Blacklisted should be from both sides ?
I have been blacklisted by 950ppl, but i know only about +200ppl.
:D.
I don't enter giveaways of those people that are in my BL anyways.
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Unfortunately not everyone has those ethics and is that honest and fair because I have had at least a half a dozen of users that entered giveaways of mine (Public, Group and SGTools giveaways) that have or had me blacklisted and knowing this still entered them.
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It's not always about ethics. How are you going to remember everyone you blacklisted or not before entering a GA?
You may not remember you blacklisted someone or why.
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If its very important to you to remember you can use script wich allow you to make a label near usernames
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How are you going to remember everyone you blacklisted or not before entering a GA?
You may not remember you blacklisted someone or why.
For me personally this was easy as I have an Excel list that contains the blacklist data. So with just opening that list and Control + F and writing the giveaway creator his\her name in the search field so I know straight of the bat if I would enter a giveaway from someone I blacklisted and when it was positive I didn't enter that giveaway.
At it's zenith I had 140 users on my blacklist but I recently cleaned my blacklist out (there were about 30 permanent suspended users in there) and my blacklist is now at 42 users that have me also blacklisted. This (42 mutual blacklists) makes it now even easier for me to not enter any (kind) of giveaways from users that have me blacklisted.
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I have a whopping 5 people that have me blacklisted, don't even know who, but according to the stats. How did you make it to 42? :P
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The answer is already in there: most are mutual blacklists aka returning the favor. :-)
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Does the stats page shows who has blacklisted you? Wouldn't that just lead to endless whining?
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According to my tags on you, I looked you up, couldn't figure out why you were blacklisted, noted no issues with you within the past few months, was going to remove you, saw I was blacklisted, and assumed we'd had a mutual problem with each other prior to my installation of SG++'s tagging system.
Given that I don't intentionally enter blacklisted user's giveaways to begin with [exception: People I know are blacklisted for (eg, having a poor ratio and having won from me before), who then get removed from BL if I win], in my circumstance your action was probably an unfortunate one [though given our respective giveaway outputs, far more so for me, I suppose :P].
I'd say I don't begrudge you the inclusion, given that you couldn't assume a majority of your blacklisted users would behave similarly, but seeing as I don't grasp [or utilize] the concept of "revenge-blacklists", I can't say I understand your perspective.
Well, as is, I'd hate to ruin your perfect 42 blacklists..
Of course, you say "most", so if you do have a specific problem with me, do let me know (please, no drama-inducing specifics!) so I can update my tags [and not bother you with the topic again in the future]. :)
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I have it that you blacklisted me and I returned it however what ever the pro and cons are of mutual blacklisting for me personally the same goes for removing blacklists. As I have done in the past (concerning mutual un-blacklisting) I will do again. I have had giveaway winners that were un-blacklisted by me and won from me and vice versa. Also that perfect score can get really more perfect when it goes done more. In any case you're not longer on it and what you do is up to you. :-)
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Space dolphins whispered in his ear: "So long, here are the people who have you blacklisted, and thanks for all the fish!"
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Sorry to Hijack your comment ... but how can you find out How many ppl blacklisted you :?
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After clicking the link I now wish I hadn't. The curiosity over why few people have me on their blacklist will eat me alive... Specially since it looks like all the blacklist adds came on the same day in February! Probably just glitching, I can't figure out a reason why they'd all happen in the same day and so late in my time here.
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Hi konrads,this was already repeatedly suggested (nothing changed)
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do you know that spam is not allowed ? sgtools is still spywaretool. dont use / enter links/
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Don't worry about it. It's neither spam nor spyware.
He's blaming sgt for that every day all day long - probably because of being blocked from it for some reason :) Not sure if he even already told so before.
He might consider your links (ads) as spam as well ;)
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SGTools is not spyware, but in this case konrads6 actually has a point about spam. Dragomania was suspended for posting his giveaway links in multiple threads once, if I'm not mistaken.
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let's hope when more users start using this "no join just thank you and post my signature" bump method their opinion changes
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yes shtools is spyware. you shouldn't enter sgtools.info url.
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Can you explain how it is spyware?
I'm quite curious as to how you get to this conclusion.
Here's a definition of spyware btw, link is http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/definition/spyware
"Spyware is any technology that aids in gathering information about a person or organization without their knowledge. On the Internet (where it is sometimes called a spybot or tracking software), spyware is programming that is put in someone's computer to secretly gather information about the user and relay it to advertisers or other interested parties. Spyware can get in a computer as a software virus or as the result of installing a new program."
So do enlighten us please.
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wow,good to know but with "Source please" was meant:
Dragomania was suspended for posting his giveaway links in multiple threads once, if I'm not mistaken.
Quote from "Doshmaku"
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So,most users here at sg are quickly annoyed if someone use "their" threads for "self promotion" various giveaway links ?
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dunno about "users here at sg"
you post a "thanks" in giveaway comments, threads - one or two words, a smiley... + 3 more line of "good advertising"
let's say every third user here begins with this. thanking like you, lvl 6 maxed giveaways, lvl 7 giveaways etc - you are lvl10 - you cannot join so your thanking is nothing but spam*.. if you are allowed to posting this - I think most of us have favourite threads. of course good threads.
( in the other case: every time I checked your comment I never saw an entry from you. and ofc a thanks not means that you must enter but in this case the motivation seems very different)
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Would phrases like this " I can't join your giveaway but thanks anyway" or "Only Level x (can't enter) but thanks..." fall into the same category (spam) ?
...and what's the point adding gif files to almost every forum post ? Unnecessary Gifs = Spam but nobody complains ?
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Then I was mistaken.
EDIT: nvm, I think I found it.
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Sorry, but how should "ordinary" users know the real reason for a suspension ? Assumptions,speculation... Miss Mullins is now official sg support member ?
Another example where people enjoy being manipulated :)
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I was going merely by your opening post, I don't even know the particular case MuIIins mentioned.
I 've got a suspension on Steamgifts today (spam).I have asked a support member to suspend my account permanently.I will also leave this group again to avoid more damage.Please excuse any inconvenience.
I admit you didn't mention links, so it's possible that's not what you were spamming.
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manipulated?
you said the reason yourself in that group thread... don't blame me.
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Quote Mullins:
"....come on, you spammed like crazy because someone didn't accept your gift 12 hours after you sent it..."
You wrote this as if you already knew the reason for the suspension but in fact it's just another assumption/suspicion/rumor....
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Hmm nah, bad idea.
If blacklisting were mutual, you could just go to your blacklist and see who blacklisted you by who you had blacklisted back automatically.
It would lead to too much drama on the forums.
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sg team should add for example icon or other mark after login that will give you information who blacklisted you (on forum for example or when we enter person profile page).
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I actually kind of agree with him. (yes I'm surprised too) It doesn't need to put it automaticly in each others BL, just give a message or so saying that you BL'ed the creator and thus are not able to join.
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I don't really care if someone who's blacklisted me wins a GA of mine shrug
As long as they want the game, activate it, and mark it as received, I couldn't possibly care less. :X
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Ok, good point! Then, what if rerolls were valid if the creator is on winner's blacklist? I think that would solve the problem.
As a matter of fact, I don't really care about this subject, just saw your comment and wanted to contribute to the thread.
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I don't really see why that should be a problem.
Let's say A blacklists B.
A sees in his list that he blacklisted B, naturally.
B should see nothing, just as it is the case so far.
It actually is a quite simple suggestion:
When A blacklists B, he blacklists himself from B too. There is no need to make it to B's list for that step though, a hidden entry or separate list for that purpose are simple solutions.
And if A undoes the blacklisting, it's gone for both sides. Unless B blacklisted A by himself too.
So there is no reason why more information would have to be shared and B would have exactly the same options to register if he got blacklisted by A. Nothing that could cause any more drama than now.
Strange experience to agree with konrads6. ;)
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I'm with you 100%, I always found it weird that I was able to enter giveaways from people on my blacklist.
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It does give a bad vibe, doesn't it? In extreme cases you could say "I hate you with passion, now give me free stuff!" I always thought this way it is implemented now is rather hypocritical.
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Which is why I'm perfectly happy not entering their giveaways as well. But it does seem like an easily abused system which would require very little to fix.
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who blacklisted you could be shown as "anonymous". I see your point and also agree with jbondguy... but I see that op suggestion can improve overall complaints about blacklist tool since most who is against this idea is more like "I don't care" than "no way"
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Hmm its actually a good point seems unfair to blacklist and still enter said blacklistee's ga's.
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950ppl
I'll admit that since the statistics feature rolled out I've really wanted to know this.
But the idea sounds decent enough though.
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Strange to say this, but yes. I agree. I never liked this half-assed implementation, it is a complete chickening out from the site's part. If you have a blacklist, have the balls to do it properly or not at all. This weasel-y, cowardly "I blacklist you but stay silent about it because I'm a pussy" way is just bullshit. You don't like someone? Fine. Have the courtesy of blocking them all the way and accept that by cutting the ties, you cut all ties, not just the ones that you feel convenient.
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I would be fine with just the option to reroll a giveaway, the system doing the worki doesnt cover proper ethics from the blacklister, which sadly is what i want to see from people
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Haven't been very active lately, but why are you on so many blacklists?
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they are jealous ^^ look my steam page ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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He is the resident forum… I cannot really say troll. More like a classic village idiot but without being actually mentally impaired, I guess. Most forums have that one annoying guy who isn't really toxic, but generally disliked. Mostly harmless, just don't get into politics.
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A lot of blacklists were as a result of konrads giving negative feedback just because the guy refused to trade.
And the other reason was posted by Sighery just a couple of comments below.
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TBH, when a user with enough negative clout embraces a matter, they trigger a whiplash of contrarian opinions, just like a user with a large enough positive clout generates automatic approval to an extent.
Thus it is possible for them to stifle honest conversation on a topic simply by starting trololol-face threads about the matter the poster wants to sabotage.
It may not look toxic on the surface, but it actively contributes to defining what is or what is not a valid position: "you can't be serious right? that's exactly what NegativeCloutUser is supportive of - NCU also eats kitten's meat every day and says everybody should follow their example"
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A variety of reasons. He wants you to blacklist him if you support gay rights. I'm sure that landed him on a lot of blacklists.
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If anything, I've blacklisted him and he blacklisted me back, because he was threathening to report to support everyone being in favor of gay marriage.
It has nothing to do with he's always proclaiming (jealousy).
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Yeah, and when people exceed a number of blacklists they automatically get permabanned. Like... I don't know... 950 seems like a good number! Noone would actually get blacklisted by that many people. I mean, c'mon... You would need to be a really, really pathetic guy to be on that many spots, but it would be a nice preemptive feature. Just to make sure, you know.
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Hmm, actually you have a point, seems pretty hypocritical to blacklist someone, thus outcasting them and preventing him for joining your giveaways, but then enter said person's giveaways nonetheless.
Prepare for the hate tho.
also, how come you're blacklisted so much? #outoftheloop.
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Leaks giveaways. Breaks rules.
Wait, what? Konrads is always suspended for inappropriate behaviour. I never heard about any actual rule-breaking; he seems to be rather careful about staying within rules.
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Hm. Wasn't the official stance that SGTools leaks do not fall under SG jurisdiction? I stopped following the shitstorm the whole SGTools political power trip escalated to after it started to stop being only a statistics site and puffed itself to some wannabe self-proclaimed JugendPolice for SG, but I vaguely recall something about that.
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Not talking about the fact that he got banned on SGTools, but talking about the fact that he leaked giveaways and admitted to it himself. Another one IIRC is when he made his milestone thread asking for people to remove him from their blacklist, and he kept creating copies of the thread over and over because everyone was after his hide.
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Well, as I said, to my knowledge leaking an SGTools giveaway is a dick move, but not rule-breaking here; at least I recall something that leaking is valid for puzzles for some reason.
As for the other… that's just annoying, probably, but definitely not against any site rule. You cannot beg for a game, cannot beg to be on a whitelist, but I don't recall even support saying anything about asking people to remove one from a blacklist.
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The first point is a good one. Leaking an SGTools GA is not breaking SG Rules. But the reason I mentioned the second one is not because of the intention of the thread, but the fact that he kept creating the threads over and over again (I counted 15 reposts before reporting him to a mod.)
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There were more similar bad trade feedbacks from him; I have a relatively terrible memory, but I usually tend to read his threads (partly because of a perverse curiosity on what stupid thing he got himself into this time, partly to see the sheer toxicity and bile some of the otherwise nicer people around here can spew as they turn into typical cyberbullies). I think I recall one that he refused to delete though, the rest seem to be gone.
Plus, well, despite what the otherwise really cool guys in support say, honestly, it does feel like as if any trade-related issues brought to support level have next to zero importance levels, so technically konrads may only have inappropriate behaviour rep sheet still.
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Developer? laughs No, what made you think that? I work in IT, strictly speaking, but in a very different field.
As for this system, it is fairly good of a framework, I agree, but to properly work it, IMO it needs barter.vg. Still, a good system is one thing, but the usual problem of the traders here is that their tickets practically never get answered. Heck one (apparently inactive) mod even flat-out said that nobody gives a shit about the trading section…
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as far as i know, innapropriate behavior, and once had some issues with his wins.
the rest are made up by people repeating the same thing. being permabanned and coming back, leaking GAs, etc.
all this just adds more fuel to the fire so the angry mob can focus on someone.
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My feeling exactly. Yes, konrads can be annoying (sometimes to a really great degree, like his little rampage in the gay marriage thread), but honestly, whenever I see his threads, I get the feeling that a literal witch hunt is against him. That developer guy who had the whitelist for whitelist threads and unactivated games up the ass didn't get this much hostility, and he was an actual serial rule-breaker, not just a constant annoyance.
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Well, as far as I know, he managed to get on the wrong side of the community by breaking rules (last time I've checked, it was for calling out).
What I know is that I've blacklisted him for his childish behavior on a serious thread. I mean, reporting or threathening everyone against his opinion wasn't really a good move. I've spoken to people being against my opinion on the same thread and we never ended up in each other blacklist - he's the only one ended up in mine that day and he blacklisted probably back for that or because of our different points of view.
To stay on topic, it means that for both of us, the situation described in his suggestion can't happen. But I can understand why he feel like a blacklist should be automatic.
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I don't like this idea, I find it easier to never blacklist people. If someone blacklisted me and wants to enter one of my giveaways they are free to join, I'm more concerned with getting a winner that doesn't already own the game and doesn't breaks the rules.
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so sg team should add option - both blacklist or not.
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What? Have you read what I wrote?
I'm okey with the system as it is, if someone wants to blacklist me they have the right to do so. But I don't want to blacklist them back, I keep my blacklist at 0, if this gets implemented my personal blacklist will be outside of my control. How is that fair?
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My thoughts exactly.
I don't blacklist people, and I don't want them to not be able to join my giveaways if they want.
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Read what I said to konrads, my problem is in that I like my blacklist to remain at 0 forever.
I dislike the whole blacklist idea, but I won't stop people from using it.
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If someone blacklisted me and wants to enter one of my giveaways they are free to join,
You wrote this.
But maybe s/he really doesn'tt care about being blacklisted and wants us to have change.
I quoted this for that.
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Yeah, gonna be honest here. I don't get the "wants us to have change" part.
I blame myself, english isn't my first language and I possibly f*cked up the meaning of what I wrote.
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I meant a chance to win those giveaways, I tried to say "They might want us to enter their giveaways.".
Oops. Sorry, Looks like I had written change instead of chance. :3.
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Why don't we just leave the system as it is right now?
Meddling with it might cause more problems, anonymity is a good thing in this case.
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It depends on how it's broken, I had a clock that lost it's minute hand, it never told me the right time
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Yes, me neither. But, I don't want to prevent people that have me in their blacklist entering my giveaways too.
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That's what I thought. An option to hide GAs from blacklisted Users might be good for those who are too lazy to check, but that's the furthest I'd go.
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That's slightly different reason than konrads6's . I would like an option like "Don't allow me to enter to giveaways of people I blacklisted" in my profile, but I don't mind people who blacklisted me to enter my giveaways.
But, actually I've installed userscript that shows if a person in a blacklist or a whitelist, so now I always know that I should not enter particular giveaway - problem solved)
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+1 with the option, for those who don't want to use a script, it would be easier.
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950 people?! I thought I was bad with 5..
Someone removed me from their WL and put me on their BL..
Makes me sad, wish I could know who done it so I could discuss why they did it :c
But I do agree, I never knew that people who blacklisted you could enter your giveaways.. That seems a bit shitty if you pardon my French.
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I have been blacklisted by 950ppl
How sad. Only needed 50 more people to get 1000.
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I agree. Whenever someone blacklists you, they should get automatically blacklisted back, but it shouldn't be possible to see whoever was blacklisted by this automatic action.
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Thinks it's actually the first time i see a post of konrad6 that's not stupid, i must say that i don't dislike the idea, even though it should be an optional thing. Like maybe as part of setting for giveaways that hides giveaways from people you've blacklisted.
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The only reason I could think of that I would blacklist someone is if they didnt redeem my gift. I would still like to be able to enter GAs from that person if its a game I want. I havent done anything wrong so why should I automatically get blacklisted in return.
And by the way. If you have been blacklisted by more then 100 people it must be for some good reason like bad behaviour etc, and then your account should get an evaluation if it deserves a ban or not.
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I agree but it was already discussed many times, I personnally don't really care because my blacklist is empty. Also you should ask yourself what you are doing wrong and how you could fix, a lot of people are ready to forgive you for whatever you did, it's not a war. You don't need mutual assured destruction function to protect yourself.
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Won't be done, because it would be difficult to implement in a way that would work fairly.
- The first option is for the blacklister to pop up on the blacklisted members blacklist. This can't work as hoped because of the blacklist limit. Say 100 people added me to their blacklist. Half way though, I'm out of space on my own blacklist and they aren't being added any longer.
- The second option is for the blacklister to just be unable to see the other members giveaways at the same time, while not needing to add to the other blacklist. Which is easily broken by removing them to enter stuff, then adding them back.
- The third option, getting the names of users that blacklisted you, not going to happen because it would create too much trouble when people start sharing names of blacklisters and getting their friends to blacklist them, etc.
Now honestly, while you might not be happy with the current implementation of blacklists, you are probably safe from many of those users entering your giveaways anyway. The majority of users that would blacklist you are forum regulars and had a chance to grab the bundled games you have done already.
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tbh the second option seems very viable. On the proviso that you can't even see them (not just unable to enter), then it shouldn't be an issue, because if someone wants to work around it, that means they would need to clear everyone from their blacklist every day and re-add them after, just in the hopes that someone on the BL made a giveaway they could see and enter. That seems like a substantial effort that would cause a very low instance of abuse.
That and I just personally disagree with the idea that "someone could game the system" being a roadblock to "we need an overall better system"
just my opinion, though.
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"Oh hey, they have a sweet forum giveaway. Oh, I can't enter because I blacklisted them. Better undo that for a few minutes." Alternatively, watching the profile of those you know will have good gives anyway.
There isn't an abuse free system to replace it, that is why it has been kept this way for over a year now.
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Still a better system than the current one, because now it needs no work from the enterer's part. Ways to abuse some things on the site were discussed already, so it's not like the system is nuclear-proof perfect. If they want to juggle their blacklist every five minutes, let them. But at least they would have to work for it. And who knows, maybe accidentally the one they are juggling on their list accidentally sees and enters one of their GAs for a little karma payback.
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People have scripts to autojoin giveaways..Why wouldn't they make a script to unblacklist, join, then reblacklist?
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So.... increase blacklist limit?
EDIT: actually, second point is fair. Nevermind.
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That way it'd have to have infinite number of free spots. And I don't think it'g gonna happen.
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There is a relatively easy fix. Do option 2 and use a timer, so that removing someone from a blacklist will only become effective with a 30 days delay. All problems solved.
You could make it even more punishing for those trying to game the system.
Scenario:
A blacklisted B - neither can join the other's GAs
A removes B from his blacklist
- B gets immediate access to A's GAs
- A gets access to B's GAs after a delay of 30 days
I don't see why such a system shouldn't work and it is very easy to implement.
But who knows, maybe I'm missing something?
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Given that has been suggested as well, I know there is something I'm forgetting that makes it unsuitable.
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Hm. Would be nice to know that reason, because I really can't imagine why it shouldn't work. Not that blacklists really trouble me, I'm more interested in the mechanism by itself.
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Well, off the top of my head, I've seen threads and giveaways where people were inviting people for reconsideration and removal from their blacklist, often with the express intention of enabling entry to a currently ongoing giveaway. Such things may also occur spontaneously when someone notices they've been blacklisted and inquires about it, and things are cleared up. It also complicates matters where two people may have simply had a disagreement and then made up.
I could easily see it inconveniencing far more people than would be prevented from entering giveaways of those they've blacklisted. I'm really not convinced it's much of an issue and I think the problem being addressed is a very minor one when compared to the actual and potential consequences of the proposed solutions, never mind the difficulty of implementing them in the first place, and, quite frankly, I think there are, and probably always will be, much more pressing matters for cg to deal with.
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+1 for the 2nd option!
Doesn't need to be bullet proof, but it's just unfair the way it is right now! And if they want to clear their BL for several times every day, I don't care. Even if they'll do it with a script (I guess there won't be so many users using a script like this).
EVERY solution would be better/fairer than the actual situation and a vice versa BL would be easy to implement!
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Salute.
What should be ?
Example 1.
I blacklisted A. He can;t join my gas and I CAN'T ENTER HIS GAS.
Example 2.
I blacklisted A and A blacklisted me. We both are blacklisted, so we cannot enter gas konrads6 and A, untill both unblacklist.
WHY?
I have been blacklisted by 950ppl, but i know only about +200ppl. It is not good when from one side ppl can enter my gas.
PROFIT?
v2. sg team should add option mutual blacklisted or not - it is the best soulution so far. if you want blacklist who blacklisted you, option yes, if you don't care: no
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