Happy
1) You mean -100.000+ (check the petition lol)
2) Gaben's wallet raising by....
calculating....
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actually it caused a loss. Gaben stated in an AMA that the amount of cash lost by the mail-service of support who got flooded by hate mails for paid mods, was bigger then the revenue of the mods itself. Maybe next time they should take a 100% cut, to even it out.
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We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing.
lol
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because they get a free way to make money, as simple as that. Bad luck they get so screwed by our community that they had to put all the thing off.
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it didn't mind me too much that valve was making money for when others were selling things on their platform, just that the whole moding experiance should not have been forced by a paywall. I would have been fine if this started out in a newer game.
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See also "gems" and not understanding basic economics :-(
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They removed it because it was costing a reported 1 million USD per day in PR trying to fight the backlash money talks BS walks ;)
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To help you understand why we thought this was a good idea, our main goals were to allow mod makers the opportunity to work on their mods full time if they wanted to
Sorry, what? You say that after giving the mod creator 25% of the revenue? Okay lol.
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Well, some mods in those 2/3 days make 700$ with that 25% (Yeah, Steam and Bethesda win 2100$). That modders probably gonna turn mad now, because they lose all that money. xD
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But every time you start selling something digital 90% of purchases is concentrated in front. I doubt they would have even 70$ dollar sales in second month of this...
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I'm not a math professional, but I think 700 is more than 0 anyway.
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That was based on hype + free weekend. Don't take me wrong, it would be nice for modders to be paid, but if it was donation button instead of paywall, that 700 would have been 3000$ without 75% going to Valve...
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Yes, dude, I'm with you on that, but that is not the point of my post. I'm saying the modders who won 700 bucks and now they lost all gonna be mad. Simply as that.
Donation button it's good, but I don't think they gonna win the same anyway. Nexus mods already have a donation button, and I don't see any modder rich.
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To add to this. YOU ONLY GET MONEY IN STEAM BUCKS. Not real cash.
I don't think the gas company take steam bucks as a currency.
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Really? Coulda sworn I heard it was only steam cash a few times.
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Pretty sure they had a "developer wallet", which would allow them to transfer funds to a bank account.
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We did it guys. And respect for Valve for actually listening and pulling it all back.
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I guess we should change our ratings back on Skyrim?
Fun fact: Skyrim steam rating went from 98% Overwhelming Positive to 84% Very Positive.
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yeah, i'll be deleting my free weekend review in a bit... :P
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idk the scars should remain as a reminder. Their actions have long standing repercussions for the community. If the modders and members of the community can act like nothing happened, then sure. But that is not the case and the landscape changed.
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I doubt everyone will remove them. I don't see it ever going back to 98%.
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Boy that was fast. I wonder how Valve would have reacted if there was a shitstorm regarding region locks.
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+1 its sad steam community didnt rally for that. it probably would have did something
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Uh huh...like Valve "listens" to its customer base - that would mean actually doing some work - D'oh!
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They listen to publishers and no one else, otherwise we'd have had DRM-free as a flag in the storefront for games that choose to be DRM-free.
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they listen to "money"...that much is clear. Sadly their "business" people have less than no clue when it comes to how to make money without being stupid OR pissing their consumer base off almost ALL of the time :-( Sadly much of this "money" could be had while also making most of their customer base feel like it was a "cool, new feature"... but heck, why do that when you can piss everyone off?
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Not like you had any argument against Region Locks.. Claiming those poor Russians won't be able to make a living out of bypassing the regions while selling games with 30% profit doesn't stand tall.
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Happy because that system had too many problems.
I just hope this didnt kill the idea that paying or donating to modders its not a bad thing.
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mkay, but then again what the share modders will receive 25%? and 75% goes to valve/gd? it's a bit unfair I think.
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They're right to pull back for the moment - it was introduced too quickly, and as they've said, they stepped into it at the wrong place - but it's clear they're still considering this for future games (or games which will introduce better mod support in future), and I for one welcome it as long as modding outside of Steam is treated equally to modding on Steam. It saddens me that some people are so negative towards the idea in general, though given the recent history of the game industry it's understandable why people are concerned.
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They are so negative because vast majority of Skyrim mods wouldn't be possible under paid model, and because modding community was shattered by this, modders who agreed with Valve first and pulled mods off Nexus now being ostracised...
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It's not just that, they basically took greenlight, removed the moderation and combined it with the worst part of DLC and didn't even bother to get any decent mods on board before launch.
This would have gone a lot differently if they had launched with a decent selection of large, quality mods that were pay what you want and if they had proper moderation (but greenlight has shown that we can't trust them to moderate submissions). And also if Bethesda/Valve hadn't gotten greedy with the 75% profits taken.
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Large, quality mods take time to make. If they had simply turned existing ones into paid items, many would complain that they used to be free. If the invited modders (or Valve/Bethesda themselves) had taken time to create new ones, then there would be complaints from those who weren't invited to be a part of the process, who would feel that those who were had an unfair headstart, as well as from some who would see it as Steam further attempting to impose their own ideas of what modding should be.
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That's why I said pay what you want, people could still get them free by paying $0 and then later on Valve could start letting mods have a minimum price once they had everything figured out.
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That sounds reasonable as long as it was clear what was going to happen, so there'd be no calls of bait and switch. I wouldn't like to be a modder in that situation though, the choice of releasing or not at that stage would feel like a gamble.
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It's just skyrim, it's just a temporary victory (they will return with more lawyers, the true american soldiers) but is good to see the PC community still had some strength. It was good.
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Send lawyers, guns and DLC...that will fix everything :-(
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If gamers were like "we won't buy anything for a week" Valve would literally throw an amazing sale just to spite them all, and prove how weak the community is.
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Pretty sure "amazing sale" (aka not that usual "same or higher prices as everyone else") would be community victory.
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this was unexpected, i thought valve would do some changes here and there, removing the payment feature is a good thing but seems like an easy cop out,
ok...this was so badly implemented that it ended hurting modding more than anything else, i have no idea how something like this would ever work, but since they were the ones introducing it i thought they did
apparently valve is right "We've done this because it's clear we didn't understand exactly what we were doing."
EDIT: For once i can say i am proud of this community
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Nice try, this is PR speak for we will try this again in the near future.
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why not? :
let me look him up
you gonna compare paid mods to nazis? plz
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it's not about comparing mods to nazis, it's about a way of thinking, just 'cause this won't affect you right now doesn't mean it's not important nor it will not affect you in the future.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
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but it wont. i barely buy games, i do not install any mods, i do not buy any dlc's. As of recently, I dont even have time to play those games that I have and the situation does not look like it will change.
Even if the issue persisted, which it didnt as paying for mods was taken out, it wouldnt bother me as I wouldnt get involved. Mods could disappear from steam altogether and I wouldnt care.
Also, i find it hard to agree with that quote and accept what it's suggesting.
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Yeah best intention while taking around 40% of profits..
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They just did not want to have to refund that money when mods didn't work...this whole thing woke them up to the reality of what they would be required to actually do... Idiots - this stuff keeps their game alive and then they got greedy but when the community pointed out that they'd actually have to stand behind taking money for mods, they decided, um, hey...maybe NOT a good idea.
Sheesh, did NO ONE go to business school?
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This is good, very good! Woah, I am actually surprised and impressed to see that they have actually listened to the community. Steam's monopoly is still a bad thing and this served as a reminder. Although they removed paid mods from Skyrim, who knows what's coming up next?
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Uh huh... did they put PWYW in...that's no victory. And even if not, it's a regroup until they can figure out how to smooth it out and still make money.
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NO, no, no ,no,no and no. No mod should ever cost money, end of story. They should have donation links and that is it, if a mod maker really wants to make a living off developing software they should make a game. Mod quality will just plummet if money is directly involved, they will build their mods with the sole intention of making money. If their mod is not very popular it would end up being abandoned, if it is moderately popular they will hold features back until they reach certain "milestones" and only the very popular mods will get appropriate attention, but at the same time this kills most potential of there being good free mods. What makes mods as good as they are now is because modders go in with no intention of making money, they make mods because they love doing it, not to make a quick buck.
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I think paying for mods is a good thing, but a better thing is to have every mode for free, but then a donation button or something like that. There's definitely a few mods I would love to give a few quid to the person who made it, but if I had to purchase any of these mods before I tried them, I wouldn't of ever even tried them.
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Skyrim global rate on Steam droped from magnificent 96% to 84% of the positives reviews, so they probably discovered simple fact - if they ruin their products, The Internet will find way to ruin them. In one way or another.
That does not change the fact that Bethesda and Valve showed their true faces. I hope people don't forgot about that too fast.
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They will, no doubt. The Gabencock is too strong for most. :(
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It is hard not to fmove on elsewhere. I have really been hating the vast majority of Valves choices the last few years but there is literally not a single alternative that has even a fraction of the features that keep me on steam like for example auto updates and all my games being in one place with a single unified friends list and a ui that isn't complete trash.
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my point is to remember what happens here and just forget about "Good Uncle Gabe".
Valve is the same company as EA or M$ etc. Generally they just don't act as total douchebags too often but hey, right now they did it exactly in this way.
of course playing PC/MAC games without Steam is very difficult but maybe this will be good lesson for gamers to not trust Gaben too much.
btw, lel
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Just don't buy directly from Steam if you don't want to support them.
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I said it before and I say it again: I think a lot of changes had to be made (the modders' cut of the earnings, copyright issues, etc) but I really had good expectations for that idea. Everyone shouted "add a donate button" and I think that's a good idea but it's not a reliable one. I mean, it's hard to know how much people would donate, otherwise every company would do that instead of charging for a game (which would eliminate piracy, by the way). The system was new, it had it's bad things but it could have been perfected, instead now it's dead (or maybe they are back at the drawing board). We are not entitled to free content (unless it was promised to us), we are used to. I'm glad to have free stuff and it would be kind of painful for me to have to pay for every mod I have downloaded for Skyrim but I understand that the modders don't HAVE to work for free (and there would be free mods anyway).
The whole thing was handled poorly by Valve (by not being more open to change instead of just killing it) and by the community by acting like "give diretide" again.
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Exactly at that last part. If they want to do something like this, they should have opened the idea and talked to community, the same way they say they're listening to us.
I for one don't want to pay for mods, especially not for Skyrim. Simple wrong load order and you're screwed, game update and you're screwed, incompatibility with other mods etc.. It simply wouldn't work. It would only work for a couple casual skyrim players who would pay for a few weapons and that's all.
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Totally agreed. Especially the part about entitlement. I also believe the celebration by some people may be premature. lol
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I'm sure they're back to the drawing board. They had to react quickly because the backlash was too strong, and that didn't leave time to figure out how to tweak it.
The main issue though is not entitlement to free content. It's the fact that a lot of mods are collaborative work, borrowing bis and pieces from each other and that wasn't possible anymore. People who had made their assets available for anyone to use were pulling them for fear that others would make money off their work. People were also outraged that Bethesda could make more than the mod makers for mods that actually fixed problems with the game (broken quests, terrible UI) and that would incite developers in releasing broken/unfinished games with modders not only fixing them for free, but bringing extra revenue in doing so.
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I hope not, it doesn't really change what they did. And I think Valve hasn't backed out completely, they are gonna make some changes and introduce it in a different way, mark my words.
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Yeah, I just read about it too. On PCMR people are suggesting that reviews should stay the way they are now... I think it may reach 90% positive reviews, but I'm not sure.
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http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218
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