It's Zombies Corporate lifestyle Simulator all over again
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So he's basically saying he's willing to give us a tech demo of the actual game.
Quote: "This game was made for VR from the ground up. At the time of the groupees bundle last October this was just a tech demo. More and more interest in a full "Game" has made me work 100 hours a week for all of this year to turn it into that :)"
Well, IMHO, it's wrong to promise a game on groupees and then only serve a tech demo to the customers - but this would not be the first dev to give in, because he'll soon find himself in a great shitstorm if he sticks to the "you get what you payed for, and you didn't pay for the full game".
Like others have already pointed out in that "discussion" (dev started to delete posts ...), if he claims those are 2 different games and we only payed for the tech demo, then he should have made 2 greenlight entries.
Edit 2: Seems he's already giving in a little. Quote: "Be rest assured i will be emailing groupees and steam later this week, and will post on the discussion what conclusion we have agreed on."
Edit 3: wow, he's actually going the extra mile will create a new greenlight entry:
I was waiting to hear back from steam and groupees as I said at the start of this. I was hoping that groupees would reply letting me issue keys for the game instead. But as you guys don't want to give me chance to do it that way! Then you will have the game you signed up for!
for the last day, After being called a fraud, scam, greedy etc. I have decided!
Ghostship aftermath will now change to the game you guys signed up for.
The full survival horror game will open a new greenlight page and we will take it from there! I will be changing it back to what you guys want, and releasing it to you at the end of the month.
i am sorry for spoiling this for everyone who wanted what this game has become.
this is ... just wow. I can understand that he gets pissed if people start to call him a scammer and a fraud, but IMHO he brought that upon himself.
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There's nothing to "agree on" as far as I can see.
The bundle promised everyone a copy of the Greenlit game, and that's what they need to deliver. This is a really weasely move.
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I just had to have a go at Mikey in that thread ;) Even if I don't have the game on Groupees his blind rage-defending is just too hilarious not to leave a flamey comment. I would recommend to do the same if you want to have a good laugh.
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I had actually totally forgotten about this game, basically only bought the bundle for this and The Curse of Blackwater.
This is the description of it from my Groupees profile:
"Explore a huge space craft after a horrific incident. This huge free roaming experience is the first to give you chance to explore a huge military space craft at your leisure free roaming style. The first virtual reality experience where you can explore a huge spacecraft, the ship was overrun by a hostile alien force. There are no weapons; there is nothing that can kill you! You are free to explore this huge dark and creepy spacecraft in full virtual reality using Oculus rift. The CDF Goliath is the same ship to feature in the CDF Ghostship game which includes the story-line, enemies and weapons. Aftermath is a sci-fi exploration experience where you can access computers, logs and work out simple puzzles and operate parts of the ship."
Don't know that I'm that annoyed, but it would be better if it was one or the other. I really enjoy exploration games so I'd be fine with that, but this is kind of just cheating people a bit I think.
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http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/updates/175581955/1401719012
Hi everyone. With all the very hostile comments on releasing the game as we have it now. We are now reverting back to the original game description and game which the groupees bundles where purchased under. This will be released as normal and steam keys will be issued upon release. For the game we have now which is a full survival Horror game with enemies, objectives death etc We will be starting a new greenlight page for those who want an epic sci-fi game. We will keep you informed and post links to our new greenlight page. We are sorry for any inconvenience caused to those who wanted the game we have now. As soon as we get greenlit with the newly named game we can get the game released! All our pre-orders will receive the new game and will still have access to all new beta material before launch! Thanks for your support
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shrugs
They could just call the other game " Director's Cut" or " HD" and get away with it. cough Deus Ex cough Zombie Driver cough
The game isn't released yet and it's their right to do so. They mentioned that everyone who pre-purchased will get the new version, so the trimmed down version will probably only be for groupees customers.
I'd say: let's just wait until they update their posts after their talk with Groupees and Steam. The current reaction "We will just dumb down the game so you get what you payed for" is somewhat childish.
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They'll get my thumbsdown once it shows its ugly head on Greenlight. You wanna mess with the public? You'll get what you deserve.
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Because they don't see it that way. They just see the effort they put into the game and feel they need a reward for that.
Which is understandable, but on the other hand what I see in this case in that they were selling an unfinished game with the Groupees bundle and now they want to give just that to those who bought it. Imagine if Early Access on Steam worked that way! :P
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oh i understand their side a bit too well, as an aspiring game developer! The thing is they cant fuck with the internet, and by fuck i mean bait and switch! This kind of communication is like a quicksand, you can only go down! Summing up: he doesnt know how to handle it!
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Will Steam actually let him release a paid tech demo and then a full version of the game?
A dev should try in the future to say that their bundled game project was cancelled and the game that got greenlit is an entirely different game!
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I buy that bundle just for this game, but what they are doing is actualy valid. They will provide us steam key to space exploration game (what was promised). During development they decide to make game with survival elements with enemies etc, with is beyond what was advertisment and looks more like expansion so for me its okay what are doing now.
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Dev should release additional content as DLC/expansion. Problem solved.
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that's also discussed in the steam thread. however the devs seems to be going back and forth, saying we get the game as advertised on groupees, saying we might get the whole game, going back and saying we will get a dumbed down version, saying he might release the additional content as DLC and finally claiming he will not release the game on Steam at all.
I've subbed to the discussion, read every post and he really should just have closed his browser hours ago and waited for an answer from Steam / groupees on how to handle this and maybe sleep over it before making more posts.
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I decided to actually chime in with some ideas. I know the original was NOT to be a shooter, but kept following along it after it turned into a shooter during development.
He originally was just releasing and pushing the as-is-current-not-dumbed-down version to everyone. Including the groupees people. Then the flames over what was going out started (because it WAS an explore only thing - it DIDN'T have the fighting originally), then well... it got aliens and weapons added into the coding.
Edit:
I finished reading the entire thread. shaun is the scum of the earth and mike is his sock puppet with this entire thing done to build up awareness for his game.
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I didn't get the Greenlight bundle for that game so doesn't matter to me if I get it or not but here is my thoughts.
From my understanding Greenlight on steam is not meant to get "Tech Demos" or just "Demos" of games onto Steam. It is meant to get full fledged games on there.
When its advertised (with the Devs ok) that you will get a key for the game, and all links link back to the Greenlight page where they are trying to get votes to be put on Steam, then to my understanding those who buy it from those 3rd party sites are to receive the full fledged game and not a "Tech Demo" or "Demo".
A Tech Demo or Demo is not something Steam sells.
This could be viewed as fraud, specially with the devs changing text after the fact to say its just some sort of demo.
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Oh and I looked at the greenlight page, at some point I clicked yes and followed the page so this does tell me one thing. I dislike games where I am just going around trying to figure out a mystery with no action or anything like that and I don't have and never will have Oculus Rift. So at the point I hit yes on the greenlight page, it must have had the description of fighting aliens and picking up guns and low amounts of ammo as someone else has pointed out else where.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by shaun:
Ghostship aftermath will now change to the game you guys signed up for.
We signed up for:
Huge focus on Atmosphere, Sound and story-line as well as game-play.
Huge Free roaming environment - Spaceship, space station and colony base.
Multiple story-lines and random events to make every new game as good as the first!
Various enemy types - Aliens, Zombies, Mutants, ghosts, Humans and AI.
Real physics and zero-g physics.
Oxygen - You start with 1 hour and 40 mins - sounds like a long time! When sprinting you use it up 4 times quicker! Find more to survive!
Real consequences! Many of your actions will be a deciding factor in your game.
Native Oculus Rift & 3d game. Also available on normal a monitor (using middle-mouse hold to look around your helmet).
Epic immersion with the helmet, its functions and the whole game being played from a first person view!
Scavenge a variety of weapons, ammo is very rare so don't be afraid to run!
As stated on greenlight page we voted for.
[/QUOTE]
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wrong!
the greenlight bundle was in october 2013 and this is what the greenlight page looked like back then:
snapshot from greenlight page octobre 2013
So the Dev now will deliver exactly for what people voted back then, the new features should be added as DLC instead of new game.
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And right on that page, in the comments section, the dev is advertising the new mode with the zombies fights. (Even linking to a Youtube video where we can see it in action)
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I agree this was not a good move from the dev.
And good he changed his mind already so everyone gets what was advertised back then.
If he would give us the full game that would be great, and generally thats what greenlighted games do.
But technically he is now in the right, thats what I wanted to point out with linking that snapshot.
Still this is bad PR for them.
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Nope he isn't.
The Groupees page promises a key when the game is Greenlit. That's a key to the finished game, not some alternative version or half-arsed beta candidate.
Technically, the guy is a weasel, and is trying to avoid his obligations - the same obligations that every other company who used Groupees has managed to fulfil.
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As I understand him after his many mind changes, now everyone will get the final release build of the game with all features like it was originally planned and advertised on groupees and on greenlight.
The improved storyline, weapons and enemies are not part of the free roaming game we got in the bundle and voted for and this would make the game totally different gameplay wise.
So this will be added as a DLC, which I think is fine since it changes gameplay dramatically.
I think he is in the right with doing that, still its not what I would do as a dev.
The perfect option would be to make a game with both versions included and make a switch so you can choose if you want to play exploring version or shooter version.
Also if he would do that it would be free positive PR for him, I agree the way he is handling this stuff is horrible.
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Best option for him would be to include the 'dlc' if he decides to call it that, with the fighting/shooter aspect, then have the free roaming version included.
The way it progresses on the steam page, is showing both the free roaming exploration one, and the shooter as being the same game. It's not until you dig a little into the green lit page that it shows that there's more than one version.
They were lazy and now they're paying for being lazy through having angry customers. And they're threatening to.... cut themselves off from a distributor that's huge.
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Thats what it said then, for all you know it was changed after that.
This is what I said "So at the point I hit yes on the greenlight page" that means, what ever the date was when I hit yes on the greenlight page it must have had something that attracted me to it and I'm not the kind of person that is attracted to just running around with nothing to shoot and trying to figure out a mystery. Games like that are boring to me. I'm into FPS, racing, flight combat. There are a few exceptions but its because they are game types I played 15-20 years ago which also still do not include mystery type games.
And here we go, this looks like what might have gotten me to click the yes on the page
https://web.archive.org/web/20140419134313/http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=175581955
April 19, 2014
[QUOTE]
Thanks to everyone for your support! Thanks for your feedback and suggestions. Aftermath has grown from a tech demo into to something very special for sci-fi fans, and essential for Oculus Rift owners.
Ghostship Aftermath is the first of a new breed of Survival horror! We create the atmosphere, the story and the game! And then we put you there ! With a movie-style survival Free-Roaming horror adventure! Be prepared for anything to happen on the Ghostship!
If you liked movies like Event horizon, Aliens, The Thing, Pandorum & Deep Rising then this is the game for you!
Ghostship is set almost 350 years in the future within the CDF universe (Colonial Defense Force). In Ghostship Aftermath, you are one of a two manned team - ASET (Advance Scientific Evaluation Team) Who have been sent in as a primary evaluation team to investigate a possible infection. As a two manned team you must venture into the Icarus system where all communications have been lost for almost 2 weeks. The CDF Goliath is a war ship (Dreadnought Class) which has been sent to investigate the loss of comms with the Icarus system, she is now presumed a Ghostship.
As you find out what happened on board the CDF Goliath, a new story-line will emerge! one for your own survival! Be prepared for anything on board the Ghostship!
KEY FEATURES!
*Huge focus on Atmosphere, Sound and story-line as well as game-play.
*Huge Free roaming environment - Spaceship, space station and colony base.
*Multiple story-lines and random events to make every new game as good as the first!
*Various enemy types - Aliens, Zombies, Mutants, ghosts, Humans and AI.
*Real physics and zero-g physics.
*Oxygen - You start with 1 hour and 40 mins - sounds like a long time! When sprinting you use it up 4 times quicker! Find more to survive!
*Real consequences! Many of your actions will be a deciding factor in your game.
*Native Oculus Rift & 3d game. Also available on normal a monitor (using middle-mouse hold to look around your helmet).
*Epic immersion with the helmet, its functions and the whole game being played from a first person view!
*Scavenge a variety of weapons, ammo is very rare so don't be afraid to run!
There are lots more features to Ghostship Aftermath, but we don't want to spoil to many surprises.
[/QUOTE]
So there we have it, they advertised having aliens and weapons and stuff like that. They changed the greenlight page and added stuff sometime between December 2013 and April 2014.
So to me, having that on THAT PAGE means every person who bought it in groupees should get the FULL game. If they don't want to do that, then they should never have added that to the greenlight page that was linked to the groupees bundle.
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Well, the guy didnt lied.
Its not a demo, its not a beta. Its actually a space walking simulator with the oculus rift.
One of the first games of the new generation with this technology, and you still want to shoot some damm zombies? Really?
You guys are getting what you signed for.
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He did make people vote for Ghostship Aftermath and then he offered him Ghostship Aftermath - The Experience. It's like I would charge you for Company of Heroes 2 and offer you Company of Heroes 2 Multiplayer Only instead.
And right now he is pushing it a lot, refusing to release it on steam and all that stuff, he is probably just waiting for the conflict to die off and then he will still do as he wants. It's clear that he's trying to cash out as much as possible.
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He didnt made anyone to vote, he asked to vote and people did, either bribed or not, thats not the issue there.
The main thing is that they are having the argument about the sale @ groupees, in which, actually, the games advertised was the one he will provide steam keys for.
As far as i remember (since the post was already deleted). He said that the proper keys will be given to the people according to what they voted. The ones who got the game at groupees, they will receive the walking simulator, the ones who did vote @ greenlight, they would receive the final release. Im pretty sure that i readed that.
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You clearly didn't get what I am saying. My point is pretty simple, descriptions aside, the game from the Groupees bundle is called Ghostship Aftermath and when clicking on the Vote this game on Greenlight page I got sent to that of this same Ghostship Aftermath page, not one that said Ghostship Aftermath - The Experience. What the dev did in the following months and how much he improved it is his business and not mine.
Developer's attitude aside, I would be happy if he just gave me the Ghostship Aftermath from the Groupees description, but ONLY if he made a separate greenlight page for the "full" game. I want to get Ghostship Aftermath, not Ghostship Aftermath - The Demo when I bought a bundle and voted on Ghostship Aftermath.
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You ordered Pizza based on its name. Pizza with Onion. You'll be getting Pizza with Onion as promised. Whether the description is written in English, Italia or Indonesia language doesn't matter.
It's the title that counts.
And would people read the description? Only the title. Once the title matches with the Greenlight page, people vote in hopes of getting +1 steam count later.
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We were promised the final game we voted for on Greenlight. We paid, we voted, we should get it.
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^ this.
It's a flagrant abuse of the Groupees/Greenlight system, and the guy is an absolute weasel. For the record, I didn't even buy this particular bundle, but ballbag developers shouldn't be let off the hook.
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I will not explain the whole set of things again as I believe that I have done it enough, what I will restate is this: The description from the groupees page is for Ghostship Aftermath, YES, that is what the game was supposed to be.
It's been over 7 months since that bundle happened and since then the dev added a lot of new things to the game, so now he wants to give us THAT version of the game(demo), despite the fact that he made us vote for THIS game.
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In the lower right-hand corner of the picture, there's an image link to Greenlight. It says "Vote for this game on Greenlight, and receive a free steam key when it is greenlit". The link went to the Greenlight page for the "full" version of the game. This is the crux of the issue; he promised the "tech demo" version with the bundle, but people who voted for the game on Greenlight did so under the terms that they would receive the steam key for the "Full" version. People started complaining when they were told that despite voting for the game to be greenlit, they aren't getting the keys.
I'll set aside the precise legality of that because I don't feel like spending all day looking that up. I'll assume that the dev is 100% legally allowed not to provide Steam keys for the full game. Even if that happens to be the case, it means that the developer used misleading language and technicalities to take advantage of Groupees bundles and Groupees consumers. It damages people's trust in Groupees, because it means in future that other developers can claim the same, as well as mislead them into paying and voting for something they were never going to get. At the very best this is shady behaviour, and sets a horrible precedent for future Greenlight bundles. That's plenty reasonable grounds for complaining, even without questioning whether it was legal.
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If you actually think that there is anything in groupees contracts that would forbid a developer who clearly was selling a prerelease title from fulfilling their legal obligation to provide Groupee customers with the final version of the game over a change in tone or gameplay mechanics, you're crazy.
The dev is hiding behind this fake "legal obligation" to "provide what people paid for" as an excuse to double charge customers.
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I don't think that even slightly, as it happens. I just REALLY couldn't be bothered checking to see if it was actually illegal. I was saying that even best-case for the developers and what they were doing WAS legal, it's still a pretty foul stunt to pull.
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Oh wow, I now feel really bad for the dev, seeing him explode like that under pressure... (I wasn't a part of the hate train, I never even bought the bundle)
But I feel that groupees should have been more clear on what game people were getting once it gets greenlit, as from that description you can't really expect not to get the full game on steam.
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You didn't fully get it. That was the full game initially, but over the months he improved it and he wants to give us only a demo version despite the fact that he made us vote for the full one. It's not about Groupees being unclear, it's about the developer being greedy.
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It is a beta, it still is a beta. The game was, and still is listed as a preorder on their website. It is clear it was not finished at the time, and it certainly is not yet finished.
They sold a provably unfinished product as if it were finished, and now they're trying to weasel out of providing the finished product to their customers.
It is understood that game design may change as time progresses, but you didn't see Ubisoft pocketing preorder money while not actually providing Watch_Dogs to anyone just because the game had become something vastly different from what the people originally paid for.
Furthermore, you're completely overlooking that the groupees page directly links the Greenlight page, where the devs were regularly updating the game description with changes to the design. The link directly implies that the game I bought is the same game they were posting about on their greenlight page.
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Dev quits, says the game will not be released on Steam, and bundles refunded (Is that a joke?)
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Uhh, looks like answer for smb else. But still they say, that there will be 2 versions of game. That what you get and full. If you want full you need buy it second time...
I don't know, what they plan do to other people, who buy it. But in my opinion grupees release games, which aren't worth to buy it, so I never buy even 1 time. Here you just get another example why don't buy from groupees.
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not sure how he plans to make refund considering his game was a part of a bundle. and it was a bonus game at that :D
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THIS right here is why no one should ever ever ever pre-order or kickstart or anything a game until it has a proper full release with REAL reviews of that full release so we know what we are getting.
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While I agree with you, this is a different thing. The game existed and was downloadable and playable when Groupees sold the bundle. But I still agree with you about preorders and Kickstarter.
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"Existed" is pretty loose. It was an alpha demo, it was what people who preordered through their website got as a teaser. The groupees bundle made no indication that it was unfinished, alpha, or that that would be the effective final version of the game for those customers.
Either the developers withheld information or simply changed their minds on a whim as so many other developers have done.
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2y 100h weekly for dev so poor game, without many things? Dev kidding us.
"We originally planned no enemies, objectives etc! If we give the groupees guys the game we have now, we would be breaking our terms and conditions with groupees as this is now a very different game than was first planned. To satisfy everyone's needs, there will be the 2 versions of Aftermath. The experience, and the Survival horror. "
Haha, so groupees really release trash games/ version. I think 1 time to buy package, but after saw at youtube how poor that games was - I change my mind and not buy.// When I looks at groupees presentation, I supposed much better games.
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So what's the current difference between Ghostship Aftermath and their other game, CDF Ghostship? It looks to me like they were merged.
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This is tragic. I don't care who is right and I don't care if I ever get the game (whatever game). I am tired of feeling like a beggar with those greenlight games on bundles and I have to search SG to find which bundles give keys instead of a proper announcement by the appropriate bundle. I don't need this.
I, personally, am goind to avoid any future greenlight bundle game as much as possible. Also, enough shitty games have been released in steam because of that model. Some were good, but the majority that has come out of greenlight is rubbish.
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I think you have the right idea. Consider me next to you on this.
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The trick with early access games is that you have to inform yourself on the developers before investing too much. I have Assetto Corsa and The Golf Club and NEVER regretted my purchase on the contrary. It's an amazing concept when the developers are faithful and down to earth with promises but some unknown developers seem to take advantage of the Greenlight visibility this is what you get in return unfortunately.
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Bwahaha, this is hilarious. Even if you get groupees to refund ya'll you'll still have given this dumbass bait-and-switch developer your greenlight votes which is all he wanted + the media attention. So not only do you have to complain to groupees, you also have to report this to Valve for fraud. Just an FYI to the people too upset to see the entire situation clearly and need to get their asses to the correct places. :)
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I was looking at that too, though the bad press... not good for the new game (Which will probably never see the light of day)
I am also convinced 'Mike' is a sock puppet of Shaun.
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Entertainingly, "Mike" has now been banned, although presumably not by the developers in whose collective rectum he was firmly lodged.
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Some people say any publicity is good publicity, but it clearly isn't.
Gary Glitter's record sales went down, not up after he was caught kiddy fiddling, and this dev isn't likely to see increased sales from being outed as a duplicitous ballbag, and a monumental weasel.
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so if i got it right, they want to sell alpha version as one game and finished version as new greenlight product? now thats cool :D
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Official announcement (main info is in the comments)
Basically the dev claims that bundle buyers will receive only a free-roam version, called Ghostship Aftermath: the Experience. Which will be without any enemies (which is basically a demo or an alpha), while the greenlight page especially mentions "Various enemy types - Aliens, Zombies, Mutants, ghosts, Humans and AI". I cannot but feel cheated.
UPD: Now he started deleting comments under the announcement.
UPD2: The dev promises that he won't delete comments if they stay in this thread.
UPD3: More creative ideas from shaun, the lead dev (I didn't make it up, just glance through the thread):
The other dev, bongobails, claims that they are still happy to provide the full version to bundle buyers, but he feels that most people won't like it and would prefer the "free-roam" version.
UPD4: The devs made an apology, latest announcement promises the full game for bundle buyers. Two previous announcements were deleted. Another thread was created in which shaun denies the fact that another version was intended to be given to groupees buyers.
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