You wrote "6 Games Only : $1.99", should be 9 games :D
actually ... maybe not wrote, but copy/pasted :P
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actually ... maybe not wrote, but copy/pasted :P
Yep, I forgot to modify that one (I did change the rest, though).
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So Reptilians must die game has been made by Russians.
Game logo is : Game title overlay "Reptilians must die" and a meteorite crashing into US flag as background...
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2.99 + 1.99 + 1.99 + 2.99 + 2.99 + 1.99 + 2.99 + 2.99 + 2.99 =
23.91 USD Retail price
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Think I'll pass, otakumaker Greenlights have not been a huge success for me.
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Oh my gosh. Some of these names are so amazing. "The Wizards Who Fell In A Hole" and "Tourists Kidnapped a Little Bear" especially. If there was some guarantee about them being good games, I'd get them instantly just for their names. >.> As it is... Well, I'll think about it. =P (Incidentally, I misread the latter at first and thought it said "Tourists Kidnapped by a Little Bear," which would have been even more amusing.)
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PS: I forgot to make a poll. Sorry MilleW (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻
Again??? xD Sigh! It's okay! =)
But idk, I still didn't purchase a bundle from otakumaker before, so I'll just skip again. :x
Also, maybe take away the cards column in the chart, just to make it a little bit cleaner to look at. =) And maybe only choose the most relevant genres and not all of them. Just a suggestion.
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In this particular bundle all games will have trading cards, I think it's interesting to know that. I'd remove the "RELEASE DATE" column instead, because I don't know where to find that info, and I'm not sure it would be accurate anyway (many GL games aren't released when expected -others aren't released at all-). Regarding the most relevant genres, I thought about that but I didn't know what to choose? What does make sense? Should I keep just the 2-3 genres listed first ("Action, Adventure, Strategy, Simulation, Platformer, Puzzle, Arcade" -> "Action, Adventure")?
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Oh, I see. :o Still weird to say that since the cards + badge will have to get approved by Valve later on. But cool that they already know they will add cards. :)
Well, when you look at the greenlight page for each game, it sometimes says the release dates. :) Though only ~half of the games in this bundle have written anything, which is just '2016' in release dates, so in this case I'd rather just delete the release date column then :p
Well, I normally look through the trailers, and look at the genres they tagged and take the 2-3 most accurate ones imo. =)
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If the games are made precisely for them to have cards...
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Since they are Greenlight games, just use the sensible ones: RPGMaker, Unity Asset Flip, CryEngine Asset Flip, pixelart platformer, Simulator Simulator, weird Russian VN, weird non-Russian VN, cheap mobile game port…
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How long does it normally take to receive bundles from OtakuMaker?
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So there's no itch.io or DRM download of the game?
Basically there's a way that you won't receive the game at all?
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No itch.io or DRM download... but, I do not want them.
Once in a while, I get an email from Otakumaker with a key from one of my greenlight bundles. I always got the key except one time, a dev didn't gave his keys to all the greenlight bundle he was in and Otakumaker gave me another key from another game.
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Your chart says $1.49 but up above you say it's $1.99 :X
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Aaaarg, mistakes, mistakes. Thanks for pointing that out!
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It seems that the developer of Mechdefender has a problem with OtakuMaker. I'm not sure if he's implying that he didn't get paid ("And, no, I didn't get any 'real money'") or that he expected to get rich ("It is around 4 cents per copy"), but I'd appreciate if you guys could do something about it.
P.S.: Also waiting for the Steam keys for Detective Noir, Casino Noir and Missileman Origins to be delivered. I might be forgetting other games, though. Those are the ones that come to mind right now.
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Bump for the developer of Mechdefender being a moron and not so fond of giving keys to the purchasers of this bundle... And here we go again...
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Most probably, with more and more devs/publishers doing such shady stuff with bundle sites, it would be most helpful if Steam drowned in reports ... hopefully then they would feel compelled to take action. (It does hurt Steam's own reputation, too!)
I've reported this one. For anyone wanting to do the same: As far as I know, the only way to really contact steam support is via support -> my account -> steam guard ... that's what I did. If anyone wants to try, too ... could be really helpful to get devs/publishers banned for such kind of behaviour.
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The answer he gave you on that thread was impressive. But I must admit he has a point when it comes to the reason why he won't send us the Steam keys, I think we should understand him and just forget this whole thing. After all, there's no way we can refute his logic:
"I changed my mind when checked stats for my previus games."
Yep, that's now all it takes to back up from a promise or a contract. You just have to change your mind. Un-f^cking-believable...
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My biggest problem is that If I`ll sent you keys - that will ruin me. I do not want it. So, ways out of this situation - is to refund(1) your money or sent you keys for my other games(2) or to sent them after release(3).
How exactly would it ruin him? The people that want the keys are unlikely to buy them at the full price, they aren't likely to leave reviews because most would be buying for card farming or to +1 their library. If anything it just means he would make more money due to the sale of cards!
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Doesnt sent keys to the people who voted for the game on Greenlight. Really smart....
This will ruin him anyway. But with delivering as promised he will still have a clean name and income through card sales.
This guy just doesnt understand he's f***ing the people who got his game on Steam in the 1st place.
Maybe think twice with your next game?
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he added many of his games in other otaku greenlight bundles too. propably all of them are greenlit now. it's just happened to "changed his mind" now. nothing strange imo.
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I think he wants game feedback, this is why the stuff is now in early access. If it is a tower defence game, especially with mixed genres, it should be a bitch to balance properly.
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But how will it ruin him to give out the keys? If he gives them out and no one reviews it then at least he's made the $0.04/copy from people who otherwise wouldn't have bought his game, plus marketplace fees on the items those people sell. If any of those people choose to leave a review then he gets the reviews he wants, if he doesn't release the keys then all he gets is bad press.
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Not saying he is right, but based on his messages, this seems to be the case. Never have I seen a dev so desperate for feedback. If I would still care about tower defence games, I might actually give it to him. But the entire zombie aspect also makes me care not so much…
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If he wants feedback then he should give me a key. I'll happy play the game and give him some honest feedback about the game, but I didn't buy the bundle.
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Sure. Since I`m first time here - how to gift you a key here?
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It will ruin me - since other ppl will buy it not from steam, but from re-sellers. So when I`ll get a a few cents, some else will profit from it.
It already happened with a game before. There was a not way to predict a future. But since I have a few games - I can learn from my mistakes.
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You should learn from this mistake then and just send the keys to Otakumaker. I think you're trying to make a stand here and it's really just not worth the terrible fallout you will receive once you become branded as a developer who just decides to break contract because they've changed their mind.
Not that it should matter but I did not purchase this bundle, I have no personal interest in this. You say you've been doing this for 10 years, well I'd hate for you to lose your career over something as small as 1700 keys. Learn from this and stop working with bundles in the future if the terms are not to your satisfaction. Breaking contract is not the way to go about things
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Mistake was to sent the keys.
You have to be clear - my english is not perfect.
You do care or you do not? If you do not - then why you would hate? If you do - why? =)
As I said - if you guys will not buy my games in bundles - it is ok. I already calculated that and accepted my faith.
More over - some of users already used old keys(that I sent) - to write negative reviews. That just proves my point - That my mistake was to sent the keys. But I not gonna revoke it.
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what they mean by that is they did not personally purchase the bundle that would receive a key even if you delivered them. so their opinion is not influenced one way or the other because they won't receive anything either way.
i too did not purchase the bundle that was supposed to come with this game in question, and agree with kataztrphik. the backlash and hate you will undoubtedly receive from such a decision is not worth it. it's better to satisfy customers so that in the future they will be more likely to purchase more titles from you.
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I did not purchase the bundle, so whether you send the keys or not will not impact me. I am not hating, in fact, I am trying to offer you some friendly advice. I am telling you that not sending the keys is a much bigger mistake. Yes, perhaps a small percentage of those keys end up being resold. An even smaller percentage of those keys that were resold may have been to people who would have otherwise bought your game at full price. That is a very small price compared to the potential backlash you face from not delivering these keys.
You seem like a developer who cares about his games and wants people to play them. A developer who keeps updating and supporting his game. That's great, we need more developers like that. However, breaching contract will very quickly lose you any goodwill you may have earned with the gaming community and will have long lasting implications far past this one game.
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I can bet you never heard of me before. There is no goodwill or long lasting implications. And you will forget me soon - under new breaking news about other AAA developers and publishers.
I do love my games, I do love my players. I develop games for them.
I accidentally get into free-cheap-keys-bundle community. Nobody told me about it. I just discovered it now.
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You are right, I have never heard of you before this. My only impression of you is from this thread and the Steam Community forum. Needless to say, it's not a very good impression thus far.
I can't force you to heed my advice, nor will you be able to convince me that sending the keys is a mistake. I can only wish you the best of luck in the future.
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I can bet you never heard of me before. There is no goodwill or long lasting implications. And you will forget me soon - under new breaking news about other AAA developers and publishers.
quite fascinating, badim (of EliteGamesNet and the creator / developer / publisher of MechDefender | Conflict Craft | Royal Heroes | Royal Offense | Royal Games and a whole lot of schadenfreude)
💋
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If thats his reason there are better ways than a random Greenlight bundle.
It happens so often that these one-guy-developers get into trouble. Excellent at creating games, terrible at PR and marketing.
Sad really, putting so many hours in your project and then get labelled as fraud because you werent thinking straight and made a bad decision. We bundle bundle buyers arent a tough crowd, but when something is promised you better keep it. I'm not gonna complain or report though, I find that a little too harsh and frankly I dont really care, but there are plenty who are looking to destroy him.
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Yep, this is why I think that this "indie" craze is overdoing it. Small publishers exist for a reason. Yes, many in the casual scene are predators, but the whole marketing and publishing part can be a nightmare…
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You are correct. But nowadays small publishers are quite bad. Im considering my self a small publisher - and Im not good. But still better then publishers without own games.
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You are not. You are self-publishing. By small publisher, I meant companies like Buka Entertainment or Nova games (to give you Russian examples), who will gladly take over the publishing work of small indie/casual games, so they can focus on game development. The downside is that many small publishing firms focused on indie developers are predators and exploit/cheat them (just look up Xing Interactive or Crystal Interactive).
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I do publish games from other devs =) Not last year, but - yes.
I think I know more cases of a bad publishers - not just from news.
I work as a "indie" for around 10 years.
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Well, one doesn't need to be a genius to understand that if you pull out of a deal, refuse to deliver your part of the deal after cashing in, and offer a ridiculous refund in exchange (refunding 4c would damage him even more, because of transaction costs, while it won't cover the expenses of people who paid for the full bundle, about 20-25c per game if we split even), you will get hammered so badly by the community that you won't recover, ever, as a game developer (see how it worked out for Digital Homicide).
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You are right.
I did posted my calcs for my decision:
Whole bundle in theory did a 80$ for MechDefender for 1500+ copies.
Every card traded gives a developer less then a cent(less then a half cent in "big" numbers).
As a developer I would get additional 1500 4 0.005 = $30 from cards, in addition to $80 from bundle.
So I did lost a 110$. I didnt realize how much farmers would lost - what is why so much hate. It just $ driven.
And a Digital Homicide(First time i heard bout them - just googled =) - is a different case.
This one, for example, is "hidden". I finally was able to google this thread just now, no one from steam group was not sharing it.
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Seeing the way he 'argues' about his decision here... It's sad to see how little he thinks about the people that should be supporting his games (that is if it isn't simply a money laundering thing...). He must really think that we are just a bunch or retards that he can convince (?) that what he's doing is at least morally right.
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The last time a dev bailed out of an OtakuMaker bundle (for Klabi in Greenlight Bundle #2), OtakuMaker provided free keys for Hit Thank PRO as a replacement. I'd imagine if the dev for MechDefender persists not to give away keys, OtakuMaker will likely offer a similar replacement, though it will likely be another rebundled title from their collection of games that they've published on Steam.
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Well, I guess that if pull that trick again anger from customers will be redirected from the developer to OtakuMaker. The dev of Klabi (although being another moron) couldn't be contacted by OtakuMaker after lots of tries, so they decided to replace the game.
The dev of MechDefender has shown that not only he is available for contact, but also that he just doesn't want to give the keys because "he changed his mind". If this guy gets his own way, I'd blame OtakuMaker.
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Since you one who started this thread - arent you OtakuMaker?
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Since you one who started this thread - arent you OtakuMaker?
No, devotee is not. This isn't Reddit. There are very few official reps posting here regularly.
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ThreadMaker =/= OtakuMaker :P
welcome to the site though ^^
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Tnx =)
Maybe he is not same person, but I think he is affiliated with Otaku.
Actually - I`m sure. Since he is aware of our discussions with Otaku.
So maybe there is another public topic where Otaku is talking?
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i promise that devotee is in no way affiliated with otaku. they simply followed twitter & facebook feeds questions & answers. =)
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I did found only re-posts and stuff - not public discussions.
I did struggle to find this thread. Are there others? I would love to check out them as well.
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To anyone reading, welcome Badim, the developer of MechDefender and Royal Offense.
I'm sorry but it seems clear that I don't have to explain anything to you (hint: read other people's comments).
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Nah, its ok. I know how to read.
Do you know any other topics like this one? About my games? =)
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Not that I know of, just the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 thread. But we can make other threads specifically about you as a developer failing to deliver what was promised if you want. You'd certainly gain a lot of fans.
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Yes, Plz do that.
I dont wanna give out my games for few cents. Spread the word.
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The developer of MechDefender is definitely a moron, it will be hard to receive keys for that game if we ever get to see those. He is willing to refund the buyers with $0.04, though (lol).
Not only that, but he's also backing out from sending the keys for "Royal Offense", from the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9. I made a discussion thread anyway, even if it's just to annoy the guy...
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Good read. That Dev is digging himself a nice hole there.
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Is he a kid born yesterday, or just playing one?
"Your assumption is incorrect about me. I had not idea about GL bundles - before I put my games there. I had not clear vision till I released a game and researched data. Keeping me in blind - is a important moment. (Again - I work alone, so I have my focus)."
For how long he was bundling his games? For over a year?
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Real answer - is never. I were just sending keys to Otaku. And he was sending some money from them ALONG with money from couple of other games. Numbers were quate low, so I didnt bothered. At certain time I checked and researched - where keys going and how they affecting conflictcraft.
So, yes, you can blame me for not caring where 80$ came from. But when they stackup - I did checked.
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So basically :
-
you sold thousands of your products on Otaku with no agreement on price earlier
-
you are not happy with money you make on Otaku
-
you intentionally put your Greenlight games in Greenlight bundles to pass Greenlight, without any knowledge how GL bundle works
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you refuse to give out steam keys to Grenlight bundle buyers because they can do anything with those keys
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you intentionally added steam cards to your games
-
you are not happy because people can do anything with their cards
-
your game passed Greenlight thanks to steam community and you do not owe anything to anyone
Do I get it right?
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1 - yes
2 - yes
3 - yes, no, no
4 - not anything - reselling them is my concern is a major loophole
5 - ofc. you cant put game on steam without cards - that is retarded. only if your engine dosent support that =(
6 - idk
7 - weird statements
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what they mean on "7 - weird statements" is..
greenlight bundles such as the one that promoted your game are just that. it's a promotion to show off greenlight games in order to get them the votes required to pass thru greenlights system. by having your game inside of a greenlight bundle, it practically automatically pushes the game thru the greenlight system because people just want what they paid for, regardless of the quality of the game in question. now that the game has been pushed thru the system, by backing out of sending the keys to purchasers of the bundle, you're pretty much thanking the people that pushed your game thru the greenlight system with a giant middle finger.
tl;dr = otaku promoted your game to the point it passed greenlight while paying you so they could promote it, and your thank you for passing greenlight is a middle finger.
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People can do anything with steam keys for your games. They may activate them, give them away, resell, or just delete them.
So you may stop concerning about it, waste of time.
You have NO CONTROL over other people and what they do with those keys.
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3 - yes, no, no
According to the steam discussion, it's a "yes, yes" and you carefully kept silence on the subject until your games were greenlit. The timeline contradicts almost all your claims about being unfamiliar with how Greenlight bundles work and taking advantage of the votes you got from being featured in those bundles:
20160126 OKM Bundle Greenlight #2 starts (Royal Heroes, Control Craft 2)
20160201 Royal Heroes is published on Steam (Badim / Badim)
20160215 Control Craft 2 is published on Steam (Elite Games Ltd / OtakuMaker.com)
20160316 OKM Bundle Greenlight #2 ends
20160426 OKM Bundle Greenlight #4 starts (Conflict Craft)
20160426 OKM Bundle Greenlight #4 ends
20160531 OKM Greenlight Bundle #5 starts (Control Craft 3)
20160726 OKM Greenlight Bundle #5 ends
20161019 OKM Bundle Greenlight #7 starts (MechDefender)
20161208 ConflictCraft is published on Steam (Badim / Badim)
20161216 OKM Bundle Greenlight #7 ends
20161230 Control Craft 3 is published on Steam (Elite Games Ltd / OtakuMaker.com)
20170215 OKM Bundle #30 starts (ConflictCraft, Control Craft 3)
20170220 OKM Greenlight #9 starts (Royal Offense)
20170322 MechDefender is published on Steam (Badim / Badim)
20170326 OKM Greenlight #9 ends
20170430 OKM Bundle #30 ends
20170511 Royal Offense is published on Steam (Badim / Badim)
I'm sorry but if your concerns started with ConflictCraft, which was published on 20161208, there's no excuse for allowing ConflictCraft and Control Craft 3 on OKM Bundle #30 (20170215-20170430), or to put Royal Offense on OKM Greenlight #9 (20170220-20170326). On the other hand, once you knew that there were problems with your bundled games, you should have immediately removed them from running bundles (OKM Bundle Greenlight #7, OKM Bundle #30 and OKM Greenlight #9) and you should have deleted their respective Greenlight pages, starting the greenlight process again without biasing it with the upvotes gained with the bundle purchases.
My impression by looking at the timeline is that you knew that your games would be greenlit thanks to the bundle purchases, and that's why you allow them on the bundles in the first time, and why you didn't ask OKM to remove them from the bundles as soon as you noticed you weren't comfortable with how the bundle worked and the profit you were making from them. You also kept the original greenlight pages even if you already knew that you wouldn't give the bundle purchasers the promised Steam keys to avoid losing their votes. You chose to keep your mouth shout about the problem and keep the big surprise for the release date when you would tell everyone that you had "changed your mind". The change of developer/publisher naming is also quite suspicious.
So, once we have established that your concerns with your games being bundled started around early December 2016, how do you explain the rest of events (not taking down MechDefender Greenlight page, publishing Royal Offense on OKM Greenlight #9 and maintaining its Greenlight page until greenlit and Steam release, etc)? And more importantly, why did you keep your mouth shout about your concerns all of this time?5 - ofc. you cant put game on steam without cards - that is retarded. only if your engine dosent support that =(
Wut?
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Can you stop talking nonsense and trolling us? Can you be honest with us?
The time diference between Otaku greenlight #2 which had Royal Heroes and Otaku greenlight #9 which had Royal Offense is over a year. You even had conflictcraft in another non greenlight otaku bundle 2-3 months ago. Stop insulting us. We don't have brain damage.
The ONLY reason that made you decide not giving the promising keys for MechDefender and Royal Offense it's because you think there will be zero consequences for that action. Steam greenlight died and with steam direct you don't need votes/support anymore. You are not a moron even if you are acting like one, you knew that if you made that decision for royal heroes/conflictcraft you will had thousands of downvotes for your other games on greenlight.
You are acting like "da boss" and that you can do now really w/e you want. You blame users for resell/card farming w/e. users with 6k+ games and 12 years accounts and you are telling that even steam have issues with these users. Steam have issues with lamers/scammer developers and all these developers eventually will get a ban for life. If you continue acting like this eventually you will get what you deserve from the real boss, Steam.
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Nah. I have a couple of new games for greenlight, if it will not be closed soon.
I`m honest, lol. I have nothing to hide.
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Oh, fuck. I just noticed what games you have on Greenlight...
Super Sports Surgery: Rugby and Regulator. Super Sports Surgery: Rugby was on OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9, I guess we won't be getting keys for this one either, will we?
EDIT: Oh, and Royal Blacksmith (also on OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9).
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do you have any idea if there is a signed contract between him and otaku?
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I made a thread for Royal Offense too. Everyone should make a thread!
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Good for you.
I`ll delete them ofc - one thread is enough, lol.
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There's no bundle related topic on Royal Offense's discussion boards. As I've told you many times, Royal Offense is a different game that was featured in a different bundle. Purchasers of the Greenlight Bundle #9 don't necessarily know what's happening with the Greenlight Bundle #7. They might not even be the same. So a different discussion on the Royal Offense boards is relevant.
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Did anyone try to bring it up to OtakuMaker? Did they answer? I tried looking around but I didn't find anything about that...
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It might require some patience to explain the situation to them though :D
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He is well aware. I did tell him first, before public.
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I think he is a "devotee". One who started this thread? Or not? Why on earth someone will do it for free on their own?
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Why on earth someone will do it for free on their own?
Because this is a COMMUNITY of gamers who post information on deals TO HELP EACH OTHER.
If you don't understand that, I can't explain it any simpler to you.
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Ok. So "devotee" is helping otaku sell his bundles. For free. As a help to this community.
Then he rallying up hate - as a help to community. For free.
He writing a tons of text here and there. For free.
Nice job - for free, ofc.
This is odd.
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Why? This entire section of the forums is dedicated to game bundles. All bundles posted in the recent years (for all sites like OtakuMaker, Humble Bundle, IndieGala, Bundle Stars, LazyGuys Studios, DailyIndieGame, Groupess, and so on) have their own threads detailing what games are in them, purchase info, and the like. devotee is one of the people who create and maintain these threads.
This is a site made for people to gift keys to total strangers with a lottery system. We have to get our game keys from somewhere, and bundles are usually the most cost-effective source for that.
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Ok. Tnx for explanation.
I get a dozens emails asking for keys for steamgifts groups per game for such groups.
But, if I would run a such bundle-site - I would have to promote it.
And since they do profit, they do spend money/time/keys to promoting it.
That is a real part time job. Topic starters have upper hand in keys and stuff.
And As I mention in other answer - devotee is aware or reading our discussions with Otaku.
He is communicating with Otaku. Does he work with him or just friends or same person - that is beside my interest.
My interests is purely science =) And development ofc.
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You don't have to work with them, small bundle sites are pretty upfront when some buyer asks them where the keys are. Heck, I did my share of smaller investigations into developers and bundles without ever working with anyone. It is not exactly that difficult in this day and age.
As for promotion, these threads are not that. They are helping us, who buy the keys, to determine which bundle is worth buying and which is not. What you refer as promotion is done through other means, like the greenlightupdates newsletter.
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Sure. What you waiting for?
Uh? What are you talking about?
If I were involved with OtakuMaker I can assure you I would do my best to sue your ass.
I can't sue your ass because I'm not involved with OtakuMaker.
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So, why even bother to do it? And stop dreaming about my ass. Lol
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You said on the Steam discussions:
You participated and promoted bundle - that hurting developers like me. You are not a good one in this case.
Saying that I've hurt developers (in plural) now or in the past... Now you're pushing it too far...
I promote a bundle featuring your game for free.
I promote your game each time I make a giveaway for it, and it's not free for me, that actually cost me money because I have bought those games I'm giving away.
You really are on the wrong playfield here, name it Steamgifts, or name it Steam.
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Are you seriously this stupid? (rhetorical, the answer is yes)
No one cares about this because of "4 cents" or your "game," the overwhelming response is all about your behavior. No one is paid to "rally up hate"; no one needs to be. You are more than sufficient at being loathsome all by yourself, which is exactly why you're getting so much attention. In fact, most people involved at this point have no stake in this outside of the personal satisfaction of calling you out for some of the worst behavior ever seen from an amateur game developer on Steam . Hell, even for the ones who do have a stake here, their motivation is limited to whatever cdkeys you've defrauded them of plus that same satisfaction of calling you out for your shit. Your word means nothing to you, and that alone is more than enough reason to despise you. However on top of that you've proven yourself a massive piece of shit willing to exploit people and marginalize them with a bunch of hypocritical, self-centered, and delusional excuses that you are dumb enough to think anyone will accept. You have no understanding of community, honesty, or integrity. You take no responsibility for your own actions or decisions. Your sole understanding of motivation and acting justly comes from an incredibly narrow-minded perspective of immediate personal profit. That is to say: if you're coming from a perspective of absolute self-interest, you're even fucking that up too.
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Funny how butthurt he is. There has to be a contract am I right? I mean he has a limited company, lol..
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Thanks, man :p
You have been banned from MechDefender Discussions by a MechDefender developer for your post in "Keys for bundle buyers?":
"Ignorantia legis non excusat."
Ban Reason:
Liar
Well...
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He has now banned 4 people who commented in that thread.
"Dont read. Reading can hurt you. I didnt signed anything with you. Bay-bay. "
It's also very odd that the dev has deleted every single other thread on his forum EXCEPT the thread about people asking for bundle keys.
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Other threads was just a copy with same people.
I knew you had a topic like this one somewhere.
Would be much easier just to welcome me here.
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Other threads was just a copy with same people.
False. As I already told you on the Steam discussion:
Why do you mean with "no need to spam your topics"? MechDefender and Royal Offense are two different games, with two different Steam communities, and which have been features in two different bundles. I think it's fair and rightful to open a new discussion on the Royal Offense boards to ask what you are going to do with the purchasers of the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9. Not all purchasers of Royal Offense on that bundle will know that they have to come here for information unless they also bought MechDefender on the Greenlight Bundle #7.I opened a thread on the Royal Offense community because it's a different game that was featured in a different bundle. Purchasers of the Greenlight Bundle #9 don't necessarily know what's happening with the Greenlight Bundle #7. They might not even be the same.
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Since we all here.
Is this possible to create a closed shuffle?
Since this week I was planing to giveout bunch of keys for playing/testing.
I think I didnt released card for MechDefender yet. So no point in getting it now if you want only cards.
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Wait a sec, you refuse to give out keys to people who clearly paid for them (even if it seems for an amount you're not approving of) and thus are clearly in breach of contract, but now you wanna give them away for free oO? That's kinda confusing, at best.
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You just summed up what is going on there. Thanks.
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Nobody paid me anything. 1500+ copies for 80$ is a gift. Not a sale.
I do give out free copies of my games. Usually for something - like translation, good joke or when I`m in good mood. Sometimes for press, bloggers, youtubers, streamers, etc.
I found it passionate how you treating your 'four cents'. (Or 'six cents' or 'nine cents'. Your 'cents'.)
I would just give out keys - but it is not like you gonna convince all to behave. I already calculated that and accepted.
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You keep forgetting that Your game made thru Greenlight.
It's the biggest gain for you from Greenlight bundle, not money from this bundle! This is how this works!
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I would say - they only "gain" from bundle.
But game did make it thru greenlight not only tnx to that.
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DID YOU KNOW.... that sometimes things have value, even if you can't touch them or hold them in your hands! DID YOU KNOW.... that transactions can have many components?? DID YOU KNOW... the value of a product or service is not necessarily equivalent to just the nominal value included in those exchanges???
There's a whooole industry where this is relevant called marketing You must be fascinated and surprised that people actually pay money for things that you'd argue (incessantly) provided them no value or payment! In contract law, this clear exchange of value is called consideration
So to correct what you've said that's "nobody paid me anything..." aside from the intangible value provided getting an obviously shitty game past the greenlight process. Also known as the valuable attribute behind these transactions, and one of the primary reasons greenlight games are ever bundled.
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You also promised keys to anybody who had commented on Royal Offense's greenlight page before April, 10 (by the way, I commented on February, 20th because I wanted to support your game and that it was greenlit):
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Yes. And I did sent them.
Exluding you - since you are hostile one. Just get your money back.
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that's so unusual though. you have no issues giving them freely to people, but not to the people that actually paid for and caused it to go thru greenlight.
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Volumes are different. Otaku "sold" thousand of keys.
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for promotional purposes, yes. typically in the real world people have to pay in order to promote, instead you even get paid a small amount in this instance as well as getting it the attention it needed. it's a win win. well, that is until stuff like this is pulled.
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Its not a win-win. It is more like - win-lose-lose-lose-lose.
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well hell yeah it is now. you win cause it got it passed greenlight, lose cause your gonna get backlash, lose cause your gonna get bad reviews, lose cause you wont even get profit from cards.
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I'm not hostile, don't forget you started all this. Not me. I asked nicely on the Steam forums, and you went crazy over there. The first thing I heard from you was "You need this one to mine cards, right?".
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I just asked a simple question. Since - at that I was unaware. It is not crazy to ask things that you dont know.
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"You need this one to mine cards, right?"
That's not a question, that's a statement. Besides that, "mine cards" has a negative connotation. Let me rephrase that for you:
"Do you need this game for its trading cards?"
You're welcome. Don't miss any more English classes!
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But didn't you know exactly how much was you getting per copy BEFORE signing the deal with OtakuMaker? Why did you even accept that? I mean, if someone offers me $10 for my entire home, I don't accept. I don't take the money saying I accept but then change my mind (that would be fraud/theft).
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I did not. My bad. It was stupid to do so. And it is more stupid to do it again - so I pulled out.
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Since this week I was planing to giveout bunch of keys for playing/testing.
Again, what amazes me about you is that you're willing to give away keys for free to strangers (MalikQayum, for example) but you won't give them to people who actually bought and supported your game when it was just in Greenlight. By "closed shuffle" I think you mean you want to give away keys randomly but preventing some users who have criticized you to enter the raffle (me included).
And your ignorance is simply blatant. You put your games on bundles but you didn't know how those work or what your profit would be (that's the main reason to back out from the OtakuMaker bundles). You have your games on Steam but you don't know how to manage keys (for example, how to revoke unclaimed keys after some time) and you made it clear on the Steam discussion that you don't want to learn how it works. You include trading cards in your Steam games, but you don't want people dropping them. And now you register on Steamgifts and you start posting without understanding how this site works. Maybe you should stopping putting yourself into things you don't understand, shouldn't you?
McSnake (whom you blocked on the MechDefender Steam community) gave you the best advice possible on this subject:
My idea of solution for You:
Generate all the keys needed for Otaku GL #7 buyers, give them to Otaku to distribute with addnotation "You have time to activate it to <specify date>. All unused keys will be deactivated".
And after that <specified date> revoke all UNUSED keys from this specified batch.
This is solution used in many bundles recently. I think it has a chance to prevent reselling and other shady business.
It's my idea of meeting half-way.Yet your answer was a simple "I have no desire to control or know or track keys. I`m busy with developing games." (besides banning him).
And you don't seem to like people with 6k games on Steam, I'm not sure why (*grin*). Maybe I have 6k+ games on my Steam because I've been there for 12+ years and you've been on Steam for a mere 2+ years?
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You called me a moron. It is natural that I would not sent you a key. How that is hard to understand?
When you treating badly service stuff - they do spit in your food. Fak that. I hate analogies =)
You were rude. You paid for that four cents. Get over it. No?
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Also because you're a lying scammer
(ALONG with being an moron, to be clear)
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I called you "moron" here because this is a community and we're all friends here (sorta). I didn't insult you on the Steam discussions because it's not an open community and you can ban me anytime you want if I do so. I treated you with respect there, more respect than you show for us, assuming we are all bad people that only want profit from your trading cards and from selling your games on other websites for tons of money.
You paid for that four cents. Get over it. No?
If I send you another $0.04 via Paypal would I be allowed to call you "moron" again, or even something worse than "moron"? Just asking.
EDIT:
PS: No comments on McSnake's solution to your problem?
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Yes. Talking behind someones back - that is ok with you.
It is not ok to call names. Lets do a 100$ for one use? Lol
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I thought it was priced at $0.04 for "moron". I will stick to it thanks. And since I bought a 10-pack bundle, I'm still have some credit left to call you "moron", moron (*-$0.04*).
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Oh actually I dont like this deal anymore. And, well, I've already called you a moron and won't get anything new from paying you, so I wont
Besides, I wasn't able to research that money can be used to buy things earlier
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I got banned with nice reason : "Liar" . That's how ugly truth works for him.
He doesnt want any solution. He just want more money.
His point of view is "I'm the only right here", everyone else is mistaken.
His game passed Greenlight, so FU greenlight bundle buyers who support it on Greenlight. :/
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By the way, this is how I use the extra copies games for your games that I got from bundles to farm cards and make a profit on the "shady market":
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/fqH9T/control-craft-2
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/3HTL4/control-craft-2
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/cyUve/control-craft-2
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/2H7F9/royal-heroes
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@You do not have permission to view this giveaway, since you are not a member of the giveaway creator's whitelist, or the required Steam groups.@
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yeah, its a group requirement thing here.
each of those are 5copies of the game in the url title being randomly given out to a user of this website. that's where a large majority of bundle games go from purchasers from this website. granted yes, you are correct in assuming some will be sold on grey market websites. but the majority of users from this particular website only purchase for themselves and to give to others.
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Oh, I forgot you like to put yourself into things you don't fully understand. Let me make it easier for you:
My 1452 copies of games given away
Control Craft 2
Royal Heroes
Is it easier this way?
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He doesn't want an answer from any of us. He took the money from Otaku, probs spent it on cheap vodka, and reneged on his promise of steam keys if greenlit. It's that simple. You know, for me , it's not the +1 or the cards....I can almost guarantee that his crappy ports will end up as part of a bundle where I'll pay 30 cents for the thing, get to leave a scathing review like everyone else who's been abused by this dev and move on. Karma won't take long with this guy. It's not like any of his games are the new Spelunky, ya know?
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Link takes me to:
"Sorry!
An error was encountered while processing your request:
You must join this group before viewing any discussions. Click here to go to the main group page and click the "Join Group" button if it is available to you."
What am I missing?
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Good to know. Anyone any idea if there is a place/site/whatever that tracks which developers/publishers do stuff like this?
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Digital Homicides (appropriate name is appropriate) is a great group that covers shady devs that is transitioned already for Steam Direct now that Greenlight is gone: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/digitalhomicides
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Update on the developer of "MechDefender", "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith":
- New thread, Press Release - Bundle Trouble Problems where he asks people for help against all the bad people who are out there to get him (they're all bot farmers and spammers). [EDIT: now closed and I'm banned]
- His official statement on the subject where he conveniently forgets to mention anything regarding "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith"
- SidAlpha's YouTube video explaining the situation (please view and like and share and...)
- Reddit thread explaining the problem (please upvote and comment and share and...)
Stay tuned for more!
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So nice to see things finally coming around for mr Badim
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You listed wrong link.
Here is a actual link - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements/detail/1319965970603654026
Here is another link - for greenlight stats - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements/detail/1319965970608300745
And since you keep harassing me via others and harassing others who is think differently then you. I d like to ask you - to stop it.
Ill give away keys that I promised - as a giveaway. But not more then actual number of votes, even if a majority of them are not from bundle. You welcome to participate. Ill even unban/unblack list you - if you will stop your harassment.
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i bought 10 bundles of otaku greenlight 9. that means i should get 30 keys from you(10 each for your 3 games in that bundle). these keys you "promised". why i sould care if you make a giveaway with your game?
no one is harrasing you. we were expecting your keys and instead you gave us your middle finger and now you are trying to act cool. it's not even funny anymore.
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I`m not flipping finger. You were offered your money back. But that train is long gone.
My prediction - is that money is not a issue for you - but rather key amount.
Sorry to jump to conclusion - but there is only one reason for having a 10*9 keys for your self.
I can sent you one now - I think you were the one for "+1 library" issue?
Or in any case - I can sent you directly a key. One key. That would make it cost at forty cents - still more then 10 times less for you, and still - zero profit for me. Will that satisfy you?
(same for other games*)
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WHAT?!?!? You're gifting games on a site named Steamgifts?!? Don't you know that he just decided that gifting his games on Steamgifts is an abusing activity that he refuses to support as well (unless it's him doing the giveaway without middle-men)?
EDIT: Ninja'd by your other comment (×̯×)
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hehe yeah, i read that second comment and had to comment again. that's crazy to call it abusive. it would be abusive if they were free keys, but these were paid for. no matter how cheap.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/XomsN/otakumaker-greenlight-bundle-7#sKCcm7C
It is matter - how cheap it was. Since there is difference.
IMHO if steamgifts would value games in bundles for 1 cent - you would not use them as a gifts.
Till it is not - it is acceptable small abuse. But yech - I`m here for a week - so you know better. If you not looking for any kind of benefit from giving away cheap games for your steam gift stats - then why even care about it? =)
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i'm level 10. the max level. and still making giveaways. i get nothing in return for it anymore what so ever. :P
your entire theory is based upon greed, which seems to be your go to happy place.
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See - I didnt know that =) You could just said that in begging =))) So I would not come to that conclusion.
My place - is a knowledge. Are are here for keys? How many? Or we didnt have this chat yet?
Since every my post getting crossed over - it is hard to keep track.
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no, you don't owe me anything at all. i personally wasn't a purchaser of this bundle to begin with. i've just been following the status of this situation since it came here to this topic is all.
personally i'm pretty new to level 10 and didn't want to sound like i was bragging or anything is the only reason i didn't start out with that. it's not just me or even level 10s though, there are many here who don't care about the the level system. they just love spreading joy around to others. ^^
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Cool =) Tnx for honesty =))) But since we talking - I can sent you a key - if you like =))))))
I`d love to do it as well - spread the love&joy =)
And dont want to be my tread be trashed as it already happened before.
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that's okay thank you for your generosity, but i'll pass personally. =)
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But since we talking - I can sent you a key - if you like =))))))
I`d love to do it as well - spread the love&joy =)
And here you again, giving away Steam keys for your games all over the place, left, right and centre, while you won't send them to the people who actually paid for them and supported you on Greenlight. While you complain about only receiving 4 cents per copy from OtakuMaker (4 > 0), when you have always said that what you don't want is to give your work for free.
Vadim, you really need to get your sh*t together.
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Vadim, you have the bad habit of insulting a lot of people at once. Are you telling that everybody on Steamgifts is giving away games because of the value they get in exchange? Are you saying that no one would gifts games here if they didn't get a profit from it? That's a rude thing to say.
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You mean you misspelling my name on purpose? Without trying to be rude? =)
I unravel steamgifts step by step:
Here is a follow up - https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/XomsN/otakumaker-greenlight-bundle-7#qte4kl7
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You mean you misspelling my name on purpose? Without trying to be rude? =)
I thought you spelled it Vadim Starygin on your VK.com profile yourself. But ok, you can blame me for that too. I'm rude for using the name you stated on your own social network profile. And I'm harassing you to when I use it. Whatever.
I unravel steamgifts step by step:
Then perhaps you should unravel everything before making claims (again, you're not asking, you're making claims) or spitting at our faces in our own home.
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Still. it is Badim. Stop trying to harras me via other channels as well. Tnx.
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Again that word... "Harassing"... I haven't "harassed" you out of Steam forums and Steamgifts (I don't think I have harassed you anywhere, to be honest), someone (not me) posted your VK.com profile around and I just used that info to tell you that I was spelling your name correctly.
If you want me to call you Badim, I will call you Badim, that is not an issue with me. But that won't change the fact that your "real name" still is Vadim Starygin on your VK.com profile and that you accused me of misspelling your name on purpose to be rude. Which is, again, false.
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This is not your concern. You again trying bate others to harass that vk page.
And some kids already harassing that vk page. As you requested*
This is the only reason why you trying to highlight that link.
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Oh. My. God. (－‸ლ)
This is not your concern. You again trying bate others to harass that vk page.
Objective information, remember? Proof that you lied when you say I was misspelling your name on purpose to be rude.
And some kids already harassing that vk page. As you requested*
I've never requested anyone to harass you on that vk page, in fact, I didn't even know it existed until a few days ago, and it was via someone else (who did post it in several places -YouTube, Reddit, Steam forums,...-, but again, it wasn't me).
This is the only reason why you trying to highlight that link.
I'm not highlighting anything! That's how the markdown language works. You see, I can type Vadim Starygin as text, and it won't be highlighted. But if I post Vadim Starygin as a link, it gets automatically highlighted. Because it's a link!! But it's not me, it's html/markdown code dependent, I can't do anything about it.
If I really wanted to highlight it on purpose, I could use bold text: Vadim Starygin
Or bold text and italics: Vadim Starygin
Or different font sizes (in bold, of course):
Vadim Starygin
Vadim Starygin
Vadim Starygin
Do you see the difference?
What I do like is to mention Vadim Starygin a lot, in the hope that Google will index this page (and others) so when someone searches your name (someone who might be interested in hiring you, who wants to know how reliable Vadim Starygin is before signing a contract with him, or simply who would like know more about you) will end here, and will be able to decide if you can be trusted enough "in real life" to hire you/work with you/sign a contract with you. But that's how the game is played.
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Plz - remove that link. I already asked you.
Plz - add my statement - I refuse to work for four cents.
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Extra info that I got - beside farming ppl using 'cheap' games to used them as a gifts.
I guess that is kinda 'abusing'(acceptably) steamgifts?
Since then they tracked for a market value for a "Gifts Sent". (No Judgment - just conducting my research).
This is activity that I refuse to support as well. Sorry about it. I can giveaway my games in same efficiency - and without middle man. If you dont mind*
(So I still can sent you just one key)
PS And for badges - I still fail to understand how that work* I`ll ask in appropriate tread line.
PSS no need to prove that you bought - you were so active, that it looks like you spend a fortune. No need to escalate it.
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First of all i am not interested in getting any keys from you directly. not even the 30. The only acceptable solution is providing keys to otaku for all the buyers.
The only reason i bought that bundle x10 is this one http://steamcommunity.com/groups/groupbuys/discussions/0/133260492067537060/ , i made the purchase but it was me +9 other people actually.
You still don't understand that the main buyers of greenlight bundles are collectors. They spend money for games that maybe will never release on steam. no one buy these bundles for card farm or resell. absolutely no one.
Stop making excuses and accusations. It's not a debate if it's right or wrong. It's "illegal" and not acceptable by anyone.
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The only reason i bought that bundle x10 is this one
Uh-oh, you just told him about group buys... I'm sure that now he found out about it he is going to say it's against Steam policy and that he cannot support that... (ಥ﹏ಥ)
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Oh, group-buys. I do know this! We do the same.
That is ok.
I can sent you and your colleges your keys, no worries. Right in that group? or to you directly? Will that work for you?
I`m not making excuses and accusations, common. Just trying to understand.
Now it is easy to understand you - you represent 10 ppl, who actually sent you money. So when I pulled out - you were as a group. Sorry about that. I hope they didnt harass you via all possible ways - including your privat contacts and your friends.
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Oh, group-buys. I do know this! We do the same.
That is ok.
You're the pure image of coherence. Purchasing your games for cents directly in a bundle - Bad. Purchasing the bundle in a group buy to get your games even cheaper - Good. Gifting your games for 0 cents - Bad. Giving your game for free (0 cents) to strangers who just commented on your Greenlight pages or supported you against us - Good. Using the extra copies to farm the trading cards and craft the badges oneself - Bad. Vadim, get your sh*t together.
Now it is easy to understand you - you represent 10 ppl, who actually sent you money. So when I pulled out - you were as a group.
What's the difference with OtakuMaker representing all of his customers? Customers who are also people, people who sent them money, so when you pulled out, we were as a group (the group of OtakuMaker customers who bought the bundles and didn't receive the promised Steam keys). Why should the group buy purchasers have privileges over the direct purchasers of OtakuMaker? You realize they're the same people, don't you?
I can sent you and your colleges your keys, no worries. Right in that group? or to you directly? Will that work for you?
He already answered you to that:
First of all i am not interested in getting any keys from you directly. not even the 30. The only acceptable solution is providing keys to otaku for all the buyers.
Individual solutions are not solutions. You'll always leave somebody out who will be extra mad about it because he wasn't aware you were providing private solutions to private individuals.
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No need to use my words to write them again. That makes your posts bigger without any purpose.
I`m not caring about satisfying everyone. Just the one who is still loud enough for any reason.
I do understand reason for Sandoukos. He explained it well! Why you feel a urge to repost my messages here - it us up to you.
As I already stated - everyone who asked for refund - got it, and everyone who asked for a key - got them too. Just a few ppl left who were not satisfied. I`m trying to handle this. You can help. Or not. No need to hit "reply" - you already communicating with me on other treads.
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No need to use my words to write them again. That makes your posts bigger without any purpose.
It's called quoting and it's part of the Internet netiquette, but why you should even care?
I`m not caring about satisfying everyone. Just the one who is still loud enough for any reason.
See? That's your problem. You're caring about satisfying just the ones who will beg you or will say that you're right. The problem is that you can't satisfy someone that fulfills the exact same requisites as another person.
As I already stated - everyone who asked for refund - got it, and everyone who asked for a key - got them too.
False, and you know it. But we've already established you're a liar so no surprises here.
I never received a refund, and I never received a key. Not for "MechDefender" not for "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith". And I doubt that you've sent anyone Steam keys for those games from the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9.
Just a few ppl left who were not satisfied. I`m trying to handle this.
Your concept of "few" is as vague as your concept of "harass". I already told you several solutions to handle this efficiently, but you keep ignoring them.
You can help. Or not.
I'm trying to help, but you've been ignoring me since my very first post on March, 22nd. Others have tried to offer you solutions, and you've ignored them too (even banned!).
No need to hit "reply" - you already communicating with me on other treads.
You really should learn how to use a community forum and what a "thread", "comment", "reply", "post",... are.
We can create a new thread dedicated only to this, with a very long summary of what you did, the solutions we proposed, and the ones you proposed. And let people comment there. "À la" Reddit. But I don't think it would turn out differently than this.
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so you decided to provide keys for all otaku buyers wih proof of purchase who contact you? if that's the case i will accept your keys, if not i can't because it's not fair for all the other buyers.
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I dont have a list - who payed or not. I didnt sell anything. I dont have any money for this.
You making this harder. You accept them or not.
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actually from the looks of it, you made it harder. if you want to give purchasers keys, just sending them to otaku would of been the easy route. you chose the hard route.
i told you all you would get backlash 2 weeks ago. you claimed we'd all forget. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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This tread is with "Sandoukos"*
You can comment in official group - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements
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This is public discussion. It's not thread with anybody in particular.
Here atleast you can't ban anybody and delete any comments/threads.
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He is last one to settle. Then there will be none left for that.
But your comments makes it harder to count.
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He is last one to settle. Then there will be none left for that.
There's at least one more left (me).
You obviously avoid my questions every time you say this has been settled with "everyone".
-
Did you really settle it with each and every bundle purchaser? Are you 100% sure?
-
Does your settlement include "Royal Blacksmith"?
I'd like the answers, thanks.
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Didn`t you already settled some days ago?
Should I again look for your messages to restore your memory?
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I dont have a list - who payed or not.
I'll give you again a polite and friendly solution to this problem (I forgot to include this one in my list of possible solutions. I'd have discussed it with you this privately via Steam chat, but you're ignoring my friend request:
- Create a dedicated e-mail address for buyers to contact you, so your main address isn't flooded (examples: keys@elite-games.net, otakumaker@elite-games.net, bundle@elite-games.net,... your choice)
- Set up some basic rules in order to request the keys (specific subject line, what to include in the e-mail as proof of purchase, etc)
- Dedicate a couple of hours every day at first (when you'll receive most e-mail), then one day a week to send the Steam keys in batches. This is an example, you can change that depending on how much free time you have for this task, but a few hours, one time a week shouldn't be impossible.
- Tell everyone to be patient, and keep us informed as to where you're up to in the process (the date of the last e-mail you sent the keys to, to know how much longer would it take).
Purchasers should be able to send the proof of their purchase (Paypal receipt, OtakuMaker confirmation e-mail,...) to that e-mail address and you can send them their keys after you check that the information they sent you is correct. It's also good for you since only real people (humans, no bots) will contact you, so you would avoid those bad card farmer bots you hate so much and only people really interested in receiving your games will take the time to write your e-mail, so you would be sure that's it's people who really want your games (another concern that you had and you mention to us many times).
I have suggested this to many developers who weren't sure how to send the Greenlight keys to buyers of bundles that were sold on sites that were closed (Indie Royale, Desura, Indie Bundle, Greenlight Bundle, Bundle Bandits,...).
It is going to require work on your side (or your intern's side) but it can be done and since you don't want to send the keys to OtakuMaker (which would be two of the best solutions) the only alternative is to manage keys distribution yourself.
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I just noticed that this if for next bundle(9?). Lets handle that too as well.
All games already a key-generate-able.
Except Blacksmith - but that is a 20$ game and taking forever to develop. And I think - it will be replaced by otaku, if not already.
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rolmao, okay.. i suppose you weren't forgetting what website you're speaking on. is there anything related to steam you do condone? apparently it's absolute madness that people would want to purchase games to giveaway for free.
they also have something to prevent people from gaining too much contributor value from gifting the same game over and over again if you want to at least gather the proper research. after 5 copies are gifted each copy thereafter is decreased by 10% as well as if it's a bundled game (which these would be if delivered) it would only be 15% to begin with. (basically 50copies is max amount of copies one can gain value for, and even that is only $10.42 for 50x copies of a 4.99 bundled game, so rather insignificant)
(attached image is 500,000 copies of a 4.99 bundled game to show you precisely how it's not abusive)
edit: you don't have to take my word for it. the contributor value details are public information contained within the faq. (search the words "5 times" to take you directly to the relevant info)
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I rather just take your word for it. Ok, tnx.
And still - I rather giveout my games on my own.
This tread - resolved - solution already offered. Sandoukos can take it (all his keys) - or not, that is up to him.
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This tread - resolved - solution already offered. Sandoukos can take it (all his keys) - or not, that is up to him.
Not resolved, you've just opened another Pandora's box by agreeing to send the keys to people who bought the OtakuMaker bundles on a Steam group, while you still won't send those keys to the same people who bought the bundles directly on OtakuMaker. Meaning some bundle purchasers will receive their keys (based on who-knows-what that crossed your mind) while others won't. If you fail to see why that is crazy, I can't really help you here.
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Its ok. Crazy. I can handle that. Crazy developer. My next game have this word in it as well.
No worries.
No need to speak for others =) I can take it from here.
So far I noticed 3-4 ppl who still trying to get their keys? That is manageable. Others - dont care. There is still huge giveaway.
In a few days it will be on. Anyone is welcome to join group and participate. You can as well.
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Others - dont care.
I'll quote myself:
You'll always leave somebody out who will be extra mad about it because he wasn't aware you were providing private solutions to private individuals.
I couldn't care less that you don't care about others. But you should know that probably those "others" will realize they didn't receive their keys eventually (maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next week), and you'll have a problem again. Be my guest. I couldn't care less about anything bad coming at you.
There is still huge giveaway. In a few days it will be on. Anyone is welcome to join group and participate. You can as well.
Will you be giving away keys for all of your games? "MechDefender", Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith"? Will you be giving enough keys so everyone gets one (100% chance)? That's been done here in the past (feel free to ask).
I know what you're trying to pull with this, and I won't fall for it. You want to settle this with a "huge" (you're not really good with words like "huge" and "few") giveaway for "MechDefender" only, and for a number of keys not exceeding the number of votes you received on Greenlight (which won't be enough). I really shouldn't be telling that you're doing it wrong but, oh well, would you really care?
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Look, there are hundreds of developers that have used OtakuMaker and other bundle sites (Groupees etc) to sell greenlight games as a promotion (that is, buyers get nothing if game is not greenlit, or a key if it is, it is effectively a gamble, in turn they help the game get greenlit).
To my knowledge, so far you are the only one that won't deliver keys (after taking the money from OtakuMaker, I suppose), making excuses, somehow blaming people that actually supported your games for your alleged loss, and marking them as farmers and bots for no reason whatsoever.
Now, you believe you made a wrong decision by placing your games in OtakuMaker bundles (that might be a honest mistake on your part, I do not believe you actually wanted to fraud people), but you make actual buyers suffer your lack of foresight, that is a very negative thing in any business.
If you want to get rid of the "angry mob", there is only one thing to do, and that is handing the keys over to OtakuMaker. Otherwise, your reputation will forever be tarnished.
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Im not trying to get rid of that. That is impossible - typical continuous state of a any artist. Also, one of the line to cross - to accept any kind of feedback - not just positive one. Im trying to find a truce with a certain persons - who is still active about it for any reason.
And - to your last sentence - ok. I accept that. Lets move on to resolving this with you. Personaly or as a member of a group - as you pleased.
Our of curiosity - how many keys you bough from bundles that were featuring my games? If it a not-farm amount - let settle this. If you value your time as well as I.
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That is a personal question.
You stating that 19 - is a normal volume to have of each game?
Personally - I have a one to two copies of each game in my profile - I also buying sometimes extra copy for my son/wife account. So for me - right amount is two.
If you have a reason - like 10+ siblings or 10+ mates that you always buying games for - sure - then 19 is good for you.
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I make level 5 badges which needs at least 10. And some more for gifting here is nice to have too. So yeah, I was so "smart" to buy a 10-pack.
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I have a bunch of students, they doing same.
But they doing so via just one key from me.
Can you explain - how you handling 10 keys? You have 10 accounts? ( no judgements - just trying find a reason to sent you more keys* - if it against steam policy - then no).
Will you settle for one key? Or you need 10 and that will not break steam guidelines? (since I can not supporting that in public =)
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Yes I have 10 accounts and no it is not against steam policy. Even some Valve employees have an extra account as they mentioned themselves in a forum I read some time ago.
What is against steam policy is using those accounts to post (fake) positive reviews or mass vote on greenlight.
Which I obviously don't do (Valve finds and bans that very quickly by now).
1 key only gives half of a full card-set (can't craft a badge with that). Therefore to get all 5 badges 10 keys are needed.
That's why I bought a 10-pack, for both Greenlight bundles 7 & 9 (so together 4 of your games as I see), and all I would like to get is what I payed for.
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Sure. Ok. Friend me on staem? I'll sent you your keys to close this case. Will that work for you?
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Does your offer include Royal Blacksmith? If you add me on Steam and give me the keys you owe me (I will provide proof of purchase, of course) I promise you to stop "harassing" you (by "harassing" I actually mean "asking you to deliver what's mine"). I'll take that offer and walk away. I really would like to spend my time on something more productive.
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And some more for gifting here is nice to have too.
No can do, sorry, he just decided that gifting his games on Steamgifts is an abusing activity that he refuses to support as well (unless it's him doing the giveaway without middle-men). He joined Steamgifts two weeks ago and he's already telling us that what we've been doing here for years is unacceptable. Go figure...
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No need to harras ppl who I`m trying to chat with. Would be nice if you would keep your self - to your self. If you dont mind. Otherway - commenting for each post that were not directed to you - makes this less productive.
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See? I already told you that your concept of "harassing" is a bit vague. I'm not harassing anyone, especially when they're the ones agreeing with me. I just told the truth (that you don't support gifting your games on this site), didn't I?
Or did you change your mind again?
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You are interrupting other treads - when we(you+me) already got like a 5-10 already.
Maybe you should just start a new topic - just with me and you(public).
So instead of adding message to every my post for other users - we can do that. Didnt I already offered that?
And again, let me repeat my self - If you have a copy and wanna gift it - go ahead. idk.
I think I already wrote it, let me past a link to forum:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/562730/discussions/0/1354868867727298471/?ctp=3#c1354868867733049773
"I dont want to sell my games for four cents."
"You are free to repeat it, spread it, share, like, what ever. Who cares. It is free to relay a message"
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"I dont want to sell my games for four cents."
"You are free to repeat it, spread it, share, like, what ever. Who cares. It is free to relay a message"
Here we go again... Yet you are giving away Steam keys for your games for free all over the place, left, right and centre. You see? That's why your reasoning is failing miserably.
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It might surprise you, but I didn't buy any of these bundles (though I did buy some other greenlight ones from OtakuMaker, and I've always received all the related keys), so I have nothing to settle nor any personal interest in this.
It's simply that I cannot condone these shady practices, getting in a bundle, being greenlit, and refusing to honor your part of the deal, not just once (that would be inexperience, thus one could eventually forgive), but several times, for several different games in different bundles (that is intentional, you cannot make the same mistake so many times in good faith). Because it hurts all independent developers who use greenlight (now, greenlight doesn't exist anymore, but it remains a matter of principle).
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It dosent. I even accepted a intern to handle such stuff - since extra users are spamming same opinion in a harsh manner :) so i would not waste my time fot that.
Ok, cool. Then just 1 unsetled person left. I'll make a post why devotee will not settle at anything. I want to spell check it first :)
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Then just 1 unsetled person left.
You do realize that not everyone who purchased those bundles is reading this, don't you? You know you're leaving a lot of unsettled buyers behind, don't you?
I'll make a post why devotee will not settle at anything. I want to spell check it first :)
You lied again, I would like to settle this once for all but of course you will ignore that. I was the first person to politely ask you about the Steam keys for "MechDefender", I even tried to politely reason with you until I figured out that you don't reason (I know, I know, you don't argue, you just explain why you're right). The first thing you told me was that you were not going to give Steam keys for that game, and you accused me of wanting the game only to farm the trading cards. Don't tell me I don't want to settle this, I've been trying to settle this since March, 22nd. By the way, your games were still being sold on OtakuMaker bundles back then, I guess you pulled out too late.
I'm not sure what you're going to say on that post but I guess you're going to lie. So before you even do that post I'll state it loud and clearly:
I just want the Steam keys I was promised when I bought the bundles OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #7 and OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9. I can send you a proof of purchase of both bundles. I upvoted each and every game from that bundles that was on those bundles, I even left a comment on the Greenlight page stating where I bought the games and that I voted YES, wishing you good luck. I purchased "MechDefender", "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith", and I voted for them on Greenlight. As I've already told you, I'll stop asking you for my Steam keys when you send them to me (10 keys for each game, "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith"). That's what I bought. That's what I voted and supported on Greenlight. That's what I was promised. You just won't keep your end of the deal. And it's not about the 4 cents you always say (4 cents 4 games 10 copies = 160 cents, you always forget to mention that you earned ~$100 per game and bundle, for a total of ~$400), it's about the value of my Greenlight votes, and you abusing the Greenlight system by asking votes in exchange of paid keys for your games (not even free keys, since we had to buy them).
You can include that text in your post if you want.
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PS: You can add me on Steam if you want and we can discuss this privately via Steam chat if you don't want this amount of public "noise". I'd really love to chat directly with you, man to man. Maybe it will be easier that way. You know what my Steam profile is.
PPS: I've sent you a friend invite on Steam. Let's see if you really want to talk about this or you'll just block me like the last time I tried to contact you.
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Here is topic to continue discussion: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements/detail/1319965970603654026
Here is topic to discus greenlight data: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements/detail/1319965970608300745
Where you can directly&public ask your questions.
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Where you can directly&public ask your questions.
I'm still banned so no, I can't write anything there.
I have sent you a friend request on Steam, though.
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Hit accept - https://pp.userapi.com/c638927/v638927333/49d39/IfJ8os_cLk0.jpg =)
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https://steamcommunity.com/id/devotee/friends/blocked/ maybe?
(could be their side instead though)
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No, I've sent several friend requests to him and it doesn't give an error (which usually happens if the other user has blocked you -I think, I haven't tested it right now, though-). When you block someone you don't even have the option to send that user a friend request (the button is grayed out).
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The point here is you gain nothing by not sending those keys. It doesn't gain you money (in fact, if your games have tradable cards you're actually losing money). It doesn't gain you sympathy (no one likes people who intentionally refuse to uphold promises). It doesn't gain you good advertising because people googling you might happen here or anywhere else this discussion is going on (and it will spread in time).
People who purchased the game through OtakuMaker bundle will be pissed as hell at you, they will definitely NOT buy your game again, so you miss nothing by giving them a key because otherwise you will never be able to sell them the same game (and they will not buy your other games because now they hate you, while giving them a key they paid for might have them actually like the game and buy your other games as well).
People who didn't purchase the bundle (and your game) will not get a "free" key, so you can still sell the game to them (there are, what, 1500 bundles sold? vs milions of Steam users you can sell your games to?).
Now, I understand you got 4c per game for a limited number of games, and it's not much. But you still gained A LOT in publicity, your games were greenlit also thanks to OtakuMaker, and if now you have a chance to show off new games and people follow you and know you, it is mostly thanks to those 1500 people that gambled on the success of your game and actively supported you on Greenlight (think about how many thousands of dollars would a marketing campaign cost, to get you the same coverage you had in exchange for a mere 1500 keys). You can not deny that before being bundled, you were completely unknown to the general public, had no visibility, and absolutely no chance to have your games greenlit, and now you have estabilished yourself as a developer on Steam.
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why are financial records necessary? isn't it kinda obvious that 0+0=0? & 0+0.01x4,500 = $135? (assuming 1 penny per card & all cards are farmed & sold only once)
obviously not all cards would be farmed, however some cards maybe sold more then once.
edit: fixed the bad math after it was pointed out to me below. =)
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oops you're right, i did 10cents each card on accident. however, from the way i understood it, they get 10% of every single transaction with a minimum of one penny. so if that's the case then it's the full 135 dollars & not only 10% of that. (not counting the money they refused from otaku). or 320 dollars using your other example.
regardless.. it's $$$ (no matter how little) versus no $$$.
edit:
Again I ask, can you show some sort of financial records that will support this claim?
i certainly can't. it's not a "claim" nor is it "made up numbers", it's merely common knowledge math. (with mistakes granted, i am human after-all) -- again i state "financial records are completely pointless to state... money is good, no money is bad".
edit2: the 1500 # came from the developer using that figure all over this thread btw ;)
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woah woah, why are you adding the two possible card amounts? they won't get the cards sold at both prices.. now you are figuring way too high.
but what you are not understanding is, these were a sold item.. do you personally appreciate purchasing an item and not having it delivered to you, because that is the situation you seem to be ignoring due to them not profiting even further off the already done sale.....
edit:
again these numbers are build upon numbers we can not confirm which is most likely to be much higher
no, apparently you haven't read this thread. it's the figure the developer themselves stated on many occasions.
none of the figures are "made up"... maybe you should do some reading before claiming i'm making stuff up. :S
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it's no prob, i've been doing same. i keep saying one of the most important parts in edits and i think that's what would help you understand my figures the most. and that is...
the 1500 came from badim himself in several comments thruout this thread. here would be one of those times.
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actually not getting thru greenlight would make it so they don't make anything at all. those 8 confirmed sales couldn't exist if it werent from the otaku bundle promotion getting their game thru greenlight.
the entire discussion here was about them backing out until you got fixated on card sale prices.
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okay.. i suppose i'll break this one down to you and continue two conversations at once anyways.
what is it to us if the dev backed out ?
nothing at all other then i hate to see it happen. (as stated in my other comment about me having nothing to do with this bundle)
whom are you to "shame" this dev?
that would be devotee doing shaming.. i've actually been very civil when speaking with badim, so much so they offered me a key for my friendly honesty. (2nd half stated in my other comment)
did otaku not replace your "lost" key with 2 other games ? if you are not happy with the 2 other games then ask Otaku for a refund or another replacement whatever you want but that is between you and otaku not you and this dev.
irrelevant as i personally didn't buy the bundle (as stated in my other comment)
where people that bought the bundle not repremented with 2 steam keys for 2 other games?
yes, and that works fine for me. but that doesn't mean i can't dislike a developer for their actions either.
if they are not happy with the 2 replacement games then is that not between the consumer and otaku and not with the dev?
also irrelevant due to me not purchasing the bundle to begin with.
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i can actually agree with you on all points here except only partially so on #2.
i wouldn't say the $ they would of gotten from card sales is significant enough of a reason to honor the agreement by itself, nor do i mean to claim there would of been no possible way they could of gotten it past the greenlight system either because it is still very possible without otaku.
but due to the fact that they chose to use otaku and put thier game in a greenlight bundle, i do understand peoples frustration towards and partially can agree with anger towards the developer as it's a crappy thing to do to another company that you've done promotion work with. however, i do think some people are taking their anger to a level of borderline harassment and that is uncalled for completely.
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ask yourself tho, why would you be "angry" / "frustrated" if otaku is fine by it?
because it's wrong...
that's almost as bad of a question as....
why should i care that someone murdered someone else down the street if i didn't know them?
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and i'm sure there are plenty of people in this world that are fine with murder and mayham as well. xD
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You can't simply say that Otaku is fine with it just because they didn't decide to pursue legal action. In much the same way that I wouldn't fight with someone just because they bumped into me on the street, you don't pick a fight with everybody that wrongs you, you pick and choose your battles and decide which are worth pursuing. It doesn't make that action right or okay or fine, it just means it wasn't worth your time, money or effort.
Do you honestly think Otaku would ever work with Badim again after he so easily breached contract and decided to pull his games out of the bundle after his game already got greenlit? I really doubt they would, which suggests to me that they're NOT fine with it.
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it is not wrong if otaku says it is fine to breach the contract without reprecautions.
Please show me a statement from Otakumaker that says that they are "fine" with it. I'm merely pointing out the flawed logic and/or poor word choice you used in your comment. An action can be wrong even if people decide not to do anything about it.
so do feel free to show some sort of response from Otaku that shows that the matter is not resolved.
The matter is certainly resolved in regards to Otakumaker since they replaced the missing game with two additional keys. I wasn't trying to argue otherwise. The bundle that was for sale was not what was delivered, and so Otakumaker is responsible for making that right. I don't blame Otakumaker for Badim dropping out, but I would expect them to either refund me or otherwise compensate me for the missing game.
However, this doesn't absolve Badim either. I will certainly keep this breach of contract in mind because I personally don't believe anybody who conducts their business in such a way deserves my business. As a consumer, my power lies in how I choose to spend my money. You are of course free to decide how to spend your own money.
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it's just a side bonus to an already done deal that they are backing out of due to it not being profitable enough when in reality the true profit already paid off and it got his game thru the stupid greenlight system. now the dev backs out because he no longer needed that "reverse paid promotion" :S
idk why you are fixated on extra card income tbh, so much so you want financial record information. it's neither here nor there on that info, it's an extra source of income period that certainly doesn't exist without delivering the "once upon a time" promised item.
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you voted on greenlight because you wanted to buy the game if it was on steam, you should not have voted on it if it was because you expected to get a key from a third party site, you should have read what the text said before you voted on the submission it was right there.
if otaku and the dev used the bundle as an incentive to go vote for something to recieve a steam key then you participated in greenlight voting manipulation.
i didn't vote, nor buy this bundle.. if delivered i won't be getting anything anyways. i just hate to see devs treat the customers that gave them success in that manor.
“Would you buy this game if it were available in Steam?”
i wouldn't. i was even offered a key from badim due to my friendly and honest responses to them within this thread and i declined their generous offer as it wouldn't of felt right to me to accept a key that should of gone to a paying customer.
I am fixated on the records because people make it up to believe that this dev lost a huge amount of money..
i've shown you how it's not made up, but whatever.. :S
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how hard would it be to confirm for yourself........
i'm not gonna continue to talk about your hypothetical sales that could possibly never exist without the promotion they did thru otaku, as it is just that.. purely hypothetical.
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i'm not gonna continue to talk about your hypothetical sales that could possibly never exist without the promotion they did thru otaku, as it is just that.. purely hypothetical.
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you can't make steam sales without getting thru greenlight. they chose to use otaku as their source of promotion and failed in their obligations.
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no it's not the only way, but it is the way they chose to do it.
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would that mean every game greenlit was somehow bundled?
No. But there are developers who know that the only way to get their games greenlit is by bundling them (and Badim knew and used that).
they may have used otaku as their promotion / traffic but it is wrong to say that it would not have gotten greenlit otherwise.
Did you miss my comment? You're welcome.
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who told you that you can't sell your games outside of steam before your game gets greenlight and promise steam keys? Read the faq first. Voting manipulation? are you serious?
There are thousands games greenlighted via bundles. Stop blaming the buyers or the bundle site. As i said to badim yesterday it's not a debate if he is right or wrong. what he decided to do is "illegal" and he knows it.
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I am fixated on the records because people make it up to believe that this dev lost a huge amount of money..
but it is only 135 dollars... 40 steam store sales at full price....
It's not about the $135. It's the votes he received that got him to publish the game on Steam and be able to sell them on its store at full price. If he wants to pull out, that's fine. But he should also pull out his games from Steam and pass greenlit again (or pay the Steam direct fee to publish his games).
Now you (or Badim) could say "I would have rather paid the $100 Steam direct fee, I'd have been published on Steam without needing your votes or Greenlight and without all this mess" but the thing is that no one knew how much would Steam going to ask publishers and developers to pay on Steam direct. It could have been $100, it could have been $500, it could have been $1000. That's why Badim was so fast to include as many games as he could (three of them) on the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 and he let them sell that bundle even after he stated he was having issues with OtakuMaker. He paid the one-time-Greenlight fee and rushed for his games to be greenlit before Greenlight was shut down. He will deny it, but the facts are there.
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Who told you that one cent is minimum?
That is not correct.
Currently - I get less then a half of cent per card trade. ( around $0.003+)
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steam told me that in the market faq
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That is a Steam fee. It is not developer cut yet.
That is how much money steam will get. Then it will share some % with developer.
Developer will get less.
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well when i sell a card it takes 2cents and tells me right then and there 0.01 is steams fee.. i can only deduce that the remainder is yours.
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I`m not Steam. That is a steam free. I already stated how much i(as a publisher) get per card transaction in average - less then half cent.
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oh okay, so I guess the other part goes to the publisher
maybe you can make an agreement with this Badim guy. I hear he's a real piece of shit though
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You shouldnt went in otaku deal in first place :)
But you signed fucking contract, and you must deal with it, if you dont want to end like Digital Homicide.
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The Valve fee and the publisher cut is at least USD 0.01. If the card is sold for the minimum 3 US cents, then 1 goes to the seller, 1 to Valve, 1 to the publisher. If it would not have this limit, then Indonesians would pretty much rule the entire card market.
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Who told you that one cent is minimum?
That is not correct.
Currently - I get less then a half of cent per card trade. ( around $0.003+)
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The emails I get from Steam as the invoice for the market transaction.
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For publisher side it is different math:
https://pp.userapi.com/c638927/v638927333/4a305/FmnF5ZmmJ1A.jpg
fee, taxes, currency exchange rate, etc.
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The developer gets $0.01 minimum per every card traded.
It would be 10% with a minimum of $0.01, and currently "normal" cards i.e. for Royal Offense are traded at $0.08-0.12 and foils at $1.50-1.80 but let's assume cards are traded at their minimum value and no foils are dropped and no boosters are awarded, the worst condition.
Let's suppose 1500 keys are sent (there were several games in several different bundles, but let's consider only one now).
Of these 1500 keys, let's suppose only 1000 are actually farmed for cards to be sold, so we have a nice number to start with. The other keys are left rotting on OtakuMaker, activated and forgotten in backlogs, or traded 1:1 without using the market, or simply pile up in someone's inventory.
Each activation/idling can drop up to 4 cards (of 8 total), so there are 4000 cards ready for sale.
Simply trading these cards once nets the developer $40, which is not much, but it's still more than $0 + bad press/angry mob. Now, we didn't consider foil cards (each would net about $0.15 if sold at current price), items obtained with crafting said badges (4000 cards = 500 badges = 1000 backgrounds + emotes) that may also be sold and are of varying value. Also, some cards might be traded more than once. Now, remember that players can also get boosters at random, that's additional cards for trade.
Now, considering there are 4 games that have been bundled and not only 1 (the math above is for 1), if the numbers are similar the bare minimum he will be getting is $160, but it would actually be much more considering all things we didn't consider (probably more than double that).
He won't get rich, but it is still better than the other option.
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You are missing the point. I think it's safe to assume that nobody who bought the bundle will pay the developer *again*, and most certainly not at full price. Why would I support someone who just stole my money? So it's not like not giving the keys he already owes is getting him any more purchases.
160 dollars would be 32 steam purchases at full price (5 dollars) if Valve wouldn't take a share of profit, I believe it's 30%, so it's actually more like 45 full price purchases. But the actual price i.e. of Royal Offense is 3 dollars, so it makes about 70 full price purchases. And we know that "full price purchases" on Steam are rarely a thing, especially with lesser known games (I wonder if he sold more than a few dozen of copies of each game at full price).
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"You can not deny that before being bundled, you were completely unknown to the general public, had no visibility, and absolutely no chance to have your games greenlit, and now you have estabilished yourself as a developer on Steam."
That is not correct. I had a game before this - green lighted. You could check that. But hey - lets spread false rumors.
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That is not correct. I had a game before this - green lighted. You could check that. But hey - lets spread false rumors.
Which game is that? As far as I know, all of your games were greenlighted shortly after being bundled by OtakuMaker. Royal Heroes sat there for more than 4 months but it wasn't until it was bundled on the OtakuMaker Greenlight #2 Bundle that it was greenlit. Super Sports Surgery was on Greenlight for almost 5 months, but it was greenlit shortly after being on OtakuMaker Greenlight #9 Bundle. The same for Royal Offense, 3 months on Greenlight but only 24 days from being on OtakuMaker Greenlight #9 Bundle until it got greenlit.
But let's spread more lies.
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This is not all my games.
And - some of the games - were greenlight without bundles(before included to them). Lol =) I forgot(dont care) to mention that =))))) But that is not your concern anyway.
Why you keep linking to steamgifts? you know I`m here just for few weeks? But I develop games for many years. So you doomed to get wrong info every time you will not do extra effort. Research - takes some time.
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Why we even talking - if you cant find that info on your own.
It is not a secret.
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If it's not a secret, it would have taken even less effort to simply type the name of the game than to tell people to look for themselves, wouldn't it?
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that would of required honesty. i've tried taking them at their word, but there's way too many conflicted things said now that it has become completely apparent to me they're full of shit.
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This is a late response, but if of all your games that are currently available to purchase on Steam are listed on that page, then it is true that every game currently available to purchase on Steam has been in a GreenLight bundle. Devotee has already stated this numerous times. The only game that has been greenlit and (to my knowledge) hasn't been bundled is Regulator, which had been greenlit over two years when it was a lot easier to push decent games through GreenLight and seemingly abandoned since then.
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I did a little bit more research and it only got worse (now I see devotee already had it covered but I didn't read his post properly).
Your oldest game (published as either Badim or Elite Games Ltd) is Royal Heroes. It has been put up on Greenlight on September 2015. 4 months later, it was still languishing on Greenlight when you put it in Bundle Greenlight #2 from OtakuMaker, and it was greenlit in 2 days after the bundle.
So, ALMOST ONE ENTIRE YEAR before this very thread about Greenlight Bundle #7 (and subsequent #9), you already had known ALL of how OtakuMaker bundles work (how much you get paid, how it works, what obligations you have), you did know exactly what to expect from this, you simply chose to disregard it entirely, and willingly steal people's money. This is far from a honest mistake.
IF it is true that some of your games were greenlit and not been in a bundle, it happened AFTER your first greenlit game (thanks to OtakuMaker). This would still prove my point -before OtakuMaker, you were unknown as a developer, you gained success because of OtakuMaker-
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Where? I can't see the answer anywhere, instead of simply writing down a single name, you are dragging it for days... "it's not a secret" "everyone can check" "go do homework"... not once did you answer properly.
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On other note! Since I dont know why im fighting this - this is true! Im Otaku creation! All my game development career is based on his success.
Even I`m doing this longer then he is - you still right. Universe works your way.
Use more bold font to highlight more text - that is making it true. Not the actual research.
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Is there anything you can see to disprove what i'm saying, other than the fact that you don't like bold text?
I did some research and these are the facts I found. If they are wrong, just say why they are wrong (like, "hey there is this game from 2014 you didn't consider <link to game>, so your point is null").
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I listed the correct links, you're just deleting a lot of stuff and banning a lot of people ([you banned me with the reason "boring"]((http://i.imgur.com/qUf3Hdi.png) and spam). It should be easy since you've recruited people on VK.com to moderate and ban everyone. You even stated you had bots doing the moderation and ban duties based on keywords. I corrected the links, now it points to the correct content.
Regarding your lie about Greenlight:
Without bundle - my other games got 200-400 votes in first day.
With - or without bundle - they did passed it anyway.
Here's a timeline of what happened with his games:
| Game | Greenlight | Bundled | Greenlit | Steam | ∂Greenlit (days) | ∂Bundle (days) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Royal Heroes | 2015/9/23 | 2016/1/26 | 2016/1/28 | 2016/2/1 | 127 | 2 |
| Control Craft 2 | 2016/1/19 | 2016/1/26 | 2016/1/28 | 2016/2/15 | 9 | 2 |
| ConflictCraft | 2016/3/30 | 2016/4/26 | 2016/4/27 | 2016/12/8 | 28 | 1 |
| Control Craft 3 | 2016/5/2 | 2016/5/31 | 2016/6/10 | 2016/12/30 | 39 | 10 |
| MechDefender | 2016/10/19 | 2016/10/19 | 2016/11/23 | 2017/3/22 | 35 | 35 |
| Super Sports Surgery | 2016/10/25 | 2017/2/20 | 2017/3/17 | 2017/6/9 | 143 | 25 |
| Royal Offense | 2016/12/16 | 2017/2/20 | 2017/3/16 | 2017/4/22 | 90 | 24 |
| Royal Blacksmith | 2017/2/16 | 2017/2/20 | 2017/3/16 | TBA | 28 | 24 |
Game = Name of his game
Greenlight = Date the game was submitted to Greenlight
Bundled = Date the game was featured in an OtakuMaker
Greenlit = Date the game was greenlit
Steam = Date the game was published on the Steam store
∂Greenlit = Days passed between the Greenlight initial submission and the game being greenlit
∂Bundle = Days passed between being included in an OtakuMaker and the game being greenlit
You'll notice several things from the collected data:
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His first game (Royal Heroes) sat on Greenlight for months until it was featured in a bundle (OtakuMaker Bundle Greenlight #2). It "magically" was greenlit two days after.
-
He submitted the games shortly before including them in the OtakuMaker Greenlight bundles. He obviously knew that by doing so his games would be quickly greenlit.
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Proof of that is that he couldn't get Super Sports Surgery and Royal Offense to be greenlit until they were in an OtakuMaker bundle (OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9). Sports Surgery was on Greenlight for almost 5 months but it just took 25 days for it to be greenlit after it was bundled. Royal Offense was on Greenlight for 3 months but was greenlit 24 days after being bundled.
-
He continued to include his games on OtakuMaker bundles long after the controversial MechDefender game was bundled in OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #7. He included three games on OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 and he even rebundled ConflictCraft and Control Craft 3 on OtakuMaker Bundle #30 (which ran from 2017/02/15 to 2017/04/30)
-
I asked him about the Steam keys for MechDefender on 2017/03/22, he replied on 2017/03/23, basically stating that he had changed his mind and accused me of wanting the game just to farm the trading cards ("You need this one to mine cards, right?"). On 2017/03/24 "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith" were still being sold on OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 (ended on 2017/03/26) and "ConflictCraft" and "Control Craft 3" were still being sold on OtakuMaker Bundle #30 (ended on 2017/04/30, a month after he confessed he had issues with OtakuMaker's revenues and bundle purchasers being evil bot farmers/card miners/spammers). He has stated that he "pulled out" from the bundles as soon as he noticed the problem, but that's another lie.
-
OtakuMaker actively asked for Greenlight votes even after a Greenlight Bundle had ended. If a game had been on one of their Greenlight bundles but wasn't greenlit yet, they would spam you on every newsletter/e-mail they sent you asking for your support voting those games. So even a Greenlight Bundle had ended, games would still be getting promotion and votes.
As a summary, this guy is a fraud. He thought he could add his games to Greenlight bundles just to "pull out" from them later (which he didn't do, by the way), after receiving all the votes from the bundle purchasers and OtakuMaker's promotion. It's very suspicious that he added three games in the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 (the last bundle his games were in -not counting OtakuMaker Bundle #30 which included two already released games on Steam) when he usually added one or two games. And two of those three games had been sitting for months on Greenlight without any success. It was only after they were bundled and promoted by OtakuMaker that they were finally greenlit in a matter of days.
If by 2017/03/23 (I guess it was before that date) he already was disagreeing with OtakuMaker's contract:
-
Why did he allow OtakuMaker to continue selling his games on the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 (ended on 03/26)?
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Why did he allow OtakuMaker to sell ConflictCraft and Control Craft 3 on the OtakuMaker Bundle #30 for another month (bundle ran from 02/15 to 04/30)?
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Did he wait for the games on the OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #9 to be greenlit on 2017/03/16 before saying anything because he knew that if he told everyone that he wasn't going to deliver the Steam keys, he would lose all the positive votes for those games?
If it wasn't clear yet, now it is. Vadim Starygin (Royal Elite Games, Elite Games Ltd, Badim, mrBadim) is shady as fuck, a liar, a scammer and a fraud.
By the way, your screenshot of the MechDefender Greenlight voting just proves our point: of course the peak is on the first two days! The game was submitted to Greenlight the same day it was also bundled on OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #7!!!! You got all your votes from the bundle purchasers and the OtakuMaker promotion/spamming after that.
Vadim Starygin, why you don't just admit that you've been caught red-handed and that you're just a scammer?
And since you're deleting content, let's recover it:
Keys for bundle buyers (and your infamous, now edited, now deleted first reply [screenshot]):
http://archive.is/Iymom
Press Release - Bundle Trouble Problems original thread:
http://archive.is/j4w3e
Group Press Release - Bundle Trouble Problems (with my deleted comments):
http://archive.is/BB623
So, what happened here:
http://archive.is/avN1u
I have more, but those are the most relevant ones.
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Yes. I stay corrected. This is boring. Too much texts.
I prefer it in a nutshell: I pull out of a deal. 1500+ copies for four cents per copy. Overall damage - less then a hundred bucks.
I banned with one-click - perma ban*remove all messages. As I stated - I work alone - so i prefer my time on developing games, not chasing a four cent income.
Yes, I accepted a intern - (just one, not a "muscle" or a group) - I teach him how to develop games and how to build his CV. He is helping me - by removing all posts that included swearing words.
You did swear - you got banned. I can unban you, if you like and promise not to swear in public places.
And to keep this simple - what you think about "huge" giveaway? Will you accept it or trash that tread, again? =(
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Yes. I stay corrected. This is boring. Too much texts.
Thankfully, Steamgifts moderators don't suspend users for writing too much text.
I prefer it in a nutshell: I pull out of a deal. 1500+ copies for four cents per copy. Overall damage - less then a hundred bucks.
I prefer in a nutshell too: You abused Valve's Greenlight system. You got votes by falsely promising paid (not even free!) Steam keys to the bundle purchasers. When your games got greenlit, you pulled out (too late). Again, let's see what's Valve's opinion on this.
You did swear - you got banned. I can unban you, if you like and promise not to swear in public places.
I can't really find any swearing in my comments here, care to explain why I was banned from your group?
And to keep this simple - what you think about "huge" giveaway? Will you accept it or trash that tread, again? =(
Read below.
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Yes. Easy. I used Ctrl+F:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/XomsN/otakumaker-greenlight-bundle-7#MNkXkXE
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Steamgifts != Steam community
You can ask a moderator to suspend me for that (which they already did, as you know -they suspended both of us for a few days-), but you can't "pass it on" to Steam just because you think you're God there. You're not.
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I'll admit it was a bit too much of swearing but him coming here to ask people to translate his games in exchange for free Steam keys (when he didn't want to send keys to users who paid for them and all he complains about is that he doesn't want to give his games for 4 cents) was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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Are you still banned?
I removed your from bans already - https://pp.userapi.com/c836624/v836624333/60495/CdixlAeOMMY.jpg maybe steam need time to update cashe.
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And I missed your point about greenlight:
Too much text to handle with one tread.
I unbaned you in a group with data, so I can post more screenshots, if you like.
(There were 4 banned users, now there is 3).
Here is a dedicated post about greenlight data:
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements/detail/1319965970608300745
I`ll not dispute - can I or can I not have done greenlight without you - that is irrelevant atm. This action is already priced by Valve.
If you care to continue to chat about it - plz lets go there for that.
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I`ll not dispute - can I or can I not have done greenlight without you - that is irrelevant atm. This action is already priced by Valve.
Vadim, oh you're so wrong... "That is irrelevant"? Really?!? It's the whole point of the discussion!! It's not the 4 cents per copy reasoning, it's the "you got greenlit because you promise Steam keys in exchange for paid votes" that is really the problem here. And do you really think that Valve is already done with that once your game has been greenlit? Have you ever heard of Digital Homicide? They did pass greenlit (with a lot of games, by the way) and Valve banned them (and all of their greenlit games) from Steam. What makes you think you're so special? Do you really think Valve can't do anything against you now that your games have been greenlit and you're on the Steam store?
If you care to continue to chat about it - plz lets go there for that.
- I can't go there because I'm banned. And even if I could go there, there's no guarantee you won't delete my comments on those announcements (like you've done in the past)
- I'd rather deal with your Greenlight abuse/fraud with Valve, thanks. They're the ones who have to judge if what you did to pass greenlit was legit or not. And guess what? It doesn't look legit at all when you see the whole picture. If Valve has done nothing about you until now it's not because they don't want to or because you're right, it's because they don't know about this (yet).
I'd love to see the voting graphs for the rest of your Greenlight games, though.
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I did unbanned you. Here is a list of banned users in group:
https://pp.userapi.com/c836624/v836624333/60495/CdixlAeOMMY.jpg
I will not delete your comments - if you will not curse/harras.
Plz, understand - that you wiped my comments as well - when you forced me to ban you - that deleted a tread and my comments as well. And I loved that comments - it took a while to build them and do the math.
But, again, it is irrelevant if you wanna just "deal with your Greenlight abuse". If you already set your mind, and dont need any more data from me - go on, pursue your dream. Or if you need - post there your request - I`ll fulfill them. Not immediately - first development, then chit-chat.
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I will not delete your comments - if you will not curse/harras.
I usually don't curse. "Harass" is such a vague concept with you. Disagreeing with you is harassing you, as far as I know.
Plz, understand - that you wiped my comments as well - when you forced me to ban you - that deleted a tread and my comments as well. And I loved that comments - it took a while to build them and do the math.
And here you go again, playing the victim.
-
You really need to learn how to use Steam (or fire your intern). You can ban someone from a Steam community and still keep their messages, it'll just show "banned" right beside their name in the comments.
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I didn't force you to ban me. You banned me because I was "boring" (that was the reason for the ban) but, you see, "boring" is also a vague concept. It might be boring for you, but entertaining and enlightening for others.
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"that deleted a tread and my comments as well", I'm sorry that you pushed the wrong button. As I said, you should learn how Steam works (but that's something you've already stated you don't want to do -revoking keys, generating coupon codes,...-).
But, again, it is irrelevant if you wanna just "deal with your Greenlight abuse". If you already set your mind
"Set in my mind"? Did you really look at your graph before posting it? It's pure objective data there, Vadim...
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I know how steam works. And I knew that deleting you - would delete my comments too.
You were wondering - why you were not banned so long. Here is your answer. Once your harrasment outweigh tread that you created - you were banned - and all my posts were removed. That is my reaction, not my intention.
For grenlight voting - there is a specific tread - plz go there for that discussion.
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/royalelitegames#announcements/detail/1319965970608300745
I did a effort and unbanned you. Now your turn.
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And I knew that deleting you - would delete my comments too.
Wrong. You can ban someone and keep their messages (you can even delete the ones you don't like). It's not my fault if you deleted the wrong comments, or if you mass-deleted all my comments. Don't blame me for that.
For grenlight voting - there is a specific tread - plz go there for that discussion.
I'm still banned. Either Steam cache sucks, or you're doing it wrong (I'd say it's the later, but it's just a feeling base on how much you know about Steam, and how inclined you are to learn new things on Steam).
I did a effort and unbanned you. Now your turn.
My turn? For what? I'm not really eager to comment on a place where you play God. Especially when you don't fully understand what harassing means. I have no guarantees that I'll spend a lot of time there trying to find a solution with you and then I'll be banned and all my comments (and work) deleted because I "harassed" you.
You already have been offered plenty of good solutions to this problem, but you either ignore them or don't want to discuss them (or don't want to put an effort to learn how to go ahead with those solutions).
From better to worse:
- Give all the keys to OtakuMaker, as you promised
- Give all the keys to OtakuMaker, as you promised, fixing a limit date for their activation. After that specified date revoke all UNUSED keys you sent to OtakuMaker. This solution has been used in many bundles, and is commonly used by Humble Bundle when they give away free games. This solution was provided by McSnake (whom you blocked on the MechDefender Steam community).
- Ask OtakuMaker how many unique buyers each bundle had. Send them only that number of keys, so every purchaser will only receive one Steam key per game and bundle (you'll screw up a lot of people who bought multiple copies of the bundle -Sandoukos and myself included-).
- Send OtakuMaker as many 90% discount coupons (in the form of Steam keys -you'll have to learn how to do it, though) as copies of your game were purchased, so people can still get your games on the Steam store, but with a fair discount. I know you've already stated that you don't want to do this, but it's the only solution I can think of that would benefit you without screwing too much the bundle purchasers. Be prepared for a lot of angry people who are not going to like that solution, though.
Besides those solutions, I really can't think of anything. Again, providing individual solutions to individual people is not a solution (and is not efficient). It's also very discriminatory, because (like in Sandoukos' case) you'll be sending the keys to some individuals while declining to send keys to other individuals that are in the same situation (group buys bundle purchasers are no different from regular, individual, private bundle purchasers, you can't send keys to one group and not to the other).
See? I also did an effort to provide solutions. I bet you will ignore those again.
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There are 7 messages from you like this. That is too much for me to handle. And I d like to megre all your messages in one, and answer them via single post. I'll do that, spell check that via my friend, and post it in my group. I'll post link here. (That will take some time - since I'm not just writing tons of text).
If you like long-reading - I would recommend you a book - "American Gods". Intresting book! I'm now reading it along with watching awesome tv series. Anyone else hooked on it?:)
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And since you keep harassing me via others and harassing others who is think differently then you. I d like to ask you - to stop it.
You welcome to participate. Ill even unban/unblack list you - if you will stop your harassment.
I'll be polite for the last time.
First of all, I'm not harassing anyone else but you. Who did I harass?
Secondly, I'm not harassing you. I'm not even arguing, I'm just trying to explain why I'm right. And giving proof and reasoning on why you're wrong and why it looks like that you had all of this planned from the start (see comment above).
Finally, your giveaway solution doesn't work (Sandoukos already explained you why). On one hand, you'd still need to make giveaways for "MechDefender", "Royal Offense", "Super Sports Surgery: Rugby" and "Royal Blacksmith". Doing a massive giveaway just for "MechDefender" wouldn't work since you'd still owe the rest of greenlit games. On another hand, you can't be sure that everyone that bought your game would get a key, since there's no way to announce your giveaway properly to all of them.
Again, I'll be polite and suggest you the right solution. If you want to give one single key to each bundle purchasers (and avoid people who bought bundle packs -like Sandoukos-) you just have to contact OtakuMaker and ask them how many unique buyers every bundle had, then handle only that number of keys. Every purchaser would then get one key per bundle and game, as it seems that that is what you want. I bought 10 copies myself of each bundle (you already know I like to give the extra copies for free here, I don't use them to make a profit) but I'd be willing to accept that "ultimate" solution. The problem is that I'm speaking for myself, and a lot of people who bought more than one copy of the bundles (like Sandoukos) still won't be happy with that solution (and as a multiple-pack buyer and frequent user of the group buys I can understand why).
That was my last polite comment on the subject and my last friendly advice/suggestion to you. What's coming next based on the solution you provide is an official letter to Valve detailing everything that has happened, and every single detail that proves that you abused the Greenlight system (I've already saved your greenlight announcement, including the graph that proves that your voting came from being on the OtakuMaker bundle and the subsequent promise of Steam keys to buyers/voters, go delete it if you want) and the Steam rating system (feel free to delete those fake reviews, I also have saved them for later use). I'm really dying to find out what Valve will think about all of this situation when it's explained to them in detail, with all your polite comments and correct bans ("boring", "spam", "lol"), and reasoning everything (rest assured I'll try to get as much information and help from OtakuMaker as I can too, including your bundle contracts and a newsletter asking bundle purchasers to send a copy of the complaint to Valve themselves). That said, I promise you I won't harass them if they think differently than me (but I have the feeling they won't be happy with what has happened here).
Moving on.
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Plz, stop requesting me to find a proof of your behavior. But, ok, last time:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/tXdXF/keys-for-translations#Sb7NJYV
(this is boring)
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No comments on the solution I suggested you? And yeah, I see a lot of people there who think differently thank me. A LOT. ALL OF THEM, IN FACT!!
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You writing too much text to handle in one post. I were answering about greenlight data. Plz check. No need to rush me =)
And I think proper tnx for finding a posts for you - is in order. But Im not insisting. Finding posts - took some time - just hang there - Ill answer all in order.
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You've yet to answer points made in posts from weeks ago. You constantly skip coherent, well written, and even polite arguments explaining your obvious responsibility and need to fulfill your promises. If you even respond to them, you still only hone in on select words to repeat the same talking repeat the same talking points over and over. It's exactly why you've seen the levels of animosity and insults that have come your way since you started this whole pathetic mess.
No one is really interested in waiting for you to keep doing the same thing over and over. You have what has got to be one of the largest confirmation biases this world has ever seen. Nothing you've said or done has proved anyone wrong, or even justified the actions you've taken as logically consistent with anything other than your perspective of self interest---and that's not even your actual self interest since, nothing here has benefited you. You're flailing around while literally everyone else who reads about this situation sees how incredibly, incredibly wrong you are. You can't stop yourself from digging yourself deeper and deeper into this hole; all while this crowd that formed around continues to grow, with everyone mesmerized by how far you can keep digging before you realize you're in a damn hole.
You won't get to negotiate your way out of this. You won't get to bargain a median. You won't ever find yourself leaving better off for being such an incredible prick about everything here. For any PR fuckup, the cost of reestablishing goodwill is always steeper than the original cost would have been. Right now--at best--you can merely keep your word and deliver exactly what you owe, to the exact people owed, exactly like you should have. There are no other solutions.
Send the damn keys to OtakuMaker you bloody fool. This is just cringeworthy.
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Ok, I'm done with this. I tried to be polite for one more time but it seems impossible to reason with you, I just wrote a long text (I know you don't like them, but hey, it's needed to reason things) and you just ignored everything it. You asked me what I thought about the giveaway, I gave you a long, detailed and reasoned answer to that, and you just ignored it.
Let's face it, it's impossible to reason with someone who wears a t-shirt that reads "I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right". That alone tells a lot about you.
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About solutions - https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/XomsN/otakumaker-greenlight-bundle-7#ylMUUsa
I already answered.
We can continue there - no need to double-treding.
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Ok, I read it!
So, yech - I stay corrected.
Lest continue what he started(since he was the first who mention 10keys bundles) - no need to interrupt him - https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/XomsN/otakumaker-greenlight-bundle-7#Z3xhXOi
I`ll add one extra post now - I think I get a extra profile - since you explained why you need so many keys.
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OtakuMaker decided to replace "MechDefender" Steam keys with "Bunker 58" and "Project RPG".
I hope they will try to contact Valve somehow and explain to them what happened with this developer. If they really have a contract with him and I was OtakuMaker, I'd try to have this guy and his games banned from Steam. And they're the ones in the best position to do so.
Hello
We decided to replace the games "MechDefender"We are sincerely sorry for this inconvenience,
We have decided to replace the game with this :4- Bunker 58 - Steam Key : Release 10 June, 2017
10- Bonus : Project RPG - Steam Key : Release 10 Jan, 2017
| GAME | RATINGS | CARDS | BUNDLED | RETAIL PRICE |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bunker 58 | - of 4 Reviews | ❤ | 1 | $5.99 |
| Project RPG | 29% of 44 Reviews | ❤ | 1 | $2.99 |
Retail: $8.98
CV: 0.8985
Warning:
You cannot create giveaways for the following games: "Project RPG"
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OtakuMaker Greenlight Bundle #7
Lasts from 19 October to 26 November 2016
$1.99 for 9 games!
Promotion:
Your bundle purchase confirmation will be sent within maximum of 24 hours
Other Notes:
$1.99
Projected Retail Price (if all games are GreenLit): $23.91
Projected CV: 3.58
Q+A Section
Q: What is Steam "Greenlight"?
A: This is Steam Greenlight
Remember to VOTE "yes" for the games you would like to hopefully get Steam keys for in the future.
Q: So .. When do I get the Steam keys though?
A: You will get Steam keys when 1) The game gets enough Yes votes to become GreenLIT, 2) The dev of the game releases the keys, and 3) OtakuMaker distributes the keys to you
Are you interested in knowing other ongoing bundles? Feel free to check out the new master thread!
Wondering what games you already own from this bundle? There's an extension/UserScript for that! It's called the RaChart™ Enhancer!
Thanks Rachel. Thanks Sighery.
PS: I forgot to make a poll. Sorry MilleW (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻
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