This reminder is meant to apply to all such cases, not just this most-recent occurrence.
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I know that, but there is a surge now with those, if they read Deponia then they might actually click rather then ignoring it (if they read the forum at all). Just a tip.
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That is a possibility, but they are more likely to click on the Deponia threads for that very reason.
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I think everyone generally knows this but doesn't know Deponia is different when compared to two overwhelmingly similar titles. Your PSA is not announcing the actual issue, it's avoiding it. If I entered a giveaway for Rainbow Six Siege and received Duke Nukem Forever, I already know to not mark it as received. These two Deponia games though? There are people that don't realize they're different games and they're going to ignore a PSA that's citing a rule they already know exists because it's not the rule they need to be reminded of, it's the fact the two Deponia games are separate games. There are so many games that are called one thing on the Steam Store but say something else in the key activation screen, they have no way of knowing without independent research the games are different.
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Your PSA is not announcing the actual issue, it's avoiding it.
You seem to misunderstand what the actual issue is. That is probably my fault for not being clear about it. The issue is "similarly titled games." This incident with Deponia is simply the latest occurrence in a long line of similar cases. Remember Battlerite Lite? Remember Pirates of Black Cove Gold? The list goes on and on. This PSA is meant to address all such cases, not just this one instance.
If the point of this PSA is being missed, then I need to address that. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.
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I think it may be helpful to advise winners on what to do (beyond not marking as "Received") if they find themselves in this situation. Reaching out to the creator, potentially being willing to agree to delete the giveaway, whatever ends up being the most effective way to not have an unactivated win/ not inundate support with requests.
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Waiting a week and marking not received is only thing that is needed from winner.
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Since it falls under the "similar title" allowance, the most appropriate procedure would presumably be for the winner to comment what game they actually received, and for the GA creator to put in a Change Giveaway Game support ticket linking to that comment.
That said, it's a free game either way, so there's not much difference in this instance between that approach or deletion. Likewise, if the winner already has the game provided, it'll likely end with a deletion regardless.
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I feel that my advising people what to do is such a situation is not appropriate as it is totally up to the winner as to how he or she wishes to proceed. I can, however, list some applicable reminders.
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... creator of the giveaway and his or her winner may delay processing the ended giveaway for as long as they are in agreement. ...
As long as neither of them demands action, none is required to be taken.
this could open to new possibilities. at first they seemed all positive and nice, but then... couldn't be this exploited in some -bad- way?
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As of yet, I know not how this can be exploited. A giveaway which has ended without either party taking action would simply sit and do nothing. There is no point in maintaining this state of affairs aside from taking up giveaway slot.
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if only steamgifts had a built-in tool to check activations, then people could instantly know they redeemed an incorrect game when they mark a win as received...
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That would be nice, yes. Until then, people will probably keep using http://www.sgtools.info/activation for rudimentary checks.
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In the case of this Deponia game being a different appid, would it not mark the standalone Deponia game as previously won AND automatically remove the Complete Journey after SG account gets synced, and thus future giveaways for BOTH games won't show up on the winners list anyway? Or am I mistaken on something?
And no, I'm not arguing that the wrong game being used in the giveaway is right ;-)
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Does winning a game automatically hide other giveaways for it? I know it removes all entries for giveaways for the same game that are open, but as far as I know it doesn't remove the option to enter for said game afterwards.
Automatically Removing Entries After a Win
Does this prevent all possibilities of winning a game more than once?
No, a user could still end up the winner of a giveaway, and then a different giveaway they entered in the past could be rerolled, causing them to have two wins for the same game. Or, a user could win a giveaway, believe they are not going to receive the gift from the giveaway creator, and start entering more giveaways for the same game, only to win again.
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Does winning a game automatically hide other giveaways for it?
Yes, once you've marked it as received. It will say "previously won" if you manually try and look for a giveaway for the same game.
The comment you made about multiple wins doesn't really apply.
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Winning a game does not hide it, it merely kicks you out of all giveaways for that game. It is the adding of a game to your Steam library which hides it from you.
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Yeah that's what I figured, as I'd never seen an announcement about a change in that. But hey, I could've overlooked it or so. :)
And yeah, might have worded that a bit badly with the 'option to enter'.
Edit: but you can also still enter them right? Or does it tell you 'previously won'? I'm more confused now than before actually reading heyday's and Mayanaise's comment and you not explicitly debunking it. :P
As far as I know it just removes your entries for giveaways of the same game as a single action and doesn't really do anything beyond that, as being able to enter and see (by default?) is based on whether you own it (as of last sync) and nothing else.
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Or does it tell you 'previously won'?
To the best of my memory, this is what now happens. I do not trust my memory, however.
As for giveaways being hidden, there are two cases where the giveaways for a game are hidden from view.
- You manually choose to have it hidden from you.
- You choose to have the games you own hidden from you via your settings.
In order for #2 to affect a particular game, the game must be in your Steam library, it must be removed from your Steam wishlist (or it will show in the "wishlist" tab of giveaways), and you must have your SG account synced with Steam. Usually, Steam removes a game from your wishlist when you purchase it/redeem a key, but it is glitchy and doesn't always work that way.
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Yes that's how it would turn out, the standalone Deponia would be detected as previously won and the Complete Edition recognized as owned, hence both games would be unavailable to enter for giveaways.
Edit: Your new hair looks nice, btw. :D
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Deponia and Deponia: The Complete Journey are two separate games. They should be thought of as two separate games. Each is independent of the other.
- Winning the giveaway for Deponia will kick you out of of all Deponia giveaways. It will not hide them.
- Marking the giveaway as "received" will not hide the game from you because it is not in your library.
- Having a game in your library will hide the game from you (if your settings dictate that).
(Note: There is often a delay in recognition of a game being added to your library. It can take some time before giveaways for an added game are hidden.)
Applying the above, a winner who receives the Complete Journey instead of Deponia will still see giveaways for it, but The Complete Journey will be hidden (depending upon your settings). Marking the game "received" will block entry to further Deponia giveaways (already won), and The Complete Journey will also be blocked from entry (game owned). That is my understanding.
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I only ask, cos, going on what you said, and how the "steam is learning about this game" and "profile features limited" giveaways seem to work, they should show even if you won and redeemed the game to your account - am I wrong about this also, or has something changed in regards to these games?
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you can activate games with different api's on a account even if its the same game. this is why testing keys on a account to see what they are can be bad.
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The creator of the giveaway and his or her winner may delay processing the ended giveaway for as long as they are in agreement. They may also agree to delete the giveaway. As long as neither of them demands action, none is required to be taken. One example of this is when the giveaway is for a game that has been pre-ordered. Such giveaways may remain in "limbo" until the game is finally released and may be delivered.
TBH I think this rule could use some rethinking, as what used to be a courtesy on the part of the winner, has turned into an unwritten rule, which the winner is supposed to abide by, as more and more users seemingly go around looking to bend rules in order to farm every last bit of CV, also becoming quite unpleasant when they don't receive the positive answer they have come expect.
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There are no such things as unwritten rules. You have all the rights to refuse to agree deletion of a giveaway, people saying "by entering you agree" mean literally nothing, as support does not accept it.
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Exactly. Either you are sure, provide working copy from alternative source or take the hit of not received. Which no one even checks...
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I see a decent amount of "By entering this giveaway you agree to delete it if the key doesn't work." I want to often comment and say that's not how this works.
Some SG members think they have to do this, like it's part of the SG rules and they have no other option.
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that's how it works, but most people keep agreeing with their rules so ga creators get away with their poor excuses. 🤦♀️
it's the perfect example of coercing users to agree with them: "let me delete it, or else"
have a key that might not work?
don't be such a low-life greedy peasant farming cv, and drop it in a thread or give it to someone in your friend list.
a giveaway ended and the key doesn't work?
go buy a new one, and according to the ToS, provide a working one.
if that doesn't work, take a not-received like a grown-up responsible user, and live with it. 🤷
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if that doesn't work, take a not-received like a grown-up responsible user, and live with it.
You seem to have put your finger on the problem.
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(this is about "keys" i think/am quite sure are good)
i had a bunch of giveaways gone bad. also, always been very ready to take my "not received" (not because i'm responsible, just cause i think it's part of the "whole steamgifts game"). but i've bought a second -good- key maybe once, or two. also, never provided a further "game/key" as a "sorry!".
i think, still, like i'm doing it the right way. but, whenever i read "poor excuses" i feel that's kind of unfair. or, better said, we (creators of ga's gone bad) are not acting all the same way.
(you -you= not Mully, but in general- can also quickly spot all the different ways of "giving away" of one steamgifts member)
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had a bunch of giveaways gone bad.
That differs from what Mully is saying. Mully is saying if you feel the need to add a safety clause to your giveaways, perhaps you should consider not making giveaways with those keys simply for the sake of adding more to your sent column and CV level. Everyone has bad key now and again, but if you're intentionally making giveaways with keys you're more unsure about than sure, perhaps reconsider.
It's my understanding she's also commenting on how people phrase that clause, as if they're trying to make it sound like a "rule" when it clearly isn't, in order to coerce other users into a deletion rather than take a Not Received.
My personal perspective? Don't make giveaways for keys I'm unsure about (or at the very least more unsure than I am sure), leave the clauses out altogether, and deal with the occasional bad key as it arises --- then try to replace the key, and if that's not possible, ask them politely to allow a deletion, leaving the decision in their hands. (I've had a few keys that were bad over the years, and even without any sort of safety clause, every single winner -- without exception -- has allowed the deletion when asked in a decent manner).
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if you're intentionally
ok, got that. still, if you're doing it intentionally, well, imo you should check a good psychiatrist or smth.
how people phrase
and we're back at that. there's no fixed "rule" on how to write that (i used to copy and paste one line used by a Mod) as there's no fixed "role" you can "play" using steamgifts. (and you've been lucky, bro. i had once a Not Received by an user that called me "Sir or Madam"...). and i think this depends on the amount of "freedom" Khalaq wrote before.
one year or so ago, keys seemed to be "sure". not anymore: the long tail of GoGo-disaster and this new trend of devs revoking keys for any guessable (and unguessable) reason makes all this even more difficult to handle. like, if that safety cause was unnecessary before, in the future might be a good way to let peeps entering a giveaway that, yes, there could be a problem. (speaking in general, i don't use that clause anymore. lately i'm using something like "i hate dumb-tickets" :P)
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Since what I wanted to reply to you is about the same as I replied to Linus, I'll just paste the link.
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I "safety" all of my giveaways, because keys are all questionable at this point. Devs revoke keys without any reason and Steam allows it; sites like Humble refuse support if they decide you are a trader, even if you are not, even when keys may have been compromised because of their own bad site security. Both of these are, incidentally, illegal under U.S. law, but until someone gets irritated enough to litigate, customers will keep losing. In any case, I put the comment in partly because I want people be aware of the evanescent nature of keys in 2019. It's a sad state of affairs, but real.
That said I've only had a handful of giveaways actually go bad (I'm a little over 1100 giveaways in, at this point). I buy a new key if keys are cheap. But frankly, TOS or not, I'm not going out to spend $15 or whatever just because I was trying to be nice and give something to someone who wanted it, and an incompetent or scamming developer decided he should have made more money or was just in a bad mood one day. None of my winners has objected to deletion, so far.
I also generally give a disappointed winner something off their wishlist, outside of Steamgifts. Which just seems a nice thing to do.
I've got one Not Received GA in my history, and the winner offered to delete that one. But I'm really irritated at the asshat dev and I want my damn key, which he revoked from a Groupees bundle for no reason, and I'm still chasing after it. I guess it's too late to change the Not Received mark at this point, but I want to get that key if it takes me a decade.
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None of my winners has objected to deletion, so far.
Nor have any of mine, and I do it without a clause. That's my entire point (in pointing out "my perspective"). You don't need the clause suggesting deletion and can ask nicely after the fact, should a deletion become necessary (though it's never really necessary).
As Mully stated, too many people are simply wanting to "use up" old keys to add to their sent/CV, and using the deletion clause as a "safe way" to do so, by suggesting deletion before the giveaway is even over, and some going so far as to phrase their clause to sound like a rule when it is not.
Personally speaking (and I'll say it every time), I'd like to see these safety clauses go away, because they're "leading" winners toward one of two options and completely failing to mention the second option because giveaway creators all too often do not want a Not Received.
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they're "leading" winners toward one of two options and completely failing to mention the second
<3
edit: never ever thought about that, Tz. also so fff true.
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You know better than anyone, too (because we've discussed the topic at great length), that I'm sitting on over 300 keys (perhaps more now) that I refuse to make giveaways with -- because I don't want the hassle, I don't want my winners to be hassled, and I don't want to be hassling support over deleting that many giveaways. Even before I was level 10, those "sent" and CV numbers didn't mean enough for me to put people through all that.
The point of my comment -- this isn't like I'm just standing outside the room deciding what I feel is right for those inside the room.
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lol
so, you're a tenner now??
(never thought about you standing outside but, yes, you might have given that impression to other peeps. not that worries you, i know i know, but still :P)
was thinking about those untrustable keys. and that's not only a problem of mine, or yours.
about steamgifts and those that (knowing nothing about SG) might read these threads thinking "these people are 100% nuts!".
about the fact we (yay!) don't need CV anymore...
the only idea i had these months is to ask help from a coder, someone capable to write something like chrono.gg did (can't remember its name...), like a "pool" where SG users may, say, pick one key per day. so that we can still give away those keys (putting them on the "pool"), without hassling support.
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My solution is to just throw them at my other accounts...
I'm sure I have bunch of key that have not activated, or are not sure that have been given away too. And that's why I don't go through trouble of making anything for anything I don't know to be "new"...
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Well, a few users made whitelist only giveaways with the clause that if you join the whitelist and the key didn't work, you'd agree to deletion. In the case of those people, they were older bundles and I'm pretty sure the giveaways worked out fine. People are just scared now that keys will get revoked that they've had for a while. It's highly unlikely with Humble/Fanatical, but they're just being cautious I suppose. I've seen Humble keys given from 2017 on here and they were fine. I wouldn't fault those users for the whitelist recruitment method, especially if the games are high tier.
I might have a problem with people doing that with cheapo games from Otaku/GoGo that had a high chance of being used/revoked. In that case, they should be pretty sure that the games haven't been involved in a mass revoke. The onus is on them to do the research and not make a bunch of giveaways that they are really unsure about. If I was them, I'd just give those dodgy keys away in the description of one of my whitelist giveaways rather than throwing them to the bots and ungrateful ninjas.
If someone asked me if they could delete a giveaway, I'd say yes. Afterall, they are giving me a free gift, and sometimes things can go wrong. :)
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It's one thing to politely ask for a deletion after the fact, but another entirely to expect one before the giveaway even ends.
To my knowledge, no one on Steamgifts has ever been banned for "genuinely good intentions." Mistakes happen, and a Not Received isn't the end of the world. There's no need for the clause. People are abusing it now to assure themselves of either CV or a deletion (aka avoiding a Not Received).
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I do not understand why so many wants to force winner approval for deletion.
After all result is nearly the same - creator lose giveaway slot in both not delivered and deleted giveaway situation. And support can see both deleted and not delivered giveaways. So only thing that changes is that profile from "outside" looks cleaner.
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So only thing that changes is that profile from "outside" looks cleaner.
Appearances are everything on SG.
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... as more and more users seemingly go around looking to bend rules...
There will always be people who seek to deceive, cheat, steal, and otherwise behave badly. At the same time, there are also honest, forthright, responsible people who do not. We will never eliminate the abuse of the former without also eradicating the freedom of the latter, so we do the best we can to minimize the bad while maximizing freedom. In the process of seeking a balance, it is important to remember that wrong actions do not become progressively "less wrong" as the number of people committing them increases. This, despite however many people accept wrongdoing as "the new normal."
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We will never eliminate the abuse of the former without also eradicating the freedom of the latter, so we do the best we can to minimize the bad while maximizing freedom
awesomely said.
what you wrote, imo, is even bigger than Mully's finger... like, that's THE finger :D
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You're basically praising him for saying 'we can only throw away the baby with the water, so we'll have to put up with tons of dirty water', which is patently false.
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you might want to re-read what he patently false said.
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There will always be people who seek to deceive, cheat, steal, and otherwise behave badly
That's why it's necessary to take a firm stance: I didn't see cg putting up with bots just because 'botters are going to bot'.
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If it is worth taking a stand at all, it should be a firm one. That is a given. Where wisdom is needed is in determining what "taking a stand" should mean. That is the meaning which underlies the second half of the sentence you quoted.
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I think this one needs a bump, as it is still relevant.
I stumbled recently on user that activated Dead Island Riptide instead of Dead Island: Riptide Definitive Edition (for which giveaway was for) and tried to argue it does not matter that title and appID are different, as for them those games are similar enough to be considered the same (my paraphrase, not actual citation).
So easiest way to avoid suspension for inactivated win:
- activate game on account
- click on newly added game in library and go to it's store page
- in other tab open giveaway you won
- click on Steam icon next to the giveaway name
- compare both Steam store pages (the one redirected from your library and from giveaway you won)
If both redirect to the same page you can safely mark game as received. If you won package of games you must check if all games were added to your account.
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Ran into this problem with Pumped BMX + and Pumped BMX Pro.
In fact, Fanatical themselves has made this mistake, as I made a giveaway of four Pumped BMX + games I got from them, but two of the keys redeemed to Pumped BMX Pro.
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That's the reason why it's winner's responsibility to check if they activated right game, and mark giveaway as received / not received accordingly. As you can get incorrect key from retailer or simply mix up your keys. And it's not possible to check for which game key is, unless you try to activate it.
If it was retailer mistake - contact them and explain the situation. If you made error on your own - you will also need to correct it on your own.
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Recently, there has been a glut of Deponia giveaways using keys for Deponia: The Complete Journey (See this thread.) This is a mistake. While the content of the first game is included in the Complete Journey, the two are considered different games and are recognized by Steam as such. This is not the first time there has been confusion between similar titles, nor will it be the last.
This is a reminder. Do not mark a game as "Received" unless it is the game you were promised in the giveaway. If you should mark a giveaway win as "Received" while Steam fails to acknowledge you own it, your SG account will show the win as unredeemed and you will be subject to penalty. Always double-check with the Steam API that the gifts you receive match or include what you were promised. A simple way to check is to simply click on the game's icon in the giveaway. It should send you directly to that game's storepage on Steam where you can check your ownership of it. If you get the regular storefront, instead, then something is probably amiss. Another tool you can use for checking activations is SGT's activation checker, here.
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