You played games a lot? Then it's a best time for you now! You can become a streamer, and if you're good enough - you can get money for doing what you love to do - playing video games.
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Even if you are good enough you will need alot of views and to get enough people to come to your channel, not that easy.
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With that attitude, why try to do anything, ever?
There's no point in being defeatist, we're all going to be dust in 100 years.
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About being a realist, some (kids) would hang their whole life in such an idea, while only few make it, and not claiming it's impossible at all.
Like another forum member here wants to pursue art, a lot of artists that are good but also only few that really make it (and it's so volatile, whille some pieces sell for $100-1000 but if you are Damien Hirst you can sell for millions).
Or those kids thinking they can be a dev, trying to asset flip, i mean "make a game", i had conversations with a dev who made a Rpg Maker game, he constantly updated his game (i gave him ideas to look into), he even gave away some copies, but noone played his game, let alone some people actually buying his game, and he was crushed going "Why is noone playing my game?"
Because he's in a market with 30k other games on steam.
I thought about a gaming channel myself, i got the computer, i got the games, but i decided it would be more hassle then i could be bothered with (and maybe take out the joy of my biggest hobby) i am all for people going for their dreams, but it should be taken with some realism. Like when you are 40 and still go "Oh i want(ed) to be a ballerina."
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Like another forum member here wants to pursue art, a lot of artists that are good but also only few that really make it (and it's so volatile, whille some pieces sell for $100-1000 but if you are Damien Hirst you can sell for millions).
"Making it" is a much broader range than just "selling for millions." Having a side income can ease the stress on your primary.
those kids thinking they can be a dev, trying to asset flip, i mean "make a game", i had conversations with a dev who made a Rpg Maker game, he constantly updated his game (i gave him ideas to look into), he even gave away some copies, but noone played his game, let alone some people actually buying his game, and he was crushed going "Why is noone playing my game?"
He's still made more games than you or me.
I thought about a gaming channel myself, i got the computer, i got the games, but i decided it would be more hassle then i could be bothered with, i am all for people going for their dreams, but it should be taken with some realism.
So what really stopped you wasn't "realism." It was you.
Like when you are 40 and still go "Oh i want(ed) to be a ballerina."
Realistically, being "realist" is often us convincing ourselves of our own pessimism.
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Your final sentence reminded me of something.
"The only thing worse than starting something and failing is not starting something at all." (or something along those lines)
You never know unless you try.
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my only addition to the above is that any/every job requires real work, it isn't fun all the time. Musicians may love playing music, but they might not like having to play the same piece every night, even though that's what the crowd wants.
Professional athletes may like playing their sport, but not having to hit the gym for two hours per day every day, or working with a specific coach to improve a particular skill
Programmers often hate debugging
Artists may love making art, but not the changes their customers keep requesting.
Turning your hobby into your career can be awesome, as long as you take the bad with the good. One of my favorite people said the best jobs are 80% work and 20% glory.
On the other hand, you may not like what your pastime has become. For example, playing games is fun, but getting a job as an alpha-tester means not only playing with an unfinished product, but it also means trying to break the games you play. For a lot of people, that can suck the fun right out of gaming.
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I dunno, 2 years of streaming experience talking here, it's highly unlikely you'll earn much. I think overall my profit in that time was around $30 without taxes. Mind you, I know people who had crazy rises to popularity. But they were always specialty streamers. Those that played same/similar games day in day out. Guess where they ended up. They ended up in a good spot which still wasn't enough to feed him and once he got tired of his niché in a year, he went to other games and he lost around 90% of his audience.
It's possible to live off of streaming. But throwing thousands of hours into an almost literal one in a million shot is idiotic. Spend those thousands of hours supplementing your skills and learning new things and improve your odds at a steady career. Most famous content creators had full time jobs and stable careers before jumping into this. Most of them got extremely lucky. Most got into this business before the platforms were as saturated as they are now.
You're giving legitimately terrible advice that can cost a person their life and happiness.
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I didn't tell anyone to stream games for a living. I also didn't advocate for extreme risk. You're coming at me with a lot of baggage for no reason. It's possible to chase your dreams and contribute to an IRA at the same time.
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But you are kinda telling people to not be a pessimist and should follow whatever they want / have a passion for, regardless if it could cost someone all sorts of other things.
You can say you don't advocate for extreme risk, but alot of <20 year olds reading this sort of things, often don't even grasp whatever risk are attached to such things, they just read "Yeah, to hell with pessimism, i am going to follow my dreams!".
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Again, no I did not. Nowhere did I advocate for all-or-nothing moves. Long-term goals are called long-term for a reason-- you have to plan, be smart, and grind it out. Success is a grind, so try to grind something you enjoy.
Sometimes, that means taking a tangentially related job to fund your startup costs. Often, it means keeping that job while you hone your hobbies into a passive income streams. Over time, you find yourself working less and pursuing passions more.
Edit:
You can say you don't advocate for extreme risk, but alot of <20 year olds reading this sort of things, often don't even grasp whatever risk are attached to such things, they just read "Yeah, to hell with pessimism, i am going to follow my dreams!".
Except, the very comic I posted is an example of someone who took a "realistic approach" and is just now getting time for their passions 10 years later. I am not criticizing this person, I'm saying that's indicative of ourselves. We shouldn't beat ourselves up over a non-existent race. You can still follow your passions even if they don't immediately become your primary income.
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But you're saying that they should pursue that passion. Streaming isn't a thing you can do at random times. It requires a shitload of time and dedication. You can't say "Do this thing that requires your commitment almost at almost full time" and say "I didn't tell them to spend a lot of time on it". Not to mention, you're agreeing with a comment that says that they can make money off of it, so effectively you're telling them to make a living off of it and to make money off of it, you need to dedicate a lot of time to it.
There's no baggage. I don't regret the time I spent streaming. But I didn't do it for what the original comment and you are telling him to do it for. I did it for entertainment.
No matter what you want to pretend your goal was, you in the end encouraged the dude to stream for a living. You can't just say things and pretend they mean something else just because your brain thought other thoughts. I'm reading what you write, not what you think.
You implicitly agreed with the original comment because you disagree with the opposing argument on the original argument.
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Dude, seriously. I did not tell anyone to stream for a living.
I encourage him to make a plan that will eventually allow him to do what he wants, in this case streaming.
You are the one putting the arbitrary time cap on this. It might take him 10-20 years to get to a professional level, with many other tangential jobs in-between to pay the bills. Which, unsurprisingly, is also the case for most career fields.
You implicitly agreed with the original comment because you disagree with the opposing argument on the original argument.
My tone has been completely consistent. For some reason, you're reading my "tortoise" advice for "hare." I wanted to offset Lugum's pessimism by reminding OP that goals are achievable. I didn't say to be reckless about it.
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"You played games a lot? Then it's a best time for you now! You can become a streamer, and if you're good enough - you can get money for doing what you love to do - playing video games."
You agreed with this. This is your stance. You didn't refute anything from there, you didn't add anything. You responded to it and backed up this point. Just because you don't explicitly say every single word again, doesn't change your stance. If a Mein Kampf review had a comment "That Hitler was a pretty swell guy" with a reply "He's a terrible person" and you reply "Don't be so negative about people", you're implicitly showing adoration for Hitler. You might personally like him less or more, but you backed the original statement. So, yes, you are saying that he can start making money from it. Sure, I made a mistake by saying "a living", but you did agree with "make money" and to make money, you need to invest a shitload of time. So that's what you're suggesting. Just because you haven't streamed or are unaware of those time commitments, doesn't mean much because no one is aware of your personal thoughts in your mind. You'd have to be more specific then.
Your "tortoise" advice is a "hare" advice already. You can't have your cake and eat it too. To make money, you need a load of invested, unpaid time with possible monetary investments to start making money through streaming. How the shit do you think a microphone, mediocre PC, video games, internet, electricity and peripherals get paid for? They don't just appear. And you need those things to be appealing. You won't get paid through official channels (like Twitch) for months. But you still need the time investment and the monetary investment. You also won't earn much through donations. It's just life. These things don't appear magically, no matter what you want to pretend it is.
You can't compare an actual career/job to this. It's unreal what you're insinuating. Yeah, it'll take years to climb the career ladder. No shit. But at the same time, you'll earn a stable wage, acquire real experience in that specific field, get better at the thing you're striving for and you'll get a return on investment around 100-200 times faster (hourly wage compared to a wage you'll start earning a few months in if you're as lucky as a double jackpot winner, a year plus if you're just a normal jackpot winner).
You don't know about this subject. Otherwise you wouldn't pretend things were as simple as that. This isn't a "Invest 20 hours and you get this much out of it". You can stream for 100 hours in a single week and get 2 followers, like it was for me. You can also stream for 2 hours and get 30+ followers with a 40 viewer average, like I did as well.
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You agreed with this. This is your stance. You didn't refute anything from there, you didn't add anything. You responded to it and backed up this point.
I was responding to Lugum, I wasn't supporting or defending Ryzhehvost's post. I can see how you (and Lugum) read it as such, though you rushed a bit to get there. My intent was to dissuade defeatism, not support reckless abandon.
If a Mein Kampf review had a comment "That Hitler was a pretty swell guy" with a reply "He's a terrible person" and you reply "Don't be so negative about people", you're implicitly showing adoration for Hitler.
Going to have to stop right here at Godwin's Law. You clearly feel strongly and take issue with how I presented my view. We can discuss further via DMs, but let's not clutter up the thread with walls of text.
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I don't think Lugum was being defeatist. As he said, even if you're good, making money from streaming is not that easy - it is a lot of constant work, and depends a lot on luck. It may be worth trying, but you should go in with the right expectations.
A positive attitude is great, but advocating becoming a professional streamer for a living is like telling someone to become a professional athlete or a movie star - much easier said than done. Give it a shot, sure, but have a backup plan in just case you're not the 1 in 1000 that makes it.
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To be fair, Ryzhehvost didn't tell Warlord to do this for a living. He/she said there are ways to make money from playing games, which is true, for some people.
But yeah I agree that it feels like too many people just jump ahead to the part where they are rich and famous. It takes work and a lot of luck, especially when there is a long line of other people who have the same "goal".
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That was my point yeah, and if you go for it, have a backup plan.
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IKR. That's why I said "and if you're good enough". Still worth a try imo.
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Can't get paid if you live in Iran, since banks are boycott, no paypal, mastercard etc. or any exchange with banks outside the country only way to get money is via bitcoin but I don't think viewers would bother, and even with bitcoin still it's not that easy, since you need to exchange it for real money!
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It's about the same for me, except I always went to public school. I barely completed high school and then University has been a mess. Didn't even find a proper employment.
Fortunately a couple years ago I was addressed by a relative of mine to the railroad world (which doesn't relate to any of my studies), I applied for some job interviews and I finally got a place, went through a 9-month course and now I drive trains, I'm enjoying it so far, colleagues are nice and the pay is good.
My regret is that I went to university pushed by relatives, I didn't really want to, man if only I thought about this many years ago I could have bought a house at this point. Or found a girlfriend. Or whatever I didn't do during these years of nothingness.
I don't know how the situation in Iran is, I don't believe journalists. I hope you'll find your path, be it what you always dreamt of, or something else you didn't already think of.
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Let the past be the past. Your failures already upset you when they occurred, do not allow them to upset you again now in the present.
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Good luck! :)
I, too, thought/dreamed of becoming a game developer for a long while but later realized that working in a game-developing company it will probably be just like working in any other company for me.. so I'll become a game developer only when I have my idea for a game :p
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Regarding a career in game development, in our studio we have had plenty of people who were enthusiasts but not quite at the level to start as a programmer (or an artist, designer and so on...) just yet so they started in QA or customer support and moved on to do what they really wanted to after some time (inside the same studio).
I guess this requires at least a mid-sized studio that can employ full time testers and community representatives though, dunno how many of those are in Iran.
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Ah look, I was a lazy little shite when I was doing my undergrad. No seriously, I really was. I was capable of so much more. I have a pretty high IQ as tested, but I didn't use it. I didn't fail, but I got fairly average grades because like you, I'd just cram the night before. I honestly didn't believe in myself, so I didn't try hard enough. I could have got a first, but meh, I ended up with a second. Academically, I knew I had the ability, but I had no confidence for my life beyond school.
I was a lot more mature when I returned to university some years later to do a Masters in the same subject and then most recently a Software Development postgrad diploma. Came out with First Class Honours both times. That is because I knew then where my priorities were. I did not play any computer games or other stuff during both of those courses. My real life had to take priority.
Maybe deep down, you don't really know what you want, or you don't believe that you can do it. That can be more devastating than anything else.
When I left uni the first time, my undergrad, there was a massive recession. 2008 to be precise. Even if I had came out with top grades, I'd not have got a job in the industry I was trained in because there were no jobs. The guy who got the top grade in the class was working in a bar. I took small jobs too and saved money. It didn't matter what I was doing so long as I was working. I had the mindset to return to uni later, AND I was taking freelance work on the side to keep up my skills.
Basically, if you have to work in a shop for a while, do it. Any job will mean that you are earning money and keeping yourself busy too. Doing nothing will just make yourself depressed. But... at the same time, keep developing your skills as a programmer and keep looking for job openings in that field. Things will improve, but you have to believe in yourself and that you can do it.
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Maybe deep down, you don't really know what you want, or you don't believe that you can do it. That can be more devastating than anything else.
Exactly. this uncertainty is killing me. I know what I want, but believing deeply that I will get there is what I have lack of.
I already have a job as game programmer, but the pay is about $76 for 160 hours of work and besides that, the workplace is not nice in most aspects. I'm studying for IELTS to study abroad. The first problem is this unbalanced place I live in.
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That's actually a natural feeling and plagued me for a long time. I took an internship many years ago with a big company and the senior designer was like "you're the best intern we've ever had." Only then, I realised that I had more to give than I thought. Don't let self doubt hold you back. You probably have so much more than you give yourself credit for. :)
But yes, those wages are disgusting. I dunno what the living expenses are in your country, but that sounds pretty terrible to me. >.>
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There is one thing I am sure about for now. My goal in life! I want to become a game programmer and I really tried hard for that until I lost motivation. There is no considerable outcome after 2 years!
If this is your goal in life, keep trying. Being a game programmer now is the most accessible it's been in decades. Grab one of the many free game design programs and start making games.
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You know yourself and your situation, and you are the one who must choose your own path. Not your parents, not your friends, not your colleagues. You must make the choice yourself, and for yourself. After all, you are the one who must live with your choices, not them. There are some things you want to keep in mind, however. Having a clear understanding of yourself and your situation will help you to make wise choices. I know it seems like a lot to read, but I felt these were all very important reminders in your circumstance.
- Human beings prefer the familiar. It is much easier for us to keep doing what we have been doing all along than it is to do something different. Making a change in behavior or environment is often scary because it means taking risks and putting ourselves in unfamiliar situations. Even if the change is for the good, it will still tend to make us nervous. Trust in your ability to deal with whatever happens next. Do not let fear of the unknown prevent you from trying to improve your life.
- Human beings are creatures of habit. When we don't know what else to do, we do what we have always done. If you want to get rid of a bad habit, or change a behavior, you will need to create a new habit to replace the old one. It will take time before the new habit feels comfortable, and you may slip back into your old habit from time to time, but don't give up. The more you repeat it, the stronger the new habit will become.
- Human beings are social animals. They seek the company of others, and they are affected by the behavior of those around them. Even if we do not like what those around us are doing, the longer we are with them, the more likely we are to behave like them. Socialize with the best people you can find. Not only will it reinforce good behavior, it will deter you from bad behavior. It will also impact your life in general. Good people tend to help one another, so you are likely to help others and to be helped by others in turn.
- Human beings have desires, but those desires do not always fit the time and place. When a baby is growing inside its mother, it has fingers and toes, arms and legs, eyes and ears. These things are necessary and good, but they are meant to be used in a different time and place, not inside the womb. Similarly, our desires are necessary and good when acted upon in the right time and place. Acting upon them in the wrong time and place, however, leads to evil. This is why it is important to control and train one's desires. Be the master of your desires rather than the slave of them. You are the one with the ability to reason, not them, so you should be the one making decisions, not them.
- Human beings are able to overcome many obstacles and to perform amazing feats. Doing such things requires persistence and training. The training strengthens us so that we may do more than we could before. The persistence keeps us going and going until we eventually succeed. A drop of water is nowhere near as hard as stone, yet water can wear down any stone, given enough time. Find solutions, not excuses. If we find an obstacle in our path, we go around it. Or over it. Or under it. Or through it. As long as we do not give up, we may yet succeed in reaching our goal. And if our goal turns out to be "not worth the effort," we find another goal that suits us better.
- Human beings live in the present. What is past cannot be changed, and what the future holds, we cannot see. Our opportunity for action is in the here and now, so that is where our focus should be. Live in the present. Learn from the past, but do not live in it. Let it go. It is never too late to change the path we are on, and what matters is the direction in which we are headed right now. We plan for the future, but understand we are merely taking our best guess. What lies ahead of us may be very different from what we imagined. If it is, we will deal with it in the present and move on.
- Human beings are very resilient. They are able to survive countless trials and tribulations as long as they keep the proper attitude. Worry and depression and despair can destroy a person, however, so we need to avoid them and learn how to deal with them effectively. When Life™ becomes difficult, we need to focus on what is important, and that is whatever we need to be doing right now. Take things one step at a time. Do not let what has happened drag you down, and do not worry about what might yet be. Just do what needs to be done in this instant. And after that, do the next thing. And then the next. Life™ is constantly changing, and as long as we are moving from one step to the next, our situation will also change. How do we eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
I hope I have written something that is useful to you.
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Thanks for that. It should be useful for others too
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I kind of there know where you're coming from. I hated school and studying. I also thought I hated people for a long time. Couldn't really understand that I was just bitter about a lot of things. My health was dictated by chance and I had a lot of health problems growing up which secluded me from other people. Despite all my own personal problems there was never any help from anyone and yet a high pressure to succeed.
One day, I had a nightmare. A giant snake ate my parents and siblings. Despite telling myself I hated everyone, I realized how painful it was to lose what little I had. In my nightmare I cried for the people I had lost and swore to get them back. In spite of my fear of snakes, I was more angry at myself than anything for just standing there and letting it happen. I found the snake and fought it with just my nails and teeth. I tore it open with my bite and dug into it to find my family.
That nightmare changed me and I no longer let myself dwell on the cards I was dealt in life, but made changes to correct my habits. Seek help and seek to help others. That last one reinvigorated in me my purpose in life. I'm not a victim, but a hero in my story. I can always train myself and get stronger.
If you want to be a game developer, great. Just keep training yourself. I like how this video puts it if you want to be game developer. You gotta get a lot of experience outside of gaming first. Be open-minded and try a lot of things out.
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Back in the time I was a kid, life was beautiful. I was busy playing with toys and going to an elementary school that was full of things to play with. The only thing that I wanted was to grow older and to become an adult, so I can be a pilot and go around independently.
I grew older and went to middle school. It was a school for talented children. Most of the children there, studied every day to get highest marks. I didn’t find any reason to act like them. I continued enjoying my childhood. That brought about a problem. My marks started getting lower and lower. I hid the fact from my parents. I could still prepare for exams in a night. The teachers also were too kind to ask my parents to come to school just because my marks were not as high as most of my classmates’. So that 3 years passed with ease but not like the earlier years.
I continued studying in that school for high school. I really can’t call that “studying” though! I wasted most of the most important years of my life playing video games. The consequence wasn’t surprising. I failed myself and my parents by going to a private university. I thought I learnt my lesson. I did but it was too hard to change.
These 2 last years of my life, I tried hard to become the person I like to be. There is one thing I’ve been sure about since then. My goal in life! I want to become a game programmer and I really tried hard for that until I lost motivation. There is no considerable outcome after 2 years! But I know this isn’t my fault. The opportunities haven’t been so many. On the other hand, things were not going well in Iran, specially economically. I have got depressed as hell. I found moving out the only option for me to get out of this life I’ve made for myself. I hope I do…
-As you may wonder, It’s all true.
Update: Thanks for all your comments! (it would be spammy to reply to each comment!)
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