I agree and share your attitude. I would also add DLCs to the list. Back in good days we only had full games and maybe some expansions that added quite a lot to the original game. But now... they give you a DLC that adds skins. Or even worse... it adds stuff that should have been in the game in the first place... wtf is that :(. Luckily there are still good devs like CD Projekt RED.
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How about those day 1 DLC's hahaha such a blatant cash grab scam its unbelievable these companies are still in business.
So let me get this right? You were able to release the retail game and the first DLC on the same day? I wonder why that DLC wasn't part of the base game? Or do people even wonder these days?
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Exactly! It's ridiculous... I just don't understand how people can tolerate this. Just look at Call of Duty series. They release the same game over and over with minor facelifts and add buttload of DLCs to it... and people actually buy it. Also I've heard that EAs Battlefield 1 is coming without some nations who fought in world war, but they are adding them in a DLC :D.
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Hi dLo,
fwiw, I think games are much more affordable w/ far greater variation now than they used to be, especially when taking inflation into account.
Steam is far more convenient imho than owning physical copies of the games. I stopped playing Sim City 4 from disk maybe 10+yrs ago because it was such a pain to dig out the disk, and then my CD/DVD stopped working, so even worse. I'm probably in minority on this, but Steam/Gog and others make it much easier. Yeah, DRM is bad, but I understand why companies went to it, and I understand why the old styleDRM was a passing phase. Steam is pretty transparent in that regard in most cases. All imho.
As to cost: Games are far more detailed and costly to make now. I don't think the economics from earlier generations can be compared. Again, all imho. Many studios struggle to turn profits, and many have failed.
On licensing a game. Yeah, that bothered me at first because I did use to sell physical copies after I was done playing. But now I don't really mind because I typically get so many games so much cheaper now than I ever could in the past, and downloads are so much cheaper. I've honestly gone to much more of a library system similar to netflix. I have so many more games than I'll ever play, but just try to buy them when they're in bundles or on sale. I might only play 10% of them to any degree, but I have so many choices. Yeah, it seems kindof dumb to do it this way, but it's resulted in sending hundreds of publishers small amounts of money vs. sending a handful of publishers a big chunk. Not sure if that's good or bad, but for whatever reason I like picking up games on even a small chance that I might play them in the future.
I'm not trying to be contrary, and a matter of principle I can understand why some might be concerned with some of the issues above, but in practice imho it's never been better to be a gamer. It's incredible what gaming has become and is becoming.
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I know you were just using it as an example, but the ridiculously high pricing in AUS isn't just an issue with video games, it's an issue with everything. I remember when I lived there it was actually cheaper to buy something online and get it shipped from the US to AUS, which is ridiculous. Australia is so overpriced (it's the worst with tech products especially) and a lot of it does have to do with the change in the dollar, but from what I remember it's always been expensive, and that's some bullshit
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DRM: Console games have DRM. But Steam doesn't make Uplay, EA et al refrain from using their own DRM, or requiring you to use an account separate from Steam. I don't play console, but doesn't GTA V on console want you to log into RGSC?
COST: I'd rally more behind this complaint if it was like when I was a wee lad and record companies literally convenience taxed the consumer for the advantageous new features of CDs vs. audio cassettes. Further, back in the day console games were physical cartridges. These were--compared to pressing an optical disc--expensive to produce. As the industry transitioned to optical discs from cartridges, they didn't pass on the savings to consumers. The "savings" from not having to create boxed copies aren't passed on to the consumer because it doesn't need to be passed on. The cost of a new AAA game is $60. That's the way the PC market works. Except when the medium upon which it is delivered is so prohibitively expensive (such as some games back in the day that needed a lot of storage/memory) that required a break with the $60 for AAA game model, over the years vendors have taken less net revenue per unit after accounting for manufacturing, or more recently--more--depending upon the cost of manufacturing.
Also, uh, I remember when AAA games cost $50. The new normal became $60 for no reason, apparently. Personally I'd be more upset with that than with them not passing the cartridge->optical disc, or optical disc->digital download savings on to us.
EULA: I don't think this is a black-and-white issue. Obviously rights-holders sometimes have and will in the future overreach in restricting end-users, but what of the aspect of the EULA that exists to try to ensure that the community for that game are having the intended experience, such as one free from cheating, exploits, etc.? I would think you'd support that. I do.
Obviously when a rights-holder uses the EULA as a club to excessively and unnecessarily restrict gamers, that's shitty, but arguably that is not the primary (certainly not the sole) purpose of it.
FIRST-SALE DOCTRINE: Digital distribution and licenses instead of true ownership are problematic but you failed to acknowledge an important part of why no one is interested in letting you or me or anyone to resell their digital "copy": the copy is in perfect condition. The only risk is whether the user will try to scam or renege in a resale agreement, but other than that, why would any cost-conscious person buy any older games directly from the publisher or the digital distributor when a cash-hungry owner of the game is eyeing a soon-to-be-released AAA game and needs to swell their wallet?
I'm not saying I agree with the way this whole you-don't-really-own-the-game-you-just-have-a-license thing works. I'm just saying that it's hard to imagine how the major players in the industry would ever have embraced digital distribution if selling a few million copies of a game via pre-order and first week orders means that four weeks after launch you have perhaps millions of individuals who can and will undercut your current MSRP. We already see the various codes for online play and other goodies that major publishers for consoles use to make a used version of their game unattractive.
CONCLUSION: People applaud Steam because Steam has moved PC gaming forward by creating a centralized, popular location for the release of games from major vendors as well as indies. Digital distribution--as ushered in by Steam more than anything--has resulted in rock-bottom prices for sales and discounts. When I was younger, it was rare for someone to actually own hundreds of games. Most people owned a handful of games, maybe a couple dozen. And yes, they outright owned them--no license. Now I "own" thousands of games, and why do I not worry about the fact that I don't really "own" them? Because Steam is a cash cow, and it isn't going anywhere any time soon. Still, would I recommend that a person buy from GOG instead of Steam if a game is in both stores and comparably priced? Of course.
But I disagree with your post in general. You didn't actually say things were better back in the day but it seemed to be your tone. Personally, I prefer the way things are now, and I'm not expecting some utopia where the large corporations are my friends and will extend to me rights and benefits that erode or undermine their own. I don't think you are expecting that either, but you certainly seem to think that anyone who accepts DRM, EULAs, corporations whom reap the benefits of decreases in the cost of distribution instead of passing some of that on to the consumer, and the licensee vs. owner disadvantages of PC gaming in 2016 as some sort of ignorant sheeple. Well, I'm not, and I personally think that PC gaming in 2016 comes with distinct advantages over gaming of years past. Would it be nice if it had even more advantages and less disadvantages? Absolutely. But the reality is I am as much or more of a gamer in 2016 as I was when I was a little kid/tween, whereas for quite some after being a kid I was only a gamer off and on. There are a variety of factors that play into why I'm more into of a gamer, but invariably the state of PC gaming is a net benefit to that.
P.S. I appreciate your post and understand why you feel the way you do and am glad that you spurred discussion here.
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I really appreciate that you took the time to make a very large response - If you want to see how I feel about each individual topic then you have to find the hidden GA's where I make my real comment about the topic!
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Hah. Yeah, I didn't click the links that I saw were for GAs.
I agree with what you lot of you said to a certain degree. Honestly the only person I've argued with about this recently kind of had the attitude that we'd all be golden if Steam had adopted the GOG model from the start. My contention was/is that if Steam had done that, it would never have become what Steam is today and some other digital distributor who was willing to let the huge corporations who produce most of the top revenue-generating games "protect" their IPs in the traditional fashions would have become what Steam is.
It would be really nice though if Valve became more of our advocate, but if they abolished third-party DRM then Bethesda, Ubisoft, EA, et al would just pull their stuff from the store.
And I can see people being upset about the release cost of an AAA game not reflecting the cheaper distribution methods, but like I said, I reserve that hatred for the record companies, the greedy bastards.
I like you, though. You're good people.
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Based on the cost for development of their own DRM platforms I bet that had steam changed their distribution fee to something more reasonable then there would not be a UPlay or Origin today. Retail stores take a 15% cut of the sale price for all software sold in their stores. Steam takes (from what I have read) 30%.
I actually think GOG is a terrible business model. You can get both the DRM free copy of the game as well as the steam cd-key copy of the game when you purchase - so essentially you are buying two copies of the game and not just one. I know people who make GA's with the steam copy and play the GOG DRM free copy. And people think sites like G2A and Kinguin are hurting the game community. I find it interesting that everyone is so ready to point the finger at anyone other than themselves.
You sow into the wind and you reap the hurricane!
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Steam takes 30% because that's pretty much the standard for digital distribution. I think Apple popularized that. Certainly Apple demonstrated that it could be standard within a successful model.
And I think Uplay and Origin exist not because of Steam's chunk of the revenue, but because Ubisoft and EA want to be Steam.
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When it comes to pricing, the AUS dollar is worth 0.75 to one US dollar so that's why the price is more expensive there. The same happens with makeup in NZ and AUS. It's ridiculously expensive there, but that has to do with importing and the currency exchange. It really sucks though.
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EULA
I've always found it funny that you only get to see the licence agreement after you have paid. Sure you may get a refund, but it's a hassle, and all that for a video game?
And what is that, a cryptic wall of text worse than a life insurance's paperwork... just to play a computer game?
How many times have you sold your soul just to install a game, without even noticing?
And why give a video game in a limited use licence with such restrictive terms? As if I could reverse-engineer Barbie Dreamhouse and use the code to build a nuclear weapon.
And by the way the EULA also applies to physical copies, which you are supposed to return or destroy if the licence is revoked or by any means terminated, e.g.:
Upon any termination of this EULA, you must destroy or return the physical copy of Software to Licensor, as well as permanently destroy all copies of the Software, accompanying documentation, associated materials, and all of its component parts in your possession or control, including from any client server, computer, gaming unit, and mobile device on which it has been installed.
Source. Is it enough if I swallow the installation disk and the manual, or do I have to eat the box too?
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The manual? As in the digital PDF manual that was part of the collectors edition that you paid an extra 19.99 for? lol
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Hah!
The funny thing about "collector" editions is that according to the licence you usually don't actually own any of it.
Boxes, manuals, disks, trinkets, posters, that 20" Todd McFarlane's Bad Rats action figure... it's all covered in that "accompanying documentation, associated materials, and all of its component parts" line.
You'd make quite a poor collector if nothing in your collection was actually yours.
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The day when old game collector's edition contents are worth money - and then your license is revoked. PRICELESS!
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I agree with the notion that you only see the license agreement after you pay for it, but that stems from the days when software was sold in boxes and the EULA would be inside the box, which was practical because otherwise the box would just be a wall of text. Once the leap to digital was made, it kinda stuck. Hell, most games don't even show you the EULA and you have to go look for it if you want to read it. But again, at this stage, software has operated through EULAs for so long that it's just a given that you subject yourself to the terms of the EULA when you use the software. If someone was willing to litigate it, they could make a strong argument that they never agreed to the EULA to begin with... it'd be interesting to see
As for the restrictiveness of the license, blame the lawyers. And history. And the nature of digital goods.
Over time, and as cases have actually been litigated, the EULAs have gotten more and more detailed, partly because people were, in fact, doing the kind of thing that is now prohibited under the EULA. same is true for insurance paperwork, by the way, some of which I got a front-row seat for the cause & effect
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That makes sense, thanks for the explaination.
And yeah, I imagine that EULAs and use licences in general got stricter and stricter as people started sueing game developers because "a video game made their kid smash the neighbour's window".
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Hmm, I can't have the group one, rest are open only 5 are exclusive to this thread :-)
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DRM
Platforms use DRMs because they need to verify your account in order for them to know what games you own and do not own.Steam has minimal DRM and also gives you free features like family sharing,trading,profile customization,friends,community market,community hubs,streaming and so on.
You can plug your game into the PS4 and play,but you can press play on steam and that's it.
Uplay/Rockstar Club are a bit annoying but only a bit and they only consume a few seconds of your time.No need to rage over it.You can also just buy it on their own platform if you don't want to have 2 clients open.
COST
Well,why not buy only physical if you do not like digital?
EULA
????
FIRST-SALE DOCTRINE
Steam won't go down in flames and if it does,it will be bought by another company and continue the service.The libraries are safe don't worry.
CONCLUSION
First of all,the devs actually give away keys on a regular basis.G2A and Kinguin have gone as far as sponsoring eSports teams/youtubers/streamers.No one will revoke anything.
Steam has a in-built trading system.You can literally buy a game and give it to someone else free of charge.They can't possibly police what gifts/keys are given away on a site or given away for free.
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"But then the AUS Dollar became even in price with the USD and is worth more than the USD today"
I think you need to get your facts checked out.
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When I first started playing games on a commodore 64 things were much different. Later moving into a PC and playing games like Dune II, Doom, Warcraft, and anything that I could afford to play... things were still much different than they are today. This is my rant at how disgusted I am with the current state of PC Gaming directed mainly at Publishers and Developers. I have tried to keep each point limited (I could go on for days) so hopefully people will actually read it.
DRM
This is as obvious a place to start as any. Always online DRM. Steam, UPlay, Origin, etc. Authentication servers. Is this REALLY necessary? We have games on Steam that require you to 1) be logged into steam to open then 2) open a second DRM such as UPlay to validate you AGAIN? Why is this acceptable to consumers? It is not acceptable to me. I can put a game disc into my PS4 and play - nothing else required - just like the good old days of PC Gaming. PC Master Race? DRM Slave Race might be more fitting.
COST
A long time ago when people used to buy games from physical stores, in a physical box, the game prices were around 59.99 / 49.99. And that seemed fair. Physical items have a cost to them - from CD's / CD Cases / Boxes / Manuals/ Foldup Maps / Logistical costs. Yet today we are a victim of the industry status quo. Why is it that for AAA games (that still sell box copies), I pay the same price for a digital download in comparison to a boxed copy? Why is the cost savings of digital distribution not passed on to the consumer?
REGION LOCKS
I will just use AUS/NZ as an example. A long time ago when games were released at 59.99 / 49.99 the AUS Dollar was worth less than the USD (FOREX Exchange) so game publishers sold the games in AUS at around 110 AUS Dollars (or 59.99 USD). That seemed fair. But then the AUS Dollar became even in price with the USD and is worth more than the USD today yet the games still sell at around 110 AUS Dollars. Victim of the industry standard quo. Why should the people in AUS pay twice as much (or in reality 2.3 times as much when you convert the currency back into USD) as the American gamer for the exact same product. This is completely unacceptable - yet ignored by anyone outside of AUS/NZ. I personally have no dog in the fight as I am from the USA - but I can recognize how much BS this practice is.
EULA
So I paid money for something and now you are going to tell me how I can or cannot use the product that I just purchased? Give me a break. If I go to Wal-Mart and purchase a blender, the blender manufacturer cannot say - if you use this blender to blend carrots then we will reposses the blender because it was not intended to blend carrots. Yet lawfully the game developer has the right to tell you in what manner their product can be used - unbelievable, unethical, basically criminal.
FIRST-SALE DOCTRINE
I hear a lot these days about 'authorized sellers'. Well it might be time that people educate themselves as to what the law has to say. The law enables reselling of trademarked products after the trademark holder put the products on the market - that is to say that if I own something, I have every right to sell it to another person (anywhere in the world) so long as the product itself is legally for sale in the market. (don't respond yet read the next paragraph.)
The problem is that you don't own a game when you purchase a game. You are given a license to the game itself. So you have no ownership over anything. Your 1000+ game steam library can vanish tomorrow... for no reason other than your licenses have been revoked and you have no legal recourse against such an action. The reality is that softward copyright owners not only own the work embodied in every copy of the program they sell, they own every copy too. Consumers are left with both empty pockets and empty hands. If Steam goes out of business, you are not robbed of all the games you purchased, your licenses are simply revoked.
(If you want to read about the above google: Vernor v. Autodesk.)
CONCLUSION
As a gamer you are being taken to the cleaners - both in your right of use and in your right of fair and free market prices. Yet somehow despite that, people actually applaud Steam and Battle.net and whoever else. You not only willingly give away both your rights and money, but you do so without any reluctance... you do so with thunderous applause. If you cannot recognize this then what else can be done?
Technically most of the titles that are listed here as GA's break the games EULA and your GA title could be revoked by the developer without cause - but lets ignore all of it anyways - because it hasn't happened to me yet and we can all laugh at the guy it will happen to and go on our merry way thinking 'it wont happen to me because I am special'.
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