now, would you still include no VAC Bans as a requirement?
Proofs that someone's VAC ban was lifted (because it was probably FALSE VAC BAN) etc. - https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/2cm34j/yes_false_vac_bans_do_happen_my_ban_was_lifted/
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SGtools can also be used to create a giveaway like this that only VAC-banned users can enter. I do think it's detrimental to the community to have 'no VAC ban' as one of the filter presets, but at least the custom filter options can make it a bit fairer.
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It's an interesting question that pinpoints one of the ever present tensions ailing SteamGifts:
People want to give away games, but they don't want anyone to be able to win them. They only want what they think are nice people. There's people who hate those who express gratitude for the GA, other scoff at the latter and call them bots or even stupid (is this nice?). Others again don't care either way. Everybody has their own meaning for nice, and one's nice is another man's asshole.
So you've got proxies for nice, like not being VAC banned or being level 2000. None of them is accurate, because there is no telling if a person with a theoretical value of $15,000 in games given away, isn't someone who's e.g. looking for validation, fake friends or maybe affected by an addiction, or whatever else.
Regardless, there's tools to check those proxies for niceness. Even if the tools were perfect, mostly nobody is 100% an asshole or 100% a nice person.
Luckily, there is a solution to this conundrum, and it's a simple one: Stop worrying who wins your gibbas and live happy.
(or if that's too hard, stop making giveaways. And be happy)
Once the game's been given away and regularly activated, you shouldn't have any expectations about the person who receives it. You can't expect them to play the game today, in 1 year or within 5. You can't expect them to like it. You have no idea how that person's life is, in most instances, and it's arrogant to have expectations of them doing that certain something that you want, simply because they won a game from you. It's not in any way a binding contract... that's not the meaning of the word "spirit" you often see thrown around.
Thinking differently is a recipe for disappointment.
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Luckily, there is a solution to this conundrum, and it's a simple one: Stop worrying who wins your gibbas and live happy.
(or if that's too hard, stop making giveaways. And be happy)
or
people should stop telling others how to spend their money.
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As far as I'm concerned, they can spend it all on booze and hookers.
But keep going.
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You ever notice it's always those who have won far more than they've given who think they have the right to tell others what to do with their money? I can't quite find the word I am looking for to describe it ...
But its ironic, isn't it? ;)
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I think it works both ways. Also, we shouldn't pay so much attention to plain numbers.
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It's pretty cut and dry for me -- their money, their rules. So no, it doesn't work both ways for me. ;)
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I'm not suggesting what anyone should do with their money, I'm simply saying that it's pointless to turn into control crazy freaks because the system is imperfect and there is no surefire way to have "nice people" win (errata: except whitelist/group isolationism, but that doesn't matter for the context of this thread)
You guys either didn't read my post or didn't understand it.
Also, for the guy who commented on my won/sent ratio, that's very judgmental and your sticking blindly to numbers without realizing that there are people behind those numbers, says more about your character than you realize.
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And you don't bother to say thank you on the giveaways you win. That says a lot about your character. ;)
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Not always, no, but you can't rule out I haven't thanked them otherwise (indeed I have done so), so it's just another instance of you being judgmental.
Also I'll tell you this: I had gone through times of my life when I didn't feel like talking to strangers and didn't thank the creator at all.
Kill me.
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There's no excuse for poor manners, so spare me. Posting a "thank you" comment on a giveaway you've won isn't "talking to strangers."
It's showing gratitude. It's showing appreciation. It's showing common manners.
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You are being self righteous and refuse to understand.
If you don't want to empathize, you won't be able to see through my eyes.
(and BTW most of my wins have been delivered through chat or email. Chat or email feel like talking to me, I need to be in the right mood to do that, though you may not share that view)
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You are being self righteous and refuse to understand.
Odd, you're speaking to someone who suffers from clinically diagnosed agoraphobia. It's not a "mood thing" for me -- it's a daily thing, and I still say thank you. Every single time.
Whatever. Just whatever. But don't bother commenting your thoughts on filters anymore. You're part of the reason they exist at all.
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See? now you think you can tell others what they should or they shouldn't comment upon.
And trying to cast me as The Absolute Evil? Are you serious or what?
I was simply trying to warn people about wasting time and energy over trying to control what they can't, with disastrous results.
You've turned this into a trial. Do you really think you are so much better than everyone else?
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What's that to do with manners? Why should I thank people for a .1% win chance? It's slightly different if you win, but honestly?
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Posting a "thank you" comment on a giveaway you've won
A win, not a chance.
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That's something I've approximately never done ;x
I don't feel bad about it either, but such is life. I care very little for that myself either so eh
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And that's fine, whatever works.
But if you read some of the replies here, the story changes from always, to sometimes he doesn't feel like it, to he does it on steam, to he has a condition that prevents it (back to sometimes). ;)
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Tzaar you really need to break out of this routine. Stop thinking you are so much better than you can judge others. Try understanding and accepting instead.
You don't hold The Absolute Truth and you are not The Absolute Right FFS. Try and claim you're never being indifferent, or uncaring or a dick. Then we will know what we're dealing with here.
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It's about exerting control over others, and exclusion is the main tool.
If you go back and check Tzaar's posts you'll see he's cautiosuly avoiding discussing the points, while clinging to whatever detail allows him to stick to his narrative.
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Basically, if you create a public giveaway (or post an invite only link on the forum) you're relinquishing the right to decide who's the winner. It's implicit in the design: you don't pick the person, the RNG picks it.
Since the inception of the blacklist, people are just spamming it like there's no tomorrrow, but it's a lost fight. There are more "unnice" people signing up than anyone can ever blacklist, even if they spent 24 hours a day doing that. Those who are not nice now may learn about their wrong ways later. Those who appear to be not nice may have reasons for behaving that way.
How can you not see that? Like I said, the only solution to the control problem, is WL/group solipsism. Otherwise, what one needs to ask is: what's the point? when holding that tiny little amount of control stops being worth it?
Noone can control who wins a GA, unless it falls into that small territory of extreme control mentioned above. If the people entering a GA can't be strictly controlled, there's always the chance a "not nice" person, or simply someone you don't like, will win it.
It has absolutely nothing to do with telling others where or how they should spend their money. If nothing else, because when the GA is about to be created, the money has already been spent. The only decision is whether you're going to give that game away to a group or whitelist or friends, or you're going to take your chances with the general public.
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It has nothing to do with exerting control.
It has to do with showing gratitude when you receive a gift.
I never told you to say thank you, and I certainly cannot force you to.
I just said I believe it's rude if you don't. I'd believe the same of anyone who doesn't say thank you.
FYI, I don't blacklist people who don't say thank you, but it's certainly appreciated when they do. ;)
There are 39 people on my blacklist -- all for extremes of racism, sexism, scams, and the like. Period.
SGTools has to do with respecting the right of others to limit who can and cannot enter their giveaways. I don't even use sgtools, and I fully respect that choice they make. Their money, their giveaways, their rules. To tell them anything else is just as rude to me as not saying thank you on a win. YMMV.
EDIT: It seems as though you may not realize this, but SGTools giveaways fall under the "leaked link" rule and are subject to a reroll (and suspension) not because someone has a VAC ban, but because they shouldn't be able to get the link to a VAC ban limited giveaway in the first place.
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@jims I understand. Part of what I'm trying to say, though, is that sometimes we interpret things, maybe because we don't have enough information. Then we assume.
E.g. not saying thanks on a won giveaway is interpreted as being ungrateful, when gratitude has been expressed through another channel, or simply life got in the way. For another guy, if you say thanks you're a bot or stupid. And every one of us enters so many giveaways, how can we really make sure we're conducting ourselves "properly" when everyone has a different idea of what "properly" means. And even arguing that "saying thanks" is easy and takes so little time, it's making assumption about others people's lives. What if I get interrupted and I forget to say thanks, now I am suddenly a bad guy?
Something I'm trying to convey is we shouldn't assume too much, we shouldn't feel like we know everything and we are in the position of deciding who's good and bad, in absolute terms. There may be other explanations we fail to see. Not out of malice, simply because we can't imagine the variety of life. And sometimes people really do behave like dicks, but we shouldn't assume they ARE dicks, without any chance of being redeemed, just because they happened to do something wrong.
I guess if you would boil down to a single line, that one would be that a modicum of tolerance and understanding only makes everything better for everyone involved.
@Tzaar again, this has nothing to do with telling others what to do with their money, You, and everyone else, are/is free to do what you want with you giveaways. Just like everyone else. Nobody can force you, nobody's holding a gun to your head.
I'm simply asking a question: when does exerting control stops being worth it because the time wasted over trying to control who can and can not enter becomes moot, because the tools are flawed and the concept of "nice" is extremely subjective.
Want to add me to your blacklist? how can I stop you, seriously? I can only talk to you and try to make you understand my situation.
I am arguing the futility of trying to exert control when no reliable tools to tell apart who's nice and who's not exist, what being nice really means, that being nice is really a relative concept that changes depending on who you ask to.
This thread is about something that appears to be the most obvious condition, being VAC ban free, and it turns out it's really not that clear cut when you start looking at the details.
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the concept of "nice" is extremely subjective.
And that's exactly why various filters are offered and used. To at least ease the minds of some of those who want to filter out some of the more unsavory types. As you yourself stated - it's subjective, and so is the sense of "futility" of which you speak.
What may seem futile to you may not to someone else. As long as it makes them feel better about creating their giveaways and dealing with the winners, they can use whatever filters they want, as far as I am concerned. Puzzles, whitelists, blacklists, groups, level restrictions, and even SGTools. Hell, most of those filter me out, and I fully support their use. If they feel more comfortable filtering out VAC bans, who am I to say differently? For me to tell them they cannot use whatever filters they like would be wrong to me. Again, YMMV.
And why would I blacklist you? You've not earned a place there. I believe you should say thank you on every win, but that's not a reason for me to blacklist someone. In fact, if you saw my blacklist and the reasons why, you'd agree you don't belong with those people, and I couldn't argue it.
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I think there are other, much more unfair filters that this one.
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+1, bump, stab, scoodleypoop, whitelisted, watever...
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So you guys are telling me, if I download that 'dsfix' for Dark Souls: PTDE, I will get vac banned?
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sgtools has been used a lot lately for giveaways and i have no problems with most of the requirements peeps are using, ratios, maximums and minimums received and given its all well and good, BUT for one:
NOT ever being VAC banned.
but why...as i am not a cheater and i have to plans on cheating i should be allright... right?. The thing is that as with many things Valve does, the VAC ban system is incredibly flawed... As seen in the video, VAC bans can be triggered by mods, even Half Life 1 single player mods...
Exibit
So think twice before you go around judging peeps by a VAC bans.
<3
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