No... I'm not surprised. Tinybuild has some sort of hard on for ruining peoples days. Yeah, I get that their stolen... but some people have already bought those keys, would've been nicer to let well enough alone, a'la CD Projekt Red when people bought GMG keys (myself included) Now if they just deactivated the keys which weren't sold, that'd be a-ok. But... Tinybuild has a grudge against g2a.
Tinybuild realistically needs to handle their keys better and apply better security... oh and to stop being dicks.
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Better security? you can't shield against credit card fraud. You are simply victim blaming. Blame G2A for allowing strangers to sell their stolen games on the market place.
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Stop buying from G2A. A lot of times thieves use it to make money from stolen credit cards. Do not support this practice.
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Funny thing is if you are the scammer and you made like 200$and you get caught g2a gets all the money you have made + ban your account.... that's IT ! They don't go into legal actions,you can make a new account so basically g2a profits from scams ! ridiculous.
EDIT: Even with the shield you aren't assured a refund if you get scammed lol
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Should we only buy officially stamped resellers ?
Personally, living in France, next to germany, and if I can buy from germany cheaper keys, there is no reason I don't buy there.
There are many reseller plateforms, not only G2A. And actually, G2A allow dev studios to have some kind of control on their products. Here some thoughts, with tinybuild updates : http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2016-06-28-g2a-now-allowing-developers-to-apply-for-royalties
G2A is probably the biggest so it probably wants to consolidate its market by involving dev themselves.
But being the biggest, it is the biggest target. But we aren't talking about others like cdkeys/kinguin, etc.
Here tinybuild disabled activated keys and try to make prejudiced buyers blame G2A and similars.
This is eventually legit. But I think they are just ass as well.
We found a stolen game key batch of #TheFinalStation on @G2A_com and these are now deactivated. Don't buy keys there or risk deactivation.
Well, how are they supposed to know they are stolen... and why they haven't disabled them in first place... (just to be able to blame G2A afterward ??)
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Are we victim blaming again?
By choosing to have a marketplace, G2A is allowing all kinds of strangers to sell their stolen keys there, so they have to accept that devs and customers are not going to be happy about this.
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I am just saying G2A put effort into improving the situation, even if not perfect.
Tinybuild is just blaming G2A, but do they make proposals ?
Just close G2A, and wait for another plateform to emerge ?
To who tinybuild is selling its keys ? they can just choose some official resellers like bundlestar and humble bundle and not be greedy and spread keys themselves. (i guess)
Am I blaming Tinybuild ? Well I just understand they got upset to be victims of card frauds. This is not specifical to indies, but they are fragile.
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Relevant information regarding how much tinybuild lost via g2a (even more right now).
Note that this comment is a reply i made to your comment referring to why tinybuild is upset at g2a this much... this is not the first time it happens,and i stand by your opinion,but g2a profits from scams anyway so they won't fix this.
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but g2a profits from scams anyway so they won't fix this.
why do you say something like this? did you even try to find out if they do anything or not?
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/g2a-tightens-seller-verification-procedure-171840694.html
they profit from selling cheap, legit keys to happy customers. not from bad publicity and refunds...
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In the richard lewis show the reporter r.lewis says that if g2a finds out you're scamming they take all the money in your account and close it , but you (the scammer) can just make a new one and not get any legal action on you by g2a... nothing more is said about scams... if you're a buyer you're most probably gonna get screwed by the refund system. Everything wrong with g2a,esports teams included in this
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In the richard lewis show the reporter r.lewis says that if g2a finds out you're scamming they take all the money in your account
do you really think this has any financial significance for G2A? scammers don't have 10k$ lying around on their account. they probably withdraw their money pretty regularly. the occasional scammer loses a few dollars. so what. that's probably nothing compared to what G2A makes on a daily basis.
but you (the scammer) can just make a new one and not get any legal action on you by g2a
the link i posted says differently. they already check new accounts and plan to do even more in the future.
if you're a buyer you're most probably gonna get screwed by the refund system.
if you didnt use shield, then yes. i personally dislike how shield is a subscription. kinguins solution is way better. a one time payment of 1€ for ensurance, even for expensive games. i find it very baffling though, how people always demand that sites like G2A have a full refund system, just like other key sites. well, they are not like other key sites. they don't sell games to you, they just offer the market place. they are like ebay. i don't see how they should be fully responsible for refunds instead of the actual seller.
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do you really think this has any financial significance for G2A?
Yes , after a certain amout of keys you put on the site you need to pay to put up more insertions / to make the insertion(s) be on their site for more than some weeks (can't remember the exact amount of weeks).
EDIT: Also , when you buy a game from somebody listing it in g2a 30 cents of the game will go to g2a + around the 10% of the price of that game will go to g2a too , so yeah , let's say i am selling fifa 17 for 50 euros on g2a and i'm a scammer... they'd get 5.30€ by hosting the offer once i've sold the money and when they find out i'm a scammer they will keep the money anyways
if you didnt use shield, then yes. i personally dislike how shield is a subscription. kinguins solution is way better. a one time payment of 1€ for ensurance, even for expensive games. i find it very baffling though, how people always demand that sites like G2A have a full refund system, just like other key sites. well, they are not like other key sites. they don't sell games to you, they just offer the market place. they are like ebay. i don't see how they should be fully responsible for refunds instead of the actual seller.
AFAIK when you pay for the games you also pay for some "fees" whenever you use paypal or credit card , they take a certain % via fees which , by the way, legit sites like bundlestars / humblebundle do not have.. so no, when you pay for a game in g2a you're also paying g2a , so why should you pay for the shield anyways?! To pay g2a even more?
the link i posted says differently. they already check new accounts and plan to do even more in the future.
So that proves they will do something about it? the article is 2 months old and you can see they couldn't fix anything.
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Yes , after a certain amout of keys you put on the site you need to pay to put up more insertions / to make the insertion(s) be on their site for more than some weeks (can't remember the exact amount of weeks).
oh, ok. didn't know that. i have to read it up. i still think this is pretty insignificant, since they sell so so much more legit copies. with all that bad press lately, people tend to forget that stolen copies are probably the absolute exception on G2A, not the norm.
EDIT: Also , when you buy a game from somebody listing it in g2a 30 cents of the game will go to g2a + around the 10% of the price of that game will go to g2a too , so yeah , let's say i am selling fifa 17 for 50 euros on g2a and i'm a scammer... they'd get 5.30€ by hosting the offer once i've sold the money and when they find out i'm a scammer they will keep the money anyways
same goes for every marketplace (ebay...). they cannot know beforehand if someone is a scammer. so of course the scammer pays the same fees like all the legit sellers. i don't see how that is relevant.
AFAIK when you pay for the games you also pay for some "fees" whenever you use paypal or credit card , they take a certain % via fees which , by the way, legit sites like bundlestars / humblebundle do not have.. so no, when you pay for a game in g2a you're also paying g2a , so why should you pay for the shield anyways?! To pay g2a even more?
yes, i also dislike that they add paypal fees to their price. but that is also not an uncommon practice. i have seen that with many legit stores, for instance last time i bought a graphics card i paid with paypal and they added the fee for me to pay. so while that's not something i like, it doesn't prove their illegitimacy or anything like that.
regarding shield: let me ask you this question again. do you think a marketplace provider has full responsibility and has to offer full refunds instead of the actual seller? again: i don't like shield. that is one of the reasons i don't use G2A. kinguin does it way better. but i think the responsibility for a sold product lies on the side of the seller, not the mere provider of the place where the transaction took place.
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yes, i also dislike that they add paypal fees to their price. but that is also not an uncommon practice.
It is against the contract they sign with PayPal, so it should be VERY uncommon of a practise.
As for fees: you pay to post keys on the marketplace for a certain amount of time, pay again to keep them listed (because they already have the key you posted, so might as well try to sell it yourself as risk the site accidentally putting it in a promo), you pay fees when someone buys the key, the buyer pays all the transaction fees, and you pay fees when you try to cash out.
Hence the reason G2A is only profitable for G2A and those few Russian groups who sell keys by the tens of thousands. :)
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It is against the contract they sign with PayPal, so it should be VERY uncommon of a practise.
i just searched for a GTX 1070, and the first two entries obviously do exactly that: ^^
http://i.imgur.com/hJnSnkd.png
but you're right, paypal forbids it. just read about it.
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i am wondering if there is a loophole maybe? they raise the shipping cost when i pay with paypal, not the actual price of the product. maybe that's how they do it without getting problems? i will try to find something about it, if i have some time today. ^^
EDIT: by the way, mindfactory is an excellent shop. even with additional paypal fees they are often still cheaper than others. so i am not really that mad about it. ;)
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Usually companies look at the data of how much is shipped to certain regions and how often a certain service is used for payment, then adjust the prices on everything accordingly. My favourite example is BookDepository, which has a single price on everything: shipping and transaction fees are included in the product price, no matter where you live and what you pay with. This means that they may have 10-30% higher prices on books than European or US amazon stores, but I am yet to see any book where amazon was cheaper after the shipping was added in. (Have to add, amazon marketplace is still excellent in this regard.)
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yeah, they usually do that. and that is probably the reason why most shops are always a few euros above the mindfactory prices. the way i see it, while other shops always integrate paypal and other fees in their prices, mindfactory makes it an optional cost, which is an advantage if i choose another payment option. so for me personally this sounds fine. i still wonder if this is (somehow) completely legit regarding the paypal terms.
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i have to say, i am still very fine with it personally if i compare mindfactory prices to most other shops. while this seems to violate paypal terms, it's still the better deal for us customers in many cases.
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that can't be completely true. for instance, i read this morning about how credit card fees may be added, as long as you also provide other payment options. so while it is restricted, it doesn't seem to be completely prohibited. i have to do some actual work here at work now (xD), but maybe i'll try to find that article again later.
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regarding shield: let me ask you this question again. do you think a marketplace provider has full responsibility and has to offer full refunds instead of the actual seller?
Yes,in case you get scammed they should either give you the amount of money you got scammed for as site only money OR give back to you what they profited but not the money the scammer got... but nothing at all? really?
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sorry, to me that makes absolutely no sense. you demand to get the transaction fee they charged, just because you think it's so unfair that they earn money with such a transaction. how does that make any sense for a customer? a customer is interested in getting the money he paid back. a customer would never ask for the transaction fee. from his point of view that doesn't make sense. i mean, did you ever buy something on ebay and then demanded to get the 9% ebay charged? ^^ i get the feeling you say that because you don't want G2A to get anything out of an actual scam. but from a customer's perspective that doesn't make too much sense, in my opinion.
i can understand that customers want refunds if something goes wrong. i want that, too. i just don't see how we can make a marketplace provider fully responsible for every single transaction that takes place on this marketplace. i don't think that's reasonable. let's say you see someone selling a phone in the newspaper. you pay for it, but the guy doesn't send it to you. what do you do? do you sue the newspaper (=marketplace) to get your money back?
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let's say you see someone selling a phone in the newspaper. you pay for it, but the guy doesn't send it to you. what do you do? do you sue the newspaper (=marketplace) to get your money back?
Let me make a new example about how i see it... i enter a store , there is a guy selling stuff in there and the owner knows it... i buy a clock from him and after i bought the clock they take it away from me saying it was stolen.... why wouldn't I be mad at the shop owner for hosting a guy that steals stuff and re-sells it? There is no identity check like in kinguin,everybody is just let in the site like it's nothing.
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well, to correct your example: the shop owner doesn't yet know that the guy is a scammer. so the first time you can't really blame him. if you report him to the shop owner, and he then doesn't do anything about it - then yes, he is a dick and should be held responsible. but you can't blame the owner for any stolen goods, just because he allowed people so sell stuff in his shop. he didn't know the stuff was stolen.
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how would you suggest he does that? that's the thing. G2A cannot test the keys other people upload. there is simply no way. so the only thing they can do is to act after customers have reported someone. i really don't see another solution (other than stopping business completely ^^). it's the same here on SG. scammers can come and scam people. and after we give them bad feedback and report them, they eventually get banned. SG has no possibility to distinguish a good from a bad trader, other than to rely on user reports.
the question, i think, is if G2A does enough to ban scammers. i read they already check personal data and want to do more of that. and i assume they don't just ban accounts, they also ban the related paypal and bank accounts, so those people cannot make a new account that easy. if they don't do that - then yes, we can criticise them for that. but i think it's not completely fair to demand that they prevent scammers from getting on the platform in the first place, if there is (as i see it) no way to do that.
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They can do as kinguin does and make every people that wanna sell keys register as a shop... if they are not a shop they can't sell ...
not completely true. kinguin has community offers for quite a while now. everyone can sell their without any validation. i sell my bundle games there regularly.
either that or g2a asks for documents of the seller + key origin page.
yeah, but that still doesn't help you validate keys. i mean, a guy could provide some documents that prove where he bought the keys. but if he bought those with a stolen cc and they get revoked a few weeks later, the documents didn't really help.
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a guy could provide some documents that prove where he bought the keys. but if he bought those with a stolen cc and they get revoked a few weeks later, the documents didn't really help.
Then G2A could pursue legal actions / make us purse legal action giving us those datas.
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i would imagine they couldn't just give us data. i guess in detail only a lawyer can say how exactly G2A can act or not.
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How can they be legit when the publishers say they're not. Even if they obtain keys legally, that doesn't automatically give them the right to resell the keys, it's not their property. They might not be illegal, but they're far from legit.
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you buy games from traders here on SG. how is that any more legit?
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When you put it like that, there really is no difference.
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I suppose that one difference is that here you see who you are dealing with - on G2A you cannot be certain - thus the chain we are all dealing with becomes a little murkier when purchasing on G2A - that assumes that we trust people more on SG than on G2A - which I hope we can (but I may be too trusting as a person overall :)
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http://blog.indiegamestand.com/featured-articles/steam-key-reselling-killing-little-guys/
I'll just leave this here.
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That's absolute lying bullshit. Explain to me HOW is it possible to STEAL virtual keys when TinyBuild is the only one with an access to the Steam Developper key generator?
G2A keys, for what it's worth, can only be obtained either through Steam gifts you get from the developers, from bundles to which the developers sold keys or through giveaways the developers created.
This is mechanically impossible, instead Indie or other Game Studios are greedy crying little bitches with the same argument as "musicians" on streaming platform: they are crying that their overpriced products is not getting them all the money they would never be getting anyway from people reselling keys they acquired LEGALLY.
This is not piracy, this is not an illegal copy, these are (obviously) LEGIT keys that the developers generated, sold through Steam or Bundles, and what irks them is that some people found a market by reselling them to MILLIONS of people willings to pay a FAIR or better price that what is on Steam or other overpriced store. This has always existed, it's called second-hand market, and guess what, this is legal and also exist on the internet, even though it comes with problems.
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Card fraud, which to my experience and tons of people's concerns 1 out of 200 transactions?
Oh and Square-Enix has since apologised and offered me a bundle, which didn't change my point one bit, since it was indeed illegal and all I had to do is ask our lawyer for proper law recall wording in french.
How's that stooge syndrome cocksucking going? http://rabble.ca/babble/babble-banter/stooge-syndrome
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That's absolute lying bullshit. Explain to me HOW is it possible to STEAL virtual keys when TinyBuild is the only one with an access to the Steam Developper key generator?
you steal a credit card, pay the game, get the key and sell the key on G2A. that's not impossible at all. i am generally in favor of "grey market sites", but most of what you wrote is really just BS. ^^
also 1 out of 200 is extremely exaggerated. if the rate was even close to that, G2A would not be in the business anymore.
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i don't think you understand what i said. 1 out of 200 is extremely exaggerated. the rate is way lower. if it was really 0.5%, that would mean we have many scams there every day. and i don't believe that. because we hear something about it in the press every few months. not every day. if it was really 0.5%, G2A would be out of business already. it it way less.
also, your personal experience is - surprise! - a personal experience and therefore relatively uninteressting. it doesn't have any real value in this matter. we need actual numbers. personal experience doesn't provide that. that is why in science personal experience is the lowest possible form of proof and usually gets ignored completely.
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Some of the " The final station" steam keys in g2a.com got deactived by tinybuild for being ..guess what... stolen !
Source
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