When is it okay to pirate game? (giveaway inside)
Steam explicitly states that refunds are not to be used to try out games.
Comment has been collapsed.
A few examples
If you've paid for it once and it is for whatever reason , no longer playable in it's current format
if the product will not be sold/ is not being sold in your country
the game is no longer being produced for whatever reason
but really do whatever, i'm not the police
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeh I bought duke nukem 3d 3 times. Once on cd and twice on steam. And now there is a new version AGAIN.
I really don't want to buy it a 4th time.
Comment has been collapsed.
when you have the game on CD but your CD drive broke and you can't play it anymore. some people would add that it also has to unobtainable via digital distribution like steam or gog but IMHO if you already paid for the game on CD why pay again for digital copy?
Comment has been collapsed.
the obtaining 2x comment is a pretty good point, not only you already helped the devs, but you would be jeopardizing yourself. even though screwing the CD drive isn't dev's fault
Comment has been collapsed.
it's CD drive manufacturer's fault. they should buy me digital copies of all the games that I can't play because their product failed! :P
but honestly, nowadays less and less people put optical drives in their PCs and not all the games are available on Steam or GOG...
Comment has been collapsed.
When it is a very old game, and it is not on Steam :P
(In my case, SNES games)
Comment has been collapsed.
it's always ok to pirate games.
Comment has been collapsed.
When a developer/publisher stops selling the game (AKA abandonware). A good example is Battlefield 1942. It was free on Origin until it suddenly completely vanished from existence. It was patched/re-uploaded and unofficial servers were hosted. Now it's downloadable from unofficial sources, but hardly pirating - remember, it was free before. :P
[Edit] Also that entirely depends on what is your definition of "okay". I stated Battlefield 1942 (and general abandonware) due to the nature of the question - "when is it okay to pirate"... but technically, it's never "okay" to pirate, in a legal point of view.
Comment has been collapsed.
Abandonware is an interesting case. I like old, classic games, and a bunch of them just aren't available physically or digitally anymore. "Piracy" in this case lets people play games they otherwise could not.
Comment has been collapsed.
Indeed. If a game is not available anymore, I think it becomes "okay" to pirate it. After all, you were not able to give the devs money for it anymore, even if you wanted to (well, you could if you really wanted, but not by officially buying the game).
Comment has been collapsed.
Exactly that. On the other side, I have over 2.5k games in my library, so if I can't buy something it is not a big loss, even when forbidden game is overhyped. So I accept that point of view, but I don't feel the need to use it.
Comment has been collapsed.
- when a company stops selling that game
- to demo the game
- when you don't have money to buy the game (but don't have either money to spend on other games)
Comment has been collapsed.
Did not really want to start any discussions here but your third option caught my eye. Do you really think it is okay to pirate game just because you cannot afford it? Wouldn't it be better to find something else to do (like playing a free2play game if you want to stick with gaming) until you can buy the game you want?
Comment has been collapsed.
i've to nuance then :p
No, pirating games IS NOT GOOD in absolute.
But if you've really no money at all and no way at all to earn money, then i would say it's excusable... Even if it's still not good.
In theory you're right but consumption society is very tempting and then i think we can't blame people who have absolutely 0 money for leisure to be tempted. But it's just an opinion. In a different model of society where people are not tempted to buy things, i would say you're right yes.
Comment has been collapsed.
I get your point, from my point of view it is immoral to pirate games, from someone else's point of view the prices of some games are immoral, from legal point of view, pirating as a whole is illegal. I don't really want to preach but I like to discuss these topics if only to get the other party's perspective.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, it's immoral to pirate games, let's say it ! That's right.
We can't compare games to apples because it's not vital. But just to compare absolute/relative :
It's immoral to steal an apple. But when a person is starving, we find him more excuses to steal an apple... Even if it's still immoral.
And if the person steal an apple for his starving children, even more people would excuse him.
Here for pirating games, it's not vital but i think that a person who has almost no games is partially excused to pirate in a consumption society.
But for example, someone like me with +1000 games has no excuse because i've many games to play.
In a full religious society when steal is absolutely forbidden and there is no temptation, then there is no excuse to steal.
Hello to the persons who blacklist ! o/
Comment has been collapsed.
Hmmm. That's an interesting point of view. I kind of agree that if you have no way to buy food or get it in any way, it may be excusable to steal some (however I still consider it very wrong). But when it comes to luxury goods (which games are), I really don't think there is any situation in which it is excusable to steal / pirate.
If something is necessary (like food and water (and shelter probably)), I can kind of see the point. But if it isn't necessary to live, I would always consider it unexcusable (I've pirated games before and I'm now very ashamed of that).
Comment has been collapsed.
i understand your point of view of course. As i explained elsewhere in this thread, i pirated a lot some years ago when i'd really no money and since have re-bought all i'd pirated. I'm not proud of this time either but a little indulgence to the poor people doesn't hurt !
Comment has been collapsed.
Let's not forget that by pirating software, you are only stealing in the strict sense of the law.
You are not taking something that is now gone. It is still there, because you stole an exact copy of the product. You are not taking from a limited supply.
So while I can certainly understand and agree with both sides here, pirating when a person has no money deals absolutely zero damage to the developer's profits. One cannot call it a lost sale if the sale would never have taken place under any circumstances surrounding the person without money.
I'd say it's wrong to pirate a game if you have the means AND desire to buy it if pirating didn't "exist".
Comment has been collapsed.
But if you've really no money at all and no way at all to earn money
Honestly, if that's the case, you have other things to worry about than gaming. Why do you even have a pc that can run games at that point?
If you have no money at all, you should be looking for some way to earn money. It may not be fair and it may be harsh, but that's how the world works really.
NOTE: I don't mean this as an attack on people without money. I'm talking here about people that have NO MONEY AT ALL and no way to earn it. In that case I'd say it's better to sell your pc to get some food instead.
Comment has been collapsed.
You're generally right, but some people receive old computer as a gift from their family for example (the computer that the family use no more, he doesn't like much videogames but it's my older brother situation), some bought or received a very cheap basic laptop for their studies.
With a basic computer, you can still run games like sim city or counter strike source. It's still piracy but it's a practical example.
The reality life is not equal to everbody really. If some poor people who bought / received a basic computer want to have some fun playing games, i don't see what wrong they commit. As another one said, the games they play is not a missed sale, they couldn't have afforded it. They will buy the games they pirated later if they have money.
Comment has been collapsed.
In many cases, I'd pirate a game because I couldn't afford buying them, and then later bought them even if I'd never play them again because I could afford that after some time.
Comment has been collapsed.
So in 95 years from publication (or 120 years from creation, whichever is shorter), at which point the software will be archaic and probably won't even run on whatever systems people use then?
Copyright hasn't really adapted for the digital era.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm lucky... In my country it is 50 years from publication or creation, whichever is longer (which is still a very long time in computer terms).
Comment has been collapsed.
I bet there would still be a group of gamer who play ancient games, or at least i would be surprised if there wasn't, i mean if you compare it to movies, there are still plenty of people that watch movies that are over a hundred years old, i don't really see why it would be different with video games.
Comment has been collapsed.
Amidst other reasons, I'd say one of the main cases where I'm all for piracy is for older games that you purchased on CD and either the CD does not work anymore (it happens) or it usually requires you to keep the CD in the drive for the duration of playing. I find those well-warranted cases to pirate a game.
Comment has been collapsed.
For big AAA sequels sold for a price so undecent it's almost begging to be pirated. Also because these sequels do not usually improve much, are just more of the same, and the companies making them are already making tons of money.
On the other hand, i'd sometimes buy indie games i'd never touch just because I really like the way the game is created and would like to see more of the same genre or of the same devs.
Comment has been collapsed.
it seems indie games are way better than AAA games these days
Comment has been collapsed.
Also because these sequels do not usually improve much, are just more of the same
Then why even bother playing them in the first place? I really don't understand these kind of arguments. Sure I can understand that something is too expensive, but then just say that and don't come up with crap that makes you sound like you don't want to play it anyway...
Comment has been collapsed.
I'd say every game which is not available anymore - digitally. It's 2017 and not 1999 so customers may expect companies to sell their games on the internet. Thus I support anyone pirating games which aren't available on either Steam, Origin or GOG anymore. Also, computers without optical drives are on the way up.
Comment has been collapsed.
NEVER!!!
Even if the dev stops selling the game you can buy the game from other sources.
Comment has been collapsed.
Indeed, for just $500 I'll hook you up with just about any game you desire ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
You see, I cannot agree with your point of view. Spending hundreds of dollars for a game such as Mafia 1 which was purchased for a tiny fraction of that is not only wrong, but plainly stupid. I understand that some people 'get off' depending on their library on Steam, but when there are people that save up months on end to buy a game such as GTA V and then you have some dude spending 200 CSGO keys to obtain a copy of a removed game it literally hurts my brain. Just because you can obtain a copy, it doesn't mean you will be obtaining it for a reasonable and decent price. ALSO, if the developers are not getting the money for that game, why would I pay some third party? So that they can make a lot of profit? Lol.
Comment has been collapsed.
It is stupid to pay 500 bucks for a game. I agree.
But if you want that game, you either pay for it or move on to another.
I would never pay, 1st because I agree it's not fair and 2nd because I can't afford.
But even in that situation, piracy is not justified in my opinion.
If I can't buy a game for whatever reason, I either play a game I already own or buy another.
Comment has been collapsed.
It is justified if it is a game that you really want to play and that cannot be purchased from a legitimate source. As long as the developer no longer sells the game and the only copies left lying around are sold by third party, I feel more than entitled to pirate a game. I am not causing any sort of damage, I am not stealing anything and I am not even liable for the category 'a lost sale' because the game is no longer being sold.
Comment has been collapsed.
"you can buy the game from other sources"
Nope. Some publishers make their games 100% region restricted from some countries. Literally, every game publisher can offer he refuses to sell in particular countries without any public reason. So there is no other way other than pirating. From time to time some publishers make their games available... few years after those game died off, which is crucial for online/co-op games.
Comment has been collapsed.
The reason for me is simple. If the developers deserve to be paid, yes of course I will buy it. Most of the time, the game is incomplete or has a ton of DLC's that should already be in the game, they are apart as an additional content that must be paid to enjoy the game to the fullest, like what SF did with it's roster. You had to pay to unlock the full roster but you also paid for an incomplete game as if it were a full version.... when it obviously wasn't.
What I do is first download it and then when the Goty or Complete edition is available, I might consider buying it, like I did with Darksiders.
Comment has been collapsed.
Wouldn't it be better to just not play these games instead?
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't, just gave an example. But I usually pirate a game when I'm not certain it is complete, or if it deserves to be paid since it is too expensive for what it offers. Some examples of games I did this are Mortal Kombat XL (Didn't buy it in the end) and Batman Arkham Knight (Waiting for when I get time to play it and has a good discount). Well, also VN's like Grisaia Series has a lot of material being cut because you can't show sex scenes but it's okay showing a massacre, because fu** logic.
Comment has been collapsed.
Adding the sex scene patches to VNs is considered pirating???
Comment has been collapsed.
Not in my opinion, if the patch is provided by the dev/publisher. Like some VN's on Steam.
If it's not a official patch, why risk it? In that case, I do consider it a form of piracy.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not adding the patch, I'm directly not buying the game at all since they make you buy the patch from the developer as if it is an additional content when it is part of the original game. Also, you need the patch if you want to unlock all the achievements, or so it appears to be as far as I have read about.
Comment has been collapsed.
From what I understand, even using translation patches from fan groups and the like is illegal. It's one of the few things I ignore, since I pay for legal Japanese copies and thus feel justified in having a patch so I can read the darn thing.
Comment has been collapsed.
i stopped pirating games over a dozen years ago, i simply hadn't the time or the machine to play any cutting edge stuff anymore so why bother pirating. the few games i did play were free or bought on sale / bundles. i been now buying back on gog and steam the games i used to play pirated copies of. i don't pirate games anymore, if they feel too expensive i just don't buy them until the hype is over and i catch them on a bundle or sale. just want to get my moneys worth out of playing them and try a few random new things now and again.
if your excuse for pirating is only to demo how it plays there are plenty of youtube videos and twitch channels on the gameplay anyways, it just doesn't make much sense to bother pirating stuff anymore.
Comment has been collapsed.
i stoped pirating games about 5 years ago when i restarted to use steam, and since re-bought all the games i'd pirated.
But i still feel demo is really missing for many games. Somes games are fun to play and super boring to watch. Some boring to watch and very fun to play. Some it's hard to understand what is the gameplay about when you're a noob, for example paradox/slitherine games. Etc. i probably forget a lot of cases when demo would be super necessary.
Comment has been collapsed.
Exactly my point of view. If a game is available but you don't think it's worth the money, don't play it. If it's not worth the money, it must mean you don't really enjoy / want the game anyway.
Comment has been collapsed.
to demo it or when it's too expensive to buy
while a lot of games are worth what they are selling for, a lot of time it ain't that true
Comment has been collapsed.
Not quite the same. If the dealership does not allow you to take the car for a test spin you make an exact duplicate of it that does not cost the dealership anything, then you drive around in it a bit to test it before deciding if you want to go back to the dealership and buy it, in the demo example at least. That would be a closer analogy. In the other case, remove the you going back to buy the car (and in the long run if people don't buy cars, that would be bad for the industry).
The whole "You would not steal a car" example is, in my opinion a terrible one, as it's such a different scenario.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm surprised you went with the "you wouldn't steal a car" false analogy
Comment has been collapsed.
If you're not already able to see the difference between stealing a physical object and playing a game without paying for it I'm most likely not going to be able to change your mind. I just found it surprising because of other things you've posted.
Comment has been collapsed.
Stealing a car is indeed theft while pirating a game is copyright infringement ;)
Edit: Spiff has a hard enough time to be able to find time to play the game he pays for to be able to even consider copyright infringement in the first place :P
Comment has been collapsed.
If that's your argument, then why not replace "car" with handbag? Or jacket? No, you use "car" because it makes it sound like someone is stealing something massive. Like it's somehow on par with stealing a bloody car. Hyperbole arguments ftw.
Here's why the car analogy is dumb:
- You are not stealing something that expensive.
- You are not stealing from a limited supply.
- Cars are a lot harder to reproduce compared to a digital product. In fact, in modern piracy there are no production costs associated AT ALL because the package and the DVD itself are no longer a part of the equation.
Piracy is creating a copy and the company is left with the exact same amount of inventory.
If a car could be downloaded and printed from a futuristic 3D printer I'm sure some people would steal them. You could "steal" my car if you want to, and I wouldn't care if it were still in my driveway afterwards. Copyright infringement != theft. It's not legal, but there is a distinction.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's true but there are a lot of reasons for why the analogy itself doesn't work. I'm not disagreeing with you on the flat statement that it is illegal. That's just a fact.
Theft, debatable, but the law treats it as the same so fine. No reason to argue there.
Comment has been collapsed.
in india we never had official release of fallout 3, new vegas, dragon age inquisition etc. mainly games with lgbt content so i have no other option, also nintendo never have released any console in india officially.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm fine with someone pirating a game when they would not realistically be able to buy it anyway. So a teenager who gets a low allowance I'm fine with, someone pirating an old DOS game that's not sold anywhere, and where getting a physical release is not easy, that I'm also fine with. But someone with a good job who pirates games that are readily available I'm not fine with. Also, the argument of "this game is not good enough to pay for anyway" is just dishonest. If it's not good enough to pay for, it's not good enough to play.
Comment has been collapsed.
Indeed. Anybody with a decent job should be able to buy the games they really want. There's literally no reason to pirate it in that case.
Comment has been collapsed.
When I was kid I pirated everything.
When your country has no control over it, you dont really know if anyone doesnt tell you that its actually stealing.
As I love achievements and to see something on my profile with gaming time, I dont pirate.. It happens.. But usually just to try something out.
Havent actually done that either lately.
But I have to say. Minimum wage in our country is some 360 euros. And usually most jobs get this pay. As a student I get 100 eur a month (if Im in the top of my class)
And you expect me to buy games for 60 bucks ? Thats insane. I undersand US and countries that have good economy. But when the game costs the same in a country where it`s 1/4 from a monthly pay. Thats not normal
And I think in these situations, I cant really blame those who pirate. I try to get games I like in bundles, or when I love something really really much Ill try to buy it at the lowest price I can find.
Its still stealing, so I dont advocate it. but you get the idea. There should be another option - when its just too damn expensive. "when you dont have money" just means that at some point you could have money for it. Of course - you could simply not play the game that you cant afford. Its the same with everything else you cant afford. But when your country simply doesnt have no control over piracy and you dont even need to use VPN, its bound to happen, even if you have money.
PS. I love age of empires 3. But the game has no achievements - that, for me, takes away half of the fun away. And it costs 10 bucks. Thats nothing, but why should I buy it ? I wont pirate it. But I see no reason in buying it. If I really wanted to play the game, Id just pirate it.
Also - Sims 3. or any part while at that. Dozen of DLC`s each costing 20 - 60 bucks. If you want to enjoy the game fully, youre out of a fortune. I can buy a damn car to have fun with for that kind of money it takes me to buy sims and its expension packs. No damn way Im buying something that expensive.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't pirate games because I don't trust running unverified code on my machine. Safe Hex and all that.
But yeah if you want to support the developer and have them continue making games then buy it. If not, pirate or don't play it, whatever.
Comment has been collapsed.
Game is no longer made and only available secondhand (NES, SNES, etc)
Game is no longer available for whatever reason (many Codemasters games such as Fuel which I really enjoyed)
Game is not available in your country at all, censorship is never a good thing.
Game purchase simply will not support original devs (Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning)
Game has DRM which can only be bypassed by pirating (SecuROM, Denuvo, Games For Windows Live, etc.)
Game is "Always Online" for a rerelease which has always been Single Player (Final Fantasy VII, SimCity, etc.)
No Demo available, remember when gaming was small and internet speeds were crap, and storage was expensive? Demos galore.
When the Publisher and / or Dev pull some really stupid bullshit. Mass Effect 1, 2, & 4 are on Steam but not 3.
When you simply cannot afford the game (I pirated lots of stuff when I was unemployed, but purchased a copy when I did get work)
Comment has been collapsed.
I've never found a valid reason to pirate a game.
If I can't play a game without pirating it, I'll play something else.
There are enough decent free games out there these days.
Having said that, couldn't really give a shit what someone else does regarding the subject.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree with you there is always another game to play , but if you want to experience really old classics and cant find them ..i mean really old i am not against emulating. I did found myself emulating some old onsoles like game gear gameboy etc i used to own with some games ..it always last a few days tho nostalgia hits me hard at first but i do get bored of them easily
Comment has been collapsed.
seeing people willing to buy SAW, Blur and other removed games for a lot of money makes me sick, so I genuinely want to know what you think
giveaway Slime-san: https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/LmnC8/slime-san
P.S YESS!! means ALWAYS, I messed that up
Comment has been collapsed.