Does a suspension absolves users from unactivated wins?
I doubt there's a fix for this. While the solutions, which have been offered by a lot of SG users look fair enough, not everyone would care enough to fix their mistakes (or have the opportunity to do so for some other reason), especially if they're unactive on forums and less likely to be noticed.
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I agree, I have to re-roll a lot ,there could be an option to prohibit entering giveaways while you have some non-activated games!
This is also useful because sometimes people just forget they've won something and inability to enter any GAs would be a reminder.
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+1 for the topic, I created a lot of such tickets recently, pretty time consuming for both sides.
Also +1 for option 1) and in case of multiple wins the user would have to buy a copy and return it to the GA creator or support - sounds fair to me.
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SGTools might not be official but as you can use it for grounds for a reroll it has effectively been endorsed.
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is this really necessary? -.-
users have 2 chances to get suspended for unactivated wins, a 3rd time means a perma-suspension.
if everyone followed what khalaq said here, we wouldn't have people complaining they found a user with 5+ unactivated/multiple wins at once.
this site runs based on teamwork, not just support and automatic rules making it better, users also have to help...
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And I countered with 'have CG add a suspension-tracking variable to each giveaway-win database entry, which SGTools could then pull data off of and easily contrast that against the list it generates'.
ie, a database entry might currently look like:
WinID-GiveawayName-GiveawayTimeWon-GiveawaySent-GiveawayReceived-whateverI'mforgetting;
Add in a binary SuspensionServed counter to it.
Meaning, SGTools itself could just check if the suspension has been served or not, listing the game if it hadn't, and not listing it if it had. The variable'd have no other use, so the current punishment system'd remain the same, but it'd toggle from 0 to 1 on a related suspension [suspensions already seem to tie directly to specific wins in the current system], allowing SGTools to create an exclusion rule based off it.
Thus, the following would occur on SGTools:
(Would not generate NonActivations that had been Activated, same as now)
(Would generate NonActivations that been served, and add a note to them that they had)
(Would generate NonActivations that had not been served, and add a note that they hadn't and ought be reported to SG Staff (After confirming the issue isn't an error))
It's theoretically unless the site database structure is a mess extremely easy from a coding perspective, and it resolves nearly all the needless effort/etc of the current system.
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SGTools doesn't need this. It already supports not letting users with unactivated wins in, and this completely removes the burden. That's one of the main reason I use it. I would be glad to be able to do more public giveaways, and for this you need a solution here, not on SGTools.
BTW, a secondary benefit of SGTools "Activated all won games" filter is that it encouraged many users to clean up their profiles and get rid of unactivated wins, otherwise they were losing out on too many good giveaways.
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Er, I was responding to your initial point about high flow of support tickets over the matter, which this would resolve. I quoted it here for reference.
It's not meant to resolve public giveaways, just make us have to put in less effort, and staff put in less effort.
The benefit of my approach is, it doesn't require any change of site policy.
Now, from the perspective of changed policy, my opinion is this:
Remove the one-month-since-violation safety net for still-active violations and allow rerolling on the matter no matter the timeframe.
Noone should have to have a bitter taste in their mouth over what they've given away, or feel required to give a game away, to someone who broke rules and is unwilling to put in the effort to resolve the matter.
But, that's a subjective perspective, certainly, so I'll continue to mostly avoid public giveaways for now, instead.
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That's not the time I'm worried about. It's the burden in going through steps 1-4. What do you think about the example I gave? Quote:
if they didn’t activate their first win and were then suspended for it, their next 100 wins will require 100 new reroll tickets, all rejected by Support.
Do you consider these 100 rerolls to be a justified necessity that's better than requiring the winner to activate their wins once?
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support don't have issues with reroll tickets piling up (like user reports), so i don't see the problem here. the reroll system works fine.
and preventing people from entering giveaways because they have an unactivated win will get support more tickets "why me cant enter giveaways it is unfair pls help" and those users will also spam the forums with complaints. -.-
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Support does have an issue with it. That's why they give rerolls much higher priority than user reports, and why these tickets get handled within "2 mins to 3 hours", while user reports can rut for months.
Preventing people from entering giveaways works beautifully with SGTools. There's no reason it won't work just as well if it was a built in feature.
So your bottom line is that yes, you consider these 100 rerolls to be a justified necessity that's better than requiring the winner to activate their wins once. Ok, good to know.
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support cares about all the tickets or else they wouldn't be support at all.
reroll tickets get maximum priority just for the fact that giveaways would end up stuck for months if they didn't do that. -.-
and yes, using sgtools works perfectly fine. the difference is people with unactivated wins can still enter other GAs so they aren't completely isolated from everything that goes on the site.
and yes, i consider those rerolls a necessary evil.
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Nope. You should take care of it and fix your profile. My opinion is the same for multiple wins (though, like you said, it is more difficult to fix these, so I'm lenient if they happened on, say, the same day, but if they're months apart it means there was a non-activation followed by a second win) and I don't think it's fair to give games to people who break rules and don't try to fix it.
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Skipping the question of whether the suspension system is appropriate for non-activated wins and looking more at the need to report / have staff respond aspect -
If a user is being suspended for non-activation of giveways, an option would be to have the giveaway(s) for which the suspension was handed out marked in some way as "completed" so that the user isn't reported again for the same giveaway. I don't know what the support staff tools for these things look like, but it would seem like at the time the suspension is handed out, staff could simply put a check next to the giveaway(s) warranting the suspension if that was the reason for the action, so that the next time, it would be readily apparent whether the infractions are old or require further report.. Presumably SGTools could then check for this as well and report "time served" non-activations in a different way.
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^ This.
Fix the site back-end, and solve both the problem of Support needing to process and as outcome reject re-roll requests, and the problem of users getting punished even after serving their suspensions.
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There's a simpler solution. If a user has had their suspension it should be stated in the list of their wins. Then a GA creator etc. can see it and doesn't need to request a reroll.
Edit: Zupe00 above just wrote practically the same thing.
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How about this.
If someone gets suspension for not activating giveaway, the winner for that giveaway is changed to CG.
GA creator gets his CV, suspended user can no longer be reported for that activated win.
CG can't be suspended because hes admin.
We then have a proof this site is a scam because admin takes wins for himself :P
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Totally agree with OP here. Started going through this burden once I began enforcing rule checking after losing trust in winners.
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There's nothing good that can be said over those that win a gift but don't activate it and even worse those that re-gift or re-trade the won gift.
SG rules should popup for a mandatory read for everyone when logging into Steamgifts and when registering on Steamgifts.
Also I find that the three strikes rule is too lenient and should be changed to perma-ban on the second infraction so that every (new) SG user knows that not activating won gifts is one of the worst offences that can be made on SG.
It would be very simple:
1) First infraction: warning and a seven days suspension
2) Second infraction: perma-ban
In all honesty I think that only the regifters themselves, some of their buddies and maybe those that are unaware of how low and how bad not activating a won gift is would vote against this...
SGT giveaways with the three most used reqs (all activated, no multiple wins and no VAC bans) are imho the best way to go to counter the worst that SG has to offer.
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That's why I thought another idea of someone who posted in the forums recently was good: Display on profile how many days ago a user served a suspension (if it's within the last 2 months). And yes, I just recommend everyone to activate their god damn keys. I almost made that mistake in the beginning of me being here too, but if that would happen I would have just bought the game and activate it. It's worse than people think, I've blacklisted tons of people for that or multiple wins (especially when they already served a suspension and I have to send them the game + they still didn't think it was necessary getting the non-activated game somewhere to add to their account... Then I'm EXTRA-blacklisting them. MEH :/)
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I still think all suspensions and their reasons should be mentioned in everyones profile. The whole "public shaming" and whatnot is crap. We were suspended for the reasons we were suspended for. Is that something to hide? If everybody realized that there is nothing to hide and no reason to be ashamed, there can be no "public shaming" because nobody gives a crap.
Yirg, I like your idea "Add an option like the one in SGTools ("[x] Activated all won games") and make it the default for all giveaways"
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I would be fine with the current "time served" policy if the penalties were harsher, but how punishing is a suspension of just a few days really? I mean if you aren't a daily site addict (like most of us here in the forum) you might serve a suspension without even noticing. Hardly seems like "time served" to me.
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Nope.
There is no month I'd not see member of one of groups i'm part of looking to trade for a key that for some reason turned out to be invalid/duplicated. Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they buy new copy from the store. They could take not-received or delete the GA under "key no longer available" reason, but instead choose to fix the mistake on theirs end. Why regifters can't do the same is beyond me (except rare cases where it's next to impossible to by that particular game) and I'd hearthily welcome checkbox "no unactivated wins" on GA creation page. Suspension is only discipline tool, it doesn't take off responsibility to fix mistakes
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Hey Yirg, I thought of another analogy with which we might make our case: the military concept of "stolen valor":
"The law amends the federal criminal code to make it a crime for a person to fraudulently claim having received a valor award specified in the Act, with the intention of obtaining money, property, or other tangible benefit by convincing another that he or she received the award."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act_of_2013
This is a criminal act in the U.S. and many other countries, and I think it may be comprehensible to more people. My thread is still going (https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/0uN99/suggestion-re-gifters-should-be-required-to-clear-their-record-of-unactivated-wins) but it's readily apparent that none of the site staff were convinced. So we perhaps can try this approach next time.
By the way, I sent you a Steam friend request, but I'll take no offense if you decline.
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I'm bumping this thread. I believe that the current system is far too lenient on Unactivated Wins.
I just blacklisted a user for 10 Unactivated Wins (7 of which have been Regifted so far) in the past 14 months.
We need tougher penalties for users who flagrantly break the rules. At which point will a user like that finally be
permabanned? They clearly do not belong or deserve to be on this website.
EDIT: Godly Staff, the user in question has been permabanned due to the report.
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Did you report them? The problem is if it's the first time they have been caught they will likely only end up with a long suspension for that many. I know people can get away with 6 non activations easily. But if it's not the first time or if there are other factors involved (perhaps the regifting) they will likely get a permanent one.
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Yes I made sure to report them. I can't make a report for every single user I come across doing this.
Abrix for Kids had a 20K copy giveaway after all and we have so few support ticket slots.
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I just recently started to check winners and was really shocked how many had inactivated wins
I reported 10 and 8 got suspended
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Obviously the site owner (CG) thinks that it does, because GA creators are currently required to send games to winners with unactivated wins (as long as the winner was already suspended for that infraction). The rationale being that there are only few repeat offenders, and those who get suspended then become good citizens of this community, while the ones who continue with this conduct eventually get reported again, and are then permanently suspended.
The problem with this line of thought is that it puts a never-ending burden on the small minority of contributors who have to go through the process below for many of the giveaways they create. It goes like this:
Depending on the type of giveaway (public / invite-only) and the level, the need to reroll can be very frequent, so much that it becomes really tedious after a while. At the same time it also burdens Support, as they need to deal with this endless stream of pointless tickets. If everyone follows site requirement to check one’s winners it would mean that every winner with unactivated wins would generate a reroll ticket for every subsequent win. To illustrate the absurdity of this - if they didn’t activate their first win and were then suspended for it, their next 100 wins will require 100 new reroll tickets, all rejected by Support.
To me this is not acceptable. It’s a flow that disrespects the time of contributors and Support. There’s an easy solution – just activate your wins. If you need to buy a license, do it. The giveaway creator paid for it after all. If it’s too expensive, trade for it.
A couple of additional notes:
Here’s a
Level 0 giveaway(ended). Let’s see if I have to reroll it.Comment has been collapsed.