We don't have censorship laws in Germany. And with games like Mortal Kombat X being allowed to be sold in Germany, titles like Kane and Lynch look like nothing in comparison.
That's interesting, wasn't aware of that situation in Germany O.o
In an ideal world, it should be the parents who control what their kids can/cannot play, not the laws or game publishers...
It is up to the parents to decide what their kids may or may not play. All age restrictions are binding for the sale and therefore should only have an impact on minors, while publishers often overdo it and block their stuff for the entirety of PC gamers (consoles are NOT affected by this).
The fact that their government is trying to control the situation that caused the problem. No publisher or reseller wants to fight or get sued by a government so it's easier to just exclude them all together. It's up to the people of Germany to change the laws so they can be like most of the rest of the world.
No law leeds to be changed. Publishers just need to get their facts straight.
It is important to note that neither the USK, nor the FSK, BPjM or the "German Government", will in any way, shape or form suggest or demand censorship. The USK – to stay on the topic of gaming – will at most give suggestions on how one can reduce the age restriction (e.g. “USK ab 16” instead of “USK ab 18”), but it does not demand the implementation of their advice. To clarify, it is the makers of the game that undertake the censorship to receive a more economically favorable rating and not the USK, FSK, BPjM or the “German Government”.
The demands of many influential people in the gaming industry or other gamers that we Germans “should have our politicians resign” or that we should demand “other laws” are therefore misleading and the completely wrong approach to the problem. The laws, in their current form, are not the issue – one just has to understand them.
"The laws, in their current form, are not the issue – one just has to understand them."
If the rest of the world doesn't understand them then I don't agree with this statement. There is obviously ambiguity in how your laws are presented or there wouldn't be this issue. Quit placing the blame on publishers and distributors who don't have these same issues when doing business in other countries. No one is demanding "other laws". They just want universal clarification which appears that your politicians are unable to do and in some cases agree upon. It's not everyone else's jobs to understand your laws. It's your government's job to present them in a way that people can understand them without any doubt of the wording - something they have failed to do for many years now.
Here's a quick summary of what's most important to understand (and apparently is still to complicated to work with for some "legal departments"... sigh):
Every game a publisher wants to advertise/sell openly (on TV/on shelfs in stores etc.) needs to be rated by the USK with a rating not "higher" than "USK 18" (-> PEGI 18 or ESRB 17).
Even if a game does NOT get an USK rating (e.g. due to too detailled blood/gore effects), it is still allowed to be sold to adults (and adults only, as per the Youth Protection Law) in its original, uncensored form. Publishers like Bethesda, Square Enix and Capcom think that this already counts as a "ban", which is clearly NOT the case. It is a "ban" (if you want to call it like that) for minors, but not for adults. It is, however, not allowed to be advertised or sold openly anymore. This is why publishers then rather censor their stuff in order to get at or below the "USK 18" rating. No advertising = lower sales. Lower sales = less money.
There is not a single law that requires publishers to implement technical barriers like activation locks, region locks or any other kind of mechanism that blocks Germans from playing a specific title. Bethesda, Square Enix and Capcom (to name the three biggest) simply ignores this fact and keep insisting that "no USK rating" automatically means "ban". More and more titles get blocked every month for no reason (even some of those with USK 18 ratings, which is even more fucked up...).
Every adult German citizen is allowed to purchase from abroad and import indexed media (indexed = those titles that the USK refuses to rate and therefore get put on the infex of "Medie harmful to Youth" by the BPjM (Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons)) for their own, personal use. I would like to direct your attention towards an interview from the German magazine PCGames with the former federal minister for family, seniors, women and Child/youth affairs (the current federal minister for defense, respectively), Mrs. Ursula von der Leyen, dated as early as 2009, in which she affirms, that these kinds of purchases are clearly legal. Nothing concerning this statement has changed to this date:
"Correct is the following: According to the youth protection law, you are allowed to order games by mail order, which are on the index list in Germany. It has to be assured, however, that these games cannot be disseminated in any way to children and youths. In case the economy does not partake in this, it may lead to displeasure and anger with the gamers - it is, however, fully in the range of youth protection." PCGames (German)
We (the team of the for UNCUT! Steam community group) have sent dozens and dozens of emails to Bethesda, Square Enix and Capcom, trying to work things out, but they keep ignoring us. But thanks to our new partner of our group, GamesPlanet.com, we are now able to get our concerns to influental employees or department managers of companies like Bethesda. This is one of the reasons why I still have not given up my hope.
There are censored versions of some games, correct. But these cuts solely happen through the hands of the dev/pub and are not required by the German law in any way.
As long as it has been going on why hasn't anyone stepped up and said something? Publishers and developers must have got that impression from somewhere. It's not like they have this same attitude towards other countries without a reason. You have a voice. Use it instead of waiting for someone else to do it. Otherwise you will never see this issue go away.
We have tried many times to reach out to publishers to get rid of some myths and misconceptions. Unfortunately, all publishers and developers which continue to believe in these falsehoods justify their actions by stating that the information has been presented to them through ‘payed legal departments and lawyers’. Of course, none of this changes the fact that these presumptions are fundamentally false.
A very plausible explanation for all of this is that none of the legal departments or lawyers in question are from Germany, not to mention that it is very unlikely that they have taken all aspects and circumstances of the German Protection of Young Persons Act into consideration. There can be no other explanation for this.
The consequences that are stipulated in the clauses of the German Protection of Young Persons Act regarding PC and video games have, in accordance with applicable German law, despite regular assumptions and claims, no effect on people of full age (18+) in Germany. We are talking about the Protection of Young Persons Act, not a Protection of Adult Persons Act, which simply does not exist in Germany.
And beside that... It is only us PC gamers (especially in the combination with Steam) that are mistreated like that. There are no such limitations or region locks on consoles.
hilarious thread description but it's not playable in germany because of their censorship laws. The game might have too much violence for germany!
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We don't have censorship laws in Germany. And with games like Mortal Kombat X being allowed to be sold in Germany, titles like Kane and Lynch look like nothing in comparison.
http://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/qwwYtAB
http://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/LJ7iWjA
http://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/GMVDeOM
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It's sad that some games get banned or censored in Germany. This group is trying to do something about it.
Thanks for the giveaway!
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That's interesting, wasn't aware of that situation in Germany O.o
In an ideal world, it should be the parents who control what their kids can/cannot play, not the laws or game publishers...
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It is up to the parents to decide what their kids may or may not play. All age restrictions are binding for the sale and therefore should only have an impact on minors, while publishers often overdo it and block their stuff for the entirety of PC gamers (consoles are NOT affected by this).
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The fact that their government is trying to control the situation that caused the problem. No publisher or reseller wants to fight or get sued by a government so it's easier to just exclude them all together. It's up to the people of Germany to change the laws so they can be like most of the rest of the world.
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No law leeds to be changed. Publishers just need to get their facts straight.
It is important to note that neither the USK, nor the FSK, BPjM or the "German Government", will in any way, shape or form suggest or demand censorship. The USK – to stay on the topic of gaming – will at most give suggestions on how one can reduce the age restriction (e.g. “USK ab 16” instead of “USK ab 18”), but it does not demand the implementation of their advice. To clarify, it is the makers of the game that undertake the censorship to receive a more economically favorable rating and not the USK, FSK, BPjM or the “German Government”.
The demands of many influential people in the gaming industry or other gamers that we Germans “should have our politicians resign” or that we should demand “other laws” are therefore misleading and the completely wrong approach to the problem. The laws, in their current form, are not the issue – one just has to understand them.
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"The laws, in their current form, are not the issue – one just has to understand them."
If the rest of the world doesn't understand them then I don't agree with this statement. There is obviously ambiguity in how your laws are presented or there wouldn't be this issue. Quit placing the blame on publishers and distributors who don't have these same issues when doing business in other countries. No one is demanding "other laws". They just want universal clarification which appears that your politicians are unable to do and in some cases agree upon. It's not everyone else's jobs to understand your laws. It's your government's job to present them in a way that people can understand them without any doubt of the wording - something they have failed to do for many years now.
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Here's a quick summary of what's most important to understand (and apparently is still to complicated to work with for some "legal departments"... sigh):
We (the team of the for UNCUT! Steam community group) have sent dozens and dozens of emails to Bethesda, Square Enix and Capcom, trying to work things out, but they keep ignoring us. But thanks to our new partner of our group, GamesPlanet.com, we are now able to get our concerns to influental employees or department managers of companies like Bethesda. This is one of the reasons why I still have not given up my hope.
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I can't belive germany has these levels of censorship.
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We don't have censorship in Germany. Publishers and developers think that they need to censor their stuff when they really don't.
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I thought there was censored version of some games, like this and fallout 3, new vegas...
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There are censored versions of some games, correct. But these cuts solely happen through the hands of the dev/pub and are not required by the German law in any way.
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As long as it has been going on why hasn't anyone stepped up and said something? Publishers and developers must have got that impression from somewhere. It's not like they have this same attitude towards other countries without a reason. You have a voice. Use it instead of waiting for someone else to do it. Otherwise you will never see this issue go away.
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We have tried many times to reach out to publishers to get rid of some myths and misconceptions. Unfortunately, all publishers and developers which continue to believe in these falsehoods justify their actions by stating that the information has been presented to them through ‘payed legal departments and lawyers’. Of course, none of this changes the fact that these presumptions are fundamentally false.
A very plausible explanation for all of this is that none of the legal departments or lawyers in question are from Germany, not to mention that it is very unlikely that they have taken all aspects and circumstances of the German Protection of Young Persons Act into consideration. There can be no other explanation for this.
The consequences that are stipulated in the clauses of the German Protection of Young Persons Act regarding PC and video games have, in accordance with applicable German law, despite regular assumptions and claims, no effect on people of full age (18+) in Germany. We are talking about the Protection of Young Persons Act, not a Protection of Adult Persons Act, which simply does not exist in Germany.
And beside that... It is only us PC gamers (especially in the combination with Steam) that are mistreated like that. There are no such limitations or region locks on consoles.
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Thanks :)
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I've picked up a few global keys recently and they always say 'not for Germany' on the store.
Last one was for Deadspace.
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Not playable in Germany yet one of the languages is German. That makes a lot of sense.
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Poor Germans. :( But thanks for the giveaway. :)
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Bump! Rip for germans, they always seem to draw the short straw with games compared to everyone else (except maybe Australia).
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received
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Great, thanks for the feedback and enjoy! :)
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