I hope your son hasn't lost motivation to work on things that one day made him happy because of the compromised account incident! no one should take anyone's happiness away from them! and he should really continue working on that game and improving.
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Thanks Fae your one of the "good eggs" on here and yes it did have a little to do with this problem but to be honest he has been in kinda a dark /upsetting way for a while with real world problems - so this just gave him the reason to remove it rather than just have it sit there getting dusty
Don't worry I will still be around here myself though
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True but at least he knew it was crap and didn't charge £50 + dlc like Homeworld 3 did
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Charging anything for someone's first project should be a crime. This is the kind of game you throw in a windows folder to be forgotten, not something you release, especially paid on Steam.
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What might seem like "trash" to you is rather representing someone's passion and effort.. That simple game you're dismissing so casually isn't just a simple "pile of trash".
I see it as a representation to his courage to create something he wanted to see big and especially from scratch, no matter how simple it looks like or how simple it's executed.
When you carelessly label someone's first attempt as "trash," you're not just critiquing an object or a piece of work. You're potentially crushing someone's spirit, destroying their motivation, undermining their confidence and discouraging them from continuing to explore their potential or expand and try something unusual or new.
Creativity can be hard and pursuing it requires vulnerability, and every single person starts somewhere often with something imperfect but filled with genuine intent and pure passion.
Instead of pouring your toxicity on his simple game you could've instead provided constructive feedback to help him improve and continue what he saw pure happiness in one day, but your harsh words speak more about your lack of empathy and understanding than about the actual moral value of the game.
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+1
Couldn't have written it any better!
Sadly I didn't know about the game and even more sad that I can't buy it here in germany. It wouldnt be wasted money for me, just a support for his dreams and his work itself.
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What might seem like "trash" to you is rather representing someone's passion and effort..
You do realize, that just because it was made with "passion", it does not need to be charged money for yes?
I see it as a representation his courage to create something he wanted to see big and especially from scratch, no matter how simple it looks like or how simple it's executed.
Or simply someone's first game.
You're potentially crushing someone's spirit, destroying their motivation, undermining their confidence and discouraging them from continuing to explore their potential or expand and try something unusual or new.
When you actively choose to charge money for.... "this", you should expect criticism, and much of it. There is no excuse here.Creativity can be hard and pursuing it requires vulnerability, and every single person starts somewhere often with something imperfect but filled with genuine intent and pure passion.
Yes, and what most people do is work and develop that passion on their own. You do not see a person who just had his first clarinet lesson charge for concert tickets do you? Or a first-time comedian charge for a show? A first-time cook charge for a meal? etc etc.
Instead of pouring your toxicity on his simple game you could've instead provided constructive feedback to help him improve and continue what he saw pure happiness in one day, but your harsh words speak more about your lack of empathy and understanding than about the actual moral value of the game.
There is no constructive feedback to provide, it is a simple game, one could have made in an hour. If it was something grandiose that clearly failed to meet the mark, then yes, i could understand providing valuable critical feedback, but this is like someone making you a single burnt french fry, and you are appalled that someone would dare call it unedible without any real feedback. There is no moral value, every product is made by a person, and charging money for it says "I think this is good, i deserve to get paid". No, you don't, end of story.
Even i have made some simple games in the past in school, was there effort and passion poured into them? Yes. Were they trash? Yes. Did i try and charge money for them? No.
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So in your words, you're saying that because something is so simple and lightly executed it automatically has no value? Every master starts somewhere. Just because someone is at the beginning of their journey doesn't mean their work deserves mockery or calling their creation a trash. Your examples about first-time musicians or chefs actually prove my point... these people practice.. make imperfect attempts and gradually improve.
No one becomes exceptional overnight.
There's no way you're going to prepare a Fugu dish day 1 in the kitchen or come up with Half-Life 3 as you learn how to code and develop.
The difference is, many of those people you mentioned practice in private classes or workshops. Game developers often use platforms like itch.io or early access to get real-world feedback and potentially fund their continued learning. If someone's charging a minimal amount for their first game, they're not claiming to be a professional... they're seeking validation, feedback, and potentially a way to support continuing their learning or a small push to motivate them to improve.
Your burnt french fry analogy is particularly telling. A more constructive approach would be understanding that every creation is a learning process. Instead of just declaring something "trash," you could choose to either ignore it or if you feel compelled? offer genuine and kind guidance.
The fact that you've made simple games yourself and understand the effort involved makes your harsh criticism even more disappointing. You know exactly how it feels to be a beginner. Wouldn't you have appreciated some encouragement?
Criticism without compassion says more about the critic than the creator.
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So in your words, you're saying that because something is so simple and lightly executed it automatically has no value?
I have never said that, please do not put words into my mouth. Simple and light execution done well has it's place. This is however not simple and light. This simple and rough. Very rough. Basically every person's first project.
Your examples about first-time musicians or chefs actually prove my point... these people practice.. make imperfect attempts and gradually improve.
You seem to have cherry-picked words from my response to make your point seem better. The whole point was about them charging money for it. A first-time chef charging money for a half-burnt baguette would get laughed out of the room.
Game developers often use platforms like itch.io or early access to get real-world feedback and potentially fund their continued learning. If someone's charging a minimal amount for their first game, they're not claiming to be a professional... they're seeking validation, feedback, and potentially a way to support continuing their learning or a small push to motivate them to improve.
No, not really. Since when do you need to charge money to get validation? There are plenty of free projects released on Steam and itch.io daily precisely because the developers are seeking real actual feedback, and are aware their product is not good enough to be charged money for. Charging money for this screams arrogance, not "seeking feedback".
Your burnt french fry analogy is particularly telling. A more constructive approach would be understanding that every creation is a learning process. Instead of just declaring something "trash," you could choose to either ignore it or if you feel compelled? offer genuine and kind guidance.
A learing process you need to pay money for yes? So you would gladly pay for the burnt french fry, and tell the chef, "oh it was great it just needs some tweaks here and there"? Alright.
The fact that you've made simple games yourself and understand the effort involved makes your harsh criticism even more disappointing. You know exactly how it feels to be a beginner. Wouldn't you have appreciated some encouragement?
Of course, but if someone told me my game was trash i would not take it personally, because i'm self-aware enough to know that i've just started at a task and need a lot of time to improve. Alas, i would also not charge money for it, because i'm seeking real feedback, not money.
Criticism without compassion says more about the critic than the creator.
Choosing to charge money for something most developers would dump on itch.io for free or keep private, says a lot, lot more about the creator than the critic.
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Why does it upset you so much that he didn't make it a free game but put a nominal price on it? If you don't want to pay for it, no one forces you to.
To me it just feels unnecessary to leave such a negative and hurtful remark.
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Asking for money, means you believe the product is worth that money. Even for that price, there are a ton of other, much better games released that had some real love and effort put into them, and are actually worth their asking price. This is just me calling it what it is, trash.
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"Better" is such a relative and subjective term. It is not up to me to decide the value of art (and I consider games art as well). I expect your and my taste of music are different from each other, and that doesn't mean that your music is bad. Neither is mine.
I wouldn't pay 5 cents for a banana taped to a wall, let alone millions - yet someone did. And while I don't see why anyone would do that, it is not up to me to claim that I am right and complain about it. And I especially wouldn't be mad about it, because I don't have to pay for it.
The creator of the game may have asked for that minimal amount of money simply because earning a few Euros for the game may have made him feel good about where he is heading and validated his first efforts. If you didn't think he deserved your money, then you simply didn't pay him.
As I said, I cannot see why you seem to be so angry about someone asking for 79 cents for his game that you can simply ignore anyway.
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"Better" is such a relative and subjective term. It is not up to me to decide the value of art (and I consider games art as well). I expect your and my taste of music are different from each other, and that doesn't mean that your music is bad. Neither is mine.
While i would usually agree, there are a number of times where better, does objectively mean better. Like here. The difference between this, and something like this for example, is night and day, visible to anyone from the outside looking in. The game here just fails at a fundamental level, mainly due to complete lack of understanding of game design and development, which makes sense, because again, it's someone's first project that shouldn't even be on Steam, let alone paid.
it is not up to me to claim that I am right and complain about it.
I believe it is, not the claiming you're right part, but complaining about it? Certainly.
As I said, I cannot see why you seem to be so angry about someone asking for 79 cents for his game that you can simply ignore anyway.
Years of seeing the laziest of hackjobs make it onto Steam and having the gall to ask money have made me quite jaded to these sorts of things. Especially when it seems to be quite a minority doing it. The vast majority of newbie game devs can understand what their product is, and offer it for free to gain valuable feedback from a large userbase. While here we see someone charging money for a product that is akin to a student's first lesson, that just screams arrogance to me, not validation.
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By comparison I could find many AAA games that "should be free" due to lower quality compared to other, cheaper games. But it is up to the devs/publishers of each game to decide what they want for it.
So I still don't see why you would be so agitated by someone asking for money for a product, regardless of how bad you may think it is. Simply don't pay for it, as you do with thousands of articles each day.
But as I can see, you have made up your mind about this issue, as is your right. Personally, I just don't see the point in leaving such a harsh comment when there is a human being behind the game who may profit from constructive criticism rather than a one-line put-down.
But that is just my personal opinion. Thank you for trying to explain your reasoning, even though I guess we will never agree on this issue.
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I will also close this off by saying thank you for actually willing to engage in a polite discussion. So many times these things on SG seemingly end in barrages of insults thrown by either side, when they could have just as easily been a normal discussion as happened here.
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I wouldn't pay 5 cents for a banana taped to a wall, let alone millions - yet someone did.
I only want to correct the assuming that someone really paid millions for the banana that was taped to the wall.
Of course that were said but in the end never someone pay really such amounts. None made a high offer, nothing got sold. It's always only a PR stunt to get more attention and to raise the worth of a painter/artist.
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According to Wikipedia:
Number two of the limited edition of three was sold to cryptocurrency entrepreneur Justin Sun for $6.2 million in November 2024.[1][2][3] Soon afterward, he ate the banana onstage, comparing it to a crypto asset and saying, "the real value is the concept itself".
Before mentioning the banana art in the above post, I also checked some known media outlets, and they seem to concur. Granted, I didn't dive into the subject in great detail, but from what I had read I assumed this has indeed taken place. However, I wasn't willing to dive into a rabbit hole to check the validity of it, so if you have better sources, I am willing to concede. 😊
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On Steamgifts, "trash" is actually a compliment. ;)
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/1zXpN/grezs-trash-typhoon-2019-226-gas-lvl-2-ended
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I could not disagree more with you. I've made a few games myself, showed them to friends and family, integrated their feedback and then thrown them all into a windows folder to be forgotten, because I throught they are "not good enough".
Now I don't make games anymore. I've got a few unfinished projects, abandoned because the "they will never get good enough to be public" already settled in early.
I know how comments like yours can break one's spirit and nip good stuff in the bud.
Since you don't mind being blunt, I'm also not going to be diplomatic here: "Charging anything for someone's first project should be a crime." makes you sound like a beggar who wants free games and then complains about the quality anyway.
And I don't like people that are like that. I guess congrats on being the first and only... to make it onto my blacklist.
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It doesn't make them seem like a beggar. They could've handled things better here, but no, a first-time developer definitely should not default be charging for their game. There is the expectation of games meeting some basic standards. Part of the issue with Steam right now is there is no checks and balances outside of the $100 price of entry, and as a result, Steam is filled with crap games that should never have had a price tag attached to them.
The very reason so many first time devs list their games as ftp on Steam is to avoid that pitfall while also having the opportunity to receive feedback that can be applied to future projects they do intend to charge money for. We're not going to pretend any dev, new or old, isn't aware of the quality or lack thereof, of any game they release.
And since apparently the idea behind charging for this game was to be able to add cards, which in theory would generate passive income, instead of making a game people actually would not object to paying for, that ends up being a double whammy of what not to do.
Making a game that doesn't work out as intended is fine. Not everything can be great. But there should be some self-awareness attached to that, which tells the dev that since it's not good, they shouldn't be selling it.
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And yet it is - rightfully so - not a crime (and never should be) to charge money for a game... even if it's their first.
Also, asking for free stuff does not make someone a begger, but demanding it must be free does make them a beggar.
I'm not sure what exactly the thought of adding cards was. Was it "I get money off that too" or "I like trading cards and badges, would be nice to have them for my game"? Maybe even something else? I don't know, so I'm not assuming the worst.
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Similarly, charging people for a broken experience is a scam. And in any other industry, there would be no hesitation in getting the item removed from the market w/o requiring a change of heart from the producer of said product.
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Indeed, that's the reason why big games invest tons of money into bug testing and only releasing high quality, bug free experien...
Ok, bad example, but Microsoft doesn't roll out broken updates that still brick your computers or the software even a year after publicat....
Um, but wait, Tesla's Cybertruck was immediately taken off the market... oh.
Or maybe "just" a bad product does not make it a scam. Especially with Steam's "right to return" that seems to be a non-issue.
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You're talking about oligarchs getting away with shit because they're oligarchs. That is a separate and greater issue that has been and continues leading us to some interesting times.
But yes, if you willfully try to sell people a broken product, then you are a scammer. Point blank period. That there is a mediocre layer of consumer protection is besides the point.
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Not at all he wanted cards as games with cards have at least some value and people seem to like collecting cards
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Good to read, and I guess I count myself to those people... It reminds me a bit of my Pokémon collecting time...
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Perhaps he can find the time to make some fixes and refactor the code for smoother operation. The more you do it, the easier it gets. :)
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A nice notch in the archival history of Steam games Wigglenose :)
It will be somewhere forever and some people one day will look back on everything from now and see it. Who knows what a world they will live in?
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I will address the fact it was a paid for game and the only reason it was - is becuase he had hoped to add cards later on but of course that couldn't happen
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I hope he is no disheartened by the experience and will not give up.
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Regardless of the opinions of value, if time and effort is spent the creator has every right to ask for compensation for their time. Just as the consumer has the right not to purchase or agree. Everyone of us has spent more on less without a second thought.
Your son has made a greater effort than most, sorry it didn't work out for him but hopefully he will regain his love of creating.
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Exactly. There are more expensive asset flips made with no effort or love just to milk players. This here is different.
And the choice to spend money or not is still ours.
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+1
Except if you are from germany - there, the game isn't available. :(
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True, it's listed under "restricted_countries"... I wonder why?
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I assume it is because of the missing age rating. Every game has to have it since last November.
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Great. Over here they've talked about a general "shooter ban" (which never made it anywhere, as far as I'm aware), and our neighbors ban games without an age rating, no matter how harmless they are.
Nett...
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As a dev or publisher you can get that rating relative easily, afaik the Steam rating is enough. But, you have to ask for it.
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I didn't know about that and neither did my son sorry - btw can Germany still activate none rated games?
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No need to be sorry, it wasn't meant to offend you or your son! Nobody knows everything. Besides that it isn't a game where you think of an age rating, like for a shooter or a hentai game, let alone the laws in x countries around the world.
The strange thing is, that we also still can buy these non-rated games - but not on Steam. And yes, they still can be activated.
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It's easy to make your game available in Germany. Open Steamworks, go to "Content Survey", answer couple questions and check some boxes, save and publish.
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Steam has its own rating system? I've always just saw the "official" ratings FSK/USK/PEGI/...
Wasn't aware of any other system in place... thank you for the info.
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Yes, afaik this rating system is directly from Steam:
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Just felt it was the right time to do so with everything else going on - online and off
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Knowing how people are with deleted games, some will 'waste their money' either way, but sorry it didn't work out. Nothing wrong with cutting loose ties though, I get it.
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You can keep the keys without having to ask steam support.
Keys never expire unless you revoke them, and that applies to banned games, unlisted, purchase disabled and any game on steam.
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I wanted to say thank you to everyone who has helped my me and my son with the game and tried it out but after recent events to hs account he has decided to ask for it's removal on 2nd April 2025
I would like to point out their will be no final discount as he does not want anyone to waste their money on it
How ever here is the fun part I will be using the leftover keys (a lot of leftover keys) to make giveaways for the games - some for groups and some for whitelist but first off is a 60 copy giveaway open to all
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/Calis/ - 60 copies no level needed
Update: I have been in contact with the Steam support and asked if I can keep my unused keys for giveaways - so I am unsure if I can keep them if I have to use them first I will be waiting to remove the game until they are gone (but the game will be removed in the future)
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