue.
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SGTools therefore cashes your SG-account-data for about one or two days. More importantly it refreshes its cache at a random time. You don't know when you have to uncheck your wins, so you must leave them unchecked for quite a while. If you do this at least for more recent wins it's likely to get noticed, since people would lose levels. And as MuIIins pointed out would result in a permanent ban.
Best solution of course would be to fix the feedback button after a given amount of time after t was selected, like 2 weeks or the like (to account for revoked gifts or the like)
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Would that not exclude and de-incentivize past rule breakers from making amends for past mistakes? Granted, its not likely to effect many people, but it's food for thought.
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I don't quite get what you mean with your first sentence. Maybe I wasn't clear enough with what I wrote above.
There actually should be only in very few cases the necessity to change the feedback after a given time (say 2 - 4 weeks).
So why not disable the ability to change the feedback after 4 weeks. This should give enough time to sort honest mistakes out. After that only support would be able to alter the feedback.
In case of rule breaking (this would be a "received" feedback but not activated) it would basically be the same as of now. Just they cannot cheat and mark a win as not received (in case the gifter is not active anymore this would go probably unnoticed.)
In case of double wins where the winner falsely marked as received but didn't touch the key, it would be more of a hassle...
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I've noticed that for some time, but as Mullins and others said, sudden unmarked feedback can lead perma-ban. So I don't worry about that much.
Rather, I was surprised many users don't know that they need to unmark for re-rolls.
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I've been thinking about that for a while, and so if I had to play this game, then here are the additional steps I'd take to lower the risk:
Finally, Mr. Bond, this
I can easily uncheck "sent" on a few giveaways
should read "received", not "sent" :-)
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Just knew this.
I just contacted support last month to change one of my giveaway feedback to received since I already sent him the gift long time ago and I just noticed it's not marked as received. Well, maybe this is the reason.
He's in my blacklist now.
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It's a well known "exploit", and it was one of the reasons why sgtools had a random interval of sync.
But right now Sgtools logs all the games that you have marked as not received if there is a variation on the number into db. So every time you try to sync or you are forced to sync on sgtools, all your "marked as not received" games gets stored in the database, so it's really easy to ban someone who is doing this to bypass sgtools :)
And I don't think people that recruit for good closed private groups would fall into this.
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For reason mentioned earlier by eeev and Fnord. As recipient of the gift I'm responsible for maintaining correct GA feedback.
If gift is revoked from my Steam account I can be suspended on SG (not that big deal, with proof of revocation it would be lifted) and, more importantly, blacklisted by many users (reversing that would take a lot of time and not possible in 100%). There is already a window of opportunity for that to happen. Adding extra delay for ticket processing - and that could be long, depending on support priorities and what privilege level is needed for that - could cause even more harm to innocent user.
I'd not mind at all if every time someonce removes received feedback, support was notified to investigate the case (or at least GA creator).
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I've thought of this, but never done it. It's up to the giveaway maker to check the winners ratio
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Hmmm interesting. I was wonder if this was possible, but never tested it. I'll have keep to an eye out for offenders and take screenshots of new recruits for my group. Thanks for the waning ♥
& Maybe giveaways even if not marked would show up on ones profile after one week?
Edit: Photo Example:
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Also, why does the ratio matter? If I would give away 1000 Bad Rats, would I deserve to have a better ratio than someone that gave away 10 Fallout 4? You see the ratio and forget about the value. :/
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PSA: Games received and received value ratio can be "cheated"
So, after seeing threads which requires a user to have a certain amount of games or value in games given away vs received (example, "gave 2x more games than you won"), I thought about a flaw to this procedure.
Let's use my sent/received value as an example.
Let's assume that a giveaway, whitelist or group requires users to have a certain give/receive ratio. Now let's assume that my received (58, $878.42) is too high compared to my sent (174, $1,475.27). If I go to my winnings page, I can easily uncheck "sent" on a few giveaways, therefore reducing my amount and value of won games. Enter giveaway/group/whitelist, and then mark the games as received.
To break it down:
Now, this thread is not intended to help users cheat their way into giveaways/groups/whitelists. This is a PSA to warn users that inviting users to giveaways based on ratio is extremely flawed and shouldn't be a trusted way to tell whether a person should be part of your whitelist/group/giveaway.
Update:
Thanks to a user for pointing out another flaw:
Users who have won multiple copies of a game can easily uncheck one of them without getting noticed, especially for developers giveaways where the developers will not bother verifying the user and checking for suspicious activity. There is almost no way to tell if a user if cheating their way through SGTools or other similar giveaways, or evading a ban.
Bottom line:
TL;DR?
Picking users for giveaways based on ratio is extremely flawed.
Why?
Read the thread.
Stay safe, always double-check for suspicious things on profiles. This "exploit" seems pretty simple and easy to achieve without getting caught. I may have missed an important detail, but as far as I can tell, this issue is a legitimate reason to be cautious about ratios, especially on recruitment threads.
Cheers and thanks for reading.
I'm off to bed.
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