Did the HB Monthly price increase for you?
I cannot be sure about the reason behind their move but it was done silently and lots of people would have been affected without even knowing about it. So it's a crappy move, regardless of their reasons. Btw, congrats for being the exception ;).
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They have been obliged to pay vat on EU sales since forever and I'm pretty sure they did - only now they got that idea that maybe nobody will notice if they increase their bundle prices (only monthly for now - surely just to see the reactions before going full on) using vat as an excuse.
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Well, they can kiss goodbye my money for this month's bundle. I'm not gonna buy it anymore. I already had everything but that game so I'm not gonna pay more just to get that. Plus, their silent overcharge bothers me a lot.
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Dunno if it's IGN or not, but it certainly smells corporate-ly. But as I said, they cannot charge vat using the same model as US's sales tax. They simply can't.
Random link: https://blog.taxjar.com/european-vat-us-ecommerce-sellers/
"Unlike the USA where sales tax is added after the sale, in Europe, VAT should always be included in the price shown to consumers."
Even if they had a different price for the EU (like in hb store or steam store), they cannot conceivably charge UltraMaster $14.28 while charging me $14.76. I have a feeling they will soon learn that the hard way...
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Yep exactly, taxes should always be included in the price shown and good luck humble raising the monthly base price.
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And then they will charge 20 euros as they were asking some days ago and after that who know maybe they will increase the price even more as long as people are okay with it and keep buying their bundles. The only reason that humble bundle is selling so many keys and bundles is because its much more affordable than buying from steam store.
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that is the glorious thing about buying items, if the price is higher then you're willing to pay don't buy it.. In all honesty 12 - 15 dollars is a tremendous price for the included items.. If enough people unsub from the EU maybe Humble will change their policy, or at the least be transparent with the new cost.. What I see is people who have been getting a discount, no longer getting that discount. At the very least Humble should have been up front and honest about no longer paying the Vat fee for the customers affected.. I wonder if people were told about the price, but in that small print nobody ever bothers to read, also don't you check the price when you're paying through paypal (assuming you do) and see that it increased over the regular 12 dollar one?
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Thankfully enough people found out about it and cancelled their subscriptions and guess what, it was just a "bug".
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You know it is something called ethics and laws in CS ... a course that I got 10 aka A+ in my E - business masters degree and this shit is illegal and bad business so ... !
As a result it became a "BUG" as they call it FFS ... really gullible some customers here :( !
They can try but it will fail 100% !
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Fanatical here i come. In the end monopoly was always bad for customers.
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Fanatical has VAT already included in the price listings. What HB is doing that's illegal is having the price listed without VAT and then adding it at checkout.
Edit: not to mention I don't think they've informed about the price change to subscribers (I haven't, at least).
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You're welcome. Quite a crappy underhanded move from them. I expected better.
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Well, I checked my inbox and spam folders and there's no notice of this so this time it seems to be an underhanded move from them.
Lots of people wouldn't have even noticed the change since it was silently applied. Btw, I wasn't aware in the US HB was charging sales tax. Were the prices already higher for HB bundles? [Btw, I'm from EU]
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not as far as I know... still no sale tax for me in the U.S
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I wasn't aware of any either. Maybe it was applied only in some states.
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no I have received no notice, and without understanding if they are VAT registered and if so how the monies are to be handled and transferred to the respective authorities, this is probably illegal under EU laws - without express notice allowing people the change to remove themselves from a service that dramatically alters its price and thus its T&C's :( made me sad as I was thinking about buying this monthly - but perhaps not now :(
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they did? I don't see a sale tax charge in the U.S now or before.
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I wasn't really interested in the games this month, but figured yeah why not go for it. Now I'm not going for it :)
2.48$ extra for me isn't that much, but since these are not must have games then I will skip
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(I think) I can confirm that in Argentina (South America) it's not implemented yet. But I've read that my country will start to charge VAT (IVA) any time soon to any online transaction, being Netflix or Steam (we don't have this currently).
This is on private browser, not logged in.
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Check the price in incognito mode and see if you get the tax applied today.
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Guess a little less presents for me and my friends then :/
I worked in retail 10 years and Consumer Protection Law in Bulgaria, states that the final price must include VAT. Will have a chat with my lawyer friends and maybe push the news up the television that I work for now :D
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Never noticed any sales tax here in NY, will let you know if that changes
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Indeed. Also I bet it'll appear in another bundle after a while. Not worth paying for an entire bundle just for that.
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jak napisałem, to kwestia komba sytuacji - nie chodzi tylko o nieuzasadnione wywalenie Mafii z bundle dla polaków (gra nie jest w żaden sposób niedostępna w Polsce, dokładnie tak jak piszesz), chodzi o nieuzasadnione obcinanie contentu (bywa uzasadnione, jak gra w jakimś kraju niedostępna, tutaj ewidentnie inaczej, obcięli na zlecenie publishera), niezgodną z prawem europejskim fałszywą reklamę (reklamowana cena nie uwzględniająca podatku), kwestia ostatniej ankiety IGN i tego dokąd HB monthly zmierza (pisałem o tym tutaj, tl;dr jak podnieść cenę oferując jednocześnie mniejszą wartość contentu ), karygodny spadek jakości Humble Support o którym miałem ostatnio nieprzyjemność przekonać się na własnej skórze (namówiłem szwagra do zapisania się na monthly przez mój referral, żeby dostać to 8$, po dwóch tygodniach 8$ zniknęło z konta, Humble w odpowiedzi stwierdziło że uznali to za moje alternatywne konto, bo kiedyś logowałem się z tego adresu IP co on na moje własne konto - tak, logowałem się, bo wchodziłem u teściów, nie zmienia to postaci rzeczy, że podpięta przez szwagra płatność jest na zupełnie inną osobę z innym imieniem, nazwiskiem i adresem, innym PayPalem z podpiętą inną kartą kredytową, a u teściów na humbla logowałem się ostatnio ponad pół roku temu). To jest teraz ta przysłowiowa kropla, która przepełniła czarę goryczy czy z angielskiego 'straw that broke the camel's back'. Zwyczajnie nie zamierzam dalej wspierać firmy, która nie tylko zaczęła zachowywać się bardzo antykonsumencko, dzielić swoich klientów na lepszych i gorszych na zlecenie publisherów, sama zaczęła dla własnego widzimisię ignorować swoje własne TOS (casus mojej rozmowy z supportem, którą można podsumować 'jak ci się nie podoba i będziesz dalej męczył dupę to oprócz znikającego z walleta 8$ zabierzemy ci wszystkie inne pieniądze z walleta' - to mi de facto powiedziano, mimo że w wallecie oprócz 2 refferali mam środki za zakupy w Humble Store czy bonusy za zakup Tier 3 innych bundli co dodawali po 2$, to i tak 'be aware that if you continue all of your wallet funds may be cancelled'), to teraz jeszcze zaczęła jawnie łamać europejskie prawo handlowe. To dla mnie dość. Zaoszczędzenie paru dolców nie jest warte robienia z siebie szmaty, firma która tak traktuje swoich klientów pieniędzy ode mnie nie dostanie, już wolę pozwolić jakiemuś trejderowi zarobić na mnie te 1-3$ i jakiś tytuł (tytuły) który mnie interesuje od niego odkupić.
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They are actually breaking several EU laws (at least two I am aware of), which I pointed out in 'Other reason' section when I unsubscribed. You cannot change price of subscription during subscription period without prior notice, like you said, but also you are not allowed to show prices without taxes and just add taxes at checkout, VAT tax MUST be included in advertised price. So they are not allowed to advertise it as 12$ per X games, they are bound by law to dosclose final price including taxes (not including shipment, but as it's digital it's not viable here) in initial offer.
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I don't see it added in their store. Only for the monthly bundle.
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Store prices for EU are in EUR/GBP etc. so they already silently added VAT there (e.g. 29,99 eur vs 29,99 usd), just like steam - and that's actually ok (read: legal). Regular bundles don't seem to see any changes (yet? pretty sure it's a matter of time). So only a hb monthly test-run.
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People would be in here crying if Humble Bundle raised the base price to reflect local taxes just the same as you're crying about them "underhandedly" adding the tax on during checkout.
If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at your governments which legislate these taxes and create all of the programs that these taxes fund. Or be mad at all the people that agitate for such programs. Humble Bundle is just following the law as best they can (possibly with the mistake of adding tax at checkout, probably due to being an American company) like any other business does.
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as you're crying about them "underhandedly" adding the tax on during checkout.
LOL, I'm not crying. Let's be serious. I'm just not going to buy the bundle anymore only for one game.
If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at your governments which legislate these taxes
As it has been shown in other comments this is not how VAT is applied and Humble was just being a dick silently making money out of genuine unaware buyers. There's no need to cover it for them by shifting the blame onto the governments.
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Nice try, but it's not like they started to collect vat today, they've been collecting it all the time, now they merely try to raise the prices by charging more under the nickname of "sales tax". But this will not go through in the EU, mark my words.
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Are you sure? Do you have proof they have been obligated to pay tax in the past in the EU (or wherever these new taxes are showing up)?
And if so, they were essentially giving those regions a discount up to this point (since tax payments were coming out of Humble Bundle's profit for each sale). That is a courtesy they apparently did not feel they could afford to extend any longer. At the end of the day, the price differential between EU and other regions is due to sales tax, not profiteering on Humble Bundle's part.
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https://support.humblebundle.com/hc/en-us/articles/202742190-Widget-Developer-FAQ
"VAT is deducted based upon the country the customer resides in, using the applicable rate. We pay VAT in the following countries: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and United Kingdom."
If they're registered for VAT, that means everything they sell to EU has VAT calculated in the price. Moreover, the price has to be the same for consumers from all EU countries, they ought to calculate vat from the gross price, not add it on top.
Some more details: https://www.export.gov/article?id=European-Union-How-the-EU-s-Value-Added-Tax-VAT-Impacts-U-S-Exports-2016 - see esp. section IV. Also note that the big change for companies exporting to EU occurred on Jan 1st 2015 - "all supplies of telecommunications, broadcasting and electronic services are taxable at the place where the customer is located" - which means anyone selling to EU citizens had to register for vat purposes in one of EU countries in order to continue selling. Notably, HB switched store prices to EUR/GBP (raising them in the process) in 2014, so there you have it, they've been handling vat for the last four years at least. The reason they didn't do regional pricing on bundles up until now? Dunno, maybe they knew it would cost them a sweet share of customers? And now IGN wants to try it anyway?
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I can't find anything preventing them from adding VAT at checkout. From what I could find the VAT only has to be included in the total price before you pay. As for requiring the price to be the same for consumers in all EU countries, it seems that you cannot discriminate based on a consumers country. You can however charge different amounts if your cost are different. Though I only briefly looked over EU and UK sources, both of which noted it varies from country to country just like the VAT rate does.
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Not at all. I addressed the situation whereby they were already collecting VAT in the second half of my post.
Humble Bundle chose to extend a courtesy to EU by charging them less than other countries (because they were eating the tax payment themselves). It's quite possible that there was little or no profit left in those transactions (since retail sales' profit margins already tend to be quite thin).
So, now they are charging everyone the same, with EU having to pay more because of taxes which were previously covered as a courtesy by Humble Bundle.
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not mad at them collecting taxes - mad at them for not telling me they are going to raise the price to collect the tax and thus allowing me time to unsubscribe - I have received NOo notice from them - as required by EU law - also it is law in the EU that checkout prices, where tax is to be collected, must include the tax on the price at point of sale and not tacked onto a sale afterwards at checkout! AS such, they are breaking the law in the EU saying that the bundle is $12 - it isn't it is whatever the price is plus tax which has to be stated by law
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This must be new. I didn't see it when I attempted my purchase. But to be honest, it's such a small reference that it can be overlooked if you're not actively looking for it specifically.
Edit: I'm still not seeing the tax reference like in your picture. I think they just added it and it takes time until the change goes through to everyone.
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Yeah. I could understand if they, for example, intended to inform their customers within the next few days and enabled those new taxes too early on accident or something like that (I mean, at the end of the month seems a bit weird and not like "just following law"). But hiding this info like that clearly seems... deliberate.
Edit: Maybe because I already bought the current bundle? I see it on this page.
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A lot of prices are not increased by the full tax amount. So say 2 euro tax and 13 euro subscription would become 14 euro total or something. So the consumer pays more, but not the entire amount usually. Thus far I have only seen American companies charge the full VAT to the customer.
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an increasing number of places online (as they come into compliance with your country's laws).
Not how it works. Just because something is done some way in the USA (online sales tax) does not mean it works that way globally (EU VAT or whatever else).
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This is retarded like 12$ = 12 EUR = 12 Pouds just because fuck logic :( !
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Update 2: Price reverted to the original value.
No official post yet, but the pricing got reverted to the original value of $12 without any additional tax. Credits to MakiSan for reporting it. I checked it as well and no other taxes are being displayed during checkout. I don't know if that applies to everyone just yet but I think it will after a while. I'll let the thread open for discussion.
I wish to congratulate everyone that took a stand against this A/B testing scenario. Oops, I meant "bug" (albeit fine tuned and elaborate, yet still a "bug" :)). I consider this thread a success in showing the power of consumer over the provider and not the other way around. Good job, everyone!
Update 1: Humble Bundle's Support reacts and says it's a "bug" and they're working on it
Link to their tweet. (Credits to LuckyME for pointing out Humble's response).
Confirmed by users - Sales Tax was added by Humble Bundle for many countries, leading to a price increase of the Humble Monthly bundle with various amounts.
I was interested in "GOD EATER 2 Rage Burst" and was planning on getting the bundle but, guess what, Humble Bundle wants me to pay $14.28 for the monthly bundle. They introduced a Sales Tax that I never had to pay before.
So, for those interested in the Monthly, be careful and have a look over the subscription price and double check you're not being overcharged because it can very easily pass unnoticed.
I moved the thread to the "Deals" section because it affects the Humble Monthly bundle.
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