NPException
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2 days ago
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edited 2 days ago
That's really bad. I have a huge collection of unredeemed games dating back even to the early Humble Monthly bundles, and even earlier indie bundles. As I tend to redeem a game only once I actually intend to start playing it.
[EDIT] Skimmed through this years bundles. More games with expiry dates (not sure if they have been there before):
Bundle of February 2023
Fallout 76 (expires February 29th, 2024)
Fallout 1 (expires March 5th, 2024)
Bundle of June 2022
Star Wars Squadrons (already expired January 13th, 2023)
Bundle of May 2022
Command & Conquer Remastered Edition (already expired June 7th, 2023)
Bundle of March 2022
Mass Effect Legendary Edition (already expired March 1st, 2023)
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The Fallout games already had expiration dates.
[EDIT:] And now I recall that Squadrons and Command & Conquer Remastered were redeemable on Origin, not Steam, and had expiration dates as well. So that's all of them accounted for with expiration dates announced in advance.
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so just to be clear, is the expiration for revealing the key from hb, or actually activating it on steam (or elsewhere)?
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are they all like that? according to the image in jbondguy007's post below, hb says "if you haven't already done so, reveal your key today so you don't miss out on your game. if you already revealed your key, you can disregard this notification." that seems to imply (at least for deathloop) that as long as the key has been revealed, it won't expire.
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They only sent one, for Deathloop, after people started noticing. And it's very new. It wasn't there two weeks ago, and certainly not when purchased.
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Thanks for the warning. No message here, it probably relates to adding the key to my list rather than trusting them to give me the keys I paid for when I want them later.
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EDIT: False alarm. Looks like I paused several time around early 2021.
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This is bad news for me. I never reveal any keys I haven't used yet, and have many from before June 2021. I just tried to reveal one from April 2021, and it just spins when trying to reveal the key. I haven't, as of yet, gotten the error message you posted though.
Edit: I did successfully reveal a key from January 2021
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This really concerns me, I have many unrevealed keys that are older than 2021. I've been meaning to go through them and see what I want / don't want, so I guess I better get to it!
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Are you sure you had purchased these bundles? Bundles you've skipped will display this message.
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Makes sense. I'm surprised this isn't more widely adopted. Logically, people are only holding on to them that long if they intend to trade them, which Humble is notably opposed to despite its impact not really being any different than gifting, which they do support. They had to back off of blanket bans based on the assumption of trading, due to its being inherently illegal to remove people's access to their purchases, but assigning expiration dates with the help of the game publishers is a way to circumvent that.
Fortunately for our members who might be traders but also gift games here and in theory have friends who might be interested in playing said games as well, it shouldn't have any real impact on purchasers. ;)
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The current "issue" that is retroactive. They only informed the players about one of the three games expiring because of a new deadline. Though that's the earliest expiring one, maybe they'll send an email when it's ~2 months left for Doom E and Ghostwire too.
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That does still give you plenty of time to redeem or gift them. It's only an issue if you don't really have plans to use them, but then that also negates any issue as well.
Personally, I've been expecting this to be a policy adopted by key sellers for a while now. I'm surprised it's taken so long to begin to implement it.
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It breaks likely multiple laws in multiple countries. It sure does in EU. They should not change the rules about something that's purchase already happened.
If you read what I wrote, I did not criticize the act of using deadlines itself. I think it's fine, but they should be clear and upfront about it, like they did with the origin keys, or the Fallout 76 + Fallout 1 keys. Or the Friend vs Friend from current monthly. That is still against EU laws (and possibly others), but at least it's not snuck in later... and if they give you enough time, it's not really a problem from the point of the average person.
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I hear you, but it's still a semantic argument since you still have plenty of time to redeem the key.
I would be interested in reading the specific laws detailing how it's illegal though, based on how it's being implemented, and would also be interested in reading about who actually enacted the expiration dates (Humble or the game's publisher or both).
Anyway, expiration dates are really the only way to combat "grey" market key sellers/resellers, so as mentioned, I would expect this to become commonplace if Humble, Valve, Ubi, Beth/M$ and so on are serious about it.
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I don't trade, but I too don't reveal my keys until I want to activate them, simply because it's more convenient to look at my purchases and at a glance, know that a reveal key was activated if it was revealed, and otherwise it is not. I only activate a small fraction of my keys to my own account, leaving the rest unrevealed as options for giveaways, or gifting to someone who might happen to want a game which I have (not trading, just random gifting).
I must have like 2 years worth of Choice bundles with mostly all unrevealed keys, and like I said, I'm not a trader. I don't think it's fair to assume anyone who doesn't activate keys immediately are traders, and inconvenience them for it in an attempt to hurt traders (which, quite honestly, I don't think is right either).
Like Adam pointed out, I think this wouldn't be such an issue if they were clear and upfront about it before you buy the bundle that the keys will expire. Then, I would simply avoid these bundles like the plague, because this is terrible practice that is anti-consumer, imo. And then I'd be curious to see how many sales they lose due to this new rule.
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While I agree that their attempts to mess with traders and assuming you're a trader in general is kinda pointless and definitely unfair, that IS definitely the situation.
Question: why wait years to redeem your keys? Whether yourself or for gifting.
This is just anecdotal, but previous to closing my original SG account, I cleared my keys every holiday season via giveaways here and through direct gifting friends. It feels like there has been ample opportunity to use said keys.
Now....what should happen is that any keys not honored should be refunded. That would probably be where there would be actual, demonstrable legal standing as the consumer.
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Not exactly, Humble don't have the ability to generate keys. They have to request them from the publisher / developer which can take time (bureaucracy) or not be possible if the publisher / developer no longer exists.
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Humble has screwed over people in the past that waited to reveal their keys, since then I have always revealed all keys from Humble as soon as I buy the bundle, even if I am not going to activate it anytime soon. That way I can make sure they assign me a key and then it should never expire.
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They are just stopping you from requesting a key when you still have the option to request a key or generate a gift link. As long as you request a key and are assigned one, the key should work forever.
Edit: This may not be true. I didn't think Humble had the ability to see what keys have been used and figured this was the same as the free game promotions in the past where the keys still worked after the date they said they had to be activated by, but in this situation, it looks like the developer/publisher may be disabling the unused keys.
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not according the the email for humble the keys will no longer be any good.
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I didn't think Humble had the ability to do that, but is this situation, it looks like it might be the developer/publisher that generated the keys who is revoking them. Maybe Steam gives them the ability to disable any unused keys or set an expiration date on activating them.
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actualy according to the email humble sent it is saying the 'keys" are expiring on that date. You might want to look at that email again.
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I didn't think they had the ability to do that. Can they even see if a key has been used or not? I thought if you have a problem with a key they have to revoke it through Steam and provide you with another because they just get provided keys and can't see anything more about them.
Is this not a Humble thing? Is the developer/publisher revoking unused keys? Maybe they have the ability to see if keys they generated have been used or they can set an activation expiration when they generate the key. Or maybe Steam give you the option to disable any unused keys from batches of keys you created.
The first 2 games in the email look like they are showing the game key and saying that you have to redeem it, so maybe they are going to somehow disable the unused keys. The email for Deathloop specifically says "reveal your key", "If you have already revealed your key, you can disregard this notification". For Deathloop it sounds like they just want you to reveal a key and they don't care if you use it or not, you will just lose the ability to request a key after that date.
Is this the same as previous Humble free game giveaways where they said that the game had to be activated by a certain date? I still have some keys from 2017 that I already owned or didn't want and was too lazy to do anything with. I think they will probably still work, but I don't know if that is the same as this.
Edit: I wonder if these expiration dates were originally stated on the store page when the bundles were purchased. If not, it sounds like someone deserves a class action lawsuit. I can't stand how we used to own things we paid for and now with everything becoming digital, consumers are getting screwed and companies just take things away that we paid for. Every time something like this happens, it is showing consumers that paying for digital things is not safe because those things can be taken away from you at any time. As time goes on, more and more people will resort to obtaining digital items without paying and this is the fault of these companies.
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I can't stand how we used to own things we paid for and now with everything becoming digital, consumers are getting screwed and companies just take things away that we paid for. Every time something like this happens, it is showing consumers that paying for digital things is not safe because those things can be taken away from you at any time.
My feelings years ago when I first started using Steam.
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As far as I am concerned, I purchased the game and I own a copy to play. If it is taken away from me, I am not paying for it again, but I am still going to play it. That is the way it has to be or else nobody is going to pay for anything digital. Why would we pay money for something that we know can be taken away at any time? That is gambling and I don't like to gamble.
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There is an option to revoke keys by devs. Like the last Jingle Jam bundle. Dark Nights with Poe and Munro gave a normal store sub and they were able to revoke all unused ones...So it is simple for them. They can revoke the used one too, if they suspect fraud with them. As the rest, well you don't buy a copy of the game you buy the licence to play that that game when you buy it.
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I don't see the difference between buying the game and buying a license to play it. I should still own that license forever because I didn't pay to rent the license for a certain time period. I should also be able to resell that license to someone else when I am done with it just like I can resell anything else. I should own that license and it is mine to do what I want with it. Just like a public library can buy licenses for digital things and then let people borrow them the same way they do with physical things. They operate under the same laws we do.
The only reason this is being allowed to happen is because it has not happened on a wide scale yet. Once something major happens and a lot of consumers lose a lot of things they paid for, something will change. Either laws will be put into place to protect consumers rights to own digital items or nobody will trust the system anymore and a very large number of people will resort to obtaining what they want in an illegal way where they don't need to worry about losing it. If Steam failed and I lost all my games, I would most likely never pay for a digital item again from anywhere and I suspect a lot of people would feel the same and go the same route. If consumers don't have confidence in the system, the system will fail.
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Agree with you pretty much 100%, ever since the subtle changes in EULAs around the mid 00's I feel that consumers have been on a slippery slope to where we've reached now, with licensing agreements even violating the laws of countries that are supposed to protect consumers from having their legal rights abrogated.
Sadly it seems like either regulators view it as either a niche area (debatable considering the amount of money the gaming market controls now) or dump it in the too hard basket along with the rest of digital consumer regulation. I really want to believe in your second paragraph but I know too well how money talks and politicians are spineless.
I had hoped the EU would have turned its gaze towards it by now, or even my own country's (Australia) consumer watchdog (which had a decent sized role in forcing Steam to provide a refund policy in the first place) but it seems like nothing is really going to change, even if a mass-theft event occurs. There's my happy thought for the evening.
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+1, very much my feelings about Steam from the very start. Spent well over 10 years avoiding it and now regard it as a necessary evil at best. Maybe it's because I'm old .....of a certain age but the idea of never truly owning the things I buy has never sat well with me. It's kinda why I hold on to most of my retail games, even if they are getting harder to run out-of-the-box.
Now this policy seems to push things even further. Fine, it's the devs games and the store's sandbox but it's my money damn it (which incidentally I'm not allowed to put conditions on when buying a product). Can you imagine if this policy applied in the real world!?
Better read that book you bought on a whim within a year mate or it turns to dust on the expiry date.
That nice rice cooker you got as a gift? Well you didn't use it before the expiry date so I'm afraid it disassembled itself into useless components.
That nice outfit you bought for a special event that got cancelled during COVID and has been sitting in your wardrobe ever since? Well it had a strict expiry date so.....well... that guy in the Emperor's New Clothes got by ok....oh wait....
Sorry if it seems like an overreaction (it likely is, I'm a bit cranky tonight)) and though it doesn't affect me as I don't hold on to keys too long, it still annoys me that more and more seemingly basic consumer rights are being subverted (if not being outright demolished) so that certain people can make a few bucks more. At least GOG hasn't turned evil yet, that's my only refuge really.
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I have read it and I have to say I'm somewhat nonplussed but not surprised that that kind of reasoning is trying to wiggle its way through to the mainstream. This is something I suspect alot of publishers in the gaming world (particularly the massive conglomerate ones) would very much like to gain traction. And I fear that without alot of pushback they could possibly get what they want one day, certainly GTA 6 is probably one of the few games whose publisher could even float the idea and possibly get away with it.
I'm not indifferent to the plight of many smaller devs who put their sweat and tears and often life savings into making a game and ultimately not be as rewarded as the latest cookie cutter entry in insert-game-franchise-with-massive-budget here. And I can't deny that personally there have been a few games for me that I've gotten much more entertainment than the amount I paid and some where I didn't pay enough.
(Please forgive me ghosts of Irrational Games/Looking Glass for not buying System Shock 2 till it ended up in the bargain bin 9 months after its release 😭, if I'd known how much I'd have loved it I would have probably bought it full price)
That said there have also been some stinker games/books/movies that at the end left me feeling that the exchange of payment for those entertainment pieces should have probably gone in my direction...
But it's not really how it works and I feel it would only be a surefire way to decimate the gaming market even more in terms of quality or original releases. I feel mobile gaming has a big part in this latest subtle push, along with the increasing (and ever more transparent) greed of microtransactions in gaming in general. When you see the money that changes hands in those games, even excluding the cashed up whales, often to the tune of tens of millions or more, well its no surprise that the often exceedingly well paid publisher execs eyes light up with greed.
Though I can't help but feel that in this case, while I said GTA could be the only game to get away with it right now, the fact that Rockstar and Take Two have made an absolute fortune from GTA games and continue to make substantial amounts of money from GTA Online, it kind makes them an inefficient messenger for this kind of idea; they aren't exactly short a quid.
Edited for typo.
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The dress example, I think it would be more like, you bought this nice outfit but never picked it up from the store, and eventually, the store wasn't willing to store it for you any longer. But, they do probably refund your purchase, possibly with a restock fee taken first. Which is probably the direction people should be going with expired or out of stock keys. It's fine, but refund that part of the purchase.
The rice cooker example though: warranties do typically have an expiration date. If it breaks afterwards, it's on the buyer.
You buy a book, don't get around to reading it, and in the meantime, it's suffers water damage, starts to mold, and is unreadable. Or mice eat chunks of it.
Most things do actually have either a shelf life, conditions that can destroy them before or after or while they're used, and/or limited warranties on the purchases.
I do agree that DRM still sucks though lol. At the very least, you should be able to download a non tethered game. Although even then, if Valve's servers shut down, you'd be relegated to what you were able to keep in intact storage, and maintain said storage in perpetuity.
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You raise important considerations and qualifications about he examples I posited (despite venturing just a bit towards straw clutching territory 🤔) bit I still feel the underlying point remains the same. That for completely arbitrary reasons people could be denied the product that they paid for.
Don't read a book, fine, let it be a monument to all the books you've never read. Don't like rice, fine, let the box be a nice seat for your cat. Don't want to immediately redeem a game key purchase, instead choosing to print it out, frame it and hang it in your bathroom, that's all good. (Well maybe not the last part...)
But to deny even the most basic access to non-temporally bound purchases of any variety because of an arbitrary and non-debatable imposition of an expiry date just pushes the boat too far out for me. Even more so when you consider the nature of digital purchases like game keys, which unless they're revoked by devs can just in theory continue to exist in the digital ether forever.
(At least I hope, I've got some shrink-wrapped unopened games I've picked up at book fairs in long term storage till I get a proper PC; a few years old maybe but unadulterated and as-new. I admit I've had cause to wonder if they'll still work when I eventually install them 😬)
Such a policy wouldn't be accepted by most consumers in the real world but seems acceptable practice for digital purchases. I agree with you about having a non tethered game copy, it's why I prefer GOG as a storefront. I've also got half a 6TB drive full of GOG installers and ISOs of a lot of my retail games (which in my country I'm entitled to make for backup/archival purposes).
I don't think alot of people realise the caveats to digital ownership, especially on a platform like Steam. Not only don't you truly own your copy of the game/license, you only get to enjoy it as long as Steam exists and only as long a developer decides to let you play it and (in something which I've always felt should be something more controversial and worthy of regulation IMO) only as long as Valve/Steam as a company/platform allows you to use it.
(I doubt most would argue against the idea that many who get their Steam accounts closed are up to no good but does it give a company like Valve the right to deny them access to their legitimate purchases that they've made over the years? Say if you got banned from a book shop for some reason; does it give them the right to come to your home and take away or deny you access to all the books you ever purchased from them?)
And now you've got a storefront (with developer support presumably) telling paying consumers you'll use the product according to our timetable not yours. It just feels like an unnecessarily anti-consumer step, regardless of how few people it might impact.
Apologies for the long rant reply, it's just the more I think about this the more it irks me; unless these companies start paying me I am getting tired of being subtly but continually boxed in with their policies when I'm the one forking over money to them.
Edited for tidiness & typo.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/humblebundles/comments/17u8zt6/humble_adding_expiration_dates_without_notice/
The Games so far are:
Doom Eternal (January 31, 2024)
Ghost Wire Tokyo (June 30, 2024)
Deathloop (January 2024)
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