Too high?
Thanks but I didn't pass, I don't like the SGtools giveaways. They add more restrictions and I hope this will go away after some time.
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It might just as well be the other way around. Giveaways that would otherwise end up in groups with high ratio requirements make it out in the forums instead.
This giveaway was obviously made for some of the most generous (and/or unlucky) members of Steamgifts. I don't pass, but I'm cool with that. This will be a high chance giveaway for those who have given away much more than they have won, let's let them enjoy that. There are thousands of other giveaways for the rest of us to join in on.
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I just don't like where this is going, when making a Level3+ giveaway all Level3+ users should be able to join. Making up more rules is not the way this website was intended in the first place.
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It isn't possible to join all Level3+ giveaways, as some giveaways are group/whitelist and invite only. This is an invite only giveaway, and the giveaway creator has chosen to distribute the link through SGtools. It would be possible to create an invite-only giveaway, manually browse for users who have the right sent/won ratio, add them on Steam and send the link there. SGtools just makes it easier, and invites even more people to join the party than if the links were sent out manually to a select few.
If you think Steamgifts should remove all group/whitelist/invite only possibilities and only keep the level system as a restriction for who could enter, then I see why you don't like much of what's going on.
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But if I come across a private ga link in the forum for let's say Level3+ I can join it no matter what as long as I'm not blacklisted and Level3+ of course.
And I have no problems at all with group/whitelisted/invite only ga's since they do not add extra rules to enter said giveaway, except of course being part of the group/whitelist.
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This isn't a private giveaway link. Sure, you can use the SGtools link to get to an invite-only giveaway link, but that's not what the giveaway creator is sharing.
It's more comparable to a link to an itstoohard.com puzzle, or a "post a fun gif and I'll add you to my whitelist/send you an invite only giveaway link on Steam" thread. Same thing there, both puzzles and threads with other "requests" pass as "extra rules to enter" (your words) giveaways, only that the rules there are : "be smart enough to solve this" or "post the specific thing I ask for" instead of "have an account on Steamgifts that has achieved these things".
I'm not trying to start a fight here ;) Hope you'll get what I'm trying to say about this kind of giveaway. The "extra rules" aren't that different from a puzzle, or a user requesting something else before handing out the giveaway link. In all cases, no direct giveaway link is found in the post, you must perform something extra to get it.
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Actually it's very different from a puzzle since everyone with a sane mind can solve those, but when using SGtools you can exclude people from your ga's with the weirdest rules.
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It takes more than a sane mind to guess what some puzzle creators are thinking about having smoked whoknowswhat before creating their itstoohard-puzzles...
I think the SGtools-requirements make it so most people get to see more giveaways. Yes, some of those giveaways have requirements that aren't met, but for the fun of it, I'll assume 10 extra giveaways are posted on the forums that would otherwise have been either whitelist or group giveaways. If someone only meets the requirements to enter one of these, that's still one more giveaway than if SGtools didn't exist :)
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Having read some of the solutions in some puzzles, some things were far beyond a "sane mind". Download this hidden image i hid in a frame of a youtube video, then extract the c++ code from the image you'll have to edit with false colours and invert it, while doing this, that and making a handstand. Some of the puzzles are just ridiculous, some are misleading, some are plain trolling.
In general: I don't like puzzles and I don't take part in them. Especially because some users make hard and long puzzles and then just give away bundle trash they have left over. At least name the games you're giving away, then I can decide if it's worth my time...
With this giveaway in particular, I just make certain statements:
1) it doesn't hurt if you've given more than taken
2) I don't like users taking more than giving - because honestly, there's some really, really bad library boosting and leeching going on around here and I simply don't like that.
3) it also (kind of) rewards unlucky users and users that don't enter everything for the sake of entering it.
Sorry you don't like it. On the other hand, I'm spending 4,6€ on this. Yeah, ain't much, but dammit, I can decide who I wanna spend my 4,6€ on. There have been others who I've spent much more money (double-digit, which I deem as a "higher amount") on and they didn't have the decency to thank me OR play the f**** game. As you can imagine, this had some consequences on my outlook on SG in general (among other things)
The level 3 requirement was before I decided to make this an SGtools giveaway (was my first one) - I would've left it at no level requirement if it'd been my original plan. Next time, my SGtools GA will be level 0, I promise ;)
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Oh, and the giveaway has already 10 entries in about 2 hours. That's more entries than the giveaways in some puzzle threads or "hey, I made a giveaway for the cool people on my whitelist" threads get in the same amount of time ;) Seems like it works very well.
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I like these 2 rules:
. Your account must have activated all the won gifts
. Your account is not allowed to have won the same game multiple times.
...so, i hope it doesnt go anywhere
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Well to be honest those 2 rules i have no problem with at all, but the ratio rules are not necessary in my opinion.
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Why not?
There are lucky users who win lots of games and unlucky who doesn't win at all. So I like to give better chances to people who doesn't win often by setting 0,75 - 0,8 ratio.
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Generous people already have money on games to spent, while people who would appreciate those games because they e.g. can't afford it are not given any chance to win them. Moreover, you actually penalty them for their luck.
Reward people that are not breaking site's rules and those who appreciate the gifts. I prefer that my game will go to the guy with 22 won 5 given as long as he'll appreciate it and play someday. I see no reason to give away a game to a guy who given so much that he could as well buy one for himself. Look at me, I'm not even playing those games anymore, I'm gambling.
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I prefer that my game will go to the guy with 22 won 5 given as long as he'll appreciate it and play someday.
How do you know that these people would be more likely to play though? I see no reason to believe this actually.
And I'd bet someone who has given 100 but only won 5 will appreciate a good 6th win even more.
are not given any chance to win them.
There are tons more unrestricted/low-level GAs around than the handful with extra requirements. Plenty of chance for them, and I've seen enough low-level + high-win-amount users that show it to be possible.
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I don't know, I can only guess. in general a guy in need appreciates gift more than a guy who can afford 5 of them. There are some ungrateful people trying to leech everything possible, but there are also many of those who are simply using this site as it's supposed to be used - by joining and winning giveaways.
Did I say anywhere that it's not possible to win anything? I say that sgtools caused some people to put hilarious restrictions that basically penalty everyone who got either more lucky than somebody else, or simply is using this site as he's supposed to - by joining and winning giveaways. People are using more and more restriction rules rather than enjoying giving games away to random people. We have CV, which in general is appreciated because it's another thing that encourages people to give away more, but now we have things that basically discourage people from winning, which is in my opinion - a total disaster.
And no, I'm not ranting about something because I can't get through - I already won enough, I'm not playing those games anymore because of massive backlog I'm trying to get through. I just admit that what is happening here is basically asking millionaires if they want extra 100$ - some will say yes, but do you really have to forbid everyone else who is interested in particular game because they gave away less?
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a guy in need
How can you distinguish a 26 to 5 guy, if he is in need or just a leech? (or something in between) I see no way to accurately tell, but from experience: when there is stuff for free, most simply try to grab as much as they can without even remotely 'needing' it, so.. And if they are 'successful' with that approach and have no reason to change (aka give something back), is that really so good?
using this site as it's supposed to be used
Creating GAs and gifting is also a part of that. Without that, there's nothing to win either.
hilarious restrictions
yah, sure some are extreme. But is level 10 not extreme either? Having gifted thousands of dollars sounds much to me.
Oh and instead of SGT, people could form groups with hilarious restrictions. Same result, but even less access to those GAs.
penalty everyone who got either more lucky than somebody else, or simply is using this site as he's supposed to
You're taking it the wrong way here. Those reqs benefit everyone who has given even more. If winning is such an 'issue', it's still possible to offset it by giving more again.
That acts, just like basic CV, as an incentive to gift just the same.
With your argumentation angle it sounds like taking a lot (without giving much/anything back) is a good thing that should even be encouraged more. I don't think so. And I certainly see not too few takers. So that I don't see any confirmation, that these GAs actually make people join less GAs.
But wait I just get the thought, you are actually the one running a group with a 1:1 ratio, (which is mathematically already at the limit to what is possible at all by the way. In practice it basically needs 'leeches' that get kicked out to sustain the 'good members'). Such a harsh requirement hinders people from joining (your) GAs which I see you projecting the issue from your group onto sgtools, but as SGT is an open system with an infinite pool of users who can improve their ratios on other GA types, that same hindrance doesn't build up there.
enjoying giving games away to random people.
well here, I enjoy giving to someone with a reasonable/high ratio way more than to a 50 to 3 guy. So SGT is making my experience of gifting a way more pleasant one (especially with the rule-check, nothing is more disappointing than getiing a negative reply from support. Plenty of threads about that)
do you really have to forbid everyone else who is interested in particular game
That means those 700 entries on GabeN The Final Decision on a public, unrestricted 1 hour GA supposedly really consist of only, or even just majority, of people who are actually interested in the game? oh come on..
millionaires
You really think that? Read some of their stories, very few millionaires around here...
I'm not ranting about something because I can't get through
Except it's always those who don't pass that rant. And I just noticed the reason why :-( (what happened there with that DLC pack?)
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But wait I just get the thought, you are actually the one running a group with a 1:1 ratio, (which is mathematically already at the limit to what is possible at all by the way. In practice it basically needs 'leeches' that get kicked out to sustain the 'good members'). Such a harsh requirement hinders people from joining (your) GAs which I see you projecting the issue from your group onto sgtools, but as SGT is an open system with an infinite pool of users who can improve their ratios on other GA types, that same hindrance doesn't build up there.
Not true, Touhou Giveaways is 0.75 group, we allow people to win more than they give. I myself have group ratio of less than 1.0, and I don't consider it bad. Ratio is here to enforce limits on some people (including me) who otherwise would probably not give as much. In practice though, nobody needs to be reminded of the rules, because people tend to play fair.
At the end, the objective of 0.75 ratio is to encourage both making AND winning giveaways, actually more winning that giving, because running a 1:1 group is pointless in my opinion.
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Guess I didn't get that part that precisely. Would you then be 'ok' with SGT GAs requiring a 'modest' ratio in between of 0.7 to 1.5 (or max 2)?
Just to say, I don't disagree with such a in-group ratio rule. Still that obviously makes people enter less especially for lower quality/in demand bundled games.
nobody needs to be reminded of the rules
Considering the application process chooses the best people, that isn't surprising (and ofc a good thing)
running a 1:1 group is pointless
because it's mathematically next to impossible (without any leeway) ;-)
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You got me wrong. As I said, I'm not ranting about it. It's just a tool, it's up to people how they want to use it. When I see a guy having unbelievable requirement for his whitelist/group/giveaway, I have appropriate opinion. Similar, if I see a guy using SGT and requiring from people something I consider weird, such as not winning more than X on a giveaway site, I think appropriately as well.
Personally, I can't express how good it is considering no unactivated wins + no multiple wins, because enforcing SG rules is actually a good thing, same as CV levels. But basically that's where it finishes, everything else is just another restriction being put.
You are the one who give away stuff, and you can decide who will be eligible to enter for it. I just express my opinion that I'm slowly starting to see more and more restrictions being put by people using SGT, and it's negative because it prohibits from joining people that didn't do anything wrong. Don't get me wrong - group giveaways is pretty much the same thing, and I know that you can achieve the same thing just by creating your own group, it's more like people won't start shooting each other if you don't give them guns.
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Then a simple last question. Is a reasonable ratio req. alright?
The max win amount (and max level) is something I have the biggest issue with too. So is it just a matter of keeping it within sane parameters instead of the tool itself being the problem?
One idea I got about the group ratio. A min ratio only forces to give (aka not being just a leech) Encouraging winning however would need a max ratio of 1.25. That would keep things in balance.
As you have access to advanced group statistics, I'd really like to know, what is the highest ratio in Touhou currently?
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You can check those statistics yourself. Keep in mind though that "ratio" is a weird term because in my group everybody can set his own value for giveaway, so it's a ratio of inside-group currency, not the ratio of giveaways in $$$. That's why users are sorted by points allowed by default. "Ratio" doesn't give good insight.
In fact, I think that a ratio of 0.75+ is really nice, but no real CV, because that one literally penalties for winning unbundled giveaways, but just normal SG values. I think I can't see any downside of it, as it just encourages people to give something back for they winnings, not necessary the same amount.
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oh interesting. I see however ratios of 2, 3, 13 and even 40. ^^ Those can only come at a 'cost' of other people being below 1.
While I have no real insight I'd assume non-bundled games get higher point value/cost than something that got (more often) bundled? So giving/winning these non-b. has a bigger effect there too.
I haven't said that the min ratio is bad/a problem. It just sounded you want encourage winning too, and for that a max ratio would be needed/best suitable.
but no real CV, because that one literally penalties for winning unbundled giveaways,
You forget that giving unbundled provides a big increase in the RCV value just the same. It's not having always only a downside..
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Problem is that I can give away 94% discounted game for 100% CV, and 95% discounted game for 15% CV.
If it was more flexible, e.g. based on max discount at given time, I wouldn't be against it at all.
Unbundled giveaway in my group increases the max value you can set on your gib by x2. However, users are unique, one guy prices his Neptunia for max value of 60 on 20, just for "merry christmas" discount, other one gives whole mordor of max value 100 for 0, as a gift to the group.
That's why I said, ratio of in-group currency doesn't say anything.
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Fully agree with the bundle limit and the 2 static value levels not being the optimal way to get it done fairly. (Btw. the practical discount limit is down to 85% US due to RU prices being so low..)
What I notice however is that many GAs end up with 0 or very few entries. Is that the optimal or intended state?
(oh and if I knew it wasn't remotely as rough with the ratio/point competition there than I expected, I might have given more thought about a possible application xD )
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It depends. That's what custom value is for. If you give away 30P bundled giveaway, YOU are the one who set value for that giveaway, and you can set it to anything between 0 and 30. If you want touhou points -> you can set it high e.g. to 10-20. If you want CV (5 entries), you can set it to lower e.g. 3-5 points and see how people join.
Group is supposed to be a nice addition to SG, work on it's own custom rules and reward generous members in virtual group currency that can be spent in future for giveaways you want.
As I noted in the thread, my group is rather unique because we have far more liberal rules, bot which automates everything, and a cool website. People are not joining the group to leech out of it or gain something, we're all having great fun giving away and winning games in a nice small community of friends. At least 50% of the group actively takes part in our group steam chat, which you can join too if you want, as the chat is open for everybody, and we have some frequent guests as well.
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just think of it as a group requirement, and instead of asking to get invited, you just click the link.
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harsher requirements than for COD Ghosts giveway =)
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I dunno, your GA, you decide. Personally I think they're a little bit on the excessive side (even though I passed), but as I said, your GA your rules. Happy belated Christmas & Birthday. :)
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Well it all depends on your 'target audience'. I assume you wanted to reward only the most generous donators with this one, so if that was your intent, I don't see anything wrong with that. Thanks for the giveaways and merry Christmas!
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If he/she wanted to do that why not just make a Level 10+ ga. I seriously hope SG staff will no longer approve of SGtools giveaways.
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Well because having a flat giveaway value is different from having a ratio - without getting my personal view involved in either.
Since SG staff never cared about blacklisting for whatever reason, including ratio, I doubt they'll do anything about this either, since it's just a different way to keep these (subjective) rules more organized.
On a different note, your name looked familiar and I think you must've removed me from a blacklist lately, so thanks for that and merry Christmas to you! :)
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Nah you were never on my blacklist, you must think my name sounds familiar since we traded some time ago ;)
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SG staff has nothing to say. This is third-party system which just reveals a giveaway link after a guy meets some requirements. You could as well hire human who would do the same, just less efficient. It's the same story we had with previous touhou event, we have links, and we give them to people we want, SG has nothing to do with it, this is what invite only giveaway means. I give you invite to join, not everyone.
P.S. I don't like sgtools giveaways either.
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Minimum ratio using Real Value of gifts Sent/Won on Steamgifts: 2
Mine was 1.71 or something :(
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Good visual novel, but with a pretty complicated stat raising aspect :D. Good luck everyone!
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Awww a wishlist game but I don't get through the RAW 3-1 requirement since I win too many bundle games on here :-P
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Thank you again for this giveaway and Happy Birthday! ^ ^
Concerning the SGT giveaways I like them because they have a lot of potential and they are imhpo not more intrusive and/or annoying and/or harder than some of the puzzle giveaways I've seen here and anyway it's up to the gifters to set or use them or not.
Thallassa; the reqs are what the reqs are because it's your giveaway so you can set them at your leisure.
Btw your nick reminds me of a very beautiful and informative French TV documentary series about the sea and the sea life. ^ ^
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Some weird site i don't use so pass.
Happy Birthday tho.
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those tools are good only for people who don't win anything. having level 9 and thousands of sent gifts means nothing if you have a lot of wins as well. i fail these all the time
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It's more what you won against what you gave (as a hint) ;-)
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Happy Birthday and Happy New Year! 3:*>
I passed, but didn't enter (because of my backlog =l )
I used SGTools once or twice, but I didn't feel the need to use is again. Don't know if the requirements are too high - it depends on the audience you were trying to give access to =)
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I like it. I don't like when rulebreakers win my GAs so I made 2 trains with "no unactivated games" / "no multiple wins" rules. I was reporting users like this either way.
But in my recent train I set different rule - no more than 600 CV in RAW value won. I think game will go to someone who didn't win "too much" and I don't intend to check winners on unactivated games / multiple wins. So it will go along with my idea during making this train - give to someone during holidays who so far haven't won enormous amount of games.
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damn so close, 2.86/3 :O
also, happy bday :3
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I like that sgtools gives options to giveaway creators. I don't really see it that much different from groups that have certain rules for joining and being a member of it. Sgtools just does it withouth the hassle of needing to join the groups.
I did pass the check by the way, but didn't enter. Too many games to play still, so I'll skip giveaways even if it's an interesting looking one. Anyway, happy birthday!
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Happy belated birthday and happy new year to you as well! :D
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...And then I made this:
http://www.sgtools.info/giveaways/4fb20466-abc3-11e5-b2c0-0663045ed9e8
Sorry level 3+.
Take this as a birthday giveaway from me (it's non-bundled), as I didn't have the time to make a thread when it was due, thanks to being very busy with university (which should now be finished if all goes well). Anyway, happy new year to all of steamgifts!
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