Can you name one console publisher that will say no to free DRM? You know NOT picking DRM would be illegal in many companies? Seriously, MS can extremely easily do the same and "leave" decision to developers, that won't mean 99% of PS4 games won't be DRMed to the top of the box :<
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Sure thing, Wii U, PS3 and Xbox 360 sure are getting a lot of those.... ups!
Dont really care though. If a game uses stupid DRM, Im simply not buying it at all. Quite simple, no? At least there isnt a system-level function for EVERY SINGLE game, and most importantly, PUBLISHERS HAVE TO DEVELOP AND SUPPORT their own drm. What does this means? It means that nobody outside of EA/Ubisoft will use it(and even them will probably just use online passes). Its too expensive for most publishers.
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Except Sony leaves not only the decision the the publishers, but only the same options for them as they always had until now with current-gen. On the other hand, Microsoft went out of their way to provide a DRM friendly environment and design the console so that it specifically uses DRM.
Oh well, in the end, believe and do what you will. Happy gaming! don'ttellmewhattodo!
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they didnt lie. they say you can freely pass your game disc and you can do that, they say you could play it without need of a activation and you can. This drm is something the third party devs can use to ONLY block the online part and it is their thing if they want you to pay extra for use their servers ( i dont agree with this but i just dont buy games with online passes)
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Technically, when you log into your account in friend's XBO you can play it without need for activation, too, no? At least from what I understood, XBO is like steam, Sony is like DRMed DVD, but it can easily be the same DRM as XBO, Sony is 'only' leaving choice to publishers. Who most likely will DRM to the maximum possible.
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so what youre saying is that if i bought a copy of battlefield 4 and wanted to play online id have to put in a code, and if it was a used copy id have to buy a code? man crazy ive never heard of a more insane idea ever why would they do something like this ;) .... or maybe... you mean if i wanted to play assassins creed black flag id have to log into my uplay account even if its on the console... man what is this world coming to!? ;)
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No, i'm saying that game on PS4 can be like on Xbox One, you have to activate to play singla player. I'm not saying about online pass, EA say "No" to online pass, becouse they have something better to destroy used game market.... or maybe EA hates money, and loves when people trade used games?
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"I am on record as being a proponent of used games. I like the ecosystem. I like the fact that it's kept pricing at a good level for eight years. I like the fact that someone can buy a physical game and see some equity in that game. That keeps GameStop vibrant and they are a great launch and marketing partner for us."
Ooops, actually, yes, they like people trading used games.
So much for your arguments bro.
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I very much agree with you, but:
This is not actually a console war. What Microsoft is doing with the Xbox One affects the whole industry in every way and it's bad anti-consumer business practice, and something that shouldn't happen in any industry at all. This isn't your regular console versus console fanboy war. It's a matter of principle and what's right here.
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further proof: EA and Ubisoft actually had nothing to do with this drm. Actually, they favor the used market!
"Polygon: The narrative I've heard is that EA lobbied hard to have the hardware companies come up with a solution so you guys are not faffing around with online passes and you're not losing potential used game profits to retailers.
Moore: "Absolutely incorrect. As the guy who is the chief operating officer of Electronic Arts I can tell you that EA did not aggressively lobby for the platform holders to put some gating function in there to allow or disallow used games. I am on record as being a proponent of used games. I like the ecosystem. I like the fact that it's kept pricing at a good level for eight years. I like the fact that someone can buy a physical game and see some equity in that game. That keeps GameStop vibrant and they are a great launch and marketing partner for us.
"EA has never had a conversation, and I have been present at all of them, with all of the manufacturers, saying you must put a system in place that allows us to take a piece of the action or even stop it. Absolutely incorrect.""
So the PS4 drm situation may be miles better than some doomsayers here are thinking.
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""We cancelled Online Pass. I was at the meeting. It just wasn't resonating with the consumer. It just wasn't consumer friendly. It was hard work and it was as much work for the guy who would never trade his game in, even though we gave him some digital content, because you're punching numbers in. We just made a decision. I was the chair at the meeting. We said enough of Online Pass. Not saying, you know, it was Austin Powers type meeting of Doctor Evils saying [places pinkie finger on eyetooth, Dr. Evil-style] 'we know we can get it back down the road'. No. That was not the meeting I was in. Online Pass was more trouble to the consumer than it was worth. It was a mistake. The consumer's feedback was that this thing gets in the way of a good experience so let's get rid of it.""
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oh hell EA don't like money!
"That keeps GameStop vibrant and they are a great launch and marketing partner for us." EA partnerships with GameStop, so never gone say he wants more restricition in game. Actually it's a good point, there is only one question, how big is Gamestop partnership value to them, but like i say good point.
Do i'm realy doomsayer for you? I didn't understand why people are so scared of DRM, whe got in on PC and we live.
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Its the fact that its built into Microsofts system and requires the online check in and game installation. Sony doesnt have those hooks built into the system, but indee the publishers can make it that you have to sign into their servers and present an pass (like the current online pass) but then the blame goes to the publisher alone. Sony cant stop a game from authenticating with the publishers servers if the publisher really wants it to, just like how it is now. Publishers could of required passes and an internet connection to play the games this gen so Sony didnt lie
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So many spelling errors, please download a spellchecker.
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Not me, just you... It's gone be like this Xb1=Steam (all game in one place) PS4=Steam, Orgin, Uplay, Desura (many diffrent soft DRM control). Yes on new xbox it's in a code, but this is why this option can be better. Note that i'm saying "can be" not "will be".
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Quote: "I know how you love games with DRM, so here you go. Remeber you CANT trade this game, you CANT borrow it, you CAN only play it!"
I know you said it in joke, but I also know you meant it as a stab at what you're trying to prove here and as an example. But it's a bad one. You're comparing a forever digital game on Steam with physical disks from consoles. It's so wrong and redundant it's not even funny.
Microsoft ties the game from a disk to an online account forever, taking away your ownership of the game and being practically a rent, and rendering the disk completely useless. Why waste money and take more money then from players by using disks at all? It's stupid, greedy, useless, anti-consumer bullshit and does not compare with digital game sales a la Steam and nowhere near what Sony is implementing in the PS4. They have said in the E3 press conference AND they have said again after in interviews that the console will keep the same way it has been until now, for PS3 and 360, for the PS4 as well. Publishers can only apply online passes and only to multiplayer components of the game. Period. There's no buts, no between the lines, no nothing else.
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nah... I'm not comparing... But you start it, so do you know that you can actualy buy psychical copy of steam games?!? I know it's crazy... sorry... so in PC and on Console you buy psychical copy, long time ago there wasnt something like steam, and PC brothers could sell there games to friends, and now we have everything in digital. This is happeing on console on Xbox one, and possible on PS4 (becosue why not?).
"Publishers can only apply online passes and only to multiplayer components of the game. Period." Because Sony will not allow for this? They allow for online passes on PS3, and in my opinion they do everything what publishers want.
And no stabing, i was onlu a jokeing. I don't think DRM on PC is bad, it for so many years, so i don't affraid of DRM on console, i even like idea Xbox one DRM becouse i like all games in one place.
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Did you even read what I said? Yes, Sony specifically said they don't allow anything other than online passes, and online passes have been around for years. You were saying at first that the PS4 can reach the same level of DRM of Xbox One. That's how you started this whole thread and that's what I was arguing against.
And the main market for consoles is physical and because it caters to so many people around the world with so many bandwidth limitations, it will still be the main market, and can't go digital yet, which is why it's stupid of Microsoft to try and implement it now. Ask anyone in the business and they'll tell you how it's too early for consoles to go digital. THAT'S why I said you can't compare to PC yet in any way.
PC has always been intertwined (connected) to forms of Internet and such things, the situations completely differ. And just like consoles have main market of physical disks with some digital, so is Steam with main market digital but some physical, and then the disk becomes useless after you activate the code. It's just an example of how things are wrong and cannot work for Microsoft and why Sony AVOIDS it.
Steam also holds less than two thousand titles for the PC, and less than half of them Steam exclusive. PC isn't bound to Steam. The whole console market is bound by their hardware and can't afford to make stupid DRM decisions and go digital yet. Just because Microsoft is doing doesn't mean they're smart to do it, and that's why Sony is not doing it and now allowing it either, they know it's pointless. And the list keeps on going with the many differences and why you can't compare them. Apples and oranges. Thanks for that example. I hope you see it for yourself and stop this non-sense.
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"PC has always been intertwined (connected) to forms of Internet..." You must be young boy...
And yes i read what you said, i read what Sony say, and for me is word game, they say about PS4 disc, not PS4 games. Understand one thing, i say only about what can happen, i'm not saying that will be the future. Sorry but if you belive in 100% what say sony, with not even 1% of doubt you are... no I do not want to offend you but you should always have doubts. Thats my opinion, my doubts can be wrong, maybe will be just like you said, only online pass-es, in this topic i just want to show there is possible diffrent future.
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No, you must be very young. The PC was built around an Internet infrastructure, that was what I meant. Please refrain from using such remarks, they only lessen your argument value.
"they say about PS4 disc, not PS4 games."
You mean the disk that contains the games, right? That's the same thing they're talking about.
That's the whole point, I understand you are talking about what can happen. It's you that doesn't understand that it can't happen because they already said it can't happen. There's no need to talk about what might happen, because it won't.
It's not about believing what Sony 100% says, but about the clear profit (money and publicity as well) they gain from being opposed to Microsoft as competition, which is healthy for everyone, and that I understand the market, and they do too, and I know it's not in their best interest, and as a company they can't back down until the next generation from what they said, it will do nothing but hurt them. I'm not taking their word for it, but making my own logical connections between the market and how companies work and the risks involved.
I wasn't saying you are wrong as a possibility of it happening in the future in general, because not only it can, but it WILL. But both the possibility and probability of it happening during this upcoming console generation are virtually non-existent.
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"Please refrain from using such remarks, they only lessen your argument value." You call me Boy in your very first post here so do not be such a hypocrite ;)
"The PC was built around an Internet infrastructure, that was what I meant." mmm... no... how long you got PC? I've got first PC 22-21 yers ago, and then no body hear about something like "Internet infrastructure" (in my country), yes there was somewhere out there but not many people got access to this technology and no one anticipated that it will become so popular. So telling that PC was built around an Internet infrastructure is not true.
But ok, I see that we agree in some part, except that I feel that Sony still do some trick (they already lied once or two). Now GO and TAKE part in MY GVIEWAY! ;)
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No, they will not do any "tricks". Sorry to dissapoint you, but that is not happening.
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Ok... example, when PS3 was announced:
“We are happy to announce that PlayStation 3 will have backward compatibility…” — former Sony Computer Entertainment chairman Ken Kutaragi
Yes, PS3 had backward in first model (that disappear after 6 months), and even if you got this console they block this option by software in some update.
Sony lies before, can lie now.
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Man, you are a real mental case, arent you?
Yes, PS3 has backwards compatibility. ITS TRUE, you idiot. Then they released cheaper models without BC. They never, ever said that all PS3 would have backwards compatibility. They only said that some models would have it.
AND NOPE, THEY DIDNT BLOCK THE OPTION. Please explain how I still play PS2 games on my 60gb PS3.
Please, stop being a fucking idiot. People who wanted backwards compatibility got it, and still have it. They never promissed it for all consoles. So no, they didnt lie.
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GTFO or don't be such a duchebag...
Ok, they don't block backwards compatibility but they block Linux uses. My mistake, i've remember that i've read somewhere that they blockbackwards compatibility, but maybe that was just a mistake or i've remeber something wrong.
Did even read article that i've sent?
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You are the only one being a fucking douchebag here. Guess what. The policies are the EXACT SAME AS PS3. THEY WILL NOT SUDDENLY PUT A ONLINE CHECK AND A USED BLOCKING DRM AT A SYSTEM LEVEL. That is completely and utterly impossible and you are really dumb if you think that. Sony would be outright killed by the backlash.
And guess what again.... used game blocking is illegal on Europe. Sony is not letting their biggest markets, Europe and Japan go. First, because its illegal, and it would kill playstation in those markets. You are quite out of touch with reality if you think that would happen. Third party can go and try to block used games with their drm... but GUESS WHAT: THEY DONT HAVE THE BALLS - Too much money doing a drm meant for just one system, and it would cause a very,very big backlash.It is simply not worth it. Hell, even Ubisoft,EA and Activision have come to defend used games recently.
So, stop spouting bullshit.
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From both of us i'm a douchebag? Now you went full retard... Did i call you a mental? Did i call you a idiot? I'm only say MY opinion, this is how i see the possible future of PS4, i never said that only my opinion is right but you want that all people think like you. You are blind by your narcissism.
"And guess what again.... used game blocking is illegal on Europe." It is? Realy? So you say that in Europe people can trade used PC games?!? What sorcery is this?!? Sorry... Now you went full retard... If there is no used games on PC there can be no used games on consoles, go read about it if you are that smart...
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You are really trying so hard to spew your lies so hard, aren't you? Sony is not implementing a used game blocking/online check system. This is a fact.
go read european law if you are smart
(Valve is already being sued, btw)
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"Sony is not implementing a used game blocking/online check system. This is a fact." Did you even read what i said? I never, never said that SONY will implementing a used game blocking, I only mention about third party publishers...
I read this law, did you read it? I don't think so...
**1.Article 4(2) of Directive 2009/24/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 April 2009 on the legal protection of computer programs must be interpreted as meaning that the right of distribution of a copy of a computer program is exhausted if the copyright holder who has authorised, even free of charge, the downloading of that copy from the internet onto a data carrier has also conferred, in return for payment of a fee intended to enable him to obtain a remuneration corresponding to the economic value of the copy of the work of which he is the proprietor, a right to use that copy for an unlimited period.
2.Articles 4(2) and 5(1) of Directive 2009/24 must be interpreted as meaning that, in the event of the resale of a user licence entailing the resale of a copy of a computer program downloaded from the copyright holder’s website, that licence having originally been granted by that rightholder to the first acquirer for an unlimited period in return for payment of a fee intended to enable the rightholder to obtain a remuneration corresponding to the economic value of that copy of his work, the second acquirer of the licence, as well as any subsequent acquirer of it, will be able to rely on the exhaustion of the distribution right under Article 4(2) of that directive, and hence be regarded as lawful acquirers of a copy of a computer program within the meaning of Article 5(1) of that directive and benefit from the right of reproduction provided for in that provision."**
This means the original provider of the product (like Ubisoft or EA) has no obligation to support the resale of its digital games, the ruling means that a third party company (like Valve) could swoop in and legally facilitate used digital software sales. This is why PC games on disc can't be resale, and Valve change his Steam license agreement (now we don't have games but we rent them from Valve be Steam).
Maybe start to read and be more polite to people. Your opinion is not necessarily others opinion, learn that.
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Wait, the guy who called me a retard is telling me to be more polite? Gotcha. And no. That law means that they must authorize used softare sales. Please, do read again. Hence more, Sony did not lie. They already said is up to the publishers. ITS THE EXACT SAME FUCKING THING AS PS3
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Its just as possible as it was with the PS3, there isnt anything Sony can do to stop them from adding in restrictions. On the other hand its built right into the xbone, especially with the 24 hour login "feature".
Steam is a bit different because we dont have to use it. There are a small number of steamworks titles that require steam but the rest can be found elsewhere. The closest thing to an alternative in consoles will be multiplatform games on the PS4 making sony's decision all that much more important.
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I think You're like one of those people who can't read... I give just an idea, i'm not saying that this is future, i'm just saying that big "NO TO DRM" on Sony conference can mean only no DRM in sony games but in other you will see it... thats all. Hard to understand?
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Which should have been obvious :p What's the point of this topic? A shitload of newssites made a big story of this even though it's nothing... They are just trying to make Sony look bad for no reason, damn xbox fanboys! :p
It's still like PS3, publishers don't need Sony to add extra DRM... Remember on disk DLC which was locked, or the MP's that require an online pass on x360 and PS3? It's all the same and they could have done it with the full SP too.
Microsoft on the other hand FORCES it to ALL publishers. On PS everyone still has a choice and only the terrible ones like EA will use it (even tho they promised to scrap online passes a few weeks ago, I bet they didn't know Sony still allows reselling etc) :p
Edit: weird I find posts about EA saying they 'probably' will allow us to sell used games, this can't be... the worst company.. :o
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"After my demo, I sat down for a quick chat with The Crew creative director Julian Gerighty. He told me, in no uncertain terms, that The Crew is always-online. Whether you play on console or on PC, you'll need an internet connection to play."
clicky
I even did't know that Division will have singla player, becouse they advert the game like it was going to be a big mmo ;)
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"I asked Gerighty what would happen if someone was playing the game and their internet went down. "They won't be able to save the game, unfortunately," he said. "All our saves are server-based, it's one of those things that this new generation…"
Talking about bullcrap :| Least they could do is a backup on your system that syncs with their cloud when you get back online, or whatever :/
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The game is an MMO. Of course it's server based. However, seems like saves should kinda happen the moment you disconnect if that's the case - much like any MMORPG, one would theoretically think that it would just save you where you were. The character is rather constantly over-written. If it can't save when you're disconnected, that's more of an issue with lazy programming than anything.
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No shit, I don't have a problem with it being server based but I do have a problem with 'They won't be able to save the game, unfortunately'. That's whats my comment was about :p
I don't know a single MMO where I lost my progress when I disconnected (Yes I might have died, Yes my escort quest might have failed but I'm still standing at the same spot in the game and everything I picked up before my DC is still there, etc). Lazy programming indeed.
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Well based on logic form DRM of multiplayer games, i see this going to be the same as it was until now.
You register a key and that game is yours and you can't trade it or nothing pretty much like STEAM only that on steam, every game you buy/add to your account, you can't trade it.
So if i buy a MMO or a multiplayer i think it should be key / account based.
But if i got like a singleplayer game that i played once, and might not even finished it cause i didn't like it or pretty much has no replay value to me, of course i would like to trade / sell that game copy.
So if a Dev comes with a DRM / account based on a single player game.
Check the game before buying it, read / watch reviews, or just don't buy it.
After all dev's want to make money, sometimes some publishers want to milk one cow until it's dead.
So if lets say EA comes with some type of annoying DRM for PS4 on a single player game, i'm just not gonna buy the game.
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PC gamer here so i don´t care. The diference in the DRM cases is you can attack easir a publisher for toxic DRM than attacking MIcrosoft.
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The thing is, you won't be prevented from playing a used or borrowed game because the console itself will NOT REQUIRE an internet connection. Any game that decides that IT must check in is committing the same suicidal act that MS is, and thus, would not be good for sales. Think about that for a second.
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EA: Online Passes "are dead".
EA labels president Frank Gibeau has said the firm nixing Online Pass had nothing to do with Xbox One’s digital rights management system. Speaking with Joystiq at E3, Gibeau said the Online Pass program has been “deep-sixed” and is “at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.”
“We’re not crafting a strategy to bring [Online Pass] back, you will not input codes to unlock your game, it’s not going to happen,” he said, even referring to the Online Pass program at one point as “flat out dumb.”
“The amount of money that we made, it didn’t replace the amount of frustration we put on our customers and it didn’t offset the reputation damage it caused the company,” he continued. “So we said ‘it’s not worth it,’ and so the idea was, look, ‘don’t do stuff like that anymore.’”
Gibeau said the opportunity to “to wipe the slate clean” came about under current interim CEO Larry Probst.
He went on to use FIFA Ultimate Team as an example of continuing to make money off “legitimate” customers who purchase DLC.
“Look, they own it, they bought the disc and it’s theirs. They have a legitimate right for not doing anything illegal,” he said. “If we want to be progressive about it, we will make online services available to them that if they want to buy they can, but they don’t have to. At least that way we participate in some monetization. The reputational damage [Online Pass] was causing us was in excess of the dollars we were making.
“At the end of the day, we’re not going to replace [Online Pass]. It’s not coming back. It’s dead.”
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Sony’s Jack Tretton said: "The DRM decision is going to have to be in the hands of the third parties, yeah, that’s not something we’re going to dictate or control or mandate or implement."
So NO DRM in games from Sony studios but third parties can do what they want ;)
source
[EDIT]
How i see this, , imagine that game devs implaing to the game uplay, and when you first start the game you have to active it in uplay sarvice by lunching a game and use activation code, you creat there your uplay acount and activate game. In this situation Sony dosen't support this but still you can use this game only with your uplay acount. No more used games, like on PC, i'm not telling that this is how it will be but this is possible.
Why i'm saying this? Becouse to many people talks like drama queen about DRM on Xbox One, i'm just showing that on PS4 it's to possible.
And no, i'm not fanboy, if i would gone buy new console i would choose a PS4, it cheper and more powerfull, i don't think in this situation about DRM. MS show future of game publishing on console whether we like it or not.
[EDIT]
I know how you love games with DRM, so here you go. Remeber you CANT trade this game, you CANT borrow it, you CAN only play it!
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