... while the other thread full of terrorist propaganda remains open and active.

Please reopen the October 7th massacre awareness thread.

We live in times of fakes and propaganda. We have to see the original images and videos, however horrible they may be, not some second-hand accounts that distort the truth. We can't afford to continue to live sheltered lives anymore. The third world war may have already started. First, the attack on Ukraine and now this. If we don't unite against this modern-day evil, we might all get massacred by the barbarians. And the first step is to establish the facts and to weed out the lies. Already there are some trolls who claim that the massacre didn't happen (that Hamas attacked only the Israeli military, not civilians) or that the attack wasn't as bad as it is described by Israeli sources. We are faced with a new Holocaust denial. And what do the SG mods do? They help the deniers by suppressing the facts.

I suggest the following solution to the purported problem: put EXTREME GORE WARNING not just in the header but on every link. Like this:
EXTREME GORE WARNING: Thread that will change your mind about the Arab-Israeli conflict.

If the rules allow the terrorist propaganda thread and forbid the thread about the reality of what actually happened, then maybe such rules have to be changed. Don't you think?


Update:

Now that the new thread is up my thread became unnecessary. I'll wait a little longer to let everyone who disagrees with me speak out, and then I'll close it. Apparently, my liberal position, based on the charitable assumption that people can decide for themselves what to click on or not (given descriptions and warnings), did not find much support. In addition, it turned out that it is allowed to register on Steamgifts starting from the age of 16. This changes everything in terms of legislation.

1 year ago*

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Should the October 7th massacre awareness thread be reopened?

View Results
Yes, immediately and unconditionally
Yes, with ubiquitous gore warnings
No, I'd prefer to suppress the truth about the massacre
No, I'm only interested in the suffering of the palestinian side

Option 5, No this is not the intent of the website and you broke the sites TOS which others already mentioned beforehand....

1 year ago
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+1

1 year ago
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Very loaded poll options mean I have to abstain. I agree the discussion was closed for legitimate reason, not to suppress the truth. I'm sure someone can create a thread with a more balanced view linking to less shocking media. Fortunately the descriptions on the links in the other thread were enough for me to know I didn't want to follow them.

1 year ago
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The poll is just sarcasm. The reason for closure is purely technical and is based on an outdated rule that should be changed. Warnings are of course necessary and would work perfectly along with descriptions, exactly like the descriptions worked for you.

Also see my other comment.

"A more balanced view" of a horrible massacre sounds doubtful.

1 year ago
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"The poll is just sarcasm." : Then don't even make a poll.

"The reason for closure is purely technical and is based on an outdated rule that should be changed." : You're entitled to your opinion, but some of us seem to agree that the purpose of this site wasn't to share gore. If the other thread was able to do it, so can whichever you support, if it can't and it breaks the rule, then it's rightfully closed.

I don't get why you need to spread this here, and can't discuss the topic where the source material came from. Isn't that the whole point of T or LL? A dedicated place to share that kind of information? Why would it have to come to steamgifts?

I came here to join giveaways, give games away and see deals. I don't mind being made aware of something going on in the world, but not like this here. There's plenty of news and media sites, plenty of proper ways to find the information you are looking for. If the rule says don't do it, why you gotta break it on purpose? Can't control yourself?

1 year ago
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I'm sure it's possible to create a thread about the massacre, or praising/condemning Hamas/IDF, or whatever your propaganda of choice is without resorting to posting tons of links of NSFL material. The pro-Palestine thread doesn't have that, and most NSFW links there (from what I saw anyway) did not show corpses, blood, people getting killed, etc. You do not need shock to convey a good point.

There exist news websites and articles that discuss said material without needing to show it. I'm sure that the mods would be completely okay if links to such sites were used, similarly to the pro-Palestine thread (although that one is mostly Youtube shorts from pro-Arab sources rather than news articles, but it mostly adheres to rules).

The site has a clear rule against NSFW material. I wouldn't expect the mods to be okay with a thread discussing everyone's favourite porn fetishes with example videos despite a short warning, because it would be similarly against the site rules.

Not to mention your poll is laughably biased. Like sure the pro-Palestine one isn't great but this victim shit-slinging is not a good look.

1 year ago
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If there's a way to create a thread about the massacre that will be convincing without disturbing material, I'm not familiar with it. I wouldn't believe that numerous human beings (not just rare homicidal maniacs) are capable of such cruelty without visual proof. And those websites you mention could be just brushed off as propaganda.

The rule should be changed. Disturbing links can be clearly marked as disturbing. Looking at your porn example, I'm sure that everyone except very special people would be ok with links to porn videos if each of them is marked with "EXTREME PORN WARNING" or "EXTREME FETISH WARNING" or "EXTREME ANAL PENETRATION WARNING" or whatever.

The poll is just sarcasm. I've already seen that the majority of people on this website are anti-Israel. A serious poll would just reflect that and nothing more.

1 year ago
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the rules should not be changed.

there are other sites for this stuff for a reason.

1 year ago
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The are other sites, but it's impossible to wade through all the garbage to find them. I can't find a single post that I can send to anyone who doubts what actually happened there. The closed thread is actually the link I'm going to use for that purpose.

1 year ago
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I'm sure that everyone except very special people would be ok with links to porn videos

Where on earth did you pluck that notion from?!
NO, this site doesn't need porn, and it doesn't need photos and videos of the dead and dying - and even if you think it does, it's very clearly against the rules. If that's what you want, go elsewhere.

1 year ago
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As much as I agree with the sentiment behind the pictures and videos needing to be out there and easily available, since there is a site rule against gore, then that rule needs to be upheld.

Option 5, reopen the thread or create a new one with useful info and links in place of the inappropriate content. It doesn't have to be good, or nuanced info, clearly, just not gore.

1 year ago
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All 4 voting options are biased and manipulative, there won't be any useful or representative info out of it.

Also, what others said about site rules, but you already know that.

1 year ago
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The poll is just sarcasm. I don't believe in polls. They reflect the point of view of the majority instead of the correct point of view.

E.g., see this poll: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/chs9v/palestinethread

1 year ago
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Not choosing sides, but it sounds like you are saying that if people don't agree with you it is not the correct point of view.

1 year ago
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No, I'm saying that polls can go either way and the correctness of a point of view is not correllated with the percentage of people holding said point of view.

In the 19th century the majority of people including many experts thought that heavier than air flight was impossible.

1 year ago
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No, thanks, I'M having that one hidden for a reason.

1 year ago
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And what is the "correct point of view"? Yours?

1 year ago
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You know, on the one hand it doesn't matter. No matter whose opinion is correct, a poll will not help.

But on the other hand, this is a serious philosophical question. My opinion that the SG rules need to be changed has changed based on this discussion. Discussion often helps to get closer to the correct opinion. But it must take place between intelligent people who are capable of thinking and changing their opinion based on facts and arguments. Otherwise, it will turn out like with the Trump debates, when he does not say a single sensible word, but still wins the debate in the eyes of the masses.

The way things happen in life, it's very sad. Half the population, by definition, has an IQ below average. Nevertheless, all those people are allowed to participate in making decisions that are fateful for the whole world. Roughly speaking, they are allowed to participate in a poll and then the results of this poll are taken seriously. On the other hand, dictatorship is much worse. There, one person or group decides everything for everyone, and usually in their own favor, while the rest suffer. Exceptions like Singapore simply prove the rule - they are vanishingly rare.

My solution for politics would be this. Every person must earn the right to vote. If she did well in school and did not commit criminal offenses, she has the right to choose the rulers. If she or he was an asshole, then no. This is obviously not suitable for SteamGifts. Here polls on serious issues are simply useless, period.

P.S. If a poll has the Potato option, it's probably okay.

1 year ago
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You can go on 4chan reddit twitter plenty of places to discuss this topic. I agree with you though that they were fine with the ukraine shit but not this which is weird. Personally i think that neither of these things should have ever been on the site except for when people are doing a relief bundle etc
TLDR Have some keys regardless of what propaganda you preach cause this is a key site

1 year ago
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Their original post wasn't closed because it was political, it was closed because they posted links to what was basically gore in direct violation of the site's rules.

1 year ago
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Saw people posting the same shit when Ukraine war started. Regardless point stands preach whatever propaganda but you better have some keys cause thats what this site is for at its core. People do all kinds of stupid discussions but were here for games

1 year ago
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In the replies, definitely, but I don't think any were ever posted in the original. If they were, they were removed quickly, which still makes it compliant with the site's rules.

1 year ago
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I understand that emotions are running hot but kindly understand that this really isn't the place for posting links with photos of graphic death and violence. Talking about the deaths is fine but I feel links to photos of tragic and graphic deaths (esp without the deceased's family's consent) does everyone a disservice. Even if it was for a good cause, that was a step too far.

1 year ago
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The incompetence and hypocrisy of this site's moderators is for the history books. How can you lock a thread and still leave the image links? You go on a witch hunt for unactivated key but dead babies are just another day in the office. I commend the OP of the original thread for courage; they must be one of the "untouchables". If this was any other account, they'd be banned within a minute.

1 year ago
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While I don't doubt the existence of the raids and massacres themselves (as you can find articles about them all over the news), all this thread did was linking tons of photos from random telegram links claiming they were from the victims, while there was nothing to prove they weren't just taken from somewhere else (at least from the links themselves, I didn't click any of them). They could have been from other massacres, AI generated or anything really. If the thread had linked a few articles from trustworthy sources it would have served its purpose better than corpse photos taken from dubious sources, but all I saw was a Wikipedia link in Hebrew and an article from the Daily Mail (which is well known for publishing stuff for shock value without verifying it).

Besides if we allow that sort of pics on the site I can't wait to see it turn into a porn forum. That way it would mirror whatever Steam's becoming perfectly -_-

1 year ago
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I usually stay away from commenting in all of these threads; I am personally against all of these sorts of threads in general. But I also respect that the mods have kept them up to preserve the freedom to post what users want on the site.

I did want to comment that if you read the closing reason for the thread in question, it has nothing to do with politics. That thread blatantly breaks rule 2 under the 'User Content' section in the site rules:

Inappropriate content. If you are posting content that may be considered NSFW (not safe for work), prefix any links or images with a NSFW tag to warn others. Do not post pornography, or explicit content, such as real life images depicting severe injury, gore, or death.

Now whether you agree with the site rules or not is a different question. But that thread blatantly breaks the rule, and just because it talks about terrorism or politics, doesn't mean it should get immunity to the rules. Now, I also believe the same thing for all the other threads; if they do in-fact have gore or violent material attached, they should be locked too. Even if the thread isn't about politics or terrorism, and is in fact about a game or giveaway (the point of the site), but also contains gore; that should be banned. However, I don't believe the main posts in any of those other threads are full of gore. And I'd assume mods take per-comment actions if something like that is posted in the comments.

1 year ago
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A) Second thread was done as a counterpoint to the first thread, thus deliberately was done in the same way and tone. It would not have been posted without the first thread. So it was done to rile up the forums and to provoke, not in good spirits.
Deletion for shitposting is okay because of this.

B) Allowed Age to register here at SG is 13 years. As such, there are laws the site owner has to abide by what kind of content is allowed on this site and what not. As the site owner is canadian and I guess the site is also hosted on canadian servers, canadian laws apply. Now, I am no expert in canadian law, but I am pretty sure that those images and videos are not allowed on a site that can be frequented by minors.
So deletion is also justified.
(I have no idea about canadian laws regarding the massive amount of hentai games on this site. If, for example, german jurisdiction would know that SG makes hentai porn games available to minors, SG would be IP-banned in germany and CG would maybe even be persecuted and threatened with jail time.)

C) The right thing to do is: Both threads need to closed.

Oh, and addendum:
There is a proverb that goes: Every story has three sides: Yours, mine, and the truth.
This is especially true in a war.

1 year ago*
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Allowed Age to register here at SG is 13 years.

16 years, as it turns out. But you're right, this changes things.

1 year ago
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Thank you for the correction. It was Steam where the minimum age is 13, I mixed that up.

1 year ago
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While I do understand your emotions, that thread was too much indeed: the situation is deeply traumatic to any sane person, the site would definitely do better without more shock content, you don't need to hit interlocutors' heads with a hammer to persuade them, many of us are hurting enough already. We need to somehow mentally survive during horror, not to get destroyed psychologically. On the other hand, I get how the ugliness of the so-called Palestine awareness thread with all its indirect support of terrorism could provoke the OP of that thread and how this indifference to suffering might lead to the wish to show what Hamas is actually doing. Considering all this (and the fact that Israel is actually also killing innocent civilians, however much it is difficult to accept this information), frankly, I'd close both threads just because i don't see a better option, but it would be awesome if any of you or someone else could find energy to create a new one, without blatant shock content, because right now thanks to the mods' weird behaviour we only have the Hamas one (wouldn't call it a Palestine one, the OP obviously doesn't care about civilians).

1 year ago*
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" wouldn't call it a Palestine one, the OP obviously doesn't care about civilians" Agreed. OP literally said he agreed with Hamas preventing civilians leaving their homes when Israel asked them to avoid casualties.

1 year ago
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They should leave homeland because of a bully. Great idea.

1 year ago
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I mean the "bully" in question basically said they're gonna bomb the area after what hamas did, as hamas hides there. If the civilians don't want to get away, how else are they supposed to get to hamas and get any revenge? If the stubbornness of the civilians is that no they can't overpower themselves the hamas, no they can't evacuate, no they don't want to evacuate because it's their land. I mean, what's israel supposed to do now? Just forget about what happened? Or what, ask palestine to bring them the people? palestine can't control hamas anyways and this shows, it's not like it's gonna get better. We're not talking 5 people we're talking thousands. Like what's your suggestion? I don't like whats going either, but palestine is in no position to help themselves against hamas, and now hamas went on to attack someone else. All they're doing is serving as a base for them. At least in this unfortunate case, israel can maybe help palestine get rid of hamas. So yes, I think the civilians should flee. If they stay I can't imagine what they are thinking. Not only did hamas trash them for years, now that israel is coming through to get rid of hamas, they want to stay and protect hamas.

None of us know what the best solution is in this scenario, but I honestly don't believe the solutions are for israel to completely back down because it's not the right thing to do after what happened, nor for them to trust palestine to find and hand the hamas over to them given that palestine has been owned by hamas and they have no control of hamas. From what's going on I'm getting the feeling that hamas is using palestinians by spreading the word of them staying there, and palestinians stay because they feel patriotic. So they're using them as shields on their own stubbornness cause israel is still gonna bomb that area, and hamas is still bombing towards israel. It's not like that's stopping now.

1 year ago
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Maybe you're right. I haven't slept well since October 7th. I am a complete outsider in this conflict, I was not even previously familiar with the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflicts, but my state now is similar to the state at the beginning of March 2022, although in that conflict I was not an outsider, it was quite personal. Maybe the reason is that I watched shocking content.

I think I would be happy if the terrorist thread was simply closed. But that's not how mods work here.

Anyway, Mdk25 created a new thread, and my thread became unnecessary. I'll wait a little longer to let everyone who disagrees with me speak out, and then I'll close it. Apparently, my liberal position, based on the charitable assumption that people can decide for themselves what to click on or not (given descriptions and warnings), does not find much support. This is fine. I'm used to my positions not finding support. In addition, it turned out that it is allowed to register on Steamgifts starting from the age of 16. This changes things in terms of legislation.

Thank you for your reasonable and balanced comment.

1 year ago
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Closed 1 year ago by Saucisse.