I'm new to it, and still trying to sort it all out. One of the main currencies is keys. Keys, afaik, can only be bought from the Mann store. Who are the people buying the keys and putting them into circulation? I see people selling them in bulk for ~$1.30 or whatever. Are they able to buy them at a slightly lower price from the Mann store because of their region?

And who are the end users of the keys? Are there people that use all the keys unlocking crates they've hoarded hoping to unlock that rare weapon, and when they do, it's value makes up for the other dozens of keys they used getting regular weapons?

12 years ago*

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Basically people who are selling the keys for really low, got them basically for free by trading metal for those keys. Metal that they made by scrapping common weapons in the weekly drops.
There are people that get the keys to open common boxes, some of them get cheap keys to trade for games and other stuff.

2 weapons = 1 scrap
3 scrap = 1 reclaimed
3 reclaimed = 1 refined
3 refined (generally) = 1 key

If you see someone asking say 1.55 ref for something they want...
1 refined (1), 1 reclaimed (.33), and 2 scrap (.22)

And no I have not put a single dime into the game, but I have gotten lots of stuff. My first week playing, I lucked into getting a salvaged box. It was going for 6 keys at the time. Now it can be traded for like 15 to 20 keys or something like that.

12 years ago
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I know the metal values and such.

Basically people who are selling the keys for really low, got them basically for free by trading metal for those keys.

But WHO bought those keys from the store? Who is paying the real dollars? And how are they profiting?

12 years ago
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More then likely kids or people who get offered really good deals on stuff like games or hats or what ever.

If you could buy a 30 to 50 dollar game you really really wanted, for the price of 2 keys, wouldn't you go and buy 2 keys? Or if there was a weapon or hat in TF2 that you really wanted (and this was before the market) and people only wanted keys for it, wouldn't you pick up the keys to trade for them?

But as mentioned, other places can get keys far cheaper then us, which I personally don't think is fair. If they can get them for like 1/3 of what we are paying, then they should not be able to trade them out of their region.

But they can so thats where I'm sure a large chunk come from.

Edit
Also remember there are lots of parents out there who will give their kids anything they want. "Daddy, I need 10 of these keys cause there is a hat I want that I can't get any other way" "ok here ya go, now leave me alone"

12 years ago
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Pretty much this.

And some unusual hats are crazy amounts of money worth.

12 years ago
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You're honestly saying that a significant amount of keys are sourced from spoiled children? LOL much?

11 years ago
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Ignorants. I bought 2 keys at 2.50 when I had a surplus of money and barely had played TF2.

12 years ago
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You can get keys for really cheap... on a site :)

12 years ago
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Yes, I know. But someone had to buy them from the store initially. And my thought was there are some individuals doing this in bulk and somehow profiting from it.

Most likely the bulk keys are from stolen CC as suggested above. Kind of sad when you think about it, the whole economy built on stolen money.

12 years ago
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lol it's not based on stolen money. Most people aren't buying them for profit. They're buying them and taking a loss. Certain items you cannot buy in the store. For instance bills and buds. So a new player wants a bills hat. He'll buy keys from the store and trade them for a bills.

There are certain contributors making six figures a year from sales from their submitted items. There are plenty of people spending money on it http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/01/09/tales-from-the-steam-workshop-we-talk-to-modelers-making-six-figure-sums/

12 years ago
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Heh, tons of economies are build on stolen money - well, maybe not "stolen" stolen, but "pillaged during war" stolen.

12 years ago
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Eastern Europe and Western Asia can obtain TF2 items for a significantly cheaper price (especially Russia), if I recall correctly.

12 years ago
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Pretty sure keys in Russia at 75 rub which is $2.48 USD, no discount there.

12 years ago
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I guess I am mistaken then, I'm just aware that they tend to be the cheapest on the trade sites that I frequent.

12 years ago
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The games they trade are discounted, the keys are not.

12 years ago
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Russians with stolen credit cards bring a lot of the keys into the market and sell them for under cost.

There are people who use the keys to gamble as certain crates can give items worth many keys in value. Other people use unusual hats as something to invest in as they're usually $30+ and then they just try to flip it for more. If you have any type of day job you'll make way more with your time than either of these options.

12 years ago
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Russians with stolen credit cards bring a lot of the keys into the market and sell them for under cost.

If that's the case, wouldn't keys be disappearing from people's inventories all the time as they were discovered to be fraudulently purchased?

12 years ago
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You'd have to ask Steam how they handle the situation.

Proof

12 years ago
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Thats not proof of anything. From the get go, the OP already concluded that all of them are scammers and bought keys with stolen credit cards, with out providing actual proof to support his claims. Yes, it seems fishy, but hardly solid.

12 years ago
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True its not solid, but conclusively showing 1000$s of keys going into to the market from the same people consistently, is fishy as hell.

12 years ago
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Agreed, fishy, but not conclusive. For all we know, it could be rich kids that just like to trade, or "washing" of gift cards. But again, dodgy as hell.

12 years ago
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Can you suggest any other reason you'd spend $2.50 per key, then trade 28-30 keys ($70-$75) for a bud and then turn around and sell the bud for $23 right away other than money laundering? If it were just a few I would believe the gift card, but the post shows thousands of keys. 5000*2.50 = $12,500, that'd be some pretty rich kids. :p

If this were a court room, you're right it wouldn't be enough proof, but with the facts and proof that has been brought up, I can't think of many other reasons for their actions.

12 years ago
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No i cant, and to be honest, Id typically jump on the bandwagon and start labeling people, but after being accused of several things I have since decided its best to wait till there is actual proof or evidence. Like I said though, it is certainly fishy. The thread you posted to assumed cc theft/fraud, however that wouldnt make a lot of sense because valve tracks all of that. HOWEVER, laundering doesnt make all that much more sense because if you are making bank in russia, its fairly easy to launder money with out the hit. ALTHOUGH, it could be a younger gen/small time drug ring that rakes in a few k a week and then drops it and "washes it". Just seems like a lot of work to me.

12 years ago
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Also, why "russians"? There are stolen credit cards everywhere... :s

12 years ago
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Because they are russians, and they hate everything. Ask a russian.

12 years ago
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True. We do hate everything.

11 years ago
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The link I posted three hours ago shows that there was a group who was doing it large scale and selling them for ruble which is the currency in Russia.

12 years ago
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IDK, but I just sold 6 keys that I got from a trade on the community market @ $2 (+$0.30 valve tax) a pop, so whoever it is: thank you

12 years ago
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You could have gotten 2.49 easily from them (with fees, so your profit would be 2.20~)

12 years ago
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possibly, but this was faster. And honestly $0.20 each isn't worth the wait to me.

12 years ago
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Keys are used as a common currency in trades. Traded for games/game keys/ services/ and other game items like Dota 2 and TF2 items including weapons and hats.

12 years ago
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I know that, that's not what I asked at all.

12 years ago
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You asked why do people sell keys for less then their worth or cash value as dictated by Valve. Because people buy x game on sale or get x item in a game, trade them for a key/s and then sell the keys for cash. Not that complicated.

Who buys keys-> People that 1.) Play TF2, "hardcore". MoneyHypeMike used 200 keys a few months ago to open crates. 2.) Other users buy keys and trade them for games they want. Then those users trade them for other games and so on. If I buy say Bioshock infinity for 30 dollars from a website, and trade them for 40-50 dollars in keys, I now have a 10-20 dollar margin to move in. I then use these keys as trade fodder for tradeables that others got on sale and so on.

Now follow the chain as far as 20+ trades and you end up with people that get keys well below stock price.

12 years ago
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You can take it as an investing or to buy other games for a cheaper price.

I can make $30-$60 daily trading items in tf2, so it's not a bad invest if you got time to trade.

12 years ago
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I'm guilty of dumping $50 for a polycount pack way back when, about $100 total into tf2 back when I played it a lot.
I don't really regret it since I bad my fun with friends and whatnot, but those $100 could have gone a long way. xP

12 years ago
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I found an old thread that explains the economics behind it. Prices are different, and the Community Market didn't exist then, but it gives you a general idea.

12 years ago
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f.e. if people buy games worth 10€ with 75% sale on it, it cost 2,50€ for them, 3 weeks later they sell it for 4 keys to someone else, this guy only paid 8€(mostly even cheaper, steammarket price for keys are around 1,75-->41,75=7 euro) they will spare some money and those "games on sale buyers" sell those keys for 1,3€ each again--->1,34=5,20, so they will also make some profit. russian guys can sell games way cheaper than western EU guys, cause their store price is lower than the ones from US or EU

12 years ago
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A fairly big portion of the keys in circulation comes from people with stolen credit card information that buy a bunch of keys, trade those keys for buds and then sell those buds for money.

And no Valve either doesn't care or has decided that removing items that can be traced to a fraudulent purchase would cost them too many TF2 players.

12 years ago
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Yes, I remember reading some fascinating things from people who have done the detective-work, and it does appear to be professional thieves at work... :(

And I suspect the people at Valve care, but like you said, how could they remove the stolen keys from circulation without making a lot of innocent people very unhappy? Glad I don't have to find the solution, it's too difficult for me... :)

12 years ago
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Who buys them? - Basically anybody who needs to rise capital in tf2. You can go and buy any item or even a game with it.

Why is the market value lower? - It's not because of cheaper regions, well, atleast not directly. The way of getting a key for a lower price is when you buy a game on Steam and then you sell it on the market for tf2 keys. You can lower the price of keys by 20-40% if you use this way. And the "russian effect" works here too. You cannot buy tf2 keys from Valve for a lower price in different regions, but you can buy the games cheaper. That's why poeple from these regions usually resell games, they can get a key for $0.8-$1 by this way. They usually sell them on open markets for the mentioned price $1.3 (it's probably a bit higher now, the value of keys has been rising pretty quickly recently, I'd say they're more like $1.5-$1.8 now). Or they sell them on the Steam market more often now, it's more comfortable way for both parties.

Why are they keys so popular? - The tf2 key is the most liquid item, you can buy with it basically anything or you can't sell it quicky for a good price anytime. They hold the value well too, they went up by 30 % in the last 1-2 months! It must sucks for those people that held capital in metal...

Who are the end users of the keys? - Yep, those guys that open crates. It's just another lottery. You can't usually make a profit with most of the crates, and if you can, they're quite rare and expensive (eg. crate 19, or the salvaged series). But there's always a 1 % chance of getting an usual hat. And that's the jackpot! An unsual hat can be worth from $30 up to $1200.

12 years ago
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I always assumed it was people with alt accounts who bought 2 keys to make premium with their $5 in steam wallet, and then took a slight hit in trade.

12 years ago
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I'm fairly sure that keys in the russian store are or at least used to be $1.

12 years ago
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They have always been the same price across the board.

12 years ago
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unlock a rare weapon? what? UNLOCK AN UNUSUALLLLLL obviously.
there are plenty of people who buy them

12 years ago
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There are some reasons why keys were cheap before (the era they were 2 refined at most) take it like it was a huge black market of items. You could get unlimited items via idling with no cap before tf2 went f2p(cap 12 items maximum per week). Mostly by russians mafia :D

After that keys price a little bit at were 2.66 max for a year then unusual halloween themed were introduced in 2011 and since those have 1% to get in limited time and crates,specially expensive. In 2012 that totally broke keys marketing since everyone want those unusual that are valued hundred of dollars, key hoarding before halloween was the main idea for the event and there was a huge demand for keys.

And it got better with the introduction with the marketplace(sarcasm) now they are reaching 4 refs each key and thats why those are being sold for 2 dollars each(and people buy those).

Its too damn easy to get extra metal to buy keys with several accounts and guess what, russians have the ability to deposit any amount of money in their steam wallet, the cheapest item in mann co store is 50 cents. Russians can make 10 idle accounts with 5 dollars unlike the rest of the countries are obliged to deposit 5 dollars minimum per account.

TL DR version = RUSSIANS
and TF2 is srs bsns

12 years ago
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So...does anyone actually use the keys to open crates?

11 years ago
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some rich folks do

11 years ago
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11 years ago
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Necromancer.

11 years ago
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Its more serious then that, I have seen things, things I cannot unsee.

11 years ago
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Wailord and Skitty?

11 years ago
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Interesting bump. I actually bought 4 Robokeys to open the Robocrates as soon as they came out. Never opened a crate before.

I got 4 hats... traded them ASAP cause people were paying more in the first hours they came out. Ended up getting 3 keys and 4 refined. So I lost a little, but not bad.

11 years ago
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Yes because some hats are worth a lot. It's a risk game.

11 years ago
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Especially if you get an unusual.

11 years ago
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I'm so glad I'm not involved with the TF2 economy.

11 years ago
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word

11 years ago
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Normally people don't use the keys, they just keep em for trading for games or they trade it on for a higher price than they got them

11 years ago
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^

11 years ago
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Closed 11 years ago by bobofatt.