What do you think of "deleting group GAs with 1-4 entries to re-post elsewhere"?
Even with 5 hours sleep can already point that one flaw, not liking it but not caring about penalizing.
Comment has been collapsed.
"I don't care" is intended as a neutral/neither option, which is suited for your choice of "not liking it but not caring about penalizing".
Comment has been collapsed.
Every time you delete a giveaway your number of giveaway slots decrease afaik, so this action is already penalized.
As to whether it should be or not, I think it's fine as long as it doesn't happen too often.
Comment has been collapsed.
You're able to create up to 465 additional gifts based on your giveaway feedback.
Yeah, I feel very penalized every time I have removed giveaways. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
It is penalized to a certain extent, though. Deleting a giveaway deletes one giveaway slot - it isn't much, but I thought I'd point it out nevertheless.
Comment has been collapsed.
Good point, so I have added the following question to my post: Is the existing penalty of subtracting one from the number of giveaway slots a sufficient penalty?
Comment has been collapsed.
Personally I don't much care either way as the only giveaways I deal with is (a.) whitelists and (b.) a group in which such action does not make sense. But if I were to make adequate changes to this penalty, I'd make it expansive (there's a better word for it but it's late and I can't figure out what) to your current giveaway slots - if you're a new user, deleting 1 giveaway costs 1 slot, but if you have 20 giveaway slots already, you lose 2, etc.
Not the best of solutions, but just a fun little idea.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't care but I also think that 5 entries to get exp should not exist.
I want to give away a game and if I give it to a group I still want to give it away and even better if only 1 person wants it because I'm sure that it will go to someone who wants it not a bot :)
Shame that I won't get any xp for my GAs.
Comment has been collapsed.
But think of it that way - what would prevent users from creating a private giveaway and send the link to a single friend when gifting them something or when trading so that they can abuse the system? Sadly, without this restriction, people would definitely attempt to abuse it, even for stupid shit like CV. I've seen some new users create private giveaways for super expensive games, which ended with 0 entries, in an attempt to abuse the CV system (without realizing that they needed at least an entry, let along 5, for it to be eligible), so yeah... human greed and stupidity is to blame for the inconvenience that the honest have to deal with, as with many things in life.
Comment has been collapsed.
Having only 1 person in WL or creating a group only with 1 person should result i na ban :)
"human greed and stupidity is to blame for the inconvenience that the honest have to deal with, as with many things in life."
Sadly true. But I still beleive that more people are the good ones not the dicks. So after a few bans everything would be ok :P
Comment has been collapsed.
No, the 5 entry-limit makes it easier to regulate the people trying to screw the system. If you're in a group that regularly gets less than 5 entries, then start doing multi-group/whitelist-inclusive giveaways.
I don't have that problem, cos I generally do public giveaways :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Well public giveaways looked fine at start but than I saw people just geting games not to play them but to have +1 in their steam library and also one guy pissed me off because I have to wait 9 days for him to click that he recaived the GA while he was online on steam and on this page every day.
Maybe a bot or tried to sell the game and only after support ticket he finally activated the game.
Comment has been collapsed.
For sure one of the LOT OF Autojoiners/bots and one of the reasons why i don't do public GA's anymore.
Something is really wrong when i must run behind people and waste lifetime and get stressed from it that they take won stuff -that cost me money-.
Comment has been collapsed.
Like I found a few groups that I like and I will make Ga there. Don't want lvl 0-1 bots to join my GA.
Also it looks we have 1.2 mln users but 900k are lvl 0-1 so...
I prefer to give games to people that play them and give some games to other peoples :)
Comment has been collapsed.
And from all the people are only around 25k active.
Around 18k of them never gave something...
There was a thread to the exact numbers i can't remember fully on it so maybe the numbers are more worse than that (but not better).
This numbers spread more and more to the bad side
A system only work as long as it is a GIVING and TAKING. When it is only a TAKING it doesn't work.
And at least since Dez. 2016 it goes down at this site (comments, threads, GA's).
I think because the people are frustrated, as i am, about all the cheating, exploiting, rule breaking, loopholes and how long that are unseen/unnoticed/unpunished , not really much possibilities to hold "the apples" out of your GA's with the level restriction each one can buy a few 1$ cv exploiting bundles and are at level 4 without spending more then 15 or 20$ and that it isn't a rule to give something BACK to the community.
I checked at one of my public GA's, level 2, all entries. From 330 users landed 180 at my BL after it.... with such numbers i am not willing to create GA's for the public special when i have only 1k spaces at my BL. I don't want to be forced to spend such a lot of time to manage my BL or to be forced to support such people in my head is a other word for such people
Its the holy land for all leechers.
Comment has been collapsed.
So Groups + WL seams the best way to give games to real living people than?
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes with a lvl restriction for the group AND checking all your winners with sgtools if they broke the multiwin/not activated rules + IF needed a "request new winner" support ticket with the rule breaks.
And sorting out (BL) the ones that don't know a thanks after activating a win.
I often find winners that have 3 or 4 year old entries at sgtools and not got punished for them.
The record i found was with 38 entries, partly 4 years old -_-
The record a fem friend found was 46 entries, partly 4 years old.
Its to common that people can break the GA rules for such a long time and resell there wins :o(
Comment has been collapsed.
From thread about Contribution Levels:
If a giveaway is invite only, or for a whitelist or Steam group, it will only add value towards your level if it receives 5 or more entries. We made this change to combat small groups of friends from attempting to cheat the contributor system, and to encourage users to expand the reach of their giveaways. The new whitelist feature offers an easy way to target a larger audience, and you can combine it with small Steam groups to receive a greater number of giveaway entries if needed.
Comment has been collapsed.
People used to 'give' games to specific person by having only 1/2 entrants. That is pretty much avoided with the 5 entries minimum rule.
Might be hard to come across now because of this rule, but there would be people as jbondguy said who gave 10 full value games away to their 1/2 friends (always same 1-2 winners) and their CV would far surpassi yours for example. Would that be fair to a user like you who actually gives to (semi) random people instead of just giving away to their buddies that are collectively farming CV? Heck they probably didn't even gave it away but just selected games they know their friend just bought, or asked their friend to create a giveaway every time they bought a game.
Comment has been collapsed.
OK I see how that could be a problem.
At least I don't care about CV because in a few years I will be level 10 in the end :P
Sometimes there will be 5 people sometimes more or less but the live will go on :D
Comment has been collapsed.
At least I don't care about CV because in a few years I will be level 10 in the end :P
It get's increasingly harder to level up the higher you get though. You're just short of level 4. But getting to 7 for example takes 10 times as much 'CV' (yours is at 96.02 as of this writing).
clicky
If I'm lucky I might make level 8 one day, but I'm sure I'll never get to 10, unless I win the lottery or so. :P
Comment has been collapsed.
I was level 4 for a week and now I'm level 3 :D
I see even getting to level 5 can be hard. But being lvl 5 or more is like 5% top users so it is ok for me :)
I care more about people enjoying my GA than about CV.
Comment has been collapsed.
Probably some games from bundles you gave away that weren't 'on the bundle list' yet.
Yeah I wouldn't look too often at it. It's more of a nice addition that you feel like working towards something I guess.
Comment has been collapsed.
Level 5 is easy. Level 6 is easy as well. Level 7 is where it gets a bit hairy, but it is manageable. Level 8 is where it gets hard, but that and level 9 are still relatively decent in pace. Level 10, on the other hand, that one can be a doozy.
Comment has been collapsed.
The 5 entries limit is needed against exploiting it.
It give, a lot, of Privat groups that have mostly under 10 entries, often under 5. The most of them have members that i don't know after 19 months at sg (not the avatar, not the names, never seen -and i have a very good memory by such things-), most of them are from the RU/CIS region or brazil. For sure only a conincidence coughing.
Normaly i report such "private trade groups" when the gifted stuff often aren't getting 5 entries because it is used partly to exploit the system. Such private "groups" have normaly 10-30 people and maximum a vk group page but nothing in the sg forum and no steam group page too.
"Easy way" = Make a GA but don't have the Game for it, your "friends" enter the GA, none of them expect a win and the winner get nothing but click the recieved button. The GA creator gets the cv. And they switch this system between them, each make the same. No GA win in the end but all get cv.
Clearly against the rules and it costed one or 2 times, from my reports, a good bunch of people because such cheating :o)
And i caught one, very well known fem member she was level 7 or 8, very active in the forum and liked, for multiaccounting with the same system by mostly FREE games. She pushed her mainaccount in the end by 2 sideaccounts for the, mostly only, +1 from the GA's very stupid.
So don't think it doesn't go stupider. You always find people that can beat it.
In the end you need to look closer to find such cheating/exploiting/rule breaking and not much people make that. Because of that the people can do it normaly for a longer time without getting caught.
When you take now the 5 entries minimum away you have thousands i would bet on 10k+ of people that exploit it from the first second on.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think I will just do a group + WL or group + group GA than to make sure there are more people in my GA.
Because I have one group that is 100+ people that I love and I love chatting with these people on steam but sometimes 10 enter my GA and somettimes only few :P
So group + WL it will be in the end :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Edited my text above. Sorry was needed many times. Thats the reason i write it :)
Yes WL + group(s) is never wrong.
I do normaly WL without level restriction or WL + groups with level 2 restriction. As soon as all my RL friends are over level 2 i will raise it to lvl 3.
Comment has been collapsed.
I did not read all of the resulting comments but I'll say this. In the 1st months of using SG I've already caught someone abusing the system with an exclusive group with 5 entries. Even 5 entries IS NOT enough imo.
If you want to gift someone, then gift the person the code and get on with it. If there's specific amount of ppl less than 4 person then DM them and maybe play a mini browser game with the highest scorer getting the code from you. If you want at least 5 entries in your gift for CV, I suggest putting it in Higher Lvl public or specific groups you feel will get more entries like Unlucky 7. Cheers, Cruse~
Comment has been collapsed.
Can't vote the poll as it's way too limited. Missing the option "I think it's stupid but it's not to SG to do something about it".
Comment has been collapsed.
My thinking was that if someone isn't against or supportive of penalizing this, then they essentially "don't care" enough to want any further action or lack thereof, which is just as respectable as the other answers.
Comment has been collapsed.
Throw a wobbly (also, Chuck a wobbly)
- To have a meltdown, temper tantrum, hissy fit, etc.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you are in a group where this is common practise, then you are in a wrong group anyway, since apparently members only care about the mostly pointless CV e-penis size instead of gifting others games.
(Then again, groups with entries in that range tend to fall into small inner trading groups anyway that just want to add CV "free" to the trading activity…)
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree that if this happens often in a group, then its a poor group to begin with.
groups with entries in that range tend to fall into small inner trading groups anyway that just want to add CV "free" to the trading activity
It makes sense that groups with GAs that commonly have <5 entries are inner trading groups, but what do you mean by "add CV 'free' to the trading activity"? If a GA has <5 entries, it doesnt count toward their group Sent CV, and it may not even count toward their group Sent GAs.
Comment has been collapsed.
It ties to your original post: people often just delete the giveaway and re-post it. The groups also tend to be in the few tens range of membership to avoid these situations.
Although it has been ages since I saw the group recruitment topic show any activity related to gathering small groups like that. Unless they are all done on vKontakte now. 🙃
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't care that much about ga deletion - people who do that loose one ga slot and it's ok.
I have problem with such small groups though as they are meant for super effective cv farming.
It's quite annoying when you create public ga with higher lvl and winner has almost all his cv earned in group gas with less than 10 entries.
It could be fixed with creating separate cv for public gas and separate cv for each group. For example - you can be lvl 10 in your small "elite ga group" but not able to enter lvl 3 public ga xD
Comment has been collapsed.
What do you consider to be a "small group" - Less than 100 people? 100-200 people?
It could be fixed with creating separate cv for public gas and separate cv for each group. For example - you can be lvl 10 in your small "elite ga group" but not able to enter lvl 3 public ga xD
That's an interesting idea to have a separate level for public vs each group. I think it would be more viable if there were just one level for all your group GAs vs level for public GAs.
Comment has been collapsed.
All group CV won't work that good - because there still will be people who farm cv in "5 members cv farming group" who enter 90k groups (like steamgifts, steam, poland, indiegala, germany, hentai, and so on).
Also if we count cv for each group separately - size of group won't be a problem. In case of multiple groups ga cv should be divided by number of groups. WL ga should give no cv.
And none of above will happen so that's just theoretical.
Comment has been collapsed.
My opinion? It sucks but it's something that the gifter has every right to do (at his/her expense since one GA slot will be removed) - After all, it is their game and it is their GA. Plus, it's not like I won't get my points back, right? So I guess everything's fine at the end :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I would not react on a recreating besides a reentering if the game interest me, if i have the points and if i think the chances are high enough for a realistic chance to win it (if not on my Wishlist -by that i delete the last point^^-).
Every time you delete a giveaway your number of giveaway slots decrease, so this action is already penalized.
I delete all GA's that don't reach the 5 entries and i wrote that into my GA Texts IF they aren't free games and IF i am at home to do it before it ends :o)
All in all maybe 10-15x in around 19 months and around 750 sended GA's. By all of them i added by the second creation more groups to the GA By my group GA's + WL have 230+ people access to it... 5 entries should be no problem but sometimes is "the devil a squirrel" and it doesn't reach 5 entries or lowered the level restriction at public GA's (both worked ;o) ).
To get 1 GA slot 3 of your GA winners must click the recieved button.
I think the punishment for the deletion is high enough.
Comment has been collapsed.
Thank you for sharing openly about how you handle GA deletion under similar circumstances.
To get 1 GA slot 3 of your GA winners must click the recieved button.
Thanks for explaining that, because I have only seen people write in general about received giveaways resulting in more slots, but not the exact numbers. So the punishment of deleting a giveaway basically un-does a benefit of 3 received GAs - That is certainly a more significant punishment than if every single received GA resulted in a new slot.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh and a short add because i am not sure that it was clear enough.
I don't delete GA's with under 5 entries IF the winner is picked and i was not at home to delete it before it ends.
I would see that unfair because someone was already happy to be the winner and then is the deletion of the GA like a kick in the nuts i had that by myself for 1 or 2 GA's as a winner and it was a really bad feeling to win and to get then anyways nothing.
So if someone is listed as a winner at my GA's he/she get the win, not from interest if i get then cv or not.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure, I understood your that your initial comment was only regarding deletion before GAs end.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think I've ever had that happen to myself but I know I did to my friend once when I realised I put down the wrong group, there was still days left so I didn't let it go to the last couple of minutes to realise but I still got rid of their possible high chance win,
So when it comes to opinions I'm like everyone else, sure it sucks but in the end unless it keeps happening to me I'm unlikely to say lets stop people deleting a giveaway when it has under 5 entries.
If a group takes action against that then I'm also fine with it. I'm sure it must suck if you have a small group and people keep deleting since not enough people
Since people bring up the already punishment, I've deleted a few giveaways for myself and if you keep creating giveaways you aren't really going to notice, but it will stop people from abusing it if they are running low. I wouldn't be surprised if someone out there ended up with 0 slots from bad giveaways
Comment has been collapsed.
So deleting a GA because wrong group is selected is more understandable.
I was more asking people their thoughts about deleting a GA for the sake of getting >=5 entries.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah I know I just put that down since it was both, I put down the wrong group and I didn't want to let it stay since it wasn't 5 entries.
Just because I didn't mention that didn't mean I didn't understand your question. People can delete it whenever they want, I think its acceptable to want to get cv and I support people with it
Comment has been collapsed.
This is the right of the gifter.
It is better than CV 0.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's pretty stupid if a person does it repeatedly. But you can't do it too often as then you will simply run out of giveaway slots. Which, considering someone caring about CV, would be a bad thing right?
Comment has been collapsed.
You can simply make rule in GA description * I done it in Past working pretty well.
If by some chance we reach below 5 entries after GA end I delete it, please accepted delete in comment when I ask about it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Is this even necessary if there are no SG or group rules about it? This notice would certainly be up front with the entry people, but I recognize they wouldnt be entitled to it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, but in my experience people agreed to it, or maybe simply I not encounter online trolls ;)
Simply if they do not follow rules of GAs you make you can always blacklist troublemakers afterwards and probably because this people follow rules ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not a rule, just a request. You can't make custom rules in giveaway, it's against site guidelines. People here are mostly nice and friendly, so they agree to it, but it's still not a rule.
Comment has been collapsed.
You can delete the GA before it ends, without that the winner must accept the deletion.
It is much fairer that way too because after a winner is picked it isn't correct for my taste to delete it and can be seen as "no, that winner gets nothing from me"
I delete GA's under 5 entries but before they end. If i am not at home and a GA is ended i send the win out, not from interest how many entries.
Comment has been collapsed.
Delete before end is pretty fair, after Ga finish I only once or twice delete GA ion the past but I not care any more about CV ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't like it as I feel it is unethical, but it's up to everyone's conscience if they do that - I would actively vote against penalizing it, at least on SG in general. Groups have their own rules, they do whatever they want.
Comment has been collapsed.
"I don't care" sounds like condoning abuse of the deletion feature, but I wouldn't go as far to say penalizing for doing so. It's up to the gifter if they want to delete a giveaway for any reason although I don't think the function was given with "under 5 entries" in mind. Is the CV of that game worth reposting? Is it just once or once in a month deal? I would frown upon regularly deleting multiple trash group giveaways, but it hasn't concerned me and "I don't care" if people do it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Is the CV of that game worth reposting? Is it just once or once in a month deal?
These are good things for both the gifter and entrants to consider.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think its better to educate users that if they want to gift and get CV then they should find other means like better communication within the group asking if anyone is interested before posting the gift if they feel its gonna get low entries. Previously I made a train of an indiebundle right after its Happy Hours. I thought I might not get that many entries as its Invite-Only and within the forum post. I am glad the response is good, even though some people may be just out right after the gifts than reading the post. ROFL.
Conclusion, I think the current penalization of a slot is decent, there maybe other ways but personally, I feel its the right of the gifter if they feel they wanted more entries.
Warm Regards + Cheers, Cruse~
Comment has been collapsed.
I think its better to educate users that if they want to gift and get CV then they should find other means like better communication within the group asking if anyone is interested before posting the gift if they feel its gonna get low entries.
Also could educate users that on all group pages, there is a Tools section with a Wishlist page that shows exactly how many people in group want a game (steamgifts.com/group/[SOME GIBBERISH]/[YOUR GROUP NAME]/wishlist)
Comment has been collapsed.
Personally, I dont think its a good representation. I usually cut down on my wishlist to not get it too flooded. There are also times others may come to be interested in a game that is given away. However, what you mention is a good indication and of course looking around steam gifts for similar giveaways is a good indicator too. Cheerios~ :D
Comment has been collapsed.
It is true people will enter GAs that they don't have wishlisted.
I know I personally am more likely to check out non-wishlist games & GAs if I'm sitting on 400P or more.
I'm the opposite of you - I tend to include almost all games I enter GAs for, and it helps me with acquiring games outside of SG.
Comment has been collapsed.
I used to have over 1K games listed on the wishlist. A friend commented that seeing the wishlist and notification of games being wishlisted in activities is rather overwhelming. I was pretty new to steam, I just wishlisted what I found interesting. Now I sort them by Wishlist - Potential buys / Follow - Update on Interest, Elevate to Wishlist? / Browser Bookmarks - Games I find interesting, older games or bad review games but very low priority in buying. That helped alot and I am please to keep it at around 300+ games. :D
Comment has been collapsed.
That is why I don't enable Steam notifications regarding Wishlist sales & such, and have ITAD sync with my wishlist. That way, I can have more control over notifications regarding sales & bundles of games I want, such only getting a notification if there's a new historic low or something.
Comment has been collapsed.
I try to minimize the use of additional add-ons. i actually have an excel sheet that I keep check of the Steam prices. After close to 2yrs of checking, Majority of the best discount is during Winter Sale. Rarely during the game's birthday, the price will be the lowest. Since most of the time I am buying bundles now, individual pricing is kind of void for me. The wishlist is just to keep check of the games I am interested in. Regards~
Comment has been collapsed.
In case the gifter warns people in advance that GA will be deleted in case of less than 5 entries I think it's ok.
Comment has been collapsed.
How often do gifters do that though? I think I have seen it less than 5 times out of my 2000 entries in 3 months thus far.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't know. But i participated in such GA-s and when I wanted to give away a game I had where it mattered that it would count towards my CV I also used the same method. When the CV did not matter I simply let it go whether I had 5 entrants or not.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm on the fence about it, I mean it's a free game so it's hard to complain if the gifter change his mind but at the same time when I join a group I'm fully aware of how many users are in the group so it should be something to consider before joining a group if they require group exclusive giveaway, also CV is overated IMO giving a game to someone who'll enjoy it should be a reward in itself but I also do understand wanting to level up.
Comment has been collapsed.
SG refunds points that you spend to enter giveaway in this case, so I guess it's not a big deal. I was really frustrated when I lost points because of that, but now I don't really care. I never did it myself though.
Comment has been collapsed.
Is the existing penalty
imo that's not a penalty, it's more about the freedom that SG grants to his users. so, fair enough for me.
Comment has been collapsed.
Its a penalty in that it takes something away from the gifter's abilities. Obviously this has less or practically no impact to users who have submitted many GAs.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's a bit unfair to the participant(s) but to be honest, it's not wrong to have the ability to delete gibs before they end, and this happens also for many other reasons than missing entries for CV.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'd delete all groups under 50 or even 100 members as a penalty to be honest. :D
Comment has been collapsed.
I would raise the minimal value for CV increase to 10-20 participants... The site is full with CV farming groups, they farm the CV to swarm the occasional Lvl 5+ giveaways
Comment has been collapsed.
It was originally 10 when we switched to SGv2.0, but cg backed off to 5 when all the CV farmers cried about it.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you enter a non-public GA and are the only entry or one of <4 entries for that GA, but that GA gets deleted before it ends, and then that same GA gets re-created elsewhere, how would you react?
If someone posts a non-public GA and it gets any number of entries, the gifter can delete it anytime before the GA ends. Why would someone do this? Gifter can repost it publicly or to a bigger audience to ensure they get 5+ entries required to get the GA's CV to count toward their sent total.
I have never seen a group with a rule against this practice, nor does SG have any guidelines against it, and did not find any prior forum topics about this. So I wanted to get other peoples' opinion on the practice.
This post is intended as a discussion starter & a mere observation. It is NOT a complaint to SG or group admins, as any concerns should be addressed directly with them.
My opinion is: At best I think the practice is a misleading use of the selectable reasons for deleting a GA, and at worst it is a manipulation of groups or the site into maximizing sent CV at the detriment to people who may enter.
EDIT: Is the existing penalty of subtracting one from the number of giveaway slots a sufficient penalty?
EDIT 2: If neither of the main poll options fit your view, feel free to vote "I don't care"
Comment has been collapsed.