I was suspended for an obvious trading joke in a trading thread (I think it was during the era of Dota gifts). And I think it was well deserved.
To clarify the difficulties of translation, I provide my own translation from the dictionary about "but":
I wish you provided an example with "I know begging isn't allowed here, BUT".
I know begging isn't allowed here, BUT [it's not begging]? Maybe.
I know begging isn't allowed here, BUT [I'm gonna try it anyway]? Sounds more plausible.
So your friend had a brain fart and screwed up. It's fine, it can happen to anyone. Just relax. It's not the end of the world, it's three days only ffs.
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All those friendly comments... I wonder if those people also kick beggars when they see one in the streets...
That being said, boring topic and I understand that we don't want the forums to be flooded with "hey do you guys have a key for X?" topics 👀
(and if someone is thinking of asking "why did you reply to a boring topic?": I'd have ignored the topic had it had no responses, but seeing it already had a whole page of hate, I thought I'd balance this a little bit)
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I didn't see any hate. Annoyance? Yes. Rudeness? Maybe a bit, yeah.
If you take one isolated comment, sure. But 25+ times the same, starts looking more like ganging up.
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It's not ganging up just because the majority of people do not agree with the OP.
Yeah, we see the same kind of comments being posted, but OP is partly to blame for that. They keep coming back again and again without (in my opinion) having any valid point... They seem to see that suspension was unfair and most people here think it wasn't. If you reply to people, you can expect those people to reply back. It's just logical. It's a forum. And it's SteamGifts. People love drama over here. Now it seems pretty clear to me that OP won't bulge in their opinion so I think it would be best for them to just close the thread. If they keep replying, it's never going to end... unless a mod steps in and eventually close the thread.
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With a thread like this, he is going to get a response from people that agree or disagree with him. If he has heard enough, he can always close the thread but he wants active discussion of this issue. If there are people that agree with him, he will get someone backing him up. The fact that almost everyone disagrees with him and he is still defending the guy just antagonises people further. I do NOT "hate" him at all but i disagree with his point of view. In hindsight, maybe a poll could have given him the answers he was looking for without the so called drama.
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Yeah I agree that a poll would probably have saved a lot of typing...
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Well that's the modern definition of harassment: multiple persons saying the same thing once each.
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Don't waste your time like this. Moderators have the absolute right to decide whether or not to suspend.
So you better talk to them. Our opinions won't matter much.
To me it's just a lesson to learn and a fact you need to accept if you want to continue using this site. Much like the blacklist system right now.
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he dun goofed and got a 3-day ban, not a big deal. i mean i wouldn't necessarily call it 'begging', though ask almost anyone else here and you'll find there's apparently no difference between 'asking' and 'begging'. just the culture on here, i guess. that being said, even asking on here is disallowed as that would imply a trade offer. he's been here over 5 years and should know not to make a thread asking for a freebie, there are other places for that.
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This is overdramatisation cranked all the way to eleven if i'd seen one.
He begged. He got 3 days. End of story. Незачем натягивать сову на глобус.
Аргументация от уровня юзера в шаге от копротивления за барина, если что. У меня испанский стыд, пожалуйста, больше не делай так.
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Begging to stop others begging is acceptable, what do you think?
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Well, it's too long and the space translator breaks down.┐(´Θ`)┌💻🔥
This is where you can feel that SG moderators and support are making great reading efforts.
True??
I feel that the reasons for all Suspensions are not explicitly stated.
👀ooO(What speculation produces speculation. It will be a hotbed for such discussions and conspiracy theories.)
In this place, There is no history log list of penalties.
If all users see a history of past penalties, that's why they'll use it to regulate GA entry and exit.
I feel that the act of asking for details of penalties is the same as this.
By the way, I hate cheating.
I also hate doing too much.
However, individual ideas are respected to some extent.
Don't ZAP people who want too much.
I don't ZAP anyone who doesn't do the same thing as I do.
What do you want me to do on a daily basis?
We recommend that you use SG tools to report support for fraudulent individuals.
Strive to maintain the community of all users, encourage supporter behavior, and make the community enjoyable.
only this.
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He was begging and it makes no difference if he is begging for a relative.
There's a reason that it's not allowed.
That person might genuinely be looking for an extra copy of a free game for his nephew, but countless others might be looking for an extra copy of a game so that they can trade it. If one incident of "begging" is allowed, then other people will use it as a precedent for asking for even bigger things. When they get in trouble, they use the excuse... "But Bob asked for a game for his nephew here and nothing was done(insert link), how is this any different?"
So, regardless of reasons for begging, everyone gets the same punishment. Even if they are level 10 with good standing. It's just easier to have ONE rule that everyone follows. There is no need to go into reasons behind the begging. This is the internet, and there is no way of knowing anyone's true intentions.
Anyway, it's only 3 days. No big deal. ;)
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All of this made me think that we could use a spare-giveaway-keys thread. But ONLY for keys currently or veeery recently in a giveaway.. For the purpose of not ending up in a dusty place, "go bad", get lost or posted for a bot to grab.
Totally off topic of course..
As for this one.. I don't know.. It's quite ethically grey area but as a rule.. It is indirect asking for a key. It was not "hey who can give me x key for my nephew?" but "anyone has an extra key for x [for my nephew]?". Your problem here is simple. On the one hand he never said the word "give me" but then again from how it is written there is nowhere else the question of who has a spare key would lead.. I haven't seen the orignal thread and how all of this started and all my info come from here. I also don't speak Russian but I'm Greek and MANY words/phrases and the way to say things is different.. But this one was simple..
In theory he didn't asked for a key. It was cleverly constructed as to try to not technically brake any rule (which is why you can say he didn't asked YET) but it is suggestive. Reason behind this is simple: why ask for the presence of a key someone else needs? 100 people will say I have a spare key 100 will say I don't have. Then what? It has 0 purpose to simply ask how many have an extra key of something without asking anything else while mentioning that you know someone who wants it. You don't technically ask for it but then again there is no other reason left. And he didn't care for info, finding cheap, etc etc etc. From what I understand the question was simple "who has a spare key of X? my nephew didn't win the competition". This is an illogical sentence unless you add an implying part. So it maybe carefully constracted but it is what it is..
If the suspension was fair or not or why this rule exist is totally outside the scope of this post.
No matter how you phrase this the problem is not the "but".
Ask yourself this: If I don't want a key, if I don't want info for a key, if a relative doesn't have that key but I do and then I go ask who has a spare key laying around but I don't say to them give it tome if you can, then what am I doing? Writting without reason and wondering how many people have a spare key that my nephew wants to see how unlucky he is?.. :/ It doesn't sound right to me :P
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we could use a spare-giveaway-keys thread.
We have two:
1) https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/hK2kQ/orphan-keys-drop-thread
2) https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/tnWVh/anti-ninjas-key-drops-no-keys-in-messages-though
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It would be an exaggeration come to think of it a little better to add one just for giveaway keys purposes. The anti-ninjas would work better as usually a giveaway key will work fine. In my mind the orphan thread is mostly for "unsure if works" keys.
It's late (4:30am for me) :P I forgot about its existance xD
Thanks for the reminder :D
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It has been clarified MANY times that any form of asking for free keys is considered "begging" and is not allowed on this website. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter if you actually say "I want a free key" or if you say "I am just curious as to whether some keys are available". On this website those are the same thing.
As far as the penalty -- it could have been a simple warning if it looked like maybe the user wasn't familiar with the rules... but when someone says "I know the rules, but I'm going to do this prohibited thing anyway"... that is ALWAYS going to be result in a suspension.
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Okay. Let's go to the logical next step, pretending that no rule was broken there. What follows if I would've been like, I have a key. Does he ask for it, which would be considered begging? Would he message me on Steam and try to buy or trade it from me? Also against the rules. Even if you could say that him asking the question of "does anyone have a key?" not explicitly fall under begging, any additional messages would've broken rules. His financial status, SteamGifts level, the language barrier, or any other thing you want to bring up does not change that he was breaking rules/going to. No one asks "does anyone have this key" without following up with some sort of attempt to obtain it, all of which are against the rules.
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Even if there was an intention to do something criminal, it is still not a crime. That's why people use rule warnings.
In this case, there is an action that can lead to a violation in one of several cases. The variety of these cases can be seen in the original discussion.
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I use this website for a bit already, and know this kind of threads will not gather much sympathy. Like you already can see.
The only thing this thread is doing is being a spotlight for thread that was closed. I wouldn't even know there was an issue if not for it. Just like many other users of this forum. So instead of helping your friend / fellow you pour gasoline over the cigarette butt.
I think it would be best to close this thread to avoid more negativity, and direct inquiries to SG support. Forums are not a place where users can decide on how the site rules should be written or followed. Unless it's thread made by the site admin to discuss changes in the guidelines.
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You able to check original discussion. Users gave different answers and start surpising about suspension. Discussion had closed when more users surpised by suspension. User suspended and where're no reason to continue discussion but users disagree with suspension so It was kind of hide or mute action.
[User was suspended after few minutes but comments much older. Discussion closed when users start surprise and ask about reason with knowledge of rules]
I knew about hysteria and wrote about it in my longread.
I already met cases where're users ask for clarification rules. Some of than led to rules changing for more clarification.
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I already met cases where're users ask for clarification rules. Some of than led to rules changing for more clarification.
Yes, and this rule was already re-worded in the latest guidelines update:
Begging. Do not ask game developers or users for keys or games, unless they are offering and searching for interested parties.
No one was offering free keys or games, so making whole thread just to ask for key is considered to be begging. It was explained many times before that even "joking begging" is not tolerated as it's not possible to know true intention behind someone's words.
There are dedicated threads to ask if there is a deal somewhere (notably Where are those giveaways coming from?). I could link to couple threads I moved from "Deals" to "Off-topic" , as users were asking "Where can I find now Skyrim IIII cheap?" without issuing suspensions. As users were asking for link to deal in shop, not key for someone.
You can treat this comment as a clarification of the rule. Or direct more questions to the support section.
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I wrote about it many times on this discussion and don't understand why I need write it again and again. Why I read what people say and why most of them not do it. Presence, intention, future, cases so much words and just few users read it all and less one agree.
No need to cite rules I'd already cite.
Thank you for ur work about discussions anyway.
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Update 2
First of all, I want to say all who participated (doesn't matter positive, negative, neutral or toxic) and especially to all who really read my longread or any part of it. I'm also thankful for users who whitlisted me.
I'm happy some users read my longread and less of them agreed. I'm decide close discussion cause I really tired copy-past similiar answers to different users of whom didn't read anything and just trying burn somebody with or without reason. I met lot of negative and toxicity without reason and sometimes with reason I guess. And I got negative and toxic level much more than I could get for whole 6 years here.
I also surprised rules became work without corresponding to guidelines and some support staff could mute part of community and it's legal and okay.
I got more understanding why so many users left SG already and leaving it. I met lot of examples of that they complained. Doesn't matter what are u saying, doesn't matter what are u doing because u must just shut up bring gibs and never say anything similiar or close to whole theme of begging no matter is it begging or not. I'm happy where still are different users whom were most part of community early. So pitty such a great community ruins becoming toxic, eyeless and darker more and more.
I'm sorry I didn't find correct phrease for wishing good health so I hope you understand my intention. Wish you all good health. Have a nice day to all.
Table of contents
Disclaimer and important notes.
Key questions
Source discussion with translation
What happened
What the rules say
Important details
Interpretation
Conclusion
Humble opinion
Thank you for your attention
Disclaimer and important notes.
I am not a native English speaker, but I am a native Russian speaker.
By this discussion, I express my worry, my desire to draw attention to the recent incident in order to explain the violation of unknown (in my humble opinion) rules, eliminate language-barrier misunderstanding, and also (perhaps) help to achieve justice.
By this discussion, I am not implying criticism of support, flooding or hyping. I understand that an any person isn't a machine, that any person can be wrong, and this is normal (until technology has changed this).
(I'm also a bad guy who wants to practice some kind of "journalism")
Key questions:
Source discussion with translation
Discussion link: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/yh3h3/znaucto-zdes-nelza-prositno#O7IoI
Translation:
I know begging isn't allowed here, BUT^1.
Guys, does anyone have a key lying around from Tomb Raider free giveaway? I have a game, but my nephew missed the giveaway, he saw the game now and suddenly realize he wanted it (this game).*
(1^Check "Langueage barrier" paragraph for meaning of "BUT")
What happened
A user (lvl 10) was banned for 3 days after asking about the presence of a key from a free giveaway outside from SG. The discussion was closed some time after suspension. Users were divided over the correctness and applicability of the punishment.
What the rules say
The rules do not prohibit begging (asking for a key), selling through SG, referring to reseller stores, but where're no restriction for presence of a key. Where're also nothing about difference between tradeable games and freebies.
Important details
Facts
3.1) author could beg for the key the owner of the key;
3.2) users could say where's still possible to get it;
3.3) users could offer key as a gift;
3.4) obtain game without exchanging keys (Steam Family Sharing).
So, whole those cases are future and not present. No one of them violates rules as a an ask for presence.
Language barrier
The meaning of "but" in English and "Russian" seems to be different. The word "but" in the original language means opposition. In context, it means opposing begging.
To clarify the difficulties of translation, I provide my own translation from the dictionary about "but":
As you can see, 1-6 means contradistinction and 7 not applicable. Whole applicable paragraphs mean contradistinction to begging.
Link to the wiki dictionary (I hope the link works). https://ru.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BD%D0%BE5.
Conclusion
The user knew about rules and made all to prevent breaking it include native language usage. The user stopped one step away from begging cause the user didn't begg for a key but asked about presence of it. That mean,punishment for an action that has not yet been performed IF it's suspension for non-existent begging.
Humble opinion
I think that where're one of 3 cases:
Thank you for your attention.
P.S.: oh my... - it took HOURS for me
Update 1
I'm sorry. In goal to prevent flooding and hyping, I'll not copy-past my answers for patten comments to users who didn't red an "article" and catches "begg"-word.
Update 2
First of all, I want to say all who participated (doesn't matter positive, negative, neutral or toxic) and especially to all who really read my longread or any part of it. I'm also thankful for users who whitlisted me.
I'm happy some users read my longread and less of them agreed. I'm decide close discussion cause I really tired copy-past similiar answers to different users of whom didn't read anything and just trying burn somebody with or without reason. I met lot of negative and toxicity without reason and sometimes with reason I guess. And I got negative and toxic level much more than I could get for whole 6 years here.
I also surprised rules became work without corresponding to guidelines and some support staff could mute part of community and it's legal and okay.
I got more understanding why so many users left SG already and leaving it. I met lot of examples of that they complained. Doesn't matter what are u saying, doesn't matter what are u doing because u must just shut up bring gibs and never say anything similiar or close to whole theme of begging no matter is it begging or not. I'm happy where still are different users whom were most part of community early. So pitty such a great community ruins becoming toxic, eyeless and darker more and more.
I'm sorry I didn't find correct phrease for wishing good health so I hope you understand my intention. Wish you all good health. Have a nice day to all.
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