BUT, that thread is about "WHY IM PURCHASE DAT SHIET!?". This one, dont.
1: Diablo 3, FAIL OF The YEAR EDITION (Blizzard, /facepalm at you)
2: WarZ, LIES OF The YEAR EDITION (FPS Shooter? with zombies!!)
3: World of Warcraft Pandazzz addon... (World of CasualCraft)
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It's not impossible to have an opinion of a game without having played it though ;)
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Except they deluded themselves that it wasn't a single-player game in anyway.
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People like me stick to single player and occasional online play, but Blizzard has (or had, opinions on more recent installments are varied) its reputation for making games with extreme longevity through Battle.net. While my perception of what a Diablo game should be is probably unpopular, it is a valid one. There are plenty of people who just want single player. So if it's rhetorically stated that Diablo 3 is disappointing, I suppose taking into account everybody's take on the game, that's true. But if you're asking me what the "biggest disappointment" is, Diablo 3 doesn't even cross my mind.
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I'm assuming you never played the previous ones. if you're new to the series, feel free to enjoy it; you're the person the game was catered towards, but that also means you weren't "disappointed" - the people who had waited almost two decades for the game are the ones who get to talk about disappointment.
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I played both previous installments albeit entirely single player. So, for my expectations, it was perfect. However I acknowledge that for multiplayer gamers, whose expectations are probably more important for a game that intends to have any longevity, it was a huge letdown. So in the broad sense it was certainly "a disappointment" but it didn't disappoint me is all I'm saying.
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Even outside the context of singleplayer versus multiplayer, I don't see how anyone can have satisfaction going from D2 to D3 since you can no longer actually, you know, level up your character and pick your skills and stats.
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To each his own, for me it was Nexuix and Guild Wars.
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holy fucking acronym, I had to google it just to figure out what you meant. No i haven't, I'll wait until after xmas to pick it up
although if you are looking for people to play my PSN is zykour for when I get it (also getting the LBP karting game)
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Well saying the name itself takes a while lol.
Next month 2 new guys are coming as DLC in January.(Free as well! :D)
Also I wouldn't get LBPk. It's pretty meh.(A lot of people agree.) Was in the beta, was pretty bad. Modnation racers is a lot better.(No idea if people still play it though.)
Will add ya when I go on PS3.
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I returned it because I couldn't play it online(shitty internet I have...).
Was a blast while I had it, really simple level maker too.
Most people agree Modnation >>> LBPK.
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That's because Sony can't market there way out of a paper bag. lol
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To Hell with that (c wut i did thar?). Diablo 3 was exactly what every other Diablo was. Better than Diablo 2, worse than Diablo 1. I guess I don't understand what you were all expecting from a basic dungeon crawler game where gear farming and trading are the only things to do endgame.
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I seriously hope for the sake of the species that you're being sarcastic.
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It wasn't? I put way way too much time into Diablo 2, and looking back, I see how much better of a game D3 is. D2 was all about gear farming. Diablo 1 was quite simply the best of the series because of how they accomplished what they set out to do with the game. D2 is item item item item.
D3 has some HUGE pro's over D2. First and foremost, ability to respec. It is better simply for that reason. Oh god is it better for that reason (note, we can't compare it to what D2 became YEARS after the fact, we are comparing to months after they both got released). D2 had 0 end game. 0. There weren't even items really for end game. If you actually wanted to complete anything off of normal difficulty, you ran into the perpetual problem of impossible enemies, not having near enough equipment, and somewhere early on, putting 1 stat point in the wrong spot. All skills were meaningless in D2 except the last couple (again, before they added synergy because that was 2 years after). There is actually purpose to running around killing things in D3, where as in D2, it is a race for the boss, because that is where you get equipment from.
I really want to believe the internet community that D3 is some sort of horrendous game, but nobody has a good argument for it. Everyone wants to compare it to D2, but D2 was an awful game when you look back. It took them years of patches to make it what it is today, which is still a grind fest for equipment.
D3 gave you exactly what was promised, and people thought they got hosed because of it. End game was meant to be impossible (I will agree, this is lazy, and my only argument against it).
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In D3 you don't spend skill points. They're all automatically assigned. No brains required, and no hands, either!
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The Binding of Isaac has better RPG elements than D3. At least there's some thought process that goes into what items/abilities you want to select. And apparently the Diablo 3 level system was already so bad that they basically TRIPLED the level cap by adding another 100 "Paragon" levels that increased your stats even further. ONE HUNDRED LEVELS. There used to be SIXTY. You don't playtest a game thoroughly and still need to push a fix like that post-release.
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It wasn't a fix, it was an added endgame that everyone was clamoring for. They said exactly what the endgame was going to be, and nobody complained. It happened, everyone complained. They added and subtracted different elements till they were satisfied with it. It took D2 WAY longer to get a decent endgame.
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Everyone complained because of how the difficulties system was handled. You can read a lot on the subject with some Google searches. The highest difficulty was intended to only be played through by hardcore players, but because of the way the game up until then was set up, even casual players felt like they were expected to play through it.
Now, normally that wouldn't be an issue, but because the game already lacked any competitive elements whatsoever, they just made that higher difficulty more feasible for casual players.
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"Everyone complained because of how the difficulties system was handled. You can read a lot on the subject with some Google searches. The highest difficulty was intended to only be played through by hardcore players, but because of the way the game up until then was set up, even casual players felt like they were expected to play through it.
Now, normally that wouldn't be an issue, but because the game already lacked any competitive elements whatsoever, they just made that higher difficulty more feasible for casual players.
"
I could make the exact same argument for D2. Which is what I am doing.
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Except that Diablo 2 had competitive elements so I don't see how you can make the exact same arguments.
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In D2, you had a bunch of worthless skills until you got to the big ones. Do you guys remember playing this game when it first came out? How many of you played endgame? The answer is none, because it was terribly unplayable.
Post-Synergy, it was the same thing. If you wanted to survive, you had to build very very carefully, unless you had godlike equipment (which again, didn't exist).
Besides this, there is no argument for skill system being better in D2. No respec = no choice. You can not play around and enjoy yourself, you go in blind, and have a very good chance of losing. You have no idea how the skill will scale, and if you chose wrong, you have to re-make your character. You can not respec your skills in D2. It is not an option.
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Like I said, you hate RPGs, that's cool bro. It's fine to admit you hate a genre instead of blaming the genre for being hated by you.
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You're saying Diablo 2 fails as a game because it perfected the RPG genre and set the standard for all RPG games that followed. You're saying Diablo 3 is a successful game because it lacks any significant RPG elements that define the genre. I'm not going to be offended if you like Diablo 3 for those reasons, because you're exactly the kind of person Diablo 3 was meant to be sold to - you're SUPPOSED to like it. But in trying to say Diablo 2, one of the most - if not THE most - successful RPG game ever made is a bad game, you only make yourself look kinda arrogant.
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... What? I think you might be getting horribly off-topic. This has nothing to do with OMG RPGRPGRPGRPGRPG. And D2 did not "perfect" the "RPG". It has its own style of doing it. And if you get into an BESTRPGEVAR OMGOMGOMGOMG argument here, I think Chrono Trigger or FFVI would wind up winning. They tend to do that.
NOW, if we are talking about the top down perspective, run around as a dude and kill all the things game, or in this case, THEPERFECTRPGEVAR, it does not even take that. Baldur's Gate II blows it out of the water, and I think most people would agree it has "more RPG elements" than D2. And even that is not "perfection."
What element are you talking about exactly that either D2 has that D3 does not, or that D3 has that D2 does not?
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I'm not running around saying OMGOMGOMGDIABLO2JIZZJIZZJIZZ. I'll admit poor word choice on my part for when I said it 'perfected the RPG genre', but even you didn't try to counter my "it set the standard" argument.
And Diablo 2 simply has more RPG elements. For starters, and ACTUAL levelup system that ACTUALLY means something. RPGs are meant for you to experiment with builds and replay the game multiple times to find optimal designs. Want names? Off the top of my head - Dark Souls and Borderlands. One is a third-person combat game and one is a first-person shooter. So no, I never tried to classify Diablo 2 by its isometric perspective.
Diablo 3 is a more casual game by many, many magnitudes, and my point is that if that's your thing - if you don't like more competitive games like Diablo 2 - I fully respect that. Just don't try to say Diablo 2 is a failing point for the genre when its sales figures and its legacies shatter that argument completely.
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"For starters, and ACTUAL levelup system that ACTUALLY means something."
As does D3, you get more skills as you go, just like D2. The level up system in D2 was quite lacking, in that the next skill in progression was better than the one before it. Every class endgame used the exact same skill until patch 1.10 came out (2 years after release). How is that giving you choice? Accidentally put a bunch of points into energy? Oops! Sorry, you lose!
"RPGs are meant for you to experiment with builds and replay the game multiple times to find optimal designs."
The problem with D2 in this aspect, is you have to get to endgame before you realize you can't do anything because your build is slightly wrong. I again get the feeling you are talking after patch 1.10. Pre that specific patch, you had very, very little choice in anything. They did some work before that, sure, but it didn't get complete till then, or at least plausible. That patch let you actually try out things, because before it, there was no point to put skills into almost everything.
I will freely admit, that D2 where it stands right now, is an absolutely amazing game. And back then, it absolutely blew my mind. I would easily put D2 not just in the top ten RPGs ever, but in my top 10 favorite games ever. But, I am comparing it to things that came out back then, and nostalgia probably plays a huge part of that. D2 will not stand the test of time, it just doesn't leave that sort of impact on you. Again, look at my two examples in Chrono Trigger and Baldur's Gate. My kids play those games and enjoy the hell out of them, and they definitely prefer those to D2.
Looking back I can see the glaring holes that were fixed without me ever really understanding what were the glaring holes.
"if you don't like more competitive games like Diablo 2"
Competitive? And you still haven't mentioned these elements things, I honestly still do not know what your argument is.
"Just don't try to say Diablo 2 is a failing point for the genre when its sales figures and its legacies shatter that argument completely."
Chrono Trigger, worst RPG ever, have you seen the sales?
Vagrant Story, worst RPG ever, have you seen its lack of legacy? Its lack of RPG elements?
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Yes, I only did get into Diablo 2 after the patch. But I don't think Diablo 3 is going to be patched to have a levelup system that's actually satisfying to use.
And if people really, really hate reaching the endgame and seeing their build is off? Have a respec system like Borderlands did. I would have bought the game if they had done that. Then your character is ACTUALLY somewhat different from the next guy. What's the point in playing with other people when you're all playing as the same character? Alternate solution: A Fable 3 system where you choose your upgrades in whatever order you want, but in the end you still have all the skills the game has to offer.
Competitive elements: Needing to actually build your character in such a way that you stand a chance instead of the game forcing everyone to be equal no matter what.
Chrono Trigger is a different segment of the RPG genre. It's more of an adventure game. Half-Life is an adventure game, not an RPG. You're not playing a role, you're playing a story.
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"Yes, I only did get into Diablo 2 after the patch. But I don't think Diablo 3 is going to be patched to have a levelup system that's actually satisfying to use."
Blizzard is a perfectionist. They will patch this games for many years, just like they have with almost all their modern titles. Who knows what the future will hold!
"And if people really, really hate reaching the endgame and seeing their build is off? Have a respec system like Borderlands did. I would have bought the game if they had done that."
You would have hated D2. Seriously.
"Then your character is ACTUALLY somewhat different from the next guy. What's the point in playing with other people when you're all playing as the same character?"
Before the patch, every character was the same, because it was designed to be that way. Skills were progressively stronger down the tree, so the lowest skill was better. You always used that. Everyone did. Period.
"Alternate solution: A Fable 3 system where you choose your upgrades in whatever order you want, but in the end you still have all the skills the game has to offer."
That would be quite awesome actually. Still mostly the same concept, but I feel like D3 really forced me to try things, instead of just settling on what I liked.
"Competitive elements: Needing to actually build your character in such a way that you stand a chance instead of the game forcing everyone to be equal no matter what."
You mean not D2? D2 forced you to be a very specific way, and like I mentioned it was intentionally designed that way (though they realized the error of their ways, it took them a while to come up with the synergy system). Post-patch 1.10, D2 is a pretty good game, it only really shines after the synergy system. It is sooooooooo good then.
"Chrono Trigger is a different segment of the RPG genre. It's more of an adventure game. Half-Life is an adventure game, not an RPG. You're not playing a role, you're playing a story."
Chrono Trigger is not an RPG?!?! A WHAAAAA?!?!?!?!? You might find some heated yelling at you for that one. But besides that... what about...
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Vagrant Story
FF any of them
Dragons Quest any of them
Dark Souls
Earthbound
Planescape: Torment
Ultima any of them
Xenogears
Illusion of Gaia
Are all these seriously not RPG's? What games are?
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I already used Dark Souls as an example to support my own argument, if you want to use it you need to explain yourself. I haven't played any of the other games you mentioned.
And again, poor wording on my part (it's midnight here if that's an excuse) in reference to Chrono Trigger. I'll just drop that argument because I don't see that going anywhere productive for either of us. Same for all of the other arguments I didn't respond to: as far as I'm concerned, nothing I say will change your mind and nothing you say will change mine on those subjects.
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Dark Souls is glorious. Love that game to tiny little pieces.
Ill end it with this, You are stuck on Patch 1.10, as is everyone else. The complaints about D3 right now, were far worse in D2, but nobody really remembers them. Find yourself a fresh copy of D2 (patch version 1.0) and play through it all the way, you will see exactly what I mean. IIRC, endgame items, literally items that you could get endgame, were not added till about 1.04 or so. You were running naked till then.
I actually really want to be convinced that D3 is a bad game, but people don't mention why to me, and their arguments are the same reasons that D2 was "bad" at first. I have tried to use other games and theories to debunk things you are saying, but you just kind of throw them aside and say that it isn't going anywhere. Take care anyways, if someone else wants to throw me a PM or something, Id love to hear it, I just honestly do not understand it.
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If you'll leave with that, let me leave with a counter:
I wasn't around when Diablo 2 v1.0 was around. But I bet people complained a lot back then, too. And maybe it was hated then, too. So if we're going to hate on Diablo 3, at least be glad the game - currently - is garbage. Diablo 3 is a sequel to the current version of Diablo 2 we hold in such high esteem. We get to make those comparisons and demand those changes.
And Dark Souls is listed as the best game ever made in my opinion. So at least, in the end, we found one thing to agree upon.
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You can in fact respec your characters now? Yeah, they added that a year or 2 back.
Aldso, D2 is so far superior to D3 it's not even funny. Better in every way. And btw, what choice is there in D3, honestly? Almost all the endgame skills are pretty much no brainers, cookie cutter ho!
edit: also, Chrono Trigger is tied for the most overrated RPG ever with FF7.
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Ill agree with you on 7, I really, really enjoyed Chrono Trigger though, but it is not my favorite RPG ever, I was using it as an example because a lot of people put it there. I prefer Baldurs Gate II, FFVI, Planescape: Torment (best writing in a video game, period), and Vagrant Story. I am sure there are others too, those are just off top of the ol' head.
Also, we are complaining about D3 months after release, so I am comparing it to D2 months after release.
"Aldso, D2 is so far superior to D3 it's not even funny."
Yes I heard, because of elements. Same way Journey is amazing because of experiences, right (insert shitstorm for knocking Journey)?
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I think the argument lies in execution, not in concept, as well as in succession. Something I should have mentioned in our other comment chain, but I'll do it here for consistency:
Releasing Diablo 3 as a sequel to Diablo 2 is the major reason most people hate it. If Diablo 3 had released as a new IP, even if they blatantly titled it a "spiritual successor," it wouldn't have received as much hatred from the community.
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Pretty much. I was expecting the series to evolve, not devolve. And I still enjoy D3.
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Agreed, and that is the argument I was looking for.
People dislike it because they should have improved on D2, which they only did in tiny ways, because with all the patching that was done to D2, it really achieved hack n slash perfection. It may just be the perfect hack n slash game (besides Borderlands, but that is a horribly biased argument with no backing, I just really fucking love that game).
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I just hated actually being around during Diablo 3's development and watching them come up with legitimately great ideas, and then immediately turning them into more of the clutter I hate Diablo 3 for right now. For example, the runes for your skills - originally you were going to have to farm for them, and there would be different tiers (X Rune I, X Rune II, X Rune III, etc), and I was actually excited for that feature. But it never came to be. There were other things like that, too, which only turned my anticipation for the game into a downward spiral.
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And as much as Jay Wilson gets slammed for it, I can almost guarantee it was Activision's call. "Seperate entities in the same company" my ass, the good ideas that got neutered all completely smack of Activison meddling.
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Poor design choice. It'd have been ok if there were more than 2 viable builds for each character. If you want to test a new build you have to start a new character lolwut.
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The biggest problem with having numerous viable builds is that people are going to min-max the system to find the most optimal builds. More variety in skills and more numbers to shift only encourages that behavior even more. Diablo-style games also have some design decisions and limitations that prevent some measure of uniqueness between players that might be present in more direct action games. (For example, with a more reflex driven game you might not be physically capable of playing the "optimal" style.)
As for having to restart your character, there are people that actually want that requirement. Having to restart your character is a way to lengthen the game, but people apparently like being given reasons besides entertainment to keep doing things. Achievements are an example. People will stick with a game that they aren't enjoying just to get achievements. Unlocks are another. Release a fighting game with 20 characters available from the start, and people will get tired of it and reviews will talk about how it has little replay value. Release the same game with 12 characters available from the start and the other 8 have to be unlocked, and people will play it longer and reviews will talk positively about the extra time you will play the game to get everyone. People will quit playing Modern Warfare when they max their prestige, but when Infinity Ward added five more prestige levels, people went back to playing just long enough to get them.
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Having an option to respect doesn't stop players who want to start over a new character to do so. On the other hand, not having it forces those who think differently to do it anyways.
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bummer. Diablo 2 is an all-time classic and probably the most addictive game ever made. Diablo 3 keeps you interested for no longer than 2 weeks.
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Diablo 3 was a huge downer, but I'm probably the only person who said they would boycott it and actually lived up to their word.
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The most disappointing thread started by yet another person who couldn't use search . . .
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Medal Of Honor: Warfighter
It's not that bad but it's not the amazing game I expected it to be.
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I don't think wireless laptops were included in their target audience.
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I'm curious how you got "wireless laptop" from me saying "shoddy internet". I know it's hard to believe, but not everyone has good internet. I had crappy satellite internet for the longest time cause nothing else was available out here up till about half a year ago.
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I know exactly what you're referring to, most of my statement came from personal issues with having unstable connection on my laptop. I have a really good connection, but my laptop can't get any reliable connection. And even when it does, anyone trying to microwave something will put that to an end.
It was also a reference to the arguments that were thrown around when persistent online play was first announced, about people who travel or game on the go, be in on the road or on the train or in a hotel or what have you, may very well not have a connection at all, so depriving them of your game isn't a good selling point.
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Wired connection, 37.43Mb/s (4.67MB/s) down, 4.12Mb/s (0.51MB/s) up, 27MS latency (ping) to my ISP
For the first 4 months, I never saw below 300MS while playing Diablo III, most often staying in the 400500MS range. Currently, I get a low of 100MS ping, with my average being around 130150MS.
When I played World of Warcraft, on a far crappier connection, I would get close to the same latency as my ISP... 50~80MS.
The REAL reason for shitty connections to Diablo III is the fact that there were only 2 North American server clusters. One out west/midwest and one in the south east if I recall correctly.
Because Blizzard wasn't getting paid per-month, they cheaped the fuck out on the servers. I cannot verify this, but I heard there are fewer Diablo III servers world wide than there are WoW servers in any country.
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"[Diablo III] was a great game and an excellent addition to the franchise that deserves praise and comendation"
Either you never played Diablo III, or you never played Diablo II.
Also, there was recently a topic Title you regret purchasing the most in 2012 in which many people, myself included, said Diablo III.
$60 for a game that was released unfinished, with ever delayed promises of fixes and features that failed to be delivered on month after month after month. With some promised features STILL not available today.
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I have played Diablo 2 and 3 and enjoyed some of the changes they made, but many of them were annoying but not enough to be claimed as the most dissaponting game for 2012. The delays are the blizzard approach claiming its done when its done and in this case it appears as if they needed more time. The anger at needed to have internet always on was annoying but neccesary for the auction house implementation.
If you want a game you can really label as most dissapointing for 2012 I would say Medal of Honour Warfighter is easily better suited for the title than Diablo.
But it is just my opinion, accept that.
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One has to consider that it was not the same developer team that made Diablo and Diablo II. The company name might be the same, but a whole different bunch of people behind it. Games are made by developers and the ideas/skill they harness. So yes, the company might be the same, but the direction is different. As in shit.
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Definitely, Max Payne 3.
Though there were a lot of disappointments in games this year, this one still hurts like hell.
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dum dum dum....
Diablo 3
slow clapping
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