Thank you for the screenshot, I'm one of those social media potatoes who usually have trouble finding the continuation of stuff xD
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Direct link to the reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/humblebundles/comments/hw2asf/a_temporary_pause_in_giveaways/
I'm using steam keys instead of gift links since years. This is also a reason why I prefer Fanatical over Humble. Fanatical seems to be totally fine with Steamgifts.
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Original link: https://twitter.com/humblesupport/status/1286061511702720515
You missed the follow up on reddit: https://ww.reddit.com/r/humblebundles/comments/hwchm1/the_future_of_the_subreddit/
Meaning, that reddit group has all but shut down in wake of the news.
As for the main reason for the bans,. most of those are users that buy the 1$ tier on giveaways a few dozen times, then sell those keys on G2A etc. Or people with more than one account, buying bundles to get the humble monthly on top of the rest of the bundle - which they sell in parts for TF2 and CSGO keys,.
Mosts normal users will not be affected by this "I hope",. though I've sent a mail to HB to clarify their public statement,.
I suspect I'll just get an automated response,. but who knows. Either way this puts a dark shadow on steamgifts, barter, and ever so many other sites, facebook trading groups, steam trading groups and the list goes on.
I can't fathom they are actually being serious,. but if they are it's a game changer for their whole business. And probably not for the better.
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I might ask if they don't want people to share stuff. Why not dissallow buying multiple copies from one account and from one payment method?
Could still allow gifting whole bundles to existing accounts.
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Don’t they?
I thought you were limited to two bundles per account, and double dipping the nonthly
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I'm pretty sure I read at some point that HB support told someone he is free to create new accounts, if he wants more bundles. That was probably quite a while ago, though.
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sorry to Hijack your comment, but I seriously want to ask you. How does a SG team see this issue with HB? Are you planning on doing any statement or anything? Or not yet or you are not in that kind of relationship with SG? Asking this since you are a support, which might be interesting to have some insights about this whole situation.
If you can't answer any of my questions, I understand. Just let me know
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when they say they cannot condone giving away keys... does this mean that they can track those as easily as the gift links? I thought giving keys was safer but now I'm not sure
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IMHO: technically the key is revealed on their website... so if they want they could easily track those. People who think keys are safer (aka anonymous) are fooling themselves.
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Excuse me, could you please explain me how are they able to track activation keys?
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keys are unique. If they saw it again they can know to whom it was sold. It's also possible to know if it was activated or not yet.
only thing they don't know is on which steam account it is activated. (but if you've linked your steam account to your HB account I think they can make a fair deduction - not sure what access the linking give them to be honest)
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Where can they see that activation key again? Only Steam has access to check if it is activated or not.
Activation keys is nearly impossible to check for the 3rd party company. Only Valve can do that.
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Who are they to tell me that I can't give stuff to my enemies?
I wonder are the publishers behind this or what is really the issue?
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more likely Humble's (read: IGN's) greediness, so people must buy bundles themselves, just for couple games :P
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They are a private company, so if they want to refuse to sell to me in the future, they can do that, but they cannot tell me what to do with a product I already purchased. I own that product and will do whatever I want with it.
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In most countries that is not valid. Once someone has sold a product they no longer have control over it. They can refuse to carry on serving you in future as a customer of course.
Just imagine if you bought a software (non-drm) or physical product and you could only sell it back to the manufacturer/vendor or not at all.
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They can refuse to do further business with me for any reason they want, but what they already sold me is mine to do whatever I want with. Once I buy something, I own it, and I can sell, trade, give away, burn, bury, eat, use it to beat someone with, stick it in places that I won't mention, or anything else I want.
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Exactly I for one will sue them for all the purchases I have ever made if they disable my account...
Only reason to revoke access is chargeback and even that to specific product...
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Do they just prevent your account from making further purchases or do they lock you out of your account so you can't access what you already purchased? If they lock you out completely it would cause problems. I don't know how that would play out in court because if you didn't use all they keys and you were locked out, they sold you something you didn't get, but they probably have the right to lock you out of their site. I would think if they wanted to completely lock you out, they should have to email you a copy of all they keys you already purchased or provide a refund. Providing a refund would be difficult though because it would be near impossible to find out what keys have or haven't been used and they wouldn't be able to refund partial bundles because there is no set value to each game in the bundle.
So, they would have to leave you with access to already purchased keys or send you a copy of everything you purchased.
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That's crazy. I would want access to the keys or a refund for anything I didn't activate. If they refused to provide me with what I purchased or a refund, I would do a chargeback for anything I still can. I would imagine this has happened to some people in California, they should take them to small claims court. Humble probably wouldn't even show up and you would win the case. If they did show up, I don't see how Humble could win.
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It really is interesting to see the vastly different attitudes between Fanatical and Humble when it comes to gifting/trading.
Fanatical literally offers multiple copies of each of its bundles, right on the checkout page... while Humble seems determined to be the gifting police. "Hey, we saw that gift you sent -- was that REALLY a friend of yours? Prove it -- who was their 3rd grade teacher?"
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Yeah it's creepy. I dare not risk anything with Humble regarding this. My account has too much stuff, not backed up anywhere.
I still enjoy the monthly. Great value as a classic sub. But as for shopping anything else.. Na. I go to Fanatical for that.
who was their 3rd grade teacher?"
-Mine was called, Sven... Just...fyi.. y'know ^_^ Now it's out there.
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Not to even talk about IG which entire model seem to have been traders. By them running happy hours with gift options regularly...
And then adding trading and giveaways right there on the site. Now broken, but still point stands...
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IG even have a giveaway system on their webpage. They look like cool dudes, sadly their bundles doesn't go with me most of the times.
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Yes, I understand they are trying to cut down on key resellers but if something buy one bundle and give the key they don't want it's unfair to suspend them for it. That's how they make their money because I definitely wouldn't buy a bundle for one game I want if I couldn't give the rest of the key to someone who will use them.
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No issues here as not every site has the option to gift I found that feature was useless to me personally. I would always generate the key and store them together in notepad when I saw some links would run out of keys in the past. I would guess their system sees an account gifting games to 100-1000+ different emails and gets flagged. Personally I don't mind others using gifts or receiving gifts, but I think humble should warn paying customers when generating a gift that there are limitations if they plan to ban them. Happy trading/gifting!
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Just got the following reply from HB:
Hello there,
Thank you for reaching out to us here at Humble Bundle Support with your concerns about giveaways on Reddit. I apologize if my reply via social media seemed ambiguous to you and I will do my best to clear up any confusion about this reply.
Please note that unauthorized secondary distribution of games purchased through Humble Bundle is a violation of our Terms of Service. This, unfortunately, includes the trading of game keys for other keys or reselling to other users.
When we state that items purchased via Humble Bundle are intended for personal use and limited gifting to family and friends, we are referring to personal relationships and well-known friends. One of the many reasons we recommend gifting to those that you already know is so that the gift recipient can easily get in contact with you again should there be any issues with the game key received. Sometimes gifted keys don't quite work out due to various problems and, if the key was received via trade or giveaway, we would not be able to provide support because the method in which the key was received violates our Terms of Service.
We do not condone trading or reselling keys, but gifting is perfectly fine; we typically recommend gifting to a personal friend or family member, as highlighted in our article. If you are a Humble Partner that has received a key as part of the program, those can be given or raffled away. Raffles can use Humble keys as a reward - just make sure you do not require a form of payment as an entry requirement.
It should be noted that both trading and reselling keys on the “grey market” has a negative effect on the industry’s ability to flourish and support our awesome developers. While I am very sorry to hear that this policy has had a negative impact on the Humble Bundle Reddit community, we are doing our best to mitigate the issues brought about by the trading and reselling of keys and must take action against activities that appear to be violating our Terms of Service.
This does not mean we discourage gifting or being generous, but we do ask that our users avoid purchasing or trading keys with secondary distributors and send gifts to those they are close to instead.
Again, my sincerest apologies for the upset this has caused to your community. Please let me know if you have any further concerns or questions and I'll do my best to clear them up.
All the best,
-Crystal
Humble Bundle
http://support.humblebundle.com/
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So what they are saying is, that they don't think gifting is bad, they just want you to do it with friends you know irl, becasue otherwise if key is faulty they can't provide support since it is against their ToS. Then they say that they want to sell keys on grey markets, even tho pages like kinguin have in their ToS that you can't sell Humble keys there.
in the end they say: >This does not mean we discourage gifting or being generous, but we do ask that our users avoid purchasing or trading keys with secondary distributors and send gifts to those they are close to instead.
So you are telling me you are okay with me gifting games, just to not do it for any financial gain, indicating that I can give it to basically anybody.
I have read their reply several timees and still can't quite comprehend how they are stating different things in every paragraph. Like what the hell?
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That's actually quite interesting, as Crystal suggests that offering support is the reason why they want people to gift to family / close friends. That would be more of a preference, not a restriction.
Excellent stuff how they are sending mixed signals on this matter.
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And another followup
Crystal (Customer Service)
Jul 23, 2020, 2:55 PM PDT
Hi again,
I am unable to go into direct details leading up to what causes an account to get disabled. What I can say is that any activities that appear to directly violate our Terms of Service may result in action being taken.
These hypothetical situations are all cases that could potentially be reviewed. Each scenario is reviewed on a case-by-case basis, so it's impossible for me to give the firm answers you are seeking. In the event that an account has been disabled, users are encouraged to reach out to us so that we can have a specialist review the details further.
For questions related to our partner program, it would be best to reach out to partners@humblebundle.com for further clarification. Keep in mind that we do not provide direct support for keys received during a giveaway; if there is an issue with the key, we would not be able to assist.
While I cannot guarantee we can take immediate action, you can rest assured that I am sharing your feedback and concerns for these communities with the rest of the team for further consideration on defining our stance on giveaways. I understand that this has been causing an upset, but this is all of the information I can provide at this time.
Thanks again for reaching out to us and I hope you have a wonderful day!
All the best,
-Crystal
Humble Bundle
http://support.humblebundle.com/
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they say that you can reach to them if your account is disabled but some banned users claim that they refuse to give any support. both messages seem like bs to me
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Exactly. I cant recall when someone posting here has actually received answer after being banned. Only some automated messages about account being perma banned
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yep, that's what i recall as well. Once you are banned they refuse to talk to you and you can't do shit about it
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This is not true what he wrote. My account was banned because I've gived away my games here, on Steamgifts.They're told me that this is reselling and banned my account.
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"Please note that unauthorized secondary distribution of games purchased through Humble Bundle is a violation of our Terms of Service. This, unfortunately, includes the trading of game keys for other keys or reselling to other users."
This specifies trading keys for keys, and reselling of keys for a profit. It does not specify just giving away a key or gift link.
"Sometimes gifted keys don't quite work out due to various problems and, if the key was received via trade or giveaway, we would not be able to provide support because the method in which the key was received violates our Terms of Service."
If I'm reading this correctly, the only reason they would not be able to provide support is because it violates their Terms of Service. If it did not violate their Terms of Service, so long as they were able to contact one, or more likely both parties, I see no reason they could not provide support.
"We do not condone trading or reselling keys, but gifting is perfectly fine; we typically recommend gifting to a personal friend or family member, as highlighted in our article. If you are a Humble Partner that has received a key as part of the program, those can be given or raffled away."
Makes it seem like they play favorites and offer more leeway to "Humble Partners", or at least keys received through that program, which I don't think is generally a good practice.
"Raffles can use Humble keys as a reward - just make sure you do not require a form of payment as an entry requirement."
Is the only thing I could even mildly consider a possible violation for something like Steamgifts. The points could be considered a payment, though for me personally it doesn't seem like that big of an issue. They are generated site-wide for all users up to a limit of 400, based on a percentage of the value of all games being given away on the site. It doesn't require any individual to necessarily make any purchases to obtain (nor are they capable of purchasing points directly through any kind of micro transaction. Unless you consider a small percentage of the points that a user could gain from purchasing and giving away a game a microtransaction, but even at full price that would be a loss, and games bundled or given away free provide less value generally), generally if points are all used one day they'll be at least mostly filled up by the next day (assuming the user base at large has created enough giveaways, which they tend to). Also... This specifies keys, but not gift links? Would it still be fine to use gift links? Is one preferred over the other?
"This does not mean we discourage gifting or being generous, but we do ask that our users avoid purchasing or trading keys with secondary distributors and send gifts to those they are close to instead."
Could also be a potential consideration, as there's no way of knowing for certain if anybody receiving a key or gift link has the intent to trade or resell it. However, I'm pretty sure people can't enter giveaways on this site for any games they already own (except for DLC, or special editions of games). And I'm not 100% certain, but doesn't Steamgifts try to confirm reception of the gift by seeing if it has actually been activated on an individual's Steam account or not? That at least kind of guards against the whole reselling and trading "industry".
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And the latest post with contradictions galore.
Hi again,
After discussing this with the team, I can say that Humble Bundle purchases are for personal use only, and the trading or sale of games bought through Humble Bundle is a violation of our Terms of service; this also includes buying games for giveaways.
In order to support Humble Bundle's mission to be a force for good in the gaming industry, offer amazing deals on bundles, and include great games in Humble Choice, we will continue to enforce our Terms of service.
Can you gift games to friends and family? Of course! Allowing gifting is an important part of Humble Bundle. Though the Terms of service apply to these gifts as well.
Thank you for being a part of the Humble Bundle community.
Take care,
-Crystal
Humble Bundle
http://support.humblebundle.com/
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Humble and IGN aside, I think it's just because of their contract/agreement with other publishers to be able to sell their game's keys. Imho, if you look at it from another side, I certainly don't want a game I wasted like 3 years of my life on to be given away for free in mass volume for sure, and I don't think you want that either.
Like what the above said:
It should be noted that both trading and reselling keys on the “grey market” has a negative effect on the industry’s ability to flourish and support our awesome developers. While I am very sorry to hear that this policy has had a negative impact on the Humble Bundle Reddit community, we are doing our best to mitigate the issues brought about by the trading and reselling of keys and must take action against activities that appear to be violating our Terms of Service.
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From my perspective participating to bundle is selling estimated x number of copies at x price per copy. And it would be up to me to consider if this is reasonable.
Minimum I would expect HB to provide me is the estimated number of copies they will distribute and estimated cut I will receive. Both of these they should have based on historical figures. Then it's up to me to consider if potential loss of that number sales is worth the cut I'm offered...
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...in your quoted section they're discussing legitimately purchased keys. Meanwhile, you're discussing fraudulently purchased keys. Those are two entirely different topics.
trading and reselling keys on the “grey market”
!=
given away for free in mass volume
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i guess it's time to really stop buying games for giveaways from them, they clearly dislike the idea of giveaways or gifting games to random people.
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Not that I disagree, but I'll bet this will go over about as well as not buying games from Steam after they disabled inventory gifts and added all the region restrictions. I'm just as guilty of still buying from Steam, although I have bought way less after they implemented those changes.
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i'll keep using HB if i find something for me or a close relative, but not any more for giveaways. 🤷
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80% of the games I gave away here I bought on Humble... Not only bundles but full price games or games on sale...
I spend over 2000€ over the last 4 years on humble.
I will stop with this. When my classic plan will end I will not renew it and I'll not buy any bundles anymore. I will use g2a, kinguin and stuff or even trade for it. But I'll not buy there anymore.
It's one thing to go after masstraders and stuff but:
"While we welcome gifting keys to well-known friends, we cannot condone gifting away keys on open forums to strangers."
This is a big "FU" to the whole steamgiftscommunity
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I kind of have to point at this comment here that has Humble Support answer. It seems like their problem is, if the key is faulty and that they can't provide support cuz it violates ToS. I will leave my opinion to their answer on his comment in a while
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Tbh. I don't belive this (I mean, I belive that they send you this answer ;) but...)
They could just say "we only give support to the buyer" and end with this. There is no need to lock people out of the account so that they can't even access to the games (drm-free) and keys they bought.
This whole "only to close friends" is stupid. I have friends all over the world from traveling or just from chatting. How should humble know who and how many are "closed" friends...
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did you read what comment I give to it? It is not my comment btw, I just read it and commented on it, whhere I call their bullshit
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I hope when they say "close friends" they are not meaning "only people in your own country." I don't have any real life friends who play video games. Some of my online friends whom I've met via gaming or forums, I've known for more than 10 years and I've sent them the odd game. =/
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This is a big "FU" to the whole steamgiftscommunity
Have you read this FAQ?
Selling or trading keys is strictly prohibited. Gifting keys is perfectly acceptable - however, the gifting function is meant to give a game away to a friend or family member. We do not support situations where you gift a game to receive a reward/payment of any kind (which would include things like rep or points on certain trading sites).
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I really don't even get their stance on this. "Rep" isn't a reward.
It's the equivalent of saying "thanks buddy" when you borrow someone's weed whacker.
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So I take that takes Reddit out as there is up votes there...
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while i'd like this recurrent matter of secondary usage of legally bought keys be escalated to legal instances, i wouldn't f*** myself with g2a :-) ^^
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:/ I hope they can find a way to prevent grey market reselling without banning giveaways...
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humble has changed ever since being acquired by IGN
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We are paying to charity, and even with that we can't give our games to others... Ironic.
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the definitions of "giveaway", "no cost to enter", "friend" are so loose and them trying to fiddle with people's definitions of "friend" and "stranger" and state their nonsensical rules overall, it's funny
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Honestly a terrible decision by humble, definitely going to lose a lot of business from this
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Humble's stance is very disappointing to say the least, mainly because they have the gift link system in place but we are restricted to "very well known friends" AND currently, an increased frequency in repeats (to my vague and totally unverified knowledge).
Either their bundles are selling like hotcakes so they don't have to care about consumer opinion or I don't know, it puzzles me how they have 3 months in a row? of mystery game attached the HB choice which suggests sales aren't great but still come out with BS like this.
Also, hi (づ ◕‿◕ )づ SchizoDoll
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Hello Spudette <3 I am puzzled by their marketing as well, since your goal is to keep customers, not to lure them away.
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if you're a man, you're my father
if you're a women, you're my mother
if you're a young lady, you're my sister
if you're a young lad, you're my brother
so on and so forth.. you get the gist!
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They should be happy to see keys literally being given away, rather than being traded on grey market sites. This is disappointing.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/squashpickle/status/1286046803432034304
Here on this page HumbleBundle subreddit moderator asked about giving away games on their subreddit .
I feel like this was not the best thing Humble did, since I buy bundles just for some games and I do not want the rest. I kind of have no clue how to feel about this.
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