redump.org, there are many preservation programs behind the "illegal" scenes, and we can go to libraries, read and borrow a book and it's okay, yet when we retrieve it digitally it's deemed piracy and bad. Nintendo and Sega and whatever can put up all they want, if people want it, they can get it and find a way. Finding old pc games proves a bit more difficult with so many more releases, but even certain games like simon the sorcerer 4 and 5 just barely 15 years old are already hard to find unlike other games from the dos era.
As to gog's claims about their preservation program (they just made but i thought was already their thing when they came up with the site) it became bogus, but it was already like that when they stopped releasing good old games.
Granted you have to dive deep, not everything is available for everyone, but i still fear more a time about compability and how to maintain being able to still play everything in the future. If bloody microsoft just let gog/steam use the win3x or even a win95 wrapper possibility open like dosbox.
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Just to nuance your comparison ("libraries are like illegal downloads") a bit:
I'm someone who lives off royalties (they're not huge, as they only allow me, added to my ongoing work, to float just above -but barely- the poverty threshold of my country), and if you borrow a book I've worked on at the library, I'll get a bit of money. If you download it illegally, I'll get nothing.
Just putting that here in case you were not aware of that reality (and maybe it doesn't work the same in your country, who knows?).
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Perhaps it's not really quite the same.
In your case the difference is for now atleast yours is assumingly still available to buy, and there are options. How many games do people not want but don't exist anymore or for hundreds of $ or euro on ebay and downloading them might be the only way?
Or when you stop officially selling your books wouldn't you want people to still enjoy them? Suppose Public Domain didn't exist, and that's still a very long time, a bit too long imo.
I am not sure how it works here, and it's been 35 years ago since i been to a library, i do know we even have a music/cd library through a website (you get an actualy cd send, you borrow it and then send it back which in theory you can copy).
And yes, here writers here get very little paid as most go to publishers and all sorts of other people, writers literally get like a few cents per book.
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I like GOG, but let's be honest here, they are also doing it for marketing. After all, when it was popular to have newer games, they renounced "good old games" title and tried to distance themselves from the "place for old games" fame. Now that preservation is IN, they are promoting same games that they started with as a special line... and that's all allowed ofc, good luck to them... but Blizzard also has the right to decide where their games will be sold and for how long. I'm not angry at anyone here. People who wanted Wc1 and 2 already got them on GOG, and if you wanted them and didn't get them yet, you still have a chance to do it before they are removed.
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Im kinda on the same boat, but i do think Blizzard is at fault, and i support GOGs previous attempts for bigger reach.
GOG never stopped being the one great place for older games, didnt hide then, didnt stop patching or selling then... I dont see saying gog over good-old-games makes any difference, and newcomers would still see right at the frontpage old games also featured in deals and such. There was no hiding of them, all fine... Steam is so freaking huge near monopoly - i love Steam, but it is. Their market share is like unheard of elsewhere - that any alternatives have to try different things to get any chances.
If i were in charge of GOG i wouldve done the same. Id probably try to fly something like 'the place for ALL games' or something like that, and upon entering the site some other banning also adding 'new and old'.
I would go even further, also puttiong emphasis on "non invasive drm" - just a light rephrasing calling attention to bad drm, instead of the tamer and less appealing 'drm-free'... After all it needs the customer to be aware of what drm is, what means being free of it, and its a (forgot the proper term) 'void' quality- as in its not a feature or anything, its how games were and should supposedly be, just the abscence of something else that is tacked on...
...blah blah not appealing.
Similarly if your only motto is good OLD games that is a losing hand from the get go- theres a sizeable public for retro games but its a drop in a pond by comparison. Any motto like that goes contrary, self defeating even, in listing anything newer
I want GoG to grow, they should use every opportunity like this the way they just did. No matter how much i love Steam i want competition, i bought some games on Epic when it launched - maybe i wouldve continued to do so if they improved, wich didnt happen- same with GoG... And i dont think its any coincidence that when Epic came out steam started steam beta with new updates, and then gamepass came making ripples- and lo and behold steam suddenly got very prolific with updates... thats the good old benefits of competition we see less and less in this day and age of near monopilies and tech giants.
And i dont think what Blizzard did was ok at all. Its their LEGAL RIGHT to decide who sells their products, but legality doesnt equal morality, right or wrong. Laws all over the world are full of gaps and even injustices. Once it was legal to own a slave, beat your wife, marry minors (wich apparently still happen still in a 'legal' way)- the law never equated with right-wrong as a whole, it always protected wrong things and still do. Heck thats why the rich all over the world rarely go to jail, theres always enought laws that can bend legally their way in ways that never serve the common people
Being digital games may be less obvious, but what Blizzard did would be the equivalent of going to all stores selling warcraft boxes, pulling then from shelves and storage, and then burying fine working games on a landfill somewhere.
Id also wouldnt generalize 'everyone who wanted already...' - thats is a flawed statement. Im older now but when i was young i was just discovering bands, films and games that were way older then me- fresh to me- and therefore i wouldnt 'already own' any of them. Theres new people being made every day, it takes some 8-9 years for them to be playing games like that- heck i think played Warcraft 2 at 10 or something.
Then theres all the people who just had other priorities. I own most of the retro games i loved most on gog or steam, yet i have a whole bunch more still on my wishlists. Whenever i have the chance i get some again, but my wallet is also slipt with newer titles. Just the other day Age of Wonders 2 was on my cart again, and again didnt make the cut.
Heck i dont own warcraft 1 or 2, im not that big of a rts fan anymore but im increasingly more prone to nostalgia. Any GoG sale the both could as well end up on my cart just to revive some nostalgia, maybe finally beat it and so on...
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If a dev/publisher wants to sell their own games that's their prerogative, likewise if they want to release a remaster and de-list the original versions. It's just not a very good move from the PR perspective, and will piss people off who still want the original versions. Especially since there have been many remasters/upscales/modernizations of games that have turned out objectively worse than the originals.
Devs and publishers are going to do what they want with their IP, and so will people who still want to access those older games. I don't see there ever being a time when anything digital is completely inaccessible for people who don't mind looking for them.
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I've always been a retrogamer. Enough said about that. It doesn't mean I don't like modern games. I mean I value being able to replay games from my younger days, or discover an old gem.
The problem is that publishers don't care about it, most of them just care about money. Not about customer's rights, not about ethics, not about things that aren't money. And old games aren't money. Actually for big publishers it's a tiny enemy. If people can play 100 hours in an old $5 game, why would they buy your 8-hour long last AAA at $59.99? In fact, if for the price of one of our games they can get ten gems, we should we worried, right? Nope. It's a niche market. The big numbers are at new AAAAAA games, and they'll sell unless they're a truly real massive failure. Look, even No Man's Sky ended being a good seller. Thus, old games are a small enemy. Quite small. Unless someone is making them look big. It's still a thorn in the side. Not a huge sword that really hurts the chest of my business, but we have lots of people here and one noticed it so now someone is worried. Someone at the basement taking care of our old library and trying to squeeze the last bucks from it saw something wrong. Then the only way to make fight it is, not sell old games anymore, and for the real classics known even today, make "X: The Remake You Always Were Waiting For, With New Features You Never Wanted And A Price That You'll Never Believe". And it will sell.
So we as digital customers are defensesless about things like "oh how I'd like to play again the original X", or even a simple right like owning forever the license of some digital good that you've paid for (not even paying less because you don't own it, just live with it). Since we changed from physical distribution (floppies, cds, dvds, whatever), we lost. Make any article, statement, video, post your opinion like me. Things will not get better. Only worse. Am I being negative? A lot. But realistically speaking I don't think I'm that far from the reality.
The only thing we can do is participate in, sorry but not grey area, but it always has been illegal preservation efforts. I did not that long ago. I did some stuff myself. Was it illegal? Yes. Was it immoral, unethic? For me not, or I wouldn't have done it. The Links Collection 90%, fuck you M$.
Negative human off.
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The thread's title is the name of a decent video, check it out here.
It's about delisting games and preservation of the medium in an archival realm.
I'm not sure how it all works out but with Nintendo and Sega putting up walls around their older games, it's a question worth asking.
What are your thoughts on preserving games and how accessing them is important to you?
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