Exactly. In England they said in a newspaper that the killer of those school kids "played the extremely violent and brutal game, Dynasty warriors". You don't kill people in that game. They run off the screen. I play GTA, CoD, BF, etc, and I am an extremely passive person. I never get angry or violent. This guy had schizophrenia. People with schizophrenia have violent outbursts and hallucinate, and he had access to guns, that is why those people died. Not because of video games. Look at South Korea, a nation which is so obsessed with video games that they have turned it into a televised sport. How many school shootings have they had? None. The media is stupid. And what makes it worse it that the killer gets fame and the media earns money from the dead.
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I'm not "spreading BS about schizophrenics".
True, not all schizophrenics are violent, I did not say that, but it would be wrong to state "most are non-violent", the same as it would be wrong to state "most schizophrenics are violent". I should admit, I was wrong in stating "People with schizophrenia have violent outbursts", when it should have been "some people with schizophrenia have violent outbursts". My Nan was schizophrenic. She killed herself when my mum was 12. So I did not personally know her. My mum has told me she (my nan) used to get violent outburts. My ex girl friends mum is a schizophrenic because of drug abuse. She is prone to violent outbursts. I was in a pshychiatric unit for 6 months and some patients were schizophrenic and quite a few were violent, and some who where not all that violent had really bad outbursts. Schizophrenics are no more dangerous then the average person unless they are actively psychotic, unmedicated, unable to recognise they are ill, and using drugs and/or alcohol.
I did not know that Adam being schizophrenic was just a theory. Being in Britain, we do not get all the facts from most worldwide stories. I do know had some mental illnesses as his brother Ryan stated so. (I did a quick search)
To be honest, America should get rid of most guns and have stricter policies. If my history is right, the second amendment was put in place during the revolution so colonists had better protection against the Brits. This may be wrong, feel free to correct me.
Australia has had similar shootings in the past. They scrapped guns and put better laws in place and I think there has be 0 (or maybe 1) incident since. Stricter laws is the way to go. And people shouldn't listen to the NRA blaming movies and games.
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Fair enough, we'll chalk it up to poor wording then. Some schizophrenics certainly are prone to violent outbursts but that's an exception rather than the norm (as with normal people). My father's a schizophrenic and is one of the least violent people I've ever met. Same goes for my cousins that are also schizophrenic. Using schizophrenics in a mental ward as examples is bad because generally only the worst cases are going to end up there.
All we really know at this point is that Adam Lanza had Asperger's which is probably irrelevant to the whole situation. I suspect he had many other undiagnosed issues as well and we probably won't ever really know more than that.
As for your theory on the second amendment: no one really knows for sure. That's one of the focal points of the whole gun debate in America. I actually agree with you that stricter (and better enforced) laws are the way to go but the debate gets steered towards making guns illegal entirely. As I mentioned in another post I think this is intentional because the NRA and their ilk don't want ANY changes so they go after the most outrageous claims against them and make it seem like that's the entire argument.
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What you say is true about those in a mental ward.
I doubt we will ever know the truth behind why Adam killed those people. Even if they find scripts or diaries they still won't get the full story.
Completely ruling out all ownership of guns is most likely not the way forward. People should be allowed ownership but under much stricter control. For example: Only the licensed owner may use the gun in defence. Must have full background tests, etc. The NRA are most likely just trying to protect their business. I for one think it is wrong that the media makes money from publicising the deaths of these people. Adam Lanza deserved to have had his name died with him. I also think it is wrong that the media always targets video games and sometimes (but rarely) movies too. Clearly they are scared of this new form of media taking over. Again, I think they are idiots. If their accusations about video games had any backing too them then a lot of people that play games like CoD or Ninja Gaiden would be out there killing people. But this does not happen, thus why their argument is invalid.
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Meh, nothing really new. Their idea to have armed police officer in each school was a lot better laughing material.
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I understand the other ones being mentioned as the usual scapegoats for "violent video games" but, come on- Bulletstorm?! Yea, I'm sure a lot of kids go on murder sprees with their stasis leashes and guns that shoot drills...
Really, this would be so tragic if those guys didn't look like complete retards and didn't make us laugh at them so much. :D
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Come now, we all know that no one was ever killed with any sort of weapon in a purposeful and planned out method until the 1980's when video games because a crazy and still growing hipster fad.
Lets not let pesky things like facts get in the way of finger pointing. Golden nuggets of satan's lies such as, gun crime per capita is on the DECLINE, violent crime per capita is on the decline, and that the video game industry as a whole is growing more rapidly, contrary to cries of anti-pirate groups.
If anything is to blame its the fear mongering from the media and growing safety net that protects retards that gives a mentally unstable person access and training to firearms, much less high powered semi-automatic rifles.
preemptive edit
While gun crime/violent crime may be on the increase over the last 4-6 years, year to year, as a whole from 1950s onward, they are on the decline.
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Video Games and movies are the most popular form of media (with video games at the top) and other forms of media will do any shit they can to try to get that stuff down therefore making their stuff more popular. Ugh. Nothing new but this is just total BS.
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Well you know if video games have done one thing for us its to incite an insatiable need to kill people and considering that theres millions of us im not surprised that every day we hear of more gamers going on mad killing rampages...oh wait
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A concealed weapons permit didn't help in the Gifford's shooting...
Americans are dumb.
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Yes, yes we are. My biggest complaint is that the gun control debate always devolves into ban gun vs don't ban guns. I think the thought leaders (like the NRA) intentionally lead the conversation this direction to avoid having any real discussion
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People devolve it automatically by crying to ban guns rather than deal with the root of the issue and admit that people who want to do these things will do so with or without guns being banned. They prey on the weak. If they target someone who they view isn't weak, they will do whatever they can to gain the upper hand in the situation. Whether it's surprise, weapons, or whatever. Do you think the kind of person who would shoot up a school or a place like that would have the gall to try it in a place where they're likely to get shot or subdued pretty quickly upon even displaying their intent? I don't think so, 99% of the time it would never happen.
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The biggest problem USA obviously has lies in the simple fact that people are either scared, stupid or embarrassed to admit they have an issue (as far as mental thing goes). In my opinion no sane person, no matter what their hobby is, will ever pick up a gun and go on a killing spree. Fix is simple - failproof system with much better mental health control. This dude's mother knew her son was ill and yet she did nothing. Why? Be it lack of insurance or simpleminded thinking 'I'm too scared/embarrassed to admit something is wrong with his head' - she and those people close to him are really the ones to blame for what he did. He was insane, he had an easy access to guns and he did what he did.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4 need to say more?
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Why would they blame themselves? They are not at fault for what happened at that school... They even tried to get armed guards at schools, the country turned it down... My dad has guns, he would never shoot anyone unless they broke in or attacked him... The NRA shouldn't blame video games, I agree, but they don't have any reason to blame themselves...
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I find it funny that americans blame video games for violent events in their country, when they have a weapon support group like NRA. I know no other country that has groups like these and no other countries where gun massacres are so common.
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Northern Africa isn't exactly the beacon of freedom and prosperity that America claims to be. China is a one-party dictatorship with active dissidents, Mexico has drug cartels fighting for control of the whole country.
When those are your comparisons you know there's something seriously wrong with your country.
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Wow... Mexico has more shootings in a day, than America has in a year... They have some of the strictest gun laws in the world... Anyone who thinks we need to ban guns, has never heard of the black market... If someone wants to kill someone, they will get a hold of a weapon... Whether that be a gun, or a baseball bat... They will get a weapon... My family has guns, we use them for hunting... We use them, so we can have food... We hunt deer and we eat that deer throughout the whole year (we usually shoot like 5-6). The NRA is supporting people like us who need guns... If we didn't shoot our deer, we would have much less money due to buying meat all the time...
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@cowbell and SilentShadow117 You both are talking about countries that have more significant problems than gun laws.
Some cities in Mexico are well known to be practically ruled by powerful drug cartels who sadly are above the law. The majority of Africa is downright plunged with corruption and guerrillas everywhere, so this ain't the best example.
You know something is really fucked up if nowadays a bunch of moral fags STILL keep blaming videogames for every violent act that happens, when you can see far worse stuff on the news and the movies, which for them is something right.
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We still don't need to ban guns... I don't give a damn if people kill people with guns here, THAT'S WHY WE DON'T BAN THEM!!! Because PEOPLE... Kill people... Guns don't... We just bought an AR-15 which they say we need to ban because it's an assault rifle... Those guys are complete and total idiots... An AR-15 is a SEMI-AUTO... NOT A FULLY-AUTO... I don't think it's guns or video games that's the problem... And I know I am going to get so much frickin' hate about this... But it's because sin is in the world, and people use video games to show it (I still play video games but for different reasons other than killing), and use guns as a method of killing people... If you ban guns, they will use a bat... They will get the gun illegally... The problem is not that guns are legal, it's because people are f***ed up...
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I understand what you say but I don't share your point of view. Imho, the guns are not the problem itself, it's the ease of getting them which aggravates the situation
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I normally don't go on rants about people discussing politics here and there, as I very much dislike apathy, but doesn't this site have a no politics rule? If I want to talk politics I have places I do that. Steamgifts isn't one.
Maybe hearing all this from left and right is rubbing me wrong. I think fingerpointing from any side is tasteless in the wake of what happened.
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On other breaking news water is still wet and NRA is still a bunch of douches.
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i still play mortal kombat 9, best fighthing game ever
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I think someone has missed the point of the NRA's remarks.
People blame guns, when guns just sit there until a person touches them.
Where as no one says anything about violence in movies, TV, Music & Video Games.
The point being, the violence desensitizes people, and it does.
The NRA is pointing out that people are stupid and have double standards.
In the United States of America, our founding fathers felt the people should be armed, to feed themselves, protect their property, to guard against foreign invaders others AND to protect themselves from a government that would put itself before the people (as ours has been slowly doing for nearly a hundred years).
And some games are truly a bit over the top and unneeded.
That combined with our declining education system (becoming more of an indoctrination system) has made some crimes worse.
But mass shootings have not increased in our country, media sensationalism of the crimes & perpetrators however has.
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I agree... Someone kills someone? "It's not his fault, he played Mass Effect 3 so ban the game! Ban the guns because the gun killed him!" It's just stupid how they react... If someone broke into my dad's gun safe and shot his/her self, my dad is at fault... That makes no sense!!! They broke it, they loaded it, they cocked it, they pointed it at his/or self, they pulled the trigger! Who cares that my dad had it locked and the key hidden away, he shouldn't have had guns in the house in the first place! They would glorify the other person saying that it wasn't his fault... I have lost all hope in humanity...
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Doesn't help the media is an enabler.
If Liberals actually cared about this, they wouldn't set this shit up, just to monopolize on it while the bodies are still warm. Connecticut is number 5 in government control of others guns.
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AMEN!!! Fellow Conservative? If we would stop glorifying the killer in the media, people wouldn't do it as much!!! I remember watching an NCIS episode, when the killer at the end of the show stated "It doesn't matter now, they will all know my name <insert name I don't remember here>." He did it because he wanted publicity (and in the episode they call him after that "The killer whose name will not be released.")
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Ah, I see.. Well at least we agree on our view of how the media glorifies the killers...
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I agree with them on everything they had to say in that video... Minus the gaming comment... I play video games (obviously) and those games are games like Skyrim, Oblivion, Halo, etc. etc. That automatically makes me a mass murderer right? I agree with the fact that they glorify killing and stuff like that (CoD does it because the entire game is based on the multiplayer), but if you are like me, you play the game for the story... When I play Halo, I play it because of the story... When I play any of the Elder Scrolls games, it's for the stories that they contain... I don't play them because of killing, I won't play games like CoD and GTA because they glorify the kill, and they glorify stealing the car... Yes they CAN glorify them in Halo and TES (Halo no longer does it in singleplayer), but that's not why most people play them (unless you have no clue what RPG's are for and you are an idiot for thinking that Halo is great without the story).
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Yeah I know this is technically (and tangentially) related to video games, but really? I don't want to hear anybody's opinion (especially the awful ones) on this, and steamgifts isn't the place. If you want to discuss this with badly informed anonymous internet armchair critics, go do it elsewhere and close this thread
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Ya this thread should probably be closed before I get pissy again and start cursing at people (I almost did a few minutes ago). I need to stop getting into debates... On the internet or in real life, I get pissed in either situation...
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How wrong you think I am? About what view? On guns? Here I go again... sigh I should probably go play Dark Messiah and take my anger out on some Black Guards...
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Okay then, I guess we will agree to disagree... My view of guns is that they should not be banned because they can be used in the right hands (such as my dad's) for the right reasons. But I don't want to get suspended again (I insulted someone's grammar in a very rude way) so I will refrain from going on about this for hours...
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Dude you can't have a reasonable debate with some people, especially on the internet... because even if you win, you lose. This isn't the place and nothing good can come from this. Guns have been around forever and psychos have been around forever, but school shootings are a relatively new phenomenon so there's definitely something different at play here. I don't know what it is but I don't think it's videogames either. Anyway for what it's worth I do agree with you. There's a hidden agenda to ban guns and it doesn't have anything to do with these shootings. Honestly I don't like to believe that this country is that stupid but I don't have any other explanation for it.
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I agree... I just have my view of guns as they are not what kill people... My dad has not and most likely will not kill someone... I view guns more as tools, yes they can be used as weapons, but I use them as tools... Now, I can go on about this for hours until the other person gives up or I get suspended, but I must refrain myself from doing this...
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Yeaaaaaaah, so we were talking about closing this thread. That's it. I don't want to talk about it because I really disagree with some things being said, but you aren't going to change some anonymous internet person's mind and discussions like this get really nasty really quickly. If you want to talk about it, go elsewhere. Hell, if you want to argue it with me, add me and do it on steam. Can we just stop doing it here please?
To reiterate: Steamgifts isn't the place for gun/political discussion, let's stop talking about it and just call for the thread to be closed
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Alright, I added you on Steam... I would love to continue this conversation.
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I should be a serial killer by now.
I blame the mayans.
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Yeah playing games makes it possible to kill people, not having a gun in your hands... right. Maybe they might want to first take guns out of reach of anyone who wants one and see what THAT does to number of killings.
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