PSA: Games received and received value ratio can be "cheated"


So, after seeing threads which requires a user to have a certain amount of games or value in games given away vs received (example, "gave 2x more games than you won"), I thought about a flaw to this procedure.

Let's use my sent/received value as an example.
Let's assume that a giveaway, whitelist or group requires users to have a certain give/receive ratio. Now let's assume that my received (58, $878.42) is too high compared to my sent (174, $1,475.27). If I go to my winnings page, I can easily uncheck "sent" on a few giveaways, therefore reducing my amount and value of won games. Enter giveaway/group/whitelist, and then mark the games as received.


To break it down:

  1. I stumble upon a giveaway/group recruitment/whitelist recruitment thread.
  2. I have too many games received compared to sent (AKA, I have a "bad" ratio)
  3. I go to my wins, and knock down a few games off my list.
  4. Boom, my ratio is already much better.
  5. I return to the giveaway/group recruitment/whitelist recruitment thread, apply/enter.
  6. I reset all of my wins to "received".

Now, this thread is not intended to help users cheat their way into giveaways/groups/whitelists. This is a PSA to warn users that inviting users to giveaways based on ratio is extremely flawed and shouldn't be a trusted way to tell whether a person should be part of your whitelist/group/giveaway.

Update:

Thanks to a user for pointing out another flaw:
Users who have won multiple copies of a game can easily uncheck one of them without getting noticed, especially for developers giveaways where the developers will not bother verifying the user and checking for suspicious activity. There is almost no way to tell if a user if cheating their way through SGTools or other similar giveaways, or evading a ban.


Bottom line:

TL;DR?
Picking users for giveaways based on ratio is extremely flawed.

Why?
Read the thread.

Stay safe, always double-check for suspicious things on profiles. This "exploit" seems pretty simple and easy to achieve without getting caught. I may have missed an important detail, but as far as I can tell, this issue is a legitimate reason to be cautious about ratios, especially on recruitment threads.

Cheers and thanks for reading.
I'm off to bed.

8 years ago*

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Picking users for giveaways based on ratio is extremely flawed.

it's perfectly fine if you do checks every week and remove those that don't quality anymore :3

it's also very risky.
if someone notices a missing activated gift while you are applying for that whitelist/group, you will get a report for fake giveaway feedback and get permabanned.

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8 years ago
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Yep, it's very risky to do, but I wouldn't be surprised at how far some people would go to achieve shapeshifting into a lovely leech.

8 years ago
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In that case, you should be grateful that they are making themselves so easy targets for a severe punishment that will almost guarantee that they won't be along for much longer (or at least shunned by a lot of people once they become infamous for it) :3

8 years ago
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Muhahah. Let the hunt begin. >:3
I'm way too tired right now though, I'm off to bed.

8 years ago
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I thought you were going to bed, you are still commenting.

8 years ago
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Good night!
Oh and your thread is definitely very useful. By drawing attention to the problem, people will be even more careful when inviting others to their groups/whitelists etc. which should make this exploit even harder to pull off.

8 years ago
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i will spam this everywhere

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8 years ago
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You need to restore your faith in humanity

8 years ago
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Yay, you've got your power to gif back :)

8 years ago
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if someone notices a missing activated gift while you are applying for that whitelist/group, you will get a report for fake giveaway feedback and get permabanned.

Someone changed my gift from received to not received after he noticed I blacklisted him. I reported him to the support and he got permabanned. But only for about half hour and then he was unbanned. So he basically faced no consequances. People who call out rule breakers get longer bans, which is really disappointing and I was pissed off with how the support handled my case of obvious giveaway feedback abuse which happened because that person wanted to get back at me for blacklisting him.

8 years ago
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Wait, he got permabanned and then unbanned again? Doesn't permaban mean that you will be banned forever, except if support changes it again? I don't see any reason why they would unban him. Strange indeed...

8 years ago
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Yup. When I gave him the gift he marked it as received and I blacklisted him because of his attitude. Day or two later I noticed he changed it from received to not received and I assumed he did it because he noticed I blacklisted him. I made a support ticket and told them everything, even included bunch of screenshots.

About day later support closed my ticket and permabanned the guy. After hour or two passed since I seen he got what he deserved I decided I'll remove him from my blacklist since he wont be around anymore, and when I went to his profile I saw he's no longer banned at all.

8 years ago
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Wow, that's.... interesting. I hope that doesn't happen too often, otherwise there might as well be no rules at all...

8 years ago
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Lol you're awesome. :P

8 years ago
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As MuIIins said this exploit is hardly worth the risk because even the least observant people in a group will quickly pick up on whoever is behind on such measures (in general people on SG seem to be extremely vigilant when it comes to stuff like ratio) and will fairly quickly detect and depose of whoever is abusing the feature, along with a string of possible reports (and almost guaranteed blacklists) that could carry some heavy penalties since it's a serious rule violation, as well as publicly shunning the person at best if the behaviour is repeated.
Technically this could fool automated systems like SGTools but since winners are often manually checked by the giveaway creators anyway and suspicious results could still be retroactively monitored and reported, so again the risk is not worth the effort of being able to sneak into a few giveaways before you-know-what hits the fan.

8 years ago
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Never thought about that, that's a big flaw indeed. Nice find!

8 years ago
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You cheater! Very interesting exploit you found out. :O
Hope, somehow, this can be fixed anytime soon. Til then, more people need to know this.

8 years ago
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Damn it. There's no BBQ chicken on this thread either.

8 years ago
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will this help?

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8 years ago
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;_;

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8 years ago
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Stop making me laugh every time I post something about chicken.
Makes my head hurt. ;_;

Mmmm chicken.

8 years ago
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Didn't make my head hurt, made me hungry though.

8 years ago
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WHY?!?

Why you do this to me? (
looks at ramen noodles and sighs

8 years ago
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8 years ago
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But SGTools require some time for cache to reset and all.
So checking there should be safe, right?
Also, if the person waited until the cache got reset s/he should be found out by then right?

8 years ago
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no, lets say i unmarked something i won from you
if you noticed (cause no popup), the first thing you would do is to ask me why.
which could take a while.. so a few hours means nothing

8 years ago
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While they haven't specified how long the cache takes, I thought it was at least a few days, so SGTools should be kind of safe from this.

8 years ago
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i guessed 8 hours, cause it should updated at least once a day, this site changes very fast.
here today, gone tomorrow,and than retro bundled cause reason. boom

8 years ago
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I see,
but you'd notice you contributor level going down right?

8 years ago
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in theory yes,
in practice, you need to check it. if it will only drop a part of a lvl you wouldn't notice

8 years ago
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I haven't been using sgtools recently, but I thought there was some profile caching in place

8 years ago
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for real cv, but some people read the raw value on sg profiles. :3

8 years ago
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i hate sgtools - it needs another tab open.

and i find the whole concept of using it on a GA site humiliating. but to each his own

8 years ago
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To each his own indeed. I love SGTools as it allows me to create giveaways that are open to everyone, including Level 0 users, and not worry about wasting my time endlessly filing for re-rolls that rarely get approved ("user has already served suspension").

SGTools is the best thing that happened to this site since I started using it.

8 years ago
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What about leaked GA?
Besides, i know we all have a different sense of justice, but the sites have rules. Breaking them and serving the time is fine by me.

I'm not fine with repeated offenders, but those are few. I believe everyone should have at least one more chance (except Bibi, he had too many)

8 years ago
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Leaked GAs are solved beautifully by SGTools. Just check if the winner received a link through the site (using the Entries list), and if he/she hasn't it's an easy re-roll.

While you're at it also check the Invalid Entries report and blacklist anyone who entered the giveaways without getting a link from SGTools.

Sheer joy :-)

Let's not tarnish this discussion mentioning he who shall not be named.

8 years ago
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Yes. But i meant you still need to bother support...

8 years ago
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I was actually more concerned about my wasted time, creating tickets that go nowhere. With SGTools I have all the evidence needed, so the ticket is practically guaranteed to be approved. No-one's time is wasted, except that of rule breakers thinking they can outsmart the system.

8 years ago
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Well yes. But cause they used a leaked GA...
Doesn't mean they haven't been punished for their other mistakes.

And for the good games? Usually, whitelist and one or two groups. Now days usually BAA (which is half my whitelist anyway)

8 years ago
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And as for rule breakers, I'm willing to accept ones with old multiple wins, as these can be difficult to get rid of. That's why I don't configure my SGTools filtered GAs to check for this (or for VAC bans).

However, when it comes to unactivated wins - I don't care if by SG rules suspension equals absolution. I don't see it this way, and most likely never will. The only acceptable solution is to buy or trade for these games, then activated them. Since I'm forced to deliver the key to such users, I make sure that any public GA I do is only for a cheap games, where I can more easily accept this situation. But anything of real value goes through SGTools or to my whitelist or groups, where I know encountering such users isn't an issue.

8 years ago
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SGTools therefore cashes your SG-account-data for about one or two days. More importantly it refreshes its cache at a random time. You don't know when you have to uncheck your wins, so you must leave them unchecked for quite a while. If you do this at least for more recent wins it's likely to get noticed, since people would lose levels. And as MuIIins pointed out would result in a permanent ban.
Best solution of course would be to fix the feedback button after a given amount of time after t was selected, like 2 weeks or the like (to account for revoked gifts or the like)

8 years ago
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Would that not exclude and de-incentivize past rule breakers from making amends for past mistakes? Granted, its not likely to effect many people, but it's food for thought.

8 years ago
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I don't quite get what you mean with your first sentence. Maybe I wasn't clear enough with what I wrote above.
There actually should be only in very few cases the necessity to change the feedback after a given time (say 2 - 4 weeks).
So why not disable the ability to change the feedback after 4 weeks. This should give enough time to sort honest mistakes out. After that only support would be able to alter the feedback.

In case of rule breaking (this would be a "received" feedback but not activated) it would basically be the same as of now. Just they cannot cheat and mark a win as not received (in case the gifter is not active anymore this would go probably unnoticed.)

In case of double wins where the winner falsely marked as received but didn't touch the key, it would be more of a hassle...

8 years ago
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8 years ago
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I bet those cases are very few and could be handled by support.

8 years ago
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I've noticed that for some time, but as Mullins and others said, sudden unmarked feedback can lead perma-ban. So I don't worry about that much.
Rather, I was surprised many users don't know that they need to unmark for re-rolls.

8 years ago
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I've been thinking about that for a while, and so if I had to play this game, then here are the additional steps I'd take to lower the risk:

  1. identify GAs you won from users who are no longer active on the site (Last Online more than 3 months ago, maybe?)
  2. if you have to choose GAs from users who are still active, then pick low value bundle trash GAs, so they won't notice the slight reduction in CV. Or, alternatively pick the highest value GAs, to reduce the number of people who can notice it.

Finally, Mr. Bond, this

I can easily uncheck "sent" on a few giveaways

should read "received", not "sent" :-)

8 years ago
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Maybe there should be moderator queue for these when they have cleaned up the normal pile. They could check these users and confirm those removals are legit.

Too bad they already have way too much work to do...

8 years ago
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Just knew this.
I just contacted support last month to change one of my giveaway feedback to received since I already sent him the gift long time ago and I just noticed it's not marked as received. Well, maybe this is the reason.

He's in my blacklist now.

8 years ago
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It's a well known "exploit", and it was one of the reasons why sgtools had a random interval of sync.

But right now Sgtools logs all the games that you have marked as not received if there is a variation on the number into db. So every time you try to sync or you are forced to sync on sgtools, all your "marked as not received" games gets stored in the database, so it's really easy to ban someone who is doing this to bypass sgtools :)

And I don't think people that recruit for good closed private groups would fall into this.

8 years ago
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Why can I even change the 'received' status years after a win? That makes no sense to me.

8 years ago
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Because sometimes games bought from dubious sources can get revoked weeks or even months after the giveaway has ended.

8 years ago
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So? Would you then hold the giver responsible for that?

8 years ago
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Yes, because if a key gets revoked due to it being acquired from a dubious source, the giver has put your account in danger.

8 years ago
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Your account is never in danger in case a revoke happens. If it's a Steam gift, only the original buyer gets in trouble and if it's a Steam key, nothing happens.

8 years ago
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If you have a game marked as "received", and it's not on your account, it will look like you've got a gift that's not activated. That's grounds for suspension, and it will make it impossible to join through most SGtools giveaways.

8 years ago
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Oh yeah, you're totally right. Thought you were talking about Steam accounts.

8 years ago
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That sounds like it's much more open to abuse on the receiver side than on the gifter side. Ever regifted or didn't activate, just remove the 'received' and SGtools will think you're totally legit.

8 years ago
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8 years ago
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But that still begs the question why not just disable the ability to change this at any time and let support handle the case of a gift that disappeared.

8 years ago
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For reason mentioned earlier by eeev and Fnord. As recipient of the gift I'm responsible for maintaining correct GA feedback.
If gift is revoked from my Steam account I can be suspended on SG (not that big deal, with proof of revocation it would be lifted) and, more importantly, blacklisted by many users (reversing that would take a lot of time and not possible in 100%). There is already a window of opportunity for that to happen. Adding extra delay for ticket processing - and that could be long, depending on support priorities and what privilege level is needed for that - could cause even more harm to innocent user.

I'd not mind at all if every time someonce removes received feedback, support was notified to investigate the case (or at least GA creator).

8 years ago
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That's so sneaky... any fix in progress?

8 years ago
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I have your "fix" right here.

View attached image.
8 years ago
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recently one of my recieved gift automatically unchecked
and idk why

may be move topic to Bugs / Suggestions ?

8 years ago
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I've thought of this, but never done it. It's up to the giveaway maker to check the winners ratio

8 years ago
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Hmmm interesting. I was wonder if this was possible, but never tested it. I'll have keep to an eye out for offenders and take screenshots of new recruits for my group. Thanks for the waning ♥

& Maybe giveaways even if not marked would show up on ones profile after one week?

Edit: Photo Example:

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8 years ago*
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8 years ago
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Also, why does the ratio matter? If I would give away 1000 Bad Rats, would I deserve to have a better ratio than someone that gave away 10 Fallout 4? You see the ratio and forget about the value. :/

8 years ago
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This was just a diversion, for Jbond to brag about all those amazing games he won :p

but damn that could be an issue, never thought about that

8 years ago
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All of the more reason to check for Real CV using SGTools and not RAW value here. As KnSYS mentioned above, if someone tries to play the system this way, SGTools will detect and ban him/her.

8 years ago
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Missuse of giveaway feedback: Permanent.

Good luck´, with that.

8 years ago
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  1. User unchecks some gifts that were received.
  2. User enters giveaway.
  3. User wins giveaway.
  4. User is caught with "unmarked wins" when checked.
  5. User is temporarily suspended while Support investigates.
  6. Giveaway is re-rolled because winner is suspended.
  7. Naughty user's suspension is made permanent due to misuse of giveaway feedback.
8 years ago
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First two offenders reported for misuse of giveaway feedback :3

SGTools is always watching...

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8 years ago
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