Should steam accept Bitcoins as a valid payment method?
Of course I'd accept bitcoins, you're losing customers if you don't do. You can change bitcoins for "real" money anytime, and there are platforms which already do it for you. You create an account, accept payments in bitcoins in your store but you receive real money in return.
For example, when Humble Bundle don't accept Bitcoins in some bundles, they sell less.
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And, totally coincidentally, the price of those games on the grey market drops less.
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Do you think this happens because of the low/no transaction fees with Bitcoin? or something else?
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Because it's an open secret that Chinese and a few Russian groups mine the most bitcoin. And also not so secret that these groups (mostly the latter) buy large amounts of bundle keys with the intent of selling it later on the grey market. (These keys are not only cheap, but even they get ROW ones, which is rather important, since ROW keys very rarely can get denied for anyone, regardless of their location.)
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Well, unless you have at least 4 GTX Titan X cards on a single mobo to join, you hardly have any chance to get in anyway. ^^
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The amount you'll mine will barely pay for the increase in your power bill.
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Yeah I know I did most of the mining six years back
even with hardware prices nowadays just not worth it.
I wish I had an hydro/solar energy setup
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Back then no one ever thought the prices would skyrocket like they did. There was a point when 1 BTC costed 1000$, when a couple years before they were sold for pennies. Whoever got his hands on BTC back then and stored them, made some good money.
Most of the people now make profit from trades with BTC and even this is a risk to take and may lose you money instead.
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yeah I hate myself a lot knowing I couldve retired
I even predicted the pricerise
But my friiends too retarded and bought drugs instead rather then investing w me
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Drugs are always good! Remember kids, if anyone ever offers you drugs take them, they are expensive as fuck :D
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The problem in your "advise" is that those who offer them free expect you use them then.
Anyone giving free drugs is expecting it to be an investment, instead of a gift (yes, I'm also including those who give them as part of a flirting strategy).
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Dude you need to work on your humour :D
Plus not everyone gives them with the expectation of gaining something out of it. There are tons of people doing so just because let's say, they are good people.
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Well, my answer had humour implicit, or at last on the situations I was imagining while writing it :P.
And not really, at least to not close friends, in which case also is expecting they will some day get something in return. Never talked about money btw, how you value emotions, shared ins and outs, sex,...
LOL to fit it on-topic, drugs can be a currency :D
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I'd had many strangers (not dealers) offering me who I never saw again in my life, so yeah miracles happen :D
Drugs are of course a currency, in the underworld :)
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Bitcoin was to an extent a Ponzi scheme
some of those who got in early got lots out of it (obviously). The inventor got rich, no one has ever seen him (kinda, as far as I know, might be outdated now)
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Actually, yes, because this way these groups get the better of the profit for a good amount of indie games, and their host grey market site gets even more money for shameless self-advertising, which only stuffs their pockets, since zero of that money goes back to the games' creators.
If they would act like as any other grey/black market anywhere, keeping it in the shadows, it wouldn't be that bad. But they are anything but quiet.
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Are you talking about G2A and websites like that? If that is illegal they'll have to close sooner or later... Nothing to do with bitcoins. When you buy something with real money in Humble Bundle, donate 100% to charity and resell the keys in the grey market the developers do not see money either.
But, when you buy something with bitcoins in Humble Bundle and you choose to donate 100% to developers they get real money from HB in return. And they get more money because the transfer fee is much lower than Paypal/credit card. What's the problem with BTC in this case?
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No, it's perfectly legal. But to show you the magnitude…
Strider was in the recent Capcom Humble Bundle in the 1 USD tier, along with three other games. So it cost 25 cents to get. The current lowest price is 1.09 USD. One can say, yes, only 74 cents. I say yes, 300%+ profit rate, and none of those profit goes back to the publisher and developer.
Now imagine if Steam would sell you games like this. The only difference is that people on G2A gladly pay the several hundred per cent profit rates for the illusion of getting a "good deal". It's typical Apple syndrome, only in another magnitude.
Plus: not to mention that it's a matter of time until publishers get fed up that a good portion of their PC profits go to a site whose owners are not even known and just say "fuck PC altogether".
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You're not answering me. Please, explain me what's the difference for the developer, they get "real" money no matter the customers buy the bundles with bitcoins or money. You're blaming the currency and I say you're wrong.
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I'm not blaming the currency.
But bitcoin farming is essentially a way of making money on your own. Yes, it costs money in the form of a hefty power bill, but again: you can make 100-300% profit with it with the method I described above. So if you can use your more-or-less "free money" to get even more bundles for this profit rate, this just gives more money to people who are bigger leechers on the video game industry than any similarly so-called person here ever will be.
And it can be a possibility, considering there are "people" (meaning: groups) on G2A with 5 and 6 digit in their number of sold keys. I don't think we need to open up the floodgates and let them get even more real money with a currency that is not even recognised by many parts of the globe and has no real supervision behind it. Don't forget: it is difficult to exchange bitcoin into real money. Bundle games would be another great opportunity to launder it without any kind of hassle.
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Bitcoin is created the same way as "real" money, that's why I write "real" with quotes. What we call "real" money is created pushing the button of a printer when some politician or minister wants to promote inflation to the economy of his country.
And I'll tell you more: farming bitcoins actually costs money (electricity bill), "real" money is totally free to create, it is only a decision depending on the economical situation of a particular country. I will not explain it more deeply because we will end up discussing about economy and that will be off-topic.
You're still blaming the currency, think about it. Nobody puts a gun in the head of developers to publish their games on bundles. Prices drop because of bundles, not currencies. The developer always get the same money (actually more if you pay in bitcoins), no matter you pay in dollars, rubles or bitcoins.
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We could go into economics, but would be pointless. My final word is this: China's central bank didn't ban bitcoin, but "advises" businesses not to accept it. In Russia, it is simply illegal to use bitcoin. So letting bundle sites accept bitcoin for keys that are sold for dollars or euros = another gateway for legal money laundering for Chinese and Russian bitcoin miner groups.
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China, Russia... we are talking about democratic countries, those are dictatorships xD
And a big "NO", you're not laundering money exchanging a widely accepted currency like BTC for another one. I think you don't know what money laundering really is... FYI, the biggest money laundering place in the world is the City of London. And that money is laundered for "real" money all the time.
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IMHO one of the main reasons they'll probably never accept Bitcoins is that the BTC economy is unstable af. Plus it is kinda considered as money money laundering as it is not being taxed and it is illegal in some countries.
I highly doubt bit companies will ever get into the BTC thing. Sure it may attract some more customers but it is a cryptocurrency after all and not real money.
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When you buy anything with bitcoins you pay your taxes too. Try to buy something in Indiegala from Europe, you'll pay the VAT too.
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You pay the tax in BTC which is equivalent with some amount of real money in that particular time. If anything happens to the exchange rate of BTC to USD/EURO etc you may end up paying more or less to the government.
If governments won't accept cryptocurrencies as a method of online payment, I can't see this scene growing further than it already did.
EDIT: Plus you don't pay taxes on every market. There are countless markets which operate based on BTC and they pay no taxes. They can't hunt them because they don't get "real money" just some cryptocurrencies.
EDIT2: One more negative thing about BTC is that many times it is associated with illegal activities on the Internet. While this happens I can't see anyone taking it seriously.
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If I have a store that accepts bitcoin as a form of payment I will always get the currency I want through a service. So the exchange rate is irrelevant for me, any time. It all happens in real time.
The most illegal activities in the world (human trafficking, drugs, organs, weapons...) are associated with "real" money, always. Why do you trust in dollars for example? You can buy a child or a kidney with them...
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If I have a store that accepts bitcoin as a form of payment I will always get the currency I want through a service. So the exchange rate is irrelevant for me, any time. It all happens in real time.
If you wanna accept BTC why would you rush to exchange them into real money? That's it because BTC has no power as a currency and most people would rather exchange it into real money instead of trading with it.
EDIT: I for example lost 0.15 cents out of my 2$ today because of the market drop. Just in couple hours no more. Now let's imagine how big of a lose it may be for a company trading with thousands of those.
EDIT2: Plus there are huge fees in BTC exchange (atm at least).
The most illegal activities in the world (human trafficking, drugs, organs, weapons...) are associated with "real" money, always. Why do you trust in dollars for example? You can buy a child or a kidney with them...
There is no difference for me but for the government. I couldn't care less if human traffickers, drugs/weapons/organ dealers would get payed in BTC,$ or Euros. The difference is that if I have 10k$ in BTC no one will ever ask where I got this from, in contrast to real money.
There is no control over BTC from the government and that's why big corporations like Steam, Ebay, Amazon etc will never accept it (These of course are assumptions based on my opinion and this may not happen). I really wish cryptocurrencies got into the game, as I am fan of them, I just can't see it happening for tons of reasons.
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I'd rush to exchange them into real money because of its volatility (I agree with that) and because in my supermarket don't accept bitcoins yet :(
But when you have a store you don't suffer those market drops because you get the exchange rate of that particular moment. If a game costs $5 you'll get $5 whatever the exchange rate is. There are fees too when you accept Paypal/credit card payments and when you exchange any currency.
I don't mind about what the government says because I believe in freedom. If I want to accept candies in exchange for my goods is my decision. Later I will pay my taxes as everyone does, exchanging those candies for the corresponding currency.
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The exchange on Paypal/credit cards is nowhere near the exchange rates on BTC. In big amounts the fees are enormous (which is probably due to it's volatility). Plus the instability of it's price is so big that you have to constantly exchange them so that you won't risk losing anything and if the loss in 2$ may be like 5 cents I don't even wanna imagine how much it becomes with a couple thousands.
I really wanna see BTC growing and becoming a thing (at least on the digital goods) but as I said many times above I just can't see this happening. If it didn't happen back when it's price skyrocketed, the possibilities of it becoming in the near future are slim.
I was glad to make this conversation with someone who seems to be interested in BTC. Let's both wish the BTC community will grow and we will all gain something out of it. Since then we can continue buying with $, Euros etc :D
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If you have a store and receive hundreds or thousands (Humble Bundle, Indiegala...) of payments daily, you can negotiate the fees as you do with credit card companies and Paypal. That is not a problem. I don't use bitcoins regularly (because I don't need it), but as an Internet virtual store you can't lose potential customers so you must accept them. Not everyone in the world has access to credit cards. We believe "the world" is Europe and the USA.
Cryptocurrencies are very new and they will grow for sure while there's freedom on the Internet.
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Yeah, Bitcoin's very volatile, but then again, all they need is a large bitcoin exchanger like coindesk or coinbase
to cash any bitcoin they get into real cash. Who cares if the price drops 20% tomorrow when they can sell them
like instantly? Other official resellers like humblebundle, indiegala and even gamesplanet already do accept bitcoin.
I think it's only a matter of time until others adopt them.
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The problem is that there should be someone willing to buy the BTC. Whoever mines or gets BTC on his hands tries to exchange them into real money. There is no market based on BTC like there is based on real money and barely anyone wants to sell something for BTC instead of real money.
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The market price reflects what people are willing to pay for it. We'll see over time if that price is accurate, or it's gonna fall, maybe even rise.
However, saying that nobody wants BTC while 1 BTC costs about $300 is simply not true. The main issue simply is to overcome distrust, it's (fairly) new, people wonder if it's safe, there are certai issues, like all transactions being final, but apart from that there's a hard coded limit
to how many bitcoins can exist in total, so mining won't produce an unlimted supply, meaning btc will always be worth something. Combine that value with lightning fast transactions and low fees and you have somethign with real potential.
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There of course is potential but like I said I can't see it getting any bigger (I wish what I say will not become truth, I really do). There is barely any trust in them by big companies. Yeah I know IG, HB, Groupees accept them but these are little companies (Plus when HB features a bundle of a big publisher e.g Capcom or the previous Borderlands one they remove the BTC option). It's not just Steam alone or Amazon or w/e.
There are tons of people you need to convince that it is really worth it to be used instead of USD, Pounds or Euros. In the end, why would I risk my money on BTC while I can get "real money" instead? Big companies will almost always take the safe road, we are talking about loads of money here after all.
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+1; most vendors raise their price by 5% to 10% above the Bitstamp asking price due to the market being so unstable, to me it seems like a bad idea in progress. What you can do though is sell your BTC to a gift card trader like Gyft and get a gift card, although most of the time you loose about 5% of its value
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Explain that and I will explain you how wrong you are.
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Bitcoins You must changes for normal money,but You must trade,than You cant get always same amount,You must changing everyday prices.,because bitcons are "virtual".
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You can set your price in dollars and insta-sell the bitcoins you receive for "real" money (there are a bunch of sites that offer this, mainly Coinbase and Bitpay). That's how all the bundle sites do it.
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So what? games are virtual products, too. There's volatility with other currencies too, just think of the recent decrease in value of the Russian rubles, yet Valve still accepts payments in rubles. They probably also pay fees to exchange any foreign currencies they get into dollars. The only diffrence is that the bitcoin price riss or falls even faster, but they probably can also exchange them faster.
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Dollar is overrated, it's just a piece of paper just like every other currency. I don't see why people hate Bitcoin so much just for being a digital currency (is not like you use physical dollars to buy games :P), I buy all my bundles with bitcoin and when I can't do that, I just sell some for Paypal and get those (mainly from Bundlestars and some Humble bundles).
Should Steam accept Bitcoin? if you would ask me that a few years ago, I would say no, because everyone would use VPNs to get Russian games for cheap and send these to your main account, and since Valve can't check from where your Bitcoin come from, it would be really hard to stop these people. Now with all the region locks that they've implemented, I see no reason to not accept Bitcoin.
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Nope Bitcoin is a currency that is on the way to irrelevancy. No point wasting resources to implant it as option. And even then the data show that there isn't lot of people who use it to buy stuff...
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That's exactly the problem. The problem is that there are barely any users of BTC. Almost no one will invest for example, 100$ and buy BTC's in order to buy games or PC hardware etc.
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And that's exactly my point. Instability, small market, no trust in it by anyone. Whoever gets his hands on BTC tries immediately to exchange them into real money. If it was as great as many may say, you wouldn't bother to exchange it, would you?
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Bitcoin is BS and it's been scammed way too much. It's BS.
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I actually almost started using Bitcoin yesterday, I got the wallet and everything. But I hear how its so unregulated so the risk is high. I'd rather not :\
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even this just hatched chick knows: Dogecoins are the future, invest today:
http://dogecoin.com/ - srsly guise act fast act & act now !!!711eleven
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Bitcoin price keeps rising, so I'm not sure how they can do that, but of course I would like to see them accepting it.
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People won't rely on this new currency unless its value becomes totally stable. I think most of their circulation now is due to investment. The value against real currency will drop soon after investors lose their interest in it.
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I have been thinking a lot about Bitcoin lately. My question is, what do you think about Bitcoin and its use in on line game vendors?
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